![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 72. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ToddfromPhoenix on August 14, 2000, at 21:59:03
To my great dismay, I have unsuccessfully failed on three occasions to put my misery to an end. I seem to be destined to serve out my penance regardless of how many pills I take to enter darkness. I am so angry at this failure, I can hardly stand it. My only wish is that we kept firearms at home, not as likely to fail next time.
I know I told you all that I wouldn't be back. I am sorry that the three episodes since July haven't worked. Effexor is non-effective garbage and this Serzone is worse. I am sitting in my jail cell known commonly as a cubicle at work and I can't even concentrate. Driving is impossible. Working is impossible. Why are all these hot shot "psych" doctors interested in playing some demented God and giving medicine that is totally ineffective??? I am sooooooo glad I decided to quit medical school when I did. I couldn't bear to practice the "art form" called medicine and screw constantly with people's minds. And the doc's have all the right answers, take the red pill to help with side effects of the blue pill. Take the green pill to help the side effects of the red pill (and so on). What the hell is going on here? Do I take the pills to live or do I live to take the pills??
I hate medicine. I hate those who think life's ills are about finding the little pills to make life better. They are myopic and truly wear blinders. For those who have read what I have said and thought I screwed with the "geniouses" from med school and the pills they have described.....WRONG! I absolutely hate what is going on here with me. I hate what is going on with you. Some of you have been duped into believing that pills are the "answer" to life's problems. Sorry, can't be. Just like they used to believe that using electricity to shock the body and cure everything from STD's to old age, I feel that if I am tortured to live in five to ten years, they will say, those poor people. They were foolish enough to take the advice from people of good intention, but no understanding of what truly was helpful. I know this site is intended to help people, but is it really? To me, it would seem surprising if drug company money wasn't used to finance this site and try to keep the customers clamoring for more. With a society that is so advanced and billions in research, why can doctors not provide a real "chemical correction" to brain chemistry rather than sending these little pills of Drano into our system? I can go to a medical doctor, get a checkup, draw my blood and find a deficiency in its makeup and correct it. Why can't something like that be done for the mind? Sounds like it isn't in the drug company's best interest.
Some may consider this to be a neurotic, angry rant. Well folks, I'm not Dennis Miller and I am not a mad man. I just think that we should rise above the need for chemical intradiction and deal with life. Some might think I am nuts, a lunatic. If I am, truly I deserve the lead pill I seek desperately.
Posted by JohnL on August 15, 2000, at 5:23:15
In reply to This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by ToddfromPhoenix on August 14, 2000, at 21:59:03
With a society that is so advanced and billions in research, why can doctors not provide a real "chemical correction" to brain chemistry rather than sending these little pills of Drano into our system? I can go to a medical doctor, get a checkup, draw my blood and find a deficiency in its makeup and correct it. Why can't something like that be done for the mind?
Actually it can. But not the way MOST doctors are currently trained. There is however a way to pinpoint the chemical correction needed.
And it does involve pills. The pills--the RIGHT pills--provide exactly the "chemical correction" you mentioned. I understand and agree with you though, that pills alone aren't the complete answer. Healthy foods, healthy activities, counseling, religious convictions, morality...all of these things are important. Ignoranace of any one of them will cause either a physical or a mental deterioration, or both.
Chemical correction is something that exists today, right here and now. Unfortunately most medical professionals are not trained in a way as to quickly pinpoint it. Instead they try to match a supposed diagnosis with a supposed appropriate medication for that supposed diagnosis. In my opinion, that is all wrong. But of course, that's kind of like Columbus saying the earth isn't flat. Teachings and beliefs are so well entrenched that many things in psychiatry are taken as fact. But they aren't facts. There are other ways. Faster ways. More accurate ways. Chemical correction can be accomplished in days or weeks. Not months or years. FYI
John
Posted by Cindy W on August 15, 2000, at 9:45:14
In reply to Re: Counterpoint, posted by JohnL on August 15, 2000, at 5:23:15
> With a society that is so advanced and billions in research, why can doctors not provide a real "chemical correction" to brain chemistry rather than sending these little pills of Drano into our system? I can go to a medical doctor, get a checkup, draw my blood and find a deficiency in its makeup and correct it. Why can't something like that be done for the mind?
>
> Actually it can. But not the way MOST doctors are currently trained. There is however a way to pinpoint the chemical correction needed.
>
> And it does involve pills. The pills--the RIGHT pills--provide exactly the "chemical correction" you mentioned. I understand and agree with you though, that pills alone aren't the complete answer. Healthy foods, healthy activities, counseling, religious convictions, morality...all of these things are important. Ignoranace of any one of them will cause either a physical or a mental deterioration, or both.
