![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Adam on January 31, 2000, at 0:33:03
So I've met a woman, and I can quite honestly say that I am deeply in love with this person. It is wonderful and, sometimes, frightening. It's still very new, but I am scared sometimes because I know only one of two things can happen, eventually: At some point in the future we part ways, or we choose to stay together. I can hardly bear the thought of the former at this stage, but the latter has it's own issues for me, and perhaps others here.
One big issue: What about kids?
She has suffered from depression. So have I. I think we are both being successfully treated. I also know that we are not cured, only relieved. Other members of her family have dealt with serious depression. I look at my family, especially on my mother's side, and it's just a horror story. The question of heretibility is, in my mind, inescapable.
I never want to see a child of mine suffer the way that I did. I've vacillated between deciding to never be a parent, to perhaps adopting. But my own flesh and blood? It almost feels immoral.
And yet. I've never been with someone who didn't want kids, nor have any felt they were willing to forgo the experience of bearing their own child. I also have spent a great deal of time with my niece, the only little one in my life right now, and she has me captivated. I've never responded to a child this way before. All I can think is, a part of her is a part of me. I can't help but love her. I cannot discount the power of the familial link.
Most astonishing of all, something that never occurred to me until I was told just recently, but someone might want to have a child with me because I have attributes they want to see in that child.
But what about depression? What about inheritance? I just don't want to bring more unhappiness into the world. What does one do, when faced with such choices?
Posted by Abby on January 31, 2000, at 2:08:52
In reply to Depression and procreation..., posted by Adam on January 31, 2000, at 0:33:03
> So I've met a woman, and I can quite honestly say that I am deeply in love with this person. It is wonderful and, sometimes, frightening. It's still very new, but I am scared sometimes because I know only one of two things can happen, eventually: At some point in the future we part ways, or we choose to stay together. I can hardly bear the thought of the former at this stage, but the latter has it's own issues for me, and perhaps others here.
>
> One big issue: What about kids?
>
> She has suffered from depression. So have I. I think we are both being successfully treated. I also know that we are not cured, only relieved. Other members of her family have dealt with serious depression. I look at my family, especially on my mother's side, and it's just a horror story. The question of heretibility is, in my mind, inescapable.
>
> I never want to see a child of mine suffer the way that I did. I've vacillated between deciding to never be a parent, to perhaps adopting. But my own flesh and blood? It almost feels immoral.
>
> And yet. I've never been with someone who didn't want kids, nor have any felt they were willing to forgo the experience of bearing their own child. I also have spent a great deal of time with my niece, the only little one in my life right now, and she has me captivated. I've never responded to a child this way before. All I can think is, a part of her is a part of me. I can't help but love her. I cannot discount the power of the familial link.
>
> Most astonishing of all, something that never occurred to me until I was told just recently, but someone might want to have a child with me because I have attributes they want to see in that child.
>
> But what about depression? What about inheritance? I just don't want to bring more unhappiness into the world. What does one do, when faced with such choices?At some point, you just have to do it. Don't you think that in the next 20 years that more and better treatments will be available?
Posted by Noa on January 31, 2000, at 6:37:27
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation..., posted by Abby on January 31, 2000, at 2:08:52
This is something I have thought a lot about, too. At this point in my life, I feel it is unlikely I will have my own kids, because of my age (39) and because of all the meds I am on and unlikelihood that I would be able to go off them for the gestational period.
But, in terms of the possibility of having a child prone to depression: there is a lot to be said for awareness and sensitivity. A parent who is aware of a child's possible vulnerabilities, and who is sensitive to the child's feelings, and who is willing to intervene appropriately if need be, can do a lot for a child with inherited vulnerabilities. I think my problems with depression would not be so severe if I had grown up in a time and place and family that could offer the right help early on. We know about the effects of depressive episodes on the brain, so stepping in early seems like it would make a huge difference in the course of person's exerience with depression.
Adam, it is great to hear about these developments in your life.
Posted by CarolAnn on January 31, 2000, at 9:31:35
In reply to Depression and procreation..., posted by Adam on January 31, 2000, at 0:33:03
Adam, there's not much I can claim to be expert on, but this subject comes as close as any other in my experience.
