![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 47. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 20:07:27
My Mom recently broke her wrist. Being in a hospital brought up some strange desires in me. I feel like I need to know and understand every single detail of what happened to me when I ODed. I want to remember every single little detail of what happened to me in the hospital. I feel like I want to re-create my OD to see what will happen this time.
The hospital my Mom went to was very very busy. I want to see if there are differences in treatment depending on which hospital one goes to. I want to see what will happen to me if I take more than I did last time. I want to see if I will be saved or not. I don't know why I want to do this. I need to know exactly what happned to me. I feel like doing it over again just to remember more details. This is a very stupid and irrational thing to think...I don't know why I want to do this. I don't think I want to die...I think I want to risk my life to do an experiment.
I want to see what will happen if I take more, maybe mix in 2 extra drugs and not tell anyone. Will the doctors there be smart enough to make a correct diagnosis? I feel like testing the system to see if it works.
This is not good...I'm pretty sure I won't die and this makes me more bold. I know I won't die if I do this. I feel like doing this, but I don't want to end up in the psych ward again. I don't want to be a human pin cushion again...I'm afraid of needles. What is the matter with me? I want to go out tomorrow to get the drugs needed for my cocktail. I need to understand exactly what happens to me when I OD...I feel like I need to know everything...all the lab test results etc., to make sense of it all...to analyse it. Do I make sense?
Deneb (jenny) u's 2b Shy_Girl
Posted by TamaraJ on May 26, 2005, at 20:55:08
In reply to I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger*, posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 20:07:27
I will be blunt - No it does not make sense, it does not make sense at all. I can understand, perhaps, your need or desire to understand what happened to you, what your previous overdose did to your system, and what tests and treatments you required when your were hospitalized, but the need to recreate the experience is not healthy IMO. You would be playing a dangerous game, kind of like a russian roulette with pills. And, although you say you are pretty sure you won't die, you may not be completely aware of the damage that could be inflicted on your body. Jenny, please don't play around with your life. It is not worth it.
Tamara
> My Mom recently broke her wrist. Being in a hospital brought up some strange desires in me. I feel like I need to know and understand every single detail of what happened to me when I ODed. I want to remember every single little detail of what happened to me in the hospital. I feel like I want to re-create my OD to see what will happen this time.
>
> The hospital my Mom went to was very very busy. I want to see if there are differences in treatment depending on which hospital one goes to. I want to see what will happen to me if I take more than I did last time. I want to see if I will be saved or not. I don't know why I want to do this. I need to know exactly what happned to me. I feel like doing it over again just to remember more details. This is a very stupid and irrational thing to think...I don't know why I want to do this. I don't think I want to die...I think I want to risk my life to do an experiment.
>
> I want to see what will happen if I take more, maybe mix in 2 extra drugs and not tell anyone. Will the doctors there be smart enough to make a correct diagnosis? I feel like testing the system to see if it works.
>
> This is not good...I'm pretty sure I won't die and this makes me more bold. I know I won't die if I do this. I feel like doing this, but I don't want to end up in the psych ward again. I don't want to be a human pin cushion again...I'm afraid of needles. What is the matter with me? I want to go out tomorrow to get the drugs needed for my cocktail. I need to understand exactly what happens to me when I OD...I feel like I need to know everything...all the lab test results etc., to make sense of it all...to analyse it. Do I make sense?
>
> Deneb (jenny) u's 2b Shy_Girl
Posted by alexandra_k on May 26, 2005, at 21:13:33
In reply to I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger*, posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 20:07:27
I think...
I get what you mean.
Because you don't really care.
You don't really care if you live or die
Part of you wants to live
But part of you wants to die
So why not fool around and leave it in the hands of the fates
And if it is meant to be then it will happen...That was my thinking for a while.
I would say...
That you need to reflect on the worst case scenario.
The worst case isn't death
It isn't life
Its having to live with some kind of self imposed disability that you got in fooling around.
For someone (probably your mother) to have to look after you because of your self inflicted disability.You could get kidney failure.
Theres lots that could happen.
With hanging there is the possibility of brain damage.
I jumped.
Shattered my feet.
I live with the pain of that now.
Its only been since then that I've snapped out of that mindset
Of playing around with pills.It doesn't occur to me anymore...
But I wish I could have snapped out of it by imagining one of those worst cases
Rather than having to live it...
Posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 23:40:02
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Deneb, posted by TamaraJ on May 26, 2005, at 20:55:08
> I will be blunt - No it does not make sense, it does not make sense at all.
I know, what the heck is wrong with me??
>You would be playing a dangerous game, kind of like a russian roulette with pills.
