Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 30771

Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

Well, I went to see my psychiatrist today. (I've been seeing him weekly for going on three years). He immediately wanted to know how things were going. I had been reluctant to get into the badness of the day-to-day of the last few weeks because we (again) had started to get somewhere in our discussions on issues that I felt were more to the point of why I was seeing him in the first place.

He's noticed a "heaviness" in me the last couple of weeks and was trying to figure out if it was because of our discussions. So I got into the day-to-day stuff. How it's been hard to get out of bed. How I don't feel like doing anything, not even painting (artwork, not walls). Not even playing music or going to rehearsals. Not even working in the yard when it's an unusual warm and sunny spring day. How I've been feeling more insecure at work -- fairly well full of self-doubt most of the time. How hard work has been lately. How hard it has been to stay focused.

The answer? We've upped my Wellbutrin SR dose from 200 mg/day to 300. Still keeping the Remeron at 30 mg/day because of the problem with weight gain at the 45mg level. I've been on Remeron since March 1998.

Will this ever end? I feel as though I'm going to be taking these drugs for the rest of my natural-born days. I am 38.

I now see I had had depression to different extents long before, but went untreated. I slid into a major depression in late 1997. Started seeing my psyciatrist in January 1998. My husband left me and my alcoholic mother died suddenly both in July 1998. My doctor and I have been waiting for me to get through this grieving process. A year ago this Easter I was pretty happy, staying on Remeron, and just getting off lithium, thinking things were getting better. Things were looking up. I was getting off these drugs.

But things got worse last May/June and Wellbutrin SR 100 mg added. Then worse again in October -- I wrote here asking about hospitalization and what was it like. (Wellbutrin SR doubled then to 200mg). Now worse again this April.

What's next? What's the deal? I don't understand. What's wrong with my brain? What's wrong with me?

My doctor asked me (again) today if I thought the drugs were helping at all. Then he said that even he was in a quandary as to whether they were helping. Then he corrected himself to say he DID think they were helping somewhat. I said I had a hard time telling anymore with the exception that if I take the Remeron and then stay up about an hour after I do start to feel quite drowsy, so I know the Remeron is having some effect. Otherwise, I cannot tell. Things are better than they were two years ago, but is that the drugs or because chaos in my life has settled (ie, I'm not making funeral arrangements and putting my mom's home up for sale at the same time that I'm meeting with divorce lawyers)?

The Wellbutrin side effects of shakiness,
racing mind, tremors have dissipated over time and since I quit caffeine and split the dose from 200 in the morning to 100 in the morning and 100 in the afternoon. Now I'm trying 150 in the morning and afternoon. I just don't know anymore. I really don't.

My ex-mother-in-law has had depression I think for most of her life. There were times when her kids were small when they missed days and days and days of school because she couldn't get out of bed to get them up
and off to school. My ex-husband all through our 12 married years refused to eat eggs or pancakes or anything related to breakfast for dinner because
that's what his dad fixed them at night for dinner when his mom couldn't deal with it. She's been on Elavil for years. Recently on Prozac. Who knows what in between. I honestly cannot remember, but there were a number of different meds. She has gained so much weight over the years that now she weighs over 400 pounds. She has trouble getting down stairs now so spends most of her time upstairs in bed anymore. She is effectively housebound. An invalid.

Is this what I have to look forward to? Will this spiral never end? This is supposed to be a better time of year. Spring is here. It doesn't snow anymore. The flowers are out. Someday soon I can wear sandals. I don't have to fret about being alone for Christmas. Things should be looking up. For some reason, my brain does not agree.

I am so very very sick of this.