Both sides of my family have major depression, but I am the only one who ever actually got help(they are all in denial, self-medicating with alcolhol, drugs, and food). For a long time I struggled with my intense desire to have children and the knowledge of what their genetic background could doom them too. What you must remember though, is that it is not *just* genetics that cause one to suffer depression. Usually, it is a combination of being pre-disposed to depression and then being raised in the type of dysfunctional family that would foster depression.
I have a 21 month old daughter now, and because I have been through years of therapy, done tons of research, and endless hours of soul searching, I feel confidante that if she is going to suffer for her genetics, her depression will not have been made worse by her upbringing. I have experienced very extreme depressive episodes(especially post-partum)since her birth and yet, because of all I have made myself learn prior to her birth, I have been able to suffer my depression without letting it affect her. Even when I feel like crap, I am loving and attentive to my baby. When I was post-partum, and felt as if I wished I never had her, I constantly held her, spoke in a loving voice, sang to her, gave her everything that I *knew* she needed emotionally, as well as physically.
Actually, if you think about it, people like you and I make even better parents then some others who have never suffered. We are more self-aware, and certainly more aware of all the things that were lacking in our own childhoods, so we are better equipped to make stronger efforts to give our children all the emotional support they need. The bottom line is, if you are going to have a child, do as much learning about everything related to child rearing as you can. Don't think that you ever reach a point of "knowing it all", no one ever really does. People think that "love is all you need", but that's not so.
Anyone can be a good parent, even those suffering the handicap of depression. It's all a matter of learning how to put the child's needs ahead of your problems. There are a lot of parents whose heads are buried in the sand, whose children need help for a variety of "mental health" issues. These are bad parents, and theirs are the kids who will suffer as adults. We, at least, are aware of potential problems, our kids will get the help they need, as soon as they need it. So, really they are better off then the children of so called "healthy" parents.
I could go on much longer, but you get the idea. I do feel very qualified giving advise on the subject of child rearing. Before I had my own child, I spent 10 years working in the childcare field, in a variety of positions. I did daycare centers, and spent many years as a sort of roving nanny, taking care of probably hundreds of children of all ages. And I also spent many years as a full-time live in Nanny, actually raising the children eleven hours a day. Anyway, Adam, I do have a lot more that I would like to tell you, but don't want this to get any longer. If you have specific questions, I would love to give any help I can.CarolAnn
Posted by Racer on January 31, 2000, at 21:52:07
In reply to Depression and procreation..., posted by Adam on January 31, 2000, at 0:33:03
The answer isn't to be a perfect parent, it's not about avoiding making mistakes in your rearing of a child, the real answer is just to make a new set of mistakes wit hyour own child.
Personally, for all the pain my depression has brought me, what makes it closest to unbearable is that my mother has never tried to help herself. That said, I'd have a child in a heartbeat if I could. I'm almost crying in front of my monitor right this second, because I can feel my body aching to hold a child. I have two ex-steps, one of whom is and always will be my sunshine, but I want one of my own. After as many miscarriages as I've had, who knows if I'll ever manage to make like a xerox machine, but I sure want to try.
And would I try with someone who had experienced depression? You betcha, as long as he had enough on the ball to get help. Hmmm... Sound like anyone you can think of?
Many wishes of bliss for you, my compadre
Posted by dove on February 1, 2000, at 12:15:45
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation..., posted by Racer on January 31, 2000, at 21:52:07
This is a really serious and difficult choice. I have shared bits and pieces about my family, my children, and the day-to-day struggles are many times overwhelming to me. Sometimes I'm so tired of fighting against myself I don't have the strength to interact with my kids. Sometimes I'm so tired of interacting and giving to my children, I don't have the strength to help myself.