>
> Chemical correction is something that exists today, right here and now. Unfortunately most medical professionals are not trained in a way as to quickly pinpoint it. Instead they try to match a supposed diagnosis with a supposed appropriate medication for that supposed diagnosis. In my opinion, that is all wrong. But of course, that's kind of like Columbus saying the earth isn't flat. Teachings and beliefs are so well entrenched that many things in psychiatry are taken as fact. But they aren't facts. There are other ways. Faster ways. More accurate ways. Chemical correction can be accomplished in days or weeks. Not months or years. FYI
> JohnToddfromPhoenix, Sorry to hear you're having a really hard time. It's very frustrating, while you try to get on the right medication to improve things (I've been there, done that! and am not sure I'm where I need to be, yet, with meds.) Hope you are also in psychotherapy with a caring therapist; that is what's needed, besides just medication. There is no substitute for human caring, although chemical correction of neurotransmitters can certainly help you benefit from talk therapy by helping you be more receptive to changing your life. I know that my pdoc has helped a lot, just listening and caring and giving me things to think about. Hugs--CindyW
Posted by dove on August 15, 2000, at 17:20:48
In reply to This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by ToddfromPhoenix on August 14, 2000, at 21:59:03
>
> I know I told you all that I wouldn't be back. I am sorry that the three episodes since July haven't worked. Effexor is non-effective garbage and this Serzone is worse.***Well first, my heart goes out to you, I've experienced first hand the (dare I call it?) shame of remaining in the land of the living after my own personal ultimatum. I know I shouldn't feel shame, but there it is anyway. Secondly, you discuss the utter failure of the meds you've tried, I would counter that with a question. Which meds have you tried altogether? Lots of combo's? Now on to the next part:
>
>Why are all these hot shot "psych" doctors interested in playing some demented God and giving medicine that is totally ineffective??? What the hell is going on here? Do I take the pills to live or do I live to take the pills??***I understand your anger, unfortunately, that is how medicine is practised, and not just psyche either. Remember how intricate the body is, and then the *mind*, we're talking heavy stuff here, no mortal has all the answers, if they did, there would be a fountain of youth hidden inside some Uni Hospital. Taking the pills to live or living to take the pills is not the whole picture. The latter points to addiction, and the first points to desperation, either of these options is a hard and difficult place to find yourself in. So, understandably, you're feeling heavy and dark, any of us would (and often do). Maybe it is time to do without, and try to gain a clearer vantage point.
***But you're also giving up therapy, which has nothing to do with the pills? There are so many variations of practitioners, and having someone to actually talk to can really help, especially if there isn't anyone there to listen to you.
>
> I hate medicine. I hate those who think life's ills are about finding the little pills to make life better. They are myopic and truly wear blinders. Some of you have been duped into believing that pills are the "answer" to life's problems.***I won't label your conclusions as wrong, because they may be perfectly on target for you. But... My life is the reverse. I was not allowed to receive treatment even as a child, even in the face of blatant inherited manic-depression. My parents insisted that no pill could ever fix me, and maybe they were right, but a pill could have helped me, prevented how many attempts to end my life, cut short some seriously destructive behavior. Even as an adult, trying to convince my doctors that my migraines were not part of my depression, or the reason I was crying was not because I had PMS. I have legitimate respect for doc's who listen to their patients, allow them to go in directions less traveled, who are willing to stick their neck out for me.
***And I don't think one person on this board, not one, believes that "pills are the *answer*". We know the party-line, the SSRI hype, the ugly side of the pharmaceutical industry, the absurdity of trying to convince a p-doc of what we're actually feeling and experiencing. That *IS* what this board is about, not meds and pills, not arguing about the righteousness of pills versus therapy, or both versus nothing at all, or everything versus social activism. We are for each other, the board is the medium on which to put to practice the whole idea of "Am I my brother's keeper". This is a community, which is why, when an outsider attacks one of our own it ruffles feathers. Or why when one of us takes that frightening step to leave this world, it feels like a slap in the face. We do care, even when you don't care about yourself.
>
>I know this site is intended to help people, but is it really? To me, it would seem surprising if drug company money wasn't used to finance this site and try to keep the customers clamoring for more.***You're forgetting that docs make more money when depression isn't treated with meds. Therapy results in big monetary costs, and the actual cost of untreated depression is considerably higher than when it's caught and dealt with. This site is so far removed from drug company propaganda, this site is about the different paths taken, support for those different paths, and respect for the people traveling them.
***When we preach (or spread our thoughts), as you might interpret my post, we scatters seeds, they may hit arid ground, fertile ground, or even poisoned ground, but every location will support some amount of life. The arid ground may only sprout 15% of those seeds, compared to the fertile where 95% of those seeds emerge from the earth, while the poisoned ground only sprouts 1% or less.
***What I am saying/writing may fall on hardened ground, damaged ground, "deaf ears" as they say, but maybe just a wisp will filter through, and you will know that we are here and listening. You may reject any empathy, which is far removed from pity, and you may get angry, but nothing you do, or say can, or will change what I'm trying to say to you at this moment. I am sorry that you haven't found support at this board, and I'm sorry that you view us all in such an acrid light. My thoughts are with you.
dove
Posted by SarahB on August 16, 2000, at 1:17:09
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by dove on August 15, 2000, at 17:20:48
Very nicely said, Dove... I have nothing to add...(for once) :-)
Sarah
Posted by toddfromphoenix on August 16, 2000, at 2:50:08
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks! » dove, posted by SarahB on August 16, 2000, at 1:17:09
Though many send kind words, I can do nothing but say I totally disagree with our television audience.
I must tell you all that I had a real fun evening last night. You see, I was discontinuing Effexor XR because of side effects as prescribed by my "god-like" psych doctor. I have been in a start up mode with start kit of Serzone. I upped my dosage to 100mg twice a day 5 days ago. Horrible side effects. Extreme dizziness, pupils the size of pin heads, inability to concentrate. And my all time favorite.... Irritability.
Yesterday, being Monday, I called God and told him about my problem and that I thought this was becoming pretty serious. "No problem," said God, "we'll just cut your morning dose in half and keep your night dose the same". "But God, I am a mess, my chest pounds, the dizziness, the pupils, the inability to concentrate." "Trust me", said God.
It was really enjoyable to spend 4 1/2 hours at the emergency room last night. I am in such a habit of doing so. I'm a regular there, why just 5 years ago, I came in the most recent time because of kidney stones..... Funny, the ER doc says discontinue the medicine, the pharmacist says to discontinue the medicine. But God, almighty says no, "trust me".