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by Kathie on April 20, 2000, at 22:18:59

In reply to I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

alisooon,

I don't think you should beat yourself up! You have been through hell, and maybe you just haven't made it all the way back yet. My goodness, to end a marriage and lose a mother in the same month!! The average person takes at least two years to recover from a death....divorce is very much like a death, death of a relationship, death of a way of life, death of a future...to experience 2 of them at one...whew! You should not expect miracles from yourself. I have been divorced once, at a very young age, and even that has taken years to recover from, inspite of the fact that I have been remarried for 15 years!! I don't care how good or horrible your mother was, to lose her would leave a huge gapping whole in your soul. We are all attached to our mother's in a way words can't really explain. I don't think all is lost for you, but you have a particularly deep hole to dig your way out of....don't expect so much from yourself. I understand how annoying, maddening, frustrating it can be when your "brain" or "body" does not behave the way you want it too. I have been where you are...sans the divorce and death....mine was a wayward daughter. She turned 12 and became any parents worst nightmare...drugs, sex, booze, crime, school dropout....pregnant at 16...in and out of Juvenile jail...in the state's care....blah blah..and on and on it went for friggin year after year...she finally gave her 3 year old up a year ago...she is 21...unemployed...and wanting to move back in with us (urg!!), so she can get a job and move out. Right now she is living with her 25 year old boyfriends parents! And so it continues...... I believe she was the cause of my depression, that and the fact me and my husband couldn't figure out how to deal with her and ended up separated twice over it....
I fully expect to remain on anti-depressants for a long time to come. And at the moment I want to, I am scared to even consider trying to make it on my own. I have another daughter who is 14, and although not anything like her sister...there are moments...flashbacks to the first one!! And just for the record, so you don't think maybe its me, my middle daughter who is 18 has been a joy!! I did something right with her!!

Anyways I have been rambling on and on...sorry about that, I just wanted you to know I have a little idea what you are going through and can relate, but I really think you should relax and not expect your brain to recover so quickly from such a huge life changing experience like you've experienced. Try and accept that your body is not going to respond the way you want it too. Sometimes the frustration of not having control of your own body can bring on depression, you feel depressed cuz you don't think you should feel so lousy! It is hard I know, but don't push yourself. Whether you are willing to admit it to yourself or not, it sounds like you really haven't finished grieving over your mother or your marriage. Time heals all wounds...but sometimes we just have to have some help to get us there. Give yourself time. Hope my rambling helps.

Kathie

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by Phil on April 20, 2000, at 22:32:14

In reply to I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

Hi Allison. I can relate to how you are feeling. I share a lot of the fears and struggles you are dealing with.

I get very disappointed and disillusioned so often that it's almost a constant. Just a 'loop' of worry and fear running over and over. Just when I think I'm a little better, I realize I may be slipping again.

As much as I try to take actions, like something as simple as enjoying this good time of year, I usually have a voice inside that just whispers,"Why?" I sit back down and just say f--k it.

I don't have any med recommendations, I am not inclined to try to give you suggestions when, I myself, can't seem to overcome the same feelings.
I don't have any magic words or witty one-liners.

All I can give you is 'the knowing' that you are not alone.

Here's to hope, okay?

Phil

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by bob on April 21, 2000, at 0:23:08

In reply to Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by Phil on April 20, 2000, at 22:32:14

You and me both, sister!

Gimme a few months and I'll be 38 as well. I guess the big advantage I have on you is that I've been seriously depressed since I was 8. Didn't really get serious about treatment until I was, oh, 33 or so. Started meds a year later. My therapist told me, prior to my first prescription, that meds give you a different window on the world. Not necessarily better, not necessarily worse, but different.

Boy howdy, I'll sure say THAT was true!

Until that first 50mg of zoloft, I had never known just how depressed I was (yeah, it only took 50mg and about 20 minutes). Now, in the three years since, the meds I've been on have given me about 7 or 8 different windows on the world. I can't say that any of those were necessarily worse than being depressed and off meds, but some of them were definitely bad. Right now, I probably have the best view yet that hasn't made me giddy ... I had a manic response to zoloft the first time, and the memory of it makes it really difficult to accept anything else as good enough.

What my therapist should have said, perhaps, is that meds can give you a different window on yourself. Even when being emotionally flat was the best I could achieve, it still provided enough support for me to start looking at the dark places inside of me. Lately, going over the same "ground" I've visited with my therapist maybe four or five times before -- it's like an onion, peeling back the layers -- I've come to some realizations that are absolutely chilling. If I hadn't hidden these thoughts from myself when I was off meds, I know I wouldn't have survived them. Having tried to kill myself before, I know what took me to that point once -- this "new" stuff ... its thousands of times worse.