****Extreme Tigger Follows****
***
**
*I think I would like to play Russian Roulette. It sounds fun and exciting to me. I often imagine myself holding a gun to my head and pulling the trigger. This calms me down for some reason. I often like to imagine myself holding two guns to my head and pulling the two triggers at exactly the same time. The bullets would met and explode in the middle of my brain. If I had a real gun, I'm almost certain that I would hold it to my head for fun and thrills.
>And, although you say you are pretty sure you won't die, you may not be completely aware of the damage that could be inflicted on your body.
You're right, I'm not completely aware of the damage that I could inflict upon my body. Can someone tell me what they could be?
Deneb (jenny) u's 2b Shy_Girl
Posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 23:57:43
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on May 26, 2005, at 21:13:33
> So why not fool around and leave it in the hands of the fates
> And if it is meant to be then it will happen...I don't know why I can't stop thinking these horrible things to do to myself. Maybe I want to control my life, maybe I want to manipulate situations and I'm not very good at it. (I hope my limited insight can help others with their problems.)
> The worst case isn't death
> It isn't life
> Its having to live with some kind of self imposed disability that you got in fooling around.
> For someone (probably your mother) to have to look after you because of your self inflicted disability.****Extreme Trigger Follows****
***
**
*If that happened to me I would probably have to kill myself.
> Its only been since then that I've snapped out of that mindset
> Of playing around with pills.I don't know why I am playing "games." My p-doc told me that overdosing and going to the hospital is not a "game" and that it really hurts other people when I do that. I'm not 100% sure what she means...Does she mean that the people in the hospital get upset because I overdosed? I hope people don't think that I was only playing a cruel game on other people. If I were only playing a game, couldn't I have choosen a less risky game to play?...one that involves less suffering? Arrgh...I'm seriously confused right now. I'm not sure what I am saying anymore. I just have an urge to OD again and I'm not sure why.
> It doesn't occur to me anymore...
> But I wish I could have snapped out of it by imagining one of those worst cases
> Rather than having to live it...Maybe this is all a dream...it doesn't matter what I do, I will wake up from it. I can do anything I want to. If I think I am wrong, I can kill myself and wake up again. Meanwhile I can have lots of fun.
jenny
Posted by alexandra_k on May 27, 2005, at 0:08:29
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 23:57:43
> If that happened to me I would probably have to kill myself.
If you are lucky enough to be still able to do that.
Of course, you wouldn't be able to if you managed to turn yourself into a vegetable. Or got severely brain damaged or whatever.You know, it isn't as easy to kill yourself as you might think.
Firstly it is terrifying.
Secondly bodies are fairly resilient.> I don't know why I am playing "games."
My thought on that was that you just didn't really care whether you live or die. I don't know. Thats just how I used to feel I guess. I still feel that way a lot. But I don't have urges to hurt myself anymore.
>My p-doc told me that overdosing and going to the hospital is not a "game" and that it really hurts other people when I do that. I'm not 100% sure what she means...Does she mean that the people in the hospital get upset because I overdosed?
F*ck the people in hospital.
I think that your mother
Your sister
Would be pretty upset.>I just have an urge to OD again and I'm not sure why.
Maybe you just want the horrible feelings to stop.
Is that it?
> Maybe this is all a dream...it doesn't matter what I do, I will wake up from it. I can do anything I want to. If I think I am wrong, I can kill myself and wake up again. Meanwhile I can have lots of fun.But if you are wrong
And it isn't a dream
And you end up disabled
Then you might just be stuck with that
Unable to end it
Other people having to look after you.
Is it worth that risk???
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 0:29:00
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on May 27, 2005, at 0:08:29
> You know, it isn't as easy to kill yourself as you might think.
> Firstly it is terrifying.
> Secondly bodies are fairly resilient.I've read this also.
> But I don't have urges to hurt myself anymore.
I think I like my urges.
> >I just have an urge to OD again and I'm not sure why.
>
> Maybe you just want the horrible feelings to stop.
> Is that it?I feel bad again. I don't know what to do. I don't like this. I don't think I'm sad, or angry...I just feel bad. I don't know. Bad, bad, bad...sorry I can't be more descriptive.
****Trigger follows
***
**
*I think I might take just a small OD to make me feel better. I can't do anything major cuz my Mom is home all the time now that she can't work because of the broken wrist.
I feel bad. Very bad. I don't know what to do. Bad, bad, bad...I just do. I don't like this. :-(
Posted by alexandra_k on May 27, 2005, at 0:40:15
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger*, posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 0:29:00
> I think I like my urges.
Perhaps what you like about them is that if you act on them then they do seem to work (temporarily) to stop the bad feelings.