This morning I called to talk with God. Of course since I wasn't there in person to be a billable hour for him, God was rushed and didn't have time for me. When he finally did manage, God apparently was able to see me through the telephone because God didn't ask how I felt or if I was better. No, God did some major backpedaling. He didn't know about the FDA approval study where 16% of patients in the trial, about 70 of 5340 quit because of SIDE EFFECT issues, but more importantly God said he knew better since he had in house clinical experience with the medication with patients. Wow, he truly is God.
I informed God during at the end of our little conversation he allowed me to have with him that his services would no longer be needed. You see, I shopped and found another, let's just call him Jesus Christ or JC for short. I see JC tomorrow and look with great anticipation for him to peer into his crystal ball and find the magic pill(s) for me to take. My only regret is that God said he knows and has worked with JC. What a bummer. God truly does work in mysterious ways.
Hey Dr. Bob, you must know God, he swears his way is the way of the future for psychiatry. With a future this bright, I will bring my own flashlight.
Posted by JohnL on August 16, 2000, at 5:38:58
In reply to This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by toddfromphoenix on August 16, 2000, at 2:50:08
My my, things are pretty bad. You know, on one hand your post is full of skepticism, anger, failed faith, and frustration. On the other, I know exactly where you're coming from because I've been there. I have indeed felt EXACTLY the way your post suggests. All of it. Everything. Exactly. All I can say is it was a nightmare. Key word...'WAS'. I know it's impossible to fathom right now, but these hard times will resolve.
My gut instinct was to critisize your almost abrasive anger at everything. But I can't do that, because like I said, I've been there. I know exactly where you're coming from. Instead I'm feeling very concerned for you, and wish I could help.
You know what I did when I was realized I had no respect for my pdoc? I pulled out the yellow pages and got a new one. Though I did some research on them with phone calls, inquiries, and stuff, I have to admit flipping a coin might have been just as good. Considering how you feel about your pdoc, I would suggest getting a new one. Any one.
As to the Serzone, the early reactions you've had are not promising. I've had my fair share of experience with Serzone. Though some people do get through the early side effects that you mention, and end up feeling wonderful, in most cases Serzone will continue to be disappointing if it starts out that way. To me your early reactions to Serzone simply and logically indicate that it is one of two things: 1)Not an agreeable molecule to your body, 2)Not working on the chemistry that needs working on.
Flash forward a moment...I am currently doing very well. The meds I'm taking are in miniscule doses. In my understanding of things, the closer a med is to working on the correct chemistry, the lower the dose needed and the fewer side effects. The farther away a med is from the real problem, the larger the dose needed, and more side effects, and it will take a lot longer to work through a trickle down chain reaction (if it ever works at all). Currently...7.5mg Remeron (half the minimum dose), 300mg Adrafinil (25% of max), and 200mg SAMe (15% of max), and 25mg Amisulpride (barely even registers on the scale). Whatever these things are doing, they are doing it right. They are targeting the problems head on. No chain reaction trickle down waiting kind of stuff. And no side effects.
But how did I get to this point? Ironically, it started when I felt exactly like you do right now. It was that frustration that made me take things into my own hands. I didn't need a pdoc to make me feel more lousy. I could do that fine all by myself! For free! My frustration led me to natural alternatives (SJW, ginkgo, ginsengs, SAMe, etc) and overseas (Adrafinil, Amisulpride, Moclobemide, Reboxetine).
I'm not suggesting you take the same path. I am suggesting that the status quo in your treatment right now is failing. Something has to change. The pdoc is a good place to start. Serzone doesn't sound right either. Doing some online research and taking control could be a good thing. Get out of the passenger seat and take over the wheel.
For ideas other than my own, check out Dr Bob's 'Tips' section. Also, a definite eye opener, go to www.drjensen.com. If you don't like pdocs, you'll love this one! He's everything most pdocs aren't.
John
Posted by Kath on August 16, 2000, at 10:22:06
In reply to This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by toddfromphoenix on August 16, 2000, at 2:50:08
Hi Todd - Hope JC is better than God!
My toughts are with you.
Kath
> Though many send kind words, I can do nothing but say I totally disagree with our television audience.
>
> I must tell you all that I had a real fun evening last night. You see, I was discontinuing Effexor XR because of side effects as prescribed by my "god-like" psych doctor. I have been in a start up mode with start kit of Serzone. I upped my dosage to 100mg twice a day 5 days ago. Horrible side effects. Extreme dizziness, pupils the size of pin heads, inability to concentrate. And my all time favorite.... Irritability.
>
> Yesterday, being Monday, I called God and told him about my problem and that I thought this was becoming pretty serious. "No problem," said God, "we'll just cut your morning dose in half and keep your night dose the same". "But God, I am a mess, my chest pounds, the dizziness, the pupils, the inability to concentrate." "Trust me", said God.
>
> It was really enjoyable to spend 4 1/2 hours at the emergency room last night. I am in such a habit of doing so. I'm a regular there, why just 5 years ago, I came in the most recent time because of kidney stones..... Funny, the ER doc says discontinue the medicine, the pharmacist says to discontinue the medicine. But God, almighty says no, "trust me".
>
> This morning I called to talk with God. Of course since I wasn't there in person to be a billable hour for him, God was rushed and didn't have time for me. When he finally did manage, God apparently was able to see me through the telephone because God didn't ask how I felt or if I was better. No, God did some major backpedaling. He didn't know about the FDA approval study where 16% of patients in the trial, about 70 of 5340 quit because of SIDE EFFECT issues, but more importantly God said he knew better since he had in house clinical experience with the medication with patients. Wow, he truly is God.