But, with where my meds have taken me, I can face that knowledge and see it for what it is ... and its doing me no harm.

I've been on meds for a small span of my life. It hasn't all been rosy, but I can't see going back. I can damn my parents for the way they didn't raise me and I can damn them for the genes they gave me. But I'm not going to damn myself because our culture has deeply-seated beliefs that I'm less of a person due to my disorder and I'm less of a person because I rely on medication to help my brain function.

F*ck that. Plain and simple.

Yes, its tiring. Yes, its hard. Yes, I can get soooooooo sick of it, too. But what makes it worse is the weight we put on ourselves and the weight that others put on us because of it. That's what I'm most sick of. So I don't hide it anymore, and I don't hide from it anymore. It's a piece of my life that I don't stick in people's faces, but if it comes up I bring it up plain as day. And THEN, if someone wants to give me some attitude about it -- then I stick it and their bigotry right back in their face.

I'm sick of fighting the wrong person. (yeah, that'd be me)

Pardon me for blowin' off, but I'm also sick of seeing so many of my friends so sick and so tired and so down.

allisonm, maybe seeing your pdoc for therapy isn't the best idea. I know some people prefer it and I guess in some places in can save on costs, but I see my pdoc for meds and that's what we talk about. Once a month. If any change goes dreadfully wrong, he's always a phone call away from me and a second call away from my pharmacy. He can ask me how I'm feeling -- my therapist can ask me how I *am*. It sounds like you were starting to "peel that onion", to get to something deeper, when you got distracted by the day-to-day.

You know, my last visit (just Monday) with my pdoc, we had some extra time and he started asking those questions about "how I am" instead of "how I feel" -- and the stuff I had to share with him from my last therapy session (the Friday before) practically made him blanch ... I can't imagine what he'd have me on if he had to deal with treating me on a weekly basis right now!

But I guess I could go to www.mentalhealth.com and make some educated guesses...

fight the good fight, okay?
Bob

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by JohnB on April 21, 2000, at 0:52:20

In reply to I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

Allison, perhaps your present meds aren't doing enough for you right now. Have you discussed with your pdoc trying something new? There are some really knowledgeable people on this board who may be able to suggest some alternatives.

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by JohnL on April 21, 2000, at 3:59:15

In reply to I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

I'm so sorry to hear of your struggles. I can sure relate. It gives me a very heavy heart to hear of your pain. As if it was my own. I've been in your shoes way too often, and way too long.

I hope you don't mind if I offer my opinions and a referral?

I subscribe to the theory that long med trials--contrary to standard psychiatry--are NOT needed. I'm probably one of a handful of blacksheep in this regard. But I truly believe--and have seen it firsthand in myself and many others--that the CORRECT med for a particular patient's chemistry will provide very fast results with minimal side effects. Those are the characteristics of a good match. Of course we all know that good results can be gained from 6 week or longer trials. But those results are from an indirect trickle-down process that is not targeting the chemistry deficiency directly. In the old days, we had few drugs to choose from, so the trickle down process of long trials was the only option. But today there are so many choices, one of which will very likely target the chemistry directly, providing dramatic and prompt results. In general I truly believe the farther away a drug is from targeting our unique chemistry, the longer it takes to work--if it works at all. In your case, I think there are plenty of clues suggesting your current meds are off-target.

I also feel that anyone in your condition is experiencing a medical emergency. It's more than just depression. It's a heavy burden every minute of every hour, every hour of every day, and is a serious handicap to normal functioning. Suicide is a tragic, needless, and not uncommon result. I would classify your current condition as a medical emergency, justifying very aggressive tactics. Staying with a med that hasn't shown much promise, and simply raising its dose from 200mg to 300mg (when the max is 450mg to 600mg) is, in my opinion, NOT agressive at all. It shows me a certain amount of complacency in the behavior of your physician. He is too entrenched in standard textbook approaches, and not nearly aggressive enough to take your situation as serious, or you as a unique individual with unique chemistry requiring unique treatment. Textbook blanket umbrella treatments are good for GPs and cases of mild depression, but not at all appropriate for you at this time. In my opinion.