I have stated before, that without my children I wouldn't have sought help for myself. On the other hand, my children who have the "markers" of depression, greatly strain my ability to function. My daughter, who has tried quite a number of meds and seen a number of docs, has bottomed out again. She breaks down in tears at school about every two hours, she walks in the door and cries and cries. She's sad, frustrated, and doesn't know how to handle it or how to help us help herself. That has weighed on my pretty heavily the last couple of weeks. I dp feel guilty, but that is like blaming myself for something I had control over. Which is plain wrong. How many parents aren't depressed and still have children who are. We cannot predict with absolute certainty what those genes hold for the future.
So, wrapping up, I think most of the people on this board actually care and know more about mental/mood disorders, and would probably make very good parents in comparison to the general public. Why, because they search for answers, clues, methods to help and to fight against the monsters that hide in our hearts. I wish my parents had known more, or at least recognized and acknowledged the illness. It's a hard decision, but at the same time, love for one another creates the atmosphere in which to bear offspring and to nurture that offspring.
Morally, having children when you know, even with 100% certainty, they will have a mental/mood disorder is not wrong, in the truest sense it is right. It's wrong to rid society of people who are disadvantaged or different, we need those people. I know it's a heavy responsibility to bring those lives into this world and then try to guide and nurture them, but, if you don't, there are less children to grow into adults and to discover new things, and make a difference in this world.
just a few thoughts.
dove
Posted by Abby on February 1, 2000, at 12:23:27
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation..., posted by Racer on January 31, 2000, at 21:52:07
Racer-- Glad to see you've come back, even though I was brand new when you went away. You managed to fix your computer, I guess.
So sorry about your not being able to have a child. Many hugs, Abby
Posted by Adam on February 2, 2000, at 23:22:22
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation...Racer, posted by Abby on February 1, 2000, at 12:23:27
Thank you all for your words.Dove, your experiences are exactly what I'm afraid of, and your
bravery and compassion are admirable. I guess it's just one of
those things: I'm not at that bridge yet, so maybe I ought not
to dwell too much on crossing it. I just would hate to think
some time in the future after things are really serious it
becomes an issue that can't be ignored or agreed upon. I'd
rather, in such circumstances, get the heartache over with now.
But it's probably too soon.I still don't know what I'd do.
It's hard. I mean, I would really like to have just one person
some day. I've been through the love cuisinart enough, thanks.
Not one single woman I have dated or gotten really serious with
didn't want kids in the worst way some day. My current S.O. is
a bit older than me, too, and though she doesn't harp on it,
the biological clock is ticking rather loudly, I guess. I used
to kind of poo-poo the whole concept (I thought it rather sexist
to assume that perhaps the majority of the women I know felt a
real urge to make a baby, like "jeez, are we all salmon or
something?") Then when something approaching paternal urges hit
me from out of nowhere...yikes!Now that almost all my female friends are nearly 30 or in their
30's, the ones who haven't found a soul mate have been openly
discussing the issue with me. A couple are even thinking of just
having a kid on their own, though not very seriously.Not a single one seems too concerned about their genetic
heritage. For the majority, if they have suffered from mental
illness, I'm not aware of it. I bet it wouldn't matter.I just don't know. I look back at my ancestry and it's a grim
sight indeed. I've never felt too keen about the idea of
perpetuating my family line. I figured, being a thinking
individual, I would let it end with me.I guess there's just no way to know what the right thing to do
is in this situation.
Posted by Deb R on February 3, 2000, at 0:11:28
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation...thanks, posted by Adam on February 2, 2000, at 23:22:22
Hi Adam
I think you mentioned in your initial post that you have a little niece? So, it follows a brother or sister of yours has had a child...what about talking with he/she about how they felt etc. My Mum is Schizophrenic and I have three kids of my own. Very, very occasionally I think "what if" but I have great faith that the environment kids are bought up in can far outweigh any genetic pre-dispositon to (say) Schizophrenia.
My kids are great, well-adjusted young people. Sometimes they are regular horrors too, but thats part of the whole deal, which makes up "my best work" - my children...I wish you all the best in the future!
Deb.
Posted by Adam on February 5, 2000, at 13:11:30
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation - Adam, posted by Deb R on February 3, 2000, at 0:11:28
Thanks for your words, Deb.
The sad truth is the birth of my neice was totally unplanned, and
my brother was completely unprepared at the time to have a child.