>
> I informed God during at the end of our little conversation he allowed me to have with him that his services would no longer be needed. You see, I shopped and found another, let's just call him Jesus Christ or JC for short. I see JC tomorrow and look with great anticipation for him to peer into his crystal ball and find the magic pill(s) for me to take. My only regret is that God said he knows and has worked with JC. What a bummer. God truly does work in mysterious ways.
>
> Hey Dr. Bob, you must know God, he swears his way is the way of the future for psychiatry. With a future this bright, I will bring my own flashlight.
Posted by dove on August 16, 2000, at 11:01:00
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks! » toddfromphoenix, posted by Kath on August 16, 2000, at 10:22:06
Gotta agree with you in regard to the Serzone. You know your inner-workings better than anyone else. I do take Serzone, but in combo with other meds, all of which present no magic panacea. I may have more emotional control, but I still process the same, my mind still wraps around things and bends them into ugly designs. The meds don't take me away from me, though I often wish they would. Sometimes, the meds do worse than taking me away, they silence me, they poison me, and make me feel powerless.
There are chemicals that will create more problems than they solve, and there are chemicals that will numb you, aggravate, sicken, and enhance. There are therapists who will listen, will advise with wisdom, will support your attempts to go the path without meds. There are P-docs who will patronize, ignore, silence, impose, intimidate, and listen, whether on the phone or in the office, will respect your decisions and concerns.
But... Just as there are egotistical, nasty people all over this globe we call Earth, so will you find them practising medicine, handing out political flyers, and delivering your mail. To be angry is to say "I don't like this situation, and I want it to change!" More power to you!!!
dove
Posted by JaneST on August 16, 2000, at 12:18:42
In reply to This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by toddfromphoenix on August 16, 2000, at 2:50:08
> Though many send kind words, I can do nothing but say I totally disagree with our television audience.
>
> I must tell you all that I had a real fun evening last night. You see, I was discontinuing Effexor XR because of side effects as prescribed by my "god-like" psych doctor. I have been in a start up mode with start kit of Serzone. I upped my dosage to 100mg twice a day 5 days ago. Horrible side effects. Extreme dizziness, pupils the size of pin heads, inability to concentrate. And my all time favorite.... Irritability.
>
> Yesterday, being Monday, I called God and told him about my problem and that I thought this was becoming pretty serious. "No problem," said God, "we'll just cut your morning dose in half and keep your night dose the same". "But God, I am a mess, my chest pounds, the dizziness, the pupils, the inability to concentrate." "Trust me", said God.
>
> It was really enjoyable to spend 4 1/2 hours at the emergency room last night. I am in such a habit of doing so. I'm a regular there, why just 5 years ago, I came in the most recent time because of kidney stones..... Funny, the ER doc says discontinue the medicine, the pharmacist says to discontinue the medicine. But God, almighty says no, "trust me".
>
> This morning I called to talk with God. Of course since I wasn't there in person to be a billable hour for him, God was rushed and didn't have time for me. When he finally did manage, God apparently was able to see me through the telephone because God didn't ask how I felt or if I was better. No, God did some major backpedaling. He didn't know about the FDA approval study where 16% of patients in the trial, about 70 of 5340 quit because of SIDE EFFECT issues, but more importantly God said he knew better since he had in house clinical experience with the medication with patients. Wow, he truly is God.
>
> I informed God during at the end of our little conversation he allowed me to have with him that his services would no longer be needed. You see, I shopped and found another, let's just call him Jesus Christ or JC for short. I see JC tomorrow and look with great anticipation for him to peer into his crystal ball and find the magic pill(s) for me to take. My only regret is that God said he knows and has worked with JC. What a bummer. God truly does work in mysterious ways.
>
> Hey Dr. Bob, you must know God, he swears his way is the way of the future for psychiatry. With a future this bright, I will bring my own flashlight.
Todd:With personal experience in the ways of trials and errors and side effects...and with your current horrible experience seemingly behind you, have you ever shown your flashlight into the areas of writing for a living???
Sorry you had to go through this, but I thoroughly enjoyed reading about it.
Just to let you know...
Jane
Posted by TomV on August 16, 2000, at 15:29:24
In reply to This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by toddfromphoenix on August 16, 2000, at 2:50:08
> Though many send kind words, I can do nothing but say I totally disagree with our television audience.
>
> I must tell you all that I had a real fun evening last night. You see, I was discontinuing Effexor XR because of side effects as prescribed by my "god-like" psych doctor. I have been in a start up mode with start kit of Serzone. I upped my dosage to 100mg twice a day 5 days ago. Horrible side effects. Extreme dizziness, pupils the size of pin heads, inability to concentrate. And my all time favorite.... Irritability.
>
> Yesterday, being Monday, I called God and told him about my problem and that I thought this was becoming pretty serious. "No problem," said God, "we'll just cut your morning dose in half and keep your night dose the same". "But God, I am a mess, my chest pounds, the dizziness, the pupils, the inability to concentrate." "Trust me", said God.
>
> It was really enjoyable to spend 4 1/2 hours at the emergency room last night. I am in such a habit of doing so. I'm a regular there, why just 5 years ago, I came in the most recent time because of kidney stones..... Funny, the ER doc says discontinue the medicine, the pharmacist says to discontinue the medicine. But God, almighty says no, "trust me".
>
> This morning I called to talk with God. Of course since I wasn't there in person to be a billable hour for him, God was rushed and didn't have time for me. When he finally did manage, God apparently was able to see me through the telephone because God didn't ask how I felt or if I was better. No, God did some major backpedaling. He didn't know about the FDA approval study where 16% of patients in the trial, about 70 of 5340 quit because of SIDE EFFECT issues, but more importantly God said he knew better since he had in house clinical experience with the medication with patients. Wow, he truly is God.