I would like to refer you to www.drjensen.com. Set up a consultation with Dr Jensen. Cost is no different than if you went to any psychiatrist, and he conducts interviews over the phone just as if you were in the office. He is quite professional. He has a massive track record for successfully treating patients who have been disappointed with other physicians, and he has a book about his approaches experiencing high sales and being taught in medical schools. He usually achieves total success in anywhere from one to three visits, with a maximum of eight. He does so by leaving no stone unturned. He'll run you through quick trials of all kinds of different psychiatric meds, in search of that magic molecule that your chemistry prefers. He has a real talent for gathering clues from your med reactions and making sense out of it all.

My own doctor also uses this approach. Not with everyone, but certainly with the tough cases. But finding a local physician who is well-versed and comfortable with this approach is nearly impossible. I got lucky. So the surest quickest option is to go to the pioneer of the strategy himself...Dr Jensen. He treats patients all over the world. He is passionate about what he does. His success proves it. But you WILL need a local physcian to cooperate. Dr Jensen will speak with your local doc first, and will communicate recommendations and prescriptions by fax directly to your doctor's office. If your doc shows any hesitancy at all, Dr Jensen is very professinal and polite and will call your doctor personally to discuss any hesitancies. Some people think he's a quack or a get-rich scheme. No so. He's a bonafide natural born expert, and he makes no more money than your own psychiatrist. Most important, he is passionately in love with what he does, and your total recovery--fast--is all he wants.

In summary, I feel you have reached a point where quick trials of various meds are justified, in order to search for the best match. The best match will make itself obvious in days, not weeks. It is not likely you will find an aggressive passionate physician whos focus is getting you well FAST. Most docs are too entrenched in traditional psychiatry (which as we know has plenty of failures) to have the tools to do what is needed. That's why I suggest going to www.drjensen.com. It's the quickest surest way I know of to get this thing in gear! Hope this helps. JohnL

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by Mark H. on April 21, 2000, at 4:03:21

In reply to Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by JohnB on April 21, 2000, at 0:52:20

Hi Allison,

Love your story! Here's my totally off-the-wall hit, which I only have the audacity to share after reading bob's wonderful post: you're on too many meds, and at least some of them are definitely wrong for you! A "difference" is *NOT* good enough. If a med doesn't give you a clear improvement in mood, stop taking it. If it makes you worse, stop taking it at once -- don't wait six weeks to see if by some miracle it's going to suddenly stop making you sick and start making you better.

I never cease to be amazed at the number of doctors who just keep piling on the pills and increasing the dosages without asking whether they are CLEARLY making things better for you or not. I personally have not met one single person who actually had to wait six weeks (the current gold standard for "fair chance") to know whether an antidepressant or adjunctive helped or not.

Most *untreated* depression will remit in six months or less, so the longer you take an antidepressant without a clearly noticable improvement from the drug, the more likely it is that any improvement you experience has nothing to do with drugs anyway.

I remember the miserable weeks I wasted on Prozac, chasing side effects around my body while my depression stayed the same or got worse. People who respond well to Prozac usually feel better very quickly! I had different but equally miserable experiences with Zoloft, Paxil, desipramine, Remeron, Serzone, Depakote, Lithium, Nardil, Neurontin, Maprotiline, Clonidine, Ascendin, Nortriptiline, Trazadone and Ultram.

Instead of upping everything until your body is a toxic mess and correlations become impossible to discern, try *stopping* something. Once you've tapered off and its been clear of your system for a few days, do you feel better or worse?

Then stop taking something else. Stop taking as many of your meds as you can until you begin to feel clear differences and can discern between differences and improvements.

Then start over with your psychiatrist and only take stuff that actually helps. If you don't feel better, stop taking it and try something else.

Whether you have to take antidepressants for the rest of your life will depend a lot on whether your depression is "merely" situational based on the extreme suffering you've experienced for the last couple of years, or whether you've genetically and experientially "run out" of neurotransmitters. But either way, you have the right to keep trying different things until you find a mix that actually makes you feel better, not just different. (Or until you've healed enough that you come out of the depression all by yourself.)