I won't go into the details of his life or troubles. It sounds like
a terrible thing to say, but when I first found out about the
pregnancy (I had to find out through my sister b/c he was too terrified
to tell anyone, esp. my father) I was horrified. The thought of him
bringing a child into the world filled me with dismay. Obviously, it
was as much depression talking at that point as the reality of his
life, and I did have a tendancey to catastrophise (is that a word?).
Anyway, things turned out better than I had feared they would, my
brother and his girlfriend finally got married a little while ago, and
my neice is a little angel.In a way, having the responsibility of another life to keep him on the
straight and narrow has done more to help my brother than anything else
I can think of, but there are still a number of things that he says and
does that fill me with a lot of anxiety and concern for her future.
But she is a very happy-seeming toddler right now, and I'm hoping like
crazy that everything turns out all right.I don't know how else to say it: My family is a mess in a number of ways,
and I fear sometimes it always will be. If there is one good thing that
came out of the death of my mother, a severly depressed person herself, it
has been the opportunity to have formed a relationship with my stepmother,
which, bless her, is probably the best thing that ever happened to me in
the realm of family. How she puts up with my dad I will never know, but I
am grateful for her presence in my life. I think she has had a lot to do
with the success my brother has had so far.It's a scary thing. The generation before me grew up in a mill town in the
hills of Maine, all sons and daughters of French-Canadian immigrants who
seem to have been fleeing something. Alcoholism, abuse, other clear signs
of mental illness are everywhere you look. Some distant relatives have
committed suicide. One of my hardest memories was being left alone after
my mother's death at my maternal grandparent's house. My grandfather came
home in a drunken rage and went after my grandmother who had to fend him off
with a knife. I mean, it's a horror show sometimes. My father used to smack
me silly when I got out of line myself, and I guess he got pummelled as a
kid worse than I ever dreamed of getting.It's not the greatest heritage. I look back at it all, and, not to pat
myself on the back too hard, but I don't know where the hell I came from. I
am the only person in the last three generations to complete a college degree,
I am the only person I know of to have recieved successful treatment for
depression, the only person to have left Maine. And I did it all pretty much
by myself. Someone grudginly paid my way through school, but that's it. I
have glimmers of hope sometimes that I can somehow free myself of some
inexorable fate or some inevitable replay of my family history, but I'm
really afraid at times that some things are just too much out of my control,
such as genes, which I can't imagine haven't contributed to the troubles of
my family.I've often thought it was my responsibility to society not to allow even the
risk of such a replay to occur. Of course, that comes at the cost of my own
future relationships and perhaps happiness. Are such sacrifices warrented?
Do I dare presume that I can break the chain in any other way than being
the last link?These are the thoughts that keep me up at night, sometimes. I don't think any
antidepressant can cure this stuff. I wonder if anything can.> Hi Adam
> I think you mentioned in your initial post that you have a little niece? So, it follows a brother or sister of yours has had a child...what about talking with he/she about how they felt etc. My Mum is Schizophrenic and I have three kids of my own. Very, very occasionally I think "what if" but I have great faith that the environment kids are bought up in can far outweigh any genetic pre-dispositon to (say) Schizophrenia.
> My kids are great, well-adjusted young people. Sometimes they are regular horrors too, but thats part of the whole deal, which makes up "my best work" - my children...
>
> I wish you all the best in the future!
> Deb.
Posted by Noa on February 5, 2000, at 15:19:46
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation - Deb, posted by Adam on February 5, 2000, at 13:11:30
Wow, Adam.
Reading about your family history reminds me of how much interplay there is between biological heritage and experience. For you, you are not only the first to address the biological problems and try to address them appropriately, but you have also made life decisions that change the patterns of experience. That has to make a difference in the outcome of future generations.
I just started reading Cider House Rules, and your history reminded me of the setting. The book opens with a description of how the logging town evolved into a mill town, and how the welfare of the town was basically at the whim of the company the set it up. Sociologically, these conditions have to be bad news for how life evolves for the residents. It reminds me of something medieval--serfdom or something.