There are other ways you can go about this. Ways that don't risk harm to yourself - ways that wouldn't be upsetting to your mother or sister if they found out about them.
I think you need to talk to your p-doc about how you feel sometimes. I know it is really really hard to describe. To put into words. But she should be able to help you figure out some alternatives for when you feel like this and the urges get bad.
Is your p-doc away still???
Can you see a councellor or therapist or anything like that???
Can you go down and see your mum?
Bake a cake?
Watch some tv?(((Shygirl)))
OD's aren't the answer.
In the long run they become part of the problem...
Posted by sunny10 on May 27, 2005, at 9:34:13
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on May 27, 2005, at 0:40:15
I still think that you like to test your own limitations more than you like the idea of death.
My perceptions of your posts are always that you want to test the system, test yourself, fly in the face of danger, et cetera.
Sounds, to me, like you are an adrenaline junkie, sweetie! It is an enormous "high" to think about how daring you could be.
Rather than spending your money on pills for a "cocktail", why don't you sign on to an adventure vacation instead? You know, kayacking on a white-water river, hang-gliding, bungee-jumping, schooner sailing, stuff like that?
I think it would help you get the adrenaline "high" you seek as well as the adventuresome side of you being assauged.
Do you think I might be a teeny bit correct? That you maybe feel like life is just too monotonous and then when you do something "big", it only winds up creating negative feelings?
Life seems like it is nothing but boredom, hard work and heartache to me- and I don't even LIKE big excitements or testing myself the way you seem to....I've been known to make stupid assumptions based on my perceptions... please don't take this personally if I am Waaaaaay off here....
Posted by JenStar on May 27, 2005, at 10:17:12
In reply to I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger*, posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 20:07:27
hi Deneb,
you asked if it all makes sense - I think it DOES, sort of, if you dig down & find out what's going on. Here's my thoughts on your situation, and I apologize in advance if they are all off the mark!It sounds like you want to be cared for, period. You want someone to see that you're in trouble, and be smart, compassionate & quick enough to save you from everything including yourself. You have a desire to end up in the hospital again so that you can be totally taken care of from head to toe, with people fussing over you and making you job#1, the most important thing to deal with.
I think that you don't really want to hurt yourself, you're just crying out for attention & help. You need someone to baby you, care for you, soothe you. And THAT is understandable, and THAT makes sense.
I just hope you don't take the drugs and actually end up in the hospital. There would be a lot of negatives, like you said. First, you could actually die. Second, you could get admittited to psych again. Third, you'd be doing something you really don't want.
Is there another way you could baby yourself, take care of yourself, without doing damage? Is there a person who could give you some attention & loving? How about your parenst -- could you say, "Mom, I really need some TLC. I'm in a bad place. Can I come over and bring you flowers for your wrist, and then just get some hugs, and sleep on your couch while drinking tea and watching bad daytime television?" Maybe just being around fun people would help.
And here's another thought. If you can't go to your Mom's, how about volunteering at a local soup kitchen, shelter, or women's halfway home? Sometimes volunteering brings out strong instincts and feelings of strength and love, and also makes us realize how good we have it after all. That's actually helped me before.
In any case, here's a bit of TLC for you over the web. ((((((deneb)))))
Don't take the drugs!
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on May 27, 2005, at 10:26:09
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger*, posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 0:29:00
Deneb,
you really need to find another outlet for your anxiety, depression and fearful obsessive thoughts. Doing OD's and SI is not the answer, will not help, and will only make you weaker and less able to cope down the road.You NEED professional help. Period. If you're not seeing a T now, get one immediately. You do not have the ability to handle your feelings of stress! If you really, really think you need to hurt yourself, then to to the hospital (without taking the OD) and ask for help. You don't deserve this, and neither does your mom with her broken wrist. Think of what a mess it would be for HER if you end up OD'd and strung out! (If you won't think of yourself, think of others, right?)
Now this will be easy to SAY and harder to DO, but here are things to do instead of SI or OD: Run, jog, bike. Go for a walk, walking hard, for 2-3 miles. Clean the house from top to bottom. Scrub the toilets, wash the windows, vaccum every corner, mop the floor, iron all the clothes. Get rid of your energy through work. Ask your MOm what you can do to help her out, then do it. Go grocery shopping. Shine the shoes.
You have a ton of negative energy stored up in you, and you need to get it out somehow. A lot of times, work and exercise are great ways to help drive down depression and anxiety, even if it's only temporary.
Of course, as I said, only do that route (work /exercise) if you're "safe" enough. If you're REALLY going to hurt yourself, you need professional help pronto.