>
> I informed God during at the end of our little conversation he allowed me to have with him that his services would no longer be needed. You see, I shopped and found another, let's just call him Jesus Christ or JC for short. I see JC tomorrow and look with great anticipation for him to peer into his crystal ball and find the magic pill(s) for me to take. My only regret is that God said he knows and has worked with JC. What a bummer. God truly does work in mysterious ways.
>
> Hey Dr. Bob, you must know God, he swears his way is the way of the future for psychiatry. With a future this bright, I will bring my own flashlight.Todd,
I know you are seriously suffering right now, but I want you to know that your posting was so funny I laughed out really loud more than a few times! Let's just say that you relieved my suffering for a few minutes, anyway.
Keep the posts coming. I know exactly how you feel. I've been given the "oh, that doesn't happen with Prozac" etc. mantra from a few PDocs. I just couldn't summarize how I felt on those phone calls until you posted your satire. You summarized it all succinctly.
Here's hoping you find your true self.
TomV
Posted by tdaneen on August 16, 2000, at 15:39:33
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks! » toddfromphoenix, posted by JaneST on August 16, 2000, at 12:18:42
You are right Todd, it DOES suck! But you know, I do so enjoy your dark humor, but think I can imagine a wry gleem in your eyes.
Don't let that go out. You have a gift to share - You have insight and a brilliant way to deliver it. I wish it wasn't so rough for you.
...Maybe good 'ole JC has a posse that hangs out once a week or so looking for another "believer" ;-)
Just kidding!
Wishing you the best, calm thoughts (easy side effects)
tdaneen
Posted by toddfromPhoenix on August 16, 2000, at 21:48:18
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its best!, posted by TomV on August 16, 2000, at 15:29:24
Now, I don't want to get off on a rant....but
I sat down with Jesus Christ today (for simplicity sake, let's stick to 'JC'). Most of you Christians will be shocked. He doesn't look like what I had pictured in the Bible. Nope, JC is Indian. Going to require some serious editing of the Bible and will most likely drive Pat Robertson over the edge.
JC appeared actually to have at least a human in his lineage. If I were to describe him in water temperature terms, I would say "above freezing". A stretch from God who had all the personality and warmth as the Ice Planet Hoth. That withstanding, he asked me the general questions and seemed concerned, which is a nice change from God (Oops, I wrote that, God will probably know since he can read my mind). Oh well, I'm screwed : (.
What can I say, JC decided that it was best for me to jump into a new mix of medication. This time, I am thrusting knee deep into a Paxil/Klonopin cocktail. Joy! Just what I wanted. A mixture of medicine to cloud my life. Wonderful. He also informed me that my pinhole sized eyes, which have been with me since my last dose 3 days ago, might return. Super dee duper!! I love it. We're going for the gold here. I can't wait to quit this shit next.
JC seemed to be a bit concerned about my recent "best friend" and the newness of my recent failure. I found her in a local store and she truly is a beaut. Guaranteed not to be as much of a failure as the pills have been. My wife will love it when I tell her about it. Don't worry honey, when I blow my brains out, I'll make sure I do it outside so it won't get on the carpet. Such the sensitive and caring hubby.
And so my friends, will he or won't he? Has he finally mustered up the courage or is he gutless again? Tune in next time, same bat time, same bat channel.
Posted by TomV on August 17, 2000, at 8:36:42
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its best!, posted by toddfromPhoenix on August 16, 2000, at 21:48:18
> Now, I don't want to get off on a rant....but
>
> I sat down with Jesus Christ today (for simplicity sake, let's stick to 'JC'). Most of you Christians will be shocked. He doesn't look like what I had pictured in the Bible. Nope, JC is Indian. Going to require some serious editing of the Bible and will most likely drive Pat Robertson over the edge.
>
> JC appeared actually to have at least a human in his lineage. If I were to describe him in water temperature terms, I would say "above freezing". A stretch from God who had all the personality and warmth as the Ice Planet Hoth. That withstanding, he asked me the general questions and seemed concerned, which is a nice change from God (Oops, I wrote that, God will probably know since he can read my mind). Oh well, I'm screwed : (.
>
> What can I say, JC decided that it was best for me to jump into a new mix of medication. This time, I am thrusting knee deep into a Paxil/Klonopin cocktail. Joy! Just what I wanted. A mixture of medicine to cloud my life. Wonderful. He also informed me that my pinhole sized eyes, which have been with me since my last dose 3 days ago, might return. Super dee duper!! I love it. We're going for the gold here. I can't wait to quit this shit next.
>
> JC seemed to be a bit concerned about my recent "best friend" and the newness of my recent failure. I found her in a local store and she truly is a beaut. Guaranteed not to be as much of a failure as the pills have been. My wife will love it when I tell her about it. Don't worry honey, when I blow my brains out, I'll make sure I do it outside so it won't get on the carpet. Such the sensitive and caring hubby.
>
> And so my friends, will he or won't he? Has he finally mustered up the courage or is he gutless again? Tune in next time, same bat time, same bat channel.Todd,
Are you kidding? I hope you are kidding. It can't be that bad, can it? I know your comical side hasn't given up hope yet, has it? Maybe you should scrap the meds for a little while and find a safe place (can't really say where that is, but think back to your childhood, there must be some place that gives you fond memories). Think about that kid as you sit in your safest place. You wouldn't dare hurt that child, would you? Maybe call an old, dear friend to come along. Drastic situations call for drastic measures.
And about your meds. I have a totally cynical view toward medication also. But unlike you, I threw them aside and said " Depression is my companion for the time being", and lived with the pain for a while. Maybe you can ride it out, maybe you can't. But it sounds like something you can handle or cope with instead of these #$%@$# meds you can't really stand to take. (By the way, I still held on to my xanax when I dropped other meds; at least it "numbed" the pain).