I guess there is also the question of genetic isolation--which affects my ethnic group too (Eastern European Jews).
The bottom line is, you have broken patterns and that is a plus. Of course, we all still need to be alert and ready for intervention if needed, but it seems there is reason to be hopeful that our progeny need not be doomed.
Posted by Adam on February 5, 2000, at 18:55:46
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation - Deb, posted by Noa on February 5, 2000, at 15:19:46
I've read that book also, a long, long time ago. If Irving captures anything well, it is a picture of blue-collar despair.
If I understand the history of my ancestors, they left Canada to look for a better living, pretty much. Ironically, they found some of the same problems here: Being treated like second-class citizens by an Anglo aristocracy of sorts, at home the insurgents, here the establishment. Of course any francophone heritage has been so diluted by now nobody notices, and the mill has changed hands many times since the turn of the century. I never lived in that town, which these days is about as depressed economcally as any part of the state, and has a perpetual, sulfurous stink hanging over it.
My mother and grandmother died of cancer. So have many others on that side of the family. The cancer rate in that town is two or three times higher than the national average. In the old days, I guess, there were rooms in the mill where heavy metals were used in huge electrolytic tanks to extract chlorine from salt solutions. They wouldn't let you work in there if you planned to have children. Half the old men are deaf from the machinery. There's mercury in the water and in the fish, as well as PCBs and who knows what else. White houses turn yellow in two or three years after painting. Alcoholism, spousal abuse, a suprisingly robust drug trade for such a rural venue, poverty. Serfdom indeed.
Funny how, having watched a parent die of cancer pretty much before my eyes, depression scares me worse.
And the mere thought of living in that awful town.
> Wow, Adam.
>
> Reading about your family history reminds me of how much interplay there is between biological heritage and experience. For you, you are not only the first to address the biological problems and try to address them appropriately, but you have also made life decisions that change the patterns of experience. That has to make a difference in the outcome of future generations.
>
> I just started reading Cider House Rules, and your history reminded me of the setting. The book opens with a description of how the logging town evolved into a mill town, and how the welfare of the town was basically at the whim of the company the set it up. Sociologically, these conditions have to be bad news for how life evolves for the residents. It reminds me of something medieval--serfdom or something.
>
> I guess there is also the question of genetic isolation--which affects my ethnic group too (Eastern European Jews).
>
> The bottom line is, you have broken patterns and that is a plus. Of course, we all still need to be alert and ready for intervention if needed, but it seems there is reason to be hopeful that our progeny need not be doomed.
Posted by Deb R on February 6, 2000, at 22:28:55
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation - Deb, posted by Adam on February 5, 2000, at 13:11:30
Hi Adam,
A few thoughts in response to your post...> In a way, having the responsibility of another life to keep him on the
> straight and narrow has done more to help my brother than anything elseI wish my Sister had a child/children, as it would encourage her to focus on someone other than herself. That sounds harsh I know, but it is the truth as I see it.
> I don't know how else to say it: My family is a mess in a number of ways,
> and I fear sometimes it always will be.I understand your fears as I have them too, funnily enough not with my kids, but with my siblings and Mum.
>I mean, it's a horror show sometimes. My father used to smack
> me silly when I got out of line myself, and I guess he got pummelled as a
> kid worse than I ever dreamed of getting.I also witnessed many horrors, my father beating my Mother, his alcoholism, us kids getting slapped around. My father seemed to get some sort of pleasure out of making us cry, then hugging us to make it all better....very confusing for a child to have the person that smacks you around, then hugging you. Bizarre to say the least.
> It's not the greatest heritage. I look back at it all, and, not to pat
> myself on the back too hard, but I don't know where the hell I came from.I guess it is not a family history we would choose given the choice, but I do know I am happy to be here...if I was where you are now, I would pat you on the back, you are a survivor and a fighter and they are great gifts Adam. You can pass on those gifts, and more, if you decide to have kids one day.