And to reinforce what bob said, psychiatrists are for drugs; counselors are for therapy. See your pdoc regularly until you find the right meds; then see him three or four times a year. Find a good counselor and see her/him every week -- they are usually less expensive, too, especially if it works for you to join a therapy group.

Please forgive my boldness -- I certainly wouldn't give this advice to most people -- and use your own good judgment on what information to accept or reject. Listen to your body.

Best wishes,

Mark H.

 

Re: Hey allisonm, me too....

Posted by CarolAnn on April 21, 2000, at 8:58:08

In reply to I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

allison, everyone on this board has been where you are. We know how you feel, and we feel that pain with you. I won't give advise, because some of the above posts are better than I can do. But, just know that people are here to listen and care for each other. And, when you post, some readers will even be praying for you. This really is a good place to "talk" things out, this site has helped a lot of people, including me. If all you want is a place to express what you are feeling, or complain about stuff, we're here for that too. Try to be good to yourself, and if there's no one to talk to, come and talk to us, there's almost always someone here. Take Care! CarolAnn

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by michael on April 21, 2000, at 9:32:43

In reply to I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

Just one quick comment - about your " Will this ever end? I feel as though I'm going to be taking these drugs for the rest of my natural-born days," comment...

It's like Mark said, maybe. But if the answer is yes, that's not necessarily a bad thing. If it's a brain chemistry issue - like it is with a lot of us - the answer probably would be yes.

But that's no different than taking insulin, if your body needs that. Like the others have said, if you need to take something "forever", it won't be a chore, when you find the right one (or ones).

Hope that makes some sense...


> Well, I went to see my psychiatrist today. (I've been seeing him weekly for going on three years). He immediately wanted to know how things were going. I had been reluctant to get into the badness of the day-to-day of the last few weeks because we (again) had started to get somewhere in our discussions on issues that I felt were more to the point of why I was seeing him in the first place.
>
> He's noticed a "heaviness" in me the last couple of weeks and was trying to figure out if it was because of our discussions. So I got into the day-to-day stuff. How it's been hard to get out of bed. How I don't feel like doing anything, not even painting (artwork, not walls). Not even playing music or going to rehearsals. Not even working in the yard when it's an unusual warm and sunny spring day. How I've been feeling more insecure at work -- fairly well full of self-doubt most of the time. How hard work has been lately. How hard it has been to stay focused.
>
> The answer? We've upped my Wellbutrin SR dose from 200 mg/day to 300. Still keeping the Remeron at 30 mg/day because of the problem with weight gain at the 45mg level. I've been on Remeron since March 1998.
>
> Will this ever end? I feel as though I'm going to be taking these drugs for the rest of my natural-born days. I am 38.
>
> I now see I had had depression to different extents long before, but went untreated. I slid into a major depression in late 1997. Started seeing my psyciatrist in January 1998. My husband left me and my alcoholic mother died suddenly both in July 1998. My doctor and I have been waiting for me to get through this grieving process. A year ago this Easter I was pretty happy, staying on Remeron, and just getting off lithium, thinking things were getting better. Things were looking up. I was getting off these drugs.
>
> But things got worse last May/June and Wellbutrin SR 100 mg added. Then worse again in October -- I wrote here asking about hospitalization and what was it like. (Wellbutrin SR doubled then to 200mg). Now worse again this April.
>
> What's next? What's the deal? I don't understand. What's wrong with my brain? What's wrong with me?
>
> My doctor asked me (again) today if I thought the drugs were helping at all. Then he said that even he was in a quandary as to whether they were helping. Then he corrected himself to say he DID think they were helping somewhat. I said I had a hard time telling anymore with the exception that if I take the Remeron and then stay up about an hour after I do start to feel quite drowsy, so I know the Remeron is having some effect. Otherwise, I cannot tell. Things are better than they were two years ago, but is that the drugs or because chaos in my life has settled (ie, I'm not making funeral arrangements and putting my mom's home up for sale at the same time that I'm meeting with divorce lawyers)?
>
> The Wellbutrin side effects of shakiness,
> racing mind, tremors have dissipated over time and since I quit caffeine and split the dose from 200 in the morning to 100 in the morning and 100 in the afternoon. Now I'm trying 150 in the morning and afternoon. I just don't know anymore. I really don't.
>
> My ex-mother-in-law has had depression I think for most of her life. There were times when her kids were small when they missed days and days and days of school because she couldn't get out of bed to get them up
> and off to school. My ex-husband all through our 12 married years refused to eat eggs or pancakes or anything related to breakfast for dinner because
> that's what his dad fixed them at night for dinner when his mom couldn't deal with it. She's been on Elavil for years. Recently on Prozac. Who knows what in between. I honestly cannot remember, but there were a number of different meds. She has gained so much weight over the years that now she weighs over 400 pounds. She has trouble getting down stairs now so spends most of her time upstairs in bed anymore. She is effectively housebound. An invalid.
>
> Is this what I have to look forward to? Will this spiral never end? This is supposed to be a better time of year. Spring is here. It doesn't snow anymore. The flowers are out. Someday soon I can wear sandals. I don't have to fret about being alone for Christmas. Things should be looking up. For some reason, my brain does not agree.
>
> I am so very very sick of this.