Stick around for the last scene of your life. The finale usually is the best part.
TomV
Posted by tdaneen on August 17, 2000, at 10:31:10
In reply to This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by ToddfromPhoenix on August 14, 2000, at 21:59:03
Todd, I just went back to the first time you posted. It was a calm well thought well written post, it seems so different from how you are feeling now. You brought up the fact that you had been on Prozac for eight years and that it had worked well for you. You also said that you were tired of relying on the meds and wanted to go med free. Have you thought about going back on Prozac? If it had worked so well for you for all that time?
I feel such anger and bitterness in your posts. Who is that directed towards? I don't believe it is towards yourself. Who is it you are wanting to hurt?
Don't you know, that even though these people have never even seen you, or met you, they DO in fact CARE about you? Many of these folks here have may have been in similar scrapes. Keep posting, keep reaching out, keep LASHING OUT if that is what it takes to keep you here.BTW: I'll bet you've never even walked out on a movie you've paid for, have you? Why start now?
I know I've overstepped what I should say, but you've #$^$ me off, darn it! Please open your eyes. Please reach out to those around you that love you. Please continue to get support and help, Please don't treat hurting yourself like a joke.
Tdaneen
Posted by JaneST on August 17, 2000, at 13:38:15
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its best!, posted by toddfromPhoenix on August 16, 2000, at 21:48:18
> Now, I don't want to get off on a rant....but
>
> I sat down with Jesus Christ today (for simplicity sake, let's stick to 'JC'). Most of you Christians will be shocked. He doesn't look like what I had pictured in the Bible. Nope, JC is Indian. Going to require some serious editing of the Bible and will most likely drive Pat Robertson over the edge.
>
> JC appeared actually to have at least a human in his lineage. If I were to describe him in water temperature terms, I would say "above freezing". A stretch from God who had all the personality and warmth as the Ice Planet Hoth. That withstanding, he asked me the general questions and seemed concerned, which is a nice change from God (Oops, I wrote that, God will probably know since he can read my mind). Oh well, I'm screwed : (.
>
> What can I say, JC decided that it was best for me to jump into a new mix of medication. This time, I am thrusting knee deep into a Paxil/Klonopin cocktail. Joy! Just what I wanted. A mixture of medicine to cloud my life. Wonderful. He also informed me that my pinhole sized eyes, which have been with me since my last dose 3 days ago, might return. Super dee duper!! I love it. We're going for the gold here. I can't wait to quit this shit next.
>
> JC seemed to be a bit concerned about my recent "best friend" and the newness of my recent failure. I found her in a local store and she truly is a beaut. Guaranteed not to be as much of a failure as the pills have been. My wife will love it when I tell her about it. Don't worry honey, when I blow my brains out, I'll make sure I do it outside so it won't get on the carpet. Such the sensitive and caring hubby.
>
> And so my friends, will he or won't he? Has he finally mustered up the courage or is he gutless again? Tune in next time, same bat time, same bat channel.
Todd:What, and give up your new career as a writer??? You've gone too far with this one, bud, and it's just not funny. Don't you dare leave us hanging...I want to hear all of those unfinished chapters....
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I've been through this enough to know that it doesn't have to be this way...but in my view, tired though we may be, it takes a lot more courage to take one more step on the road to recovery than to just end it all...which is really one of the most selfish acts in the world, all good-hubby-considerations aside. You didn't mention (or I just don't know...do you have children???)
How dare you leave us to fight this all by ourselves. You've helped me in prior posts more than you know.
Let us hear from you! It matters/YOU matter...and I'm tuned in and waiting.........
Love,
Jane
Posted by toddfromPhoenix on August 17, 2000, at 16:25:18
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its worst! » toddfromPhoenix, posted by JaneST on August 17, 2000, at 13:38:15
Pooof! Let's just call this a cliff hanger... I suppose if I continue to post that means I am still here or have taken the role of Casper on a permanent basis.
Tension is just killing me. Just like guessing who the last Survivor will be (even though I have never seen the show).
Later
Posted by JaneST on August 17, 2000, at 16:39:19
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its worst!, posted by toddfromPhoenix on August 17, 2000, at 16:25:18
> Pooof! Let's just call this a cliff hanger... I suppose if I continue to post that means I am still here or have taken the role of Casper on a permanent basis.
>
> Tension is just killing me. Just like guessing who the last Survivor will be (even though I have never seen the show).
>
> LaterTodd:
Ok, but Big Brother is watching....
Best always,
Jane
Posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 9:38:43
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its worst! » toddfromPhoenix, posted by JaneST on August 17, 2000, at 16:39:19
Hey,
I've been where u are, and i must say, that i still regret that my suicide was tampered with.As far as i'm concerned you have the right to stop the pain in anyway you see fit.
If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. However, the following might be helpful: xxx
This having been said, I truly hope that you find another way of dealing with your pain. My lover and my sister both took their own lives. I know how much pain they were in, and i respect their decision, but i do miss them very much.
all the best to you,
john
Posted by Rainwoman on September 28, 2000, at 14:25:47
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 9:38:43
> Hey,
> I've been where u are, and i must say, that i still regret that my suicide was tampered with.
>
> As far as i'm concerned you have the right to stop the pain in anyway you see fit.
>
> If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. ...
>
> This having been said, I truly hope that you find another way of dealing with your pain. My lover and my sister both took their own lives. I know how much pain they were in, and i respect their decision, but i do miss them very much.