> I've often thought it was my responsibility to society not to allow even the
> risk of such a replay to occur. Of course, that comes at the cost of my own
> future relationships and perhaps happiness.I guess you could be a bit clinical here and weigh up those risks 'percentage-wise'. We take risks every day just crossing the road, or driving a car. I have an irrational fear of flying and someone pointed out to me that 'percentage-wise' I have more chance of being kicked in the head by a donkey in my backyard, than I have of being killed whilst flying in a plane. I guess that sounds a bit flippant, and it is certainly different than a decision to have children.
> Do I dare presume that I can break the chain in any other way than being
> the last link?Yes, if that is what you want to do. The chain of your ancestry can also grow stronger with your children - you could add a few links!
> These are the thoughts that keep me up at night, sometimes. I don't think any
> antidepressant can cure this stuff. I wonder if anything can.I guess I sound very 'pro' kids don't I. Hope I don't sound as though I am preaching or something Adam. I just want you to know that I am glad I have children and that it has worked out for someone like me, with a similar family history as yours.
Deb.
Posted by Noa on February 6, 2000, at 22:51:57
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation..., posted by Deb R on February 6, 2000, at 22:28:55
> My father seemed to get some sort of pleasure out of making us cry, then hugging us to make it all better....very confusing for a child to have the person that smacks you around, then hugging you.
Interestingly, this sort of mixed message interaction used to be thought of as the *cause* of schizophrenia and autism!!
Posted by dove on February 7, 2000, at 8:56:55
In reply to Re: Depression and procreation..., posted by Noa on February 6, 2000, at 22:51:57
> > My father seemed to get some sort of pleasure out of making us cry, then hugging us to make it all better....very confusing for a child to have the person that smacks you around, then hugging you.
We all must be related or something. I identify with everything said in this thread so far. My father had the art of love-hate perfected. Screaming and yelling, smashing things, and the tearful repentance, utter hatred for himself, laying on the floor a completely broken man. There are at least three generations before him that functioned in the same manner. BUT, not everyone has the high-wire temperment, most don't. I carry the same temperment profile, and often I have to shut myself in a dark corner and let the pain and frustration pour out until I'm spent. And then, go back to being "mom". My kids ask me why I'm so sad, or why I can't have the lights on, and I feel so ashamed. I try to be honest, but I can't be completely honest because I know it's not their responsibility, nor is it their burden to carry. I cannot load them with all that, yet I cannot bear it alone.
So, again, there are some very serious questions to ask oneself. A real critical appraisal of the responsibility required to rear children needs to be done. The burden is heavy and scary, at least for me. On the positive side, children can cause a person to grow, reaching heights that were never imagined possible. At the end of the day you will find yourself empty, but the strength to keep going miraculously appears through the guise of a child's beautiful face. Nothing on this earth has taught me more than my children, honestly. And, nothing could have pressed me to seek help aside from them.
Adam, you are so incredibly thoughtful, you dig for the truth, you want to do the right thing. That counts so much in the specialty of parenthood. Follow your heart, even if that means saying no. Children are a precious gift, but that only makes the decision that much harder.
dove
Posted by Diane on February 8, 2000, at 10:55:04
In reply to Depression and procreation..., posted by Adam on January 31, 2000, at 0:33:03
ADOPT. Adoption is the way to go.
I never had kids. And fear of passing on my depression was one of the main reasons why. My dad is a depressed, abusive, alcoholic... His mother was hospitalized and underwent ECT numerous times over many years. I've had trouble sense I was 11yrs
old. My Mother is depressed also. Both of them tho are against most all drugs, "mind altering" in particular.That includes anti-depressants.
I personally wouldn't take the risk of passing it on. It would be selfish if I did, in my opinion.
I don't care what researchers say or don't say I would not risk passing it on either hard wired genetically or unconsciously in my behavior. I'm not into taking risks with someone elses life.In my opinion if you are not 100% together (financially, physically, emotionally...) you do not have any right bringing kids into the world. NONE! In my opinion.
How women/people who are drug users, on welfare, or are in abusive/destructive situations or are of genetic risk can clear getting pregnant with their conscious is _beyond me. It's disgusting.
I've known a few knocked up heroin addicts in my time. And ain't nothing sicker than seeing a hugely pregnant addict cooking up her dope, tying herself off, slamming it and nodding off. GROSS.