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by KarenB on April 21, 2000, at 10:19:32

In reply to Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by michael on April 21, 2000, at 9:32:43

Dear Carol,

I totally agree with what MarkH and JohnL have said, especially what was said about the "quick response" method. I think maybe you should consider giving Dr Jensen a call. Further, through your meds, you are supposed to have an IMPROVED quality of life, not just a "different" one, as bob said. If a doctor is perfectly satisfied for you to be suffering side effects and not getting RESULTS, well, it's time to break off that relationship and try something - and someone - new.

It has been my experience that if a drug is NOT right, I know it almost immediately. And those who have a great response to, say, Prozac (I certainly didn't), like my mother in law, knew it was "right" from the first day - like suddenly someone turned on the lights.

Have HOPE - tell yourself it IS GOING TO GET BETTER and believe it. I do not believe life has to suck - I just don't buy that. I may die trying but I am going to get better.

Are you with me in this thinking?

By the way, I am among those who will be praying for you. No kidding.

You go, girl.

Karen

 

thank you

Posted by allisonm on April 21, 2000, at 20:53:49

In reply to I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

Thank you all for your empathy and for your input, good thoughts, and prayers, and for taking the time to write. Just reading and rereading your posts has helped me a lot today, and I am grateful to Dr. Bob for this place.

Maybe I should clarify a little on the drugs. My doctor first started me on Zoloft. Your points about knowing immediately whether a drug works ring true. I knew within about two days that I would not be able to tolerate Zoloft. We signed off the SSRIs.

Then I tried Effexor XR. Horrible. I fought the side effects for a longer period hoping they'd dissipate, but they didn't. I called my doctor in mid-week to say I couldn't stand it anymore. I thought my heart was going to pound right out of my chest. I felt as though I was on a rollercoaster going down an absolutely vertical hill -- all day long.

So Remeron came next. Bingo. After having bad insomnia for months, I could finally sleep. Just being able to sleep helped. Over time, I realized I was able to focus more on work -- another result I attribute to the Remeron. I seem to be able to tell right away if a drug is really wrong. It takes me longer to tell if it's helping. Or maybe I've never found one that really helped.

Then I seem to hit plateaus, then start sliding backward. That's why the lithium was added. I hated lithium because it gave me the runs. But after switching to another form, I put up with it. It seemed to help, but it was gradual. Things got so good last spring and my doctor knew how much I hated the lithium that he let me off of it.

It didn't take long before I was in a hole again. Enter Wellbutrin, which gradually helped get me on an even keel over the summer. Last fall when the dose was upped from 100 to 200 I had asked for him to do something. I'd fallen backwards again. I couldn't stand the way I felt. I was wishing and praying myself dead nightly. The 200 mg helped. There were side effects. Tremor, racing mind, irritability. I stuck it out because I was very afraid that if I stopped I would go back to where I was in October and I knew I would not survive that.