>
> all the best to you,
> johnI agree with both John and Todd. Everybody's pain is different, and who is to say how you should deal with it. I can see how it is alarming to some to discuss your own demise, especially for someone who has never suffered from depression before, let alone major depression. Lucky for those of you, you still have your survival instinct intact. Mine must've ran out of me with all the tears I have cried over the years. I know all too well nowadays what it feels like to have no hope. If you are already dead on the inside, why continue to suffer and consequently have those around you suffer? And before anybody brings up therapy, I have a very kind therapist whom I actually kind of like. He does try to make me feel better. He thinks that I just need to change my thinking. That if I improve my self esteem and recognize that I am talented, smart, witty(not as witty as Todd though), intelligent and have alot to offer, I will be happy. Sorry, but as dear as he is, he could say all those things to me until his tongue fell off. I can't FEEL any of those things. How can you when pain and sadness just consumes you and hurts so much sometimes that it hurts to breathe. I tried thinking his way, but I am so sick and tired of keeping up that farse. People, in my miserable little mind, can't understand what a person feels until you walk a mile in their shoes. Even then, you're just a mile away and you've got some poor bastards' shoes. My favorite thing is when he says, "Now I want you to promise me, you won't do anything to harm yourself, promise??" Okey, dokey doc, cross my heart, hope to die (oops, you already know that part...). The second favorite thing is, you can call me anytime to talk....yeah to your answering machine. I called that answering machine at 4:00am this morning to say I was having a very hard time and was really down (I didn't mention the fact that I had a "good friend" next to me myself. Only I throw up at the sight of blood. I would end up throwing up stuff I ate last week. That could make for a real long and messy ending. I don't have the courage for that, I didn't much care for half of what I ate last week. It's a good thing too, cause, call me demure, but I don't think that leaving a "I'm contemplating a slash and splash party and you're invited" is proper answering machine etiquette regardless of the hour.). I did hear from him at about 2:00 pm today. I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to hear those kind of party plans at 4:00am either. Ah, too many psychos, too little time.
I am supposed to have an appt. with a p-doc next week, but I have done the med treads myself already, and just thinking about being let down again adds a new, not so colorful dimension to my ever present dismay. The only thing I fear, is that wherever you go from here is worse than here, if that could be possible. Another night like last night, and I may not have to wonder.
I have no "safe" place in my childhood. Unless you might consider under the bed. But I lie awake in agony on top of the damn thing, I don't think climbing under it with the dust bunnies is going to bring me any hoorahs. Although it works for my cats.
Anyway, enough of my rambling I just wanted to say I can empathize with what you are saying, and I hope things turn out for the better for everyone than they are for me. And, Todd, I like your dry sense of humor. You probably could write a book. I wouldn't want you to end up a "ghost" writer though! Sorry, poor pun. But, I think if you feel that way and it makes you feel even a little better to post it, I say let it out. I know how you feel.
Rainwoman
Sadness Within
I can fathom reasons to live
but can't feel any of them.
Holding out for a hope
to end this problem.
In my world every day is full of strife,
could I just for once
feel the meaning of my life?
They say I'm talented
but I feel no joy,
it's depression I feel
talent is a decoy.
A face to appear in, a mask of deception
when all there really is,
is the sadness within.
I want to be me, for the hopelessness to cease
for once to feel what everybody sees.
Just a few moments in time,
when I can be at peace. --Rainwoman
Posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 16:34:38
In reply to It's my party and I'll die if I want to. , posted by Rainwoman on September 28, 2000, at 14:25:47
Hi rain woman.
I could not have put it better myself.
you are very eloquent.
I no long try to end my life, but I really hope that the end will come soon.
The sooner I will be done with, the better.
Non-existence is preferable to the than the pain that i go through being alive. Sleep is preferable to deceit.
God! if you're listening, forget it.
I'd like to say I don't mind the pain, and it's all worth it or something,
but I do and it isn't.JOhn
Posted by shar on September 28, 2000, at 17:55:47
In reply to Re: It's my party and I'll die if I want to. , posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 16:34:38
Life and strife should be at odds
Axiomatically right by voice of gods
The loss of hope and pain too great
The drive to death will escalate
Enraged at voices with no understanding
One doesn't escape internal branding
I despise
The reprise
Posted by tjweeks on September 29, 2000, at 14:26:15
In reply to It's my party and I'll die if I want to. , posted by Rainwoman on September 28, 2000, at 14:25:47
> > Hey,
> > I've been where u are, and i must say, that i still regret that my suicide was tampered with.
> >
> > As far as i'm concerned you have the right to stop the pain in anyway you see fit.
> >
> > If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. ...
> >
> > This having been said, I truly hope that you find another way of dealing with your pain. My lover and my sister both took their own lives. I know how much pain they were in, and i respect their decision, but i do miss them very much.