Or a pregnant speed freak snorting her lines.
People like that should be castrated.Religious freaks are also disgustiing. They don't believe in abortion/contraception!
Hell don't they feel it's a SIN to bring a child into the world that you can not afford to properly care for. How can they not?
Because you forgot to use a condom last time... because YOU made a mistake... A child has to suffer. That's crazy, in my opinion.> But my own flesh and blood? It almost feels immoral.
Don't be so shallow and self-centered. That's inane reasoning. Come on... get real! ADOPT !!!
It's amazing the myriad of reasons people have for procreating. I'm sure you've heard em.
My favorite was from a wife of a friend (they already had 3) "I just love dressing them in their little clothes"
Well the kid died at 18 months after she got tired of caring for him and sluft him off on the 3 girls, whom ever sense I've known them were chronically sick with colds/bronchitis you name it. And sense he lived/slept in the 3 girls room he also
came down sick and died one night (Christmas day, no less). It took all my effort to keep my mouth shut. I wanted to hit that bitch so bad I had to walk away for a year.Women who take fertility drugs and have litters of kids have big mental problems in my view/opinion. Same for women who go thru numerous artifical inseminations just to have their own flesh and blood kid. What's the driving force behind that?
Why wouldn't ADOPTING a child suffice ?????Having a child, whether adopted or not is an awesome responsibility. Are you up to it. I mean REALLY up to it. What have you got to offer a child?
There are too many people on the planet already
.
"Since 1960 the population of the Earth has doubled from 3 billion to 6 billion."http://www.zpg.org/ Zero Population Growth
Teen Pregnancy
11/5/1999In the U.S., 20% of teen age girls become
pregnant within one month after becoming
sexually active.
Did you know?
6/25/1999Half of all the married women in the world of
child bearing age do not have access to
modern contraceptives.
Y6B
6/14/1999The UN projects that the population of the Earth
will reach 6 billion on October 12, 1999. That is
up 1 billion since 1987.
Water and Population**
6/1/1999According to the Worldwatch Institute, the
amount of water available per person from the
hydrological cycle (evaporation and rain) will fall
by 73 percent between 1950 and 2050, as a
result of population growth.
Women and Education**
5/27/1999In every country for which there are data, the
more education a woman has, the fewer
children she chooses to bear.
City Growth**
5/24/1999The number of people living in cities fifty years
from now will be 6.2 billion--that's more than the
entire population of the world today.
Job Market***
5/21/1999The U.N. estimates that 1 billion people (1/3 of
the global work force) is unemployed or
underemployed (working, but not earning
enough to meet basic needs).
Farm land disappears**
5/18/1999According to the U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, since
1970 the U.S. has lost an average of 1,000,000
acres of farm land *every year* to urban and
suburban sprawl.
If you want to bring up children_ if you have the time and the inclination ..ADOPT.Or do what my husband did....he got us a cat (a stray). The Runt.
To date I've neutered/vaccinated/wormed/bathed 18 strays. I take them over to Safe Haven (adoption services) where they do not kill them.Side note:
Here in this small town I've never seen more dogs chained and staked and left 24hrs a day in the rain, snow and freezing winds. It's disgusting. Or hounds in cages all year long until the next hunting season. Sick. Point? Here we got people who can't
even take proper care of a pet, who don't _care enough_ to take proper care of a pet, having children!
It doesn't jive.
Sorry for going far afield here but it's an emotional subject with me. Like I said above having/raising a child is serious stuff!
How people can take it so lightly angers me to no end. I don't understand it. :o(The older I get, the more I experience, the more I can't stand the human race. I've never been a people person (in HS I wanted to grow up and be a hermit, no kidding) but I'm worse now than ever. I have lost most of my hope so keep that in mind when
reading my posts.
Tho I mean and feel every bloody word I say!Why wouldn't ADOPTING a child suffice ?????
BiPolar and Heritity
http://bipolar.about.com/health/bipolar/msubgene.htmEnough ranting... :o)
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Script revised: February 4, 2008
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