Yesterday, my doctor was the one who brought it up. He was the one to see things weren't good. He caught it before I had gotten to the point of wishing/praying for death, for which I guess I am grateful. He was the one who suggested upping the Wellbutrin to 300. I like the Wellbutrin in some ways. Sometimes I feel stupid and that my short-term memory is lacking, but other times I have felt mentally sharper. I also have lost weight. With all I read about weight gain, I am quite afraid of changing meds. I am overweight. I don't think I could stand to become obese.

Yes, bob, we have been peeling away at the onion a lot lately. In fact, my doctor has referred to it in just this way. There have been some realizations recently that have been hard to take.

I have a friend who found that Celexa fixed everything -- just like that. He's weaned himself off it now, and I'm glad to know he's doing very well. I guess what I'm noticing is that for me no drug has ever brought me all the way out of the hole, but they have at least put a floor under my feet -- for awhile. Then I need more. Am I developing a greater tolerance? Is this what others refer to as poop-out? Is it even working enough to even poop out? Adjustments seem to be necessary every 4-6 months. Sometimes less. It appears obvious that Remeron alone will not do the trick.

My doctor is very aware how reluctant and wary I am to take any drug in the first place. I think this probably accounts for at least some of his conservatism. He also knows how reluctant I was just to see him. It was a desperate last resort. If I stop seeing him I will not see another. It has taken more than 100 hours for my doctor and me to get to where we are. I have too much invested. He knows me and more about me than any person on this earth. I cannot go through this again with another person. He has made some very good observations. Often I think he has helped more than the drugs have.

This winter there were times when I wondered whether the drugs were working at all. I was seriously considering just stopping them, giving up, stopping my psychotherapy, just letting nature take its course. If that meant eventual suicide, so be it. Maybe this is as it should be. Maybe I shouldn't be fooling with chemistry. Maybe I don't belong in this gene pool. But I will suspend this train of thought for now. For now I will take on the belief from those of you who insist that life does not have to suck.

I usually see my doctor on Thursdays. Next week, however, I see him on Tuesday. I usually don't bring up the medications when we meet. He usually is the one to ask me. I guess I have become ambivalent in this area. As I said, I hate taking drugs. This time, however, I will take your good advice and ask him whether there isn't some other drug or combination I can try that will get me out of the hole further. It appears that I am not the only one to be questioning their efficacy now. I will let you know what happens.

I'm sorry for being so long-winded and probably redundant. Thank you all again, very much.

Warm regards,
allison

 

Re: thank you

Posted by bob on April 21, 2000, at 21:21:27

In reply to thank you, posted by allisonm on April 21, 2000, at 20:53:49

> I'm sorry for being so long-winded and probably redundant. Thank you all again, very much.

heyHeyHEY! Babbleland means never having to say your sorry.

I didn't see any TCAs in there. Pardon me, but I'm a big TCA cheerleader. Ask about nortriptyline or desipramine when you see your doc.

be well,
bob

 

Re: thank you

Posted by JohnL on April 22, 2000, at 3:46:50

In reply to thank you, posted by allisonm on April 21, 2000, at 20:53:49

Allison,
Thank you for sharing your story. I found it very interesting.

I think the realization that more emphasis should be put on medication exploration is a good one. I understand your reluctance to take meds. I think we all feel that way. But at some point it becomes beneficial and constructive to face the realities head-on and do our best to be open to medications, because the right one--when it's found--will totally turn your life around.

I would encourage you to ask your doctor to help you with this issue of accepting medications. And I would give him the go-ahead to get aggressive. You've already had several drug trials. Even though they were negative, they were meaningful. The reason is because they provide clues as to where to go next and what to avoid. In your shoes I would be wanting to try meds from different classes not yet explored.

Just wanted to say I feel for you. I can relate. And I'm on the sidelines cheering for you! JohnL

 

Allison: yet another matter of life and death

Posted by Uncle Wallace on April 22, 2000, at 16:57:46

In reply to I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

Bela Fleck and the Flecktones: Live Art. Play it LOUD until the new drugs kick in.

I will lift a glass of light red in your direction tomorrow afternoon. Roll away the rock!

Best regards,
Your friend

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by Sara T. on April 22, 2000, at 18:23:15

In reply to I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

>
>

You've certainly been through it all, and from the responses here, well, I don't know if I'd have anything else I could say about different drugs to try. But something you said in your post intrigued me.