> >
> > all the best to you,
> > john
>
> I agree with both John and Todd. Everybody's pain is different, and who is to say how you should deal with it. I can see how it is alarming to some to discuss your own demise, especially for someone who has never suffered from depression before, let alone major depression. Lucky for those of you, you still have your survival instinct intact. Mine must've ran out of me with all the tears I have cried over the years. I know all too well nowadays what it feels like to have no hope. If you are already dead on the inside, why continue to suffer and consequently have those around you suffer? And before anybody brings up therapy, I have a very kind therapist whom I actually kind of like. He does try to make me feel better. He thinks that I just need to change my thinking. That if I improve my self esteem and recognize that I am talented, smart, witty(not as witty as Todd though), intelligent and have alot to offer, I will be happy. Sorry, but as dear as he is, he could say all those things to me until his tongue fell off. I can't FEEL any of those things. How can you when pain and sadness just consumes you and hurts so much sometimes that it hurts to breathe. I tried thinking his way, but I am so sick and tired of keeping up that farse. People, in my miserable little mind, can't understand what a person feels until you walk a mile in their shoes. Even then, you're just a mile away and you've got some poor bastards' shoes. My favorite thing is when he says, "Now I want you to promise me, you won't do anything to harm yourself, promise??" Okey, dokey doc, cross my heart, hope to die (oops, you already know that part...). The second favorite thing is, you can call me anytime to talk....yeah to your answering machine. I called that answering machine at 4:00am this morning to say I was having a very hard time and was really down (I didn't mention the fact that I had a "good friend" next to me myself. Only I throw up at the sight of blood. I would end up throwing up stuff I ate last week. That could make for a real long and messy ending. I don't have the courage for that, I didn't much care for half of what I ate last week. It's a good thing too, cause, call me demure, but I don't think that leaving a "I'm contemplating a slash and splash party and you're invited" is proper answering machine etiquette regardless of the hour.). I did hear from him at about 2:00 pm today. I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to hear those kind of party plans at 4:00am either. Ah, too many psychos, too little time.
>
> I am supposed to have an appt. with a p-doc next week, but I have done the med treads myself already, and just thinking about being let down again adds a new, not so colorful dimension to my ever present dismay. The only thing I fear, is that wherever you go from here is worse than here, if that could be possible. Another night like last night, and I may not have to wonder.
>
> I have no "safe" place in my childhood. Unless you might consider under the bed. But I lie awake in agony on top of the damn thing, I don't think climbing under it with the dust bunnies is going to bring me any hoorahs. Although it works for my cats.
>
> Anyway, enough of my rambling I just wanted to say I can empathize with what you are saying, and I hope things turn out for the better for everyone than they are for me. And, Todd, I like your dry sense of humor. You probably could write a book. I wouldn't want you to end up a "ghost" writer though! Sorry, poor pun. But, I think if you feel that way and it makes you feel even a little better to post it, I say let it out. I know how you feel.
>
> Rainwoman
>
> Sadness Within
>
> I can fathom reasons to live
> but can't feel any of them.
> Holding out for a hope
> to end this problem.
> In my world every day is full of strife,
> could I just for once
> feel the meaning of my life?
> They say I'm talented
> but I feel no joy,
> it's depression I feel
> talent is a decoy.
> A face to appear in, a mask of deception
> when all there really is,
> is the sadness within.
> I want to be me, for the hopelessness to cease
> for once to feel what everybody sees.
> Just a few moments in time,
> when I can be at peace. --Rainwoman
Rainwoman, I know this sounds like, yeah I know how you feel-------but I do. I was at the point you describe about 18 years ago. I have Chronic OCD and was also blessed with a major depressive episode. I would sleep maybe 30 minutes a night. I coud not force myself to eat anything. I lost from 200 lbs down to 145 over about a four month period. I could absolutely not see the light at the end of the tunnel. I was becoming more and more obssessed with suicide. The Doc had given me a script for Triavil but I had not taken any. One day after work I sat down on my bed in an absolute, never ending feeling of total misery. I picked up my pistol in my night stand and put it up to my head. I don't know why I did not pull the trigger(probably my wife or my new baby daughter), but I put the gun down and decided to try the medication. It was not immediate, but gradually I began to feel better. The point to this is that no matter how hopeless you feel it is, it just isn't. You need to find the proper meds(there are so many). Meds opinions are like assholes--everybody's got one. Triavil worked great for me, it literally saved my life. Since then I have switched to tofranil and Ativan. I have been on these for 17 years and feel good. DONT GIVE UP--once you do something drastic there might be no turning back. What if whatever is on the other side of life is worse. Like how you feel now but with no chance for improvement forever. To all of you out there------when you think you just cant go on, remember that there have been alot of people who have been at least as bad off as you that have made full recoveries and are living happy lives. It really does happen. God Bless You All
Posted by tina on September 29, 2000, at 18:55:16
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 9:38:43
If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. ...
Pullmarine:
I couldn't let this one slide. What kind of advice is that for someone contemplating taking his own life? Do you think you're being funny? Suicide attemps, however hilarious you think they may be, need to be taken seriously, not joked about and certainly not explained in detail on the effectiveness of doing it a certain way. Jesus, who do you think you're amusing? Obviously yourself. Do us all a favour and THINK before you post huh?
The value of a human life is priceless. ANY human life. If you don't place any value on the lives of others, I'm truly sad for you. Helping someone through a rough time, in my opinion, does NOT include planning out THEIR suicide for THEM. God, get a grip and THINK! Pain is real. THe help you offer should be REAL too. It is not a lauging matter.
Posted by Cindy W on September 29, 2000, at 22:48:54
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by tina on September 29, 2000, at 18:55:16
> If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. ...
>
> Pullmarine:
> I couldn't let this one slide. What kind of advice is that for someone contemplating taking his own life? Do you think you're being funny? Suicide attemps, however hilarious you think they may be, need to be taken seriously, not joked about and certainly not explained in detail on the effectiveness of doing it a certain way. Jesus, who do you think you're amusing? Obviously yourself. Do us all a favour and THINK before you post huh?
> The value of a human life is priceless. ANY human life. If you don't place any value on the lives of others, I'm truly sad for you. Helping someone through a rough time, in my opinion, does NOT include planning out THEIR suicide for THEM. God, get a grip and THINK! Pain is real. THe help you offer should be REAL too. It is not a lauging matter.Pullmarine, I agree with Tina. I don't think it is appropriate or kind to post ways to suicide on this board. I'd suspect that everybody here has felt like killing himself/herself at some time; however, suicidal wishes are usually temporary and there are lots and lots of options. Help may be just around the corner!--Cindy W
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