Until I was in my 40's I hadn't tried any meds for the depression and anxiety that had followed me around through most of my adult life. But the one thing I can recall that would pull me back from the edge when I would contemplate non-existance was the beauty of the natural world. Your part about noticing the new ffowers in the spring and how good it will feel to wear sandals soon, really resonated with me. I hope that for you, those things are a sign that somewhere inside you, you are still capable of seeing the beauty around you, and still capable of closing your eyes and imagining how good the sun on your face feels. If that is true, then you have in you, in spite of everything, a resiliance to come back to a place where you can truly enjoy the moment.

So, have some faith in yourself. I too have felt sick of feeling bad (in fact I'm in one of those states now). You must be a strong person to have come out of everything you've been through. Healing takes time.

Sara T.

 

Re: Allison: yet another matter of life and death

Posted by allison on April 22, 2000, at 20:33:56

In reply to Allison: yet another matter of life and death, posted by Uncle Wallace on April 22, 2000, at 16:57:46

Yes, Uncle dear.

But Amazon just sent me my two Patti Smith CDs and Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" (now really Uncle, what else would you expect from me?) I was going to put them on, dye my hair black and do the bunny hop with Richard Avedon.

Don't spare the mint sauce tomorrow. I can smell it from here.

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by allisonm on April 22, 2000, at 20:47:55

In reply to Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by Sara T. on April 22, 2000, at 18:23:15

Thanks, Sara. If it weren't for nature and for my cats, I wouldn't be here. I feel closer and more at home with nature and animals than I do with people. Nature can be so passive. It takes a lot of focus to see it. I try to put stuff out of my head, seek out and enjoy those moments. Sometimes it helps, but sometimes it isn't enough.

I was diagnosed with major depression, single episode, moderate in early 1998. Does anybody know: Can a single episode last two years?

 

Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this

Posted by boB on April 24, 2000, at 1:57:44

In reply to Re: I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 22, 2000, at 20:47:55

> I was diagnosed with major depression, single episode, moderate in early 1998. Does anybody know: Can a single episode last two years?

Yes, as long as you continue to pay the clinician who offered the diagnosis. It sounds to me like you were on the right track with your nature thing.

Human ideation and cultural constructs might be the sole cause, or the primary contributing factor to the biologically measurable conditions that correlate to the diagnosis of depression.

Natural systems such as non-human species seem so much better integrated. Me thinks they have studied life for a longer time than have we.

 

update

Posted by allisonm on April 25, 2000, at 20:01:43

In reply to I am soooooooooo sick of this, posted by allisonm on April 20, 2000, at 20:45:38

Saw my doctor today. I'll cut the Remeron from 30mg to 15 mg, then we'll talk about how my sleep is next week. I am to increase the Wellbutrin SR (again) from 300mg to the top dose of 400mg. If the Wellbutrin does the trick by itself, he (and I) would prefer to stay with one drug. If it doesn't, he said we could discuss adding something else. I feel better in that at least we're doing something about this.

I have been a little surprised since Thursday to go to 300mg with nary a tremor when I was shaky at 200 until I split the dose to 100mg 2X/day. I don't get it.

If the Wellbutrin doesn't do it, are there any suggestions? I don't seem to tolerate SSRIs or Effexor or lithium. A friend has suggested TCAs, but neither of us knows much about them.

My doctor thinks my recent backslide is due to what we've been talking about in the last month and revelations from those discussions. I can't disagree. Some of those revelations hit me like a brick wall.

Bob, when you got into rough psychotherapy territory, did you backslide? Did you have to change your meds? Anyone else?

Thanks.

 

Re: update

Posted by Noa on April 26, 2000, at 13:41:07

In reply to update, posted by allisonm on April 25, 2000, at 20:01:43

Allison, yes, there have been times when discussions in therapy have opened the wounds up too much. If that is happening, you and your therapist can strategize on how to structure the discussions to help you feel you have more control over when and how to delve into material that might overwhelm you. Ie, let the wounds close a bit. Changes in meds do come in handy, sometimes, even when the trigger might be psychological.


This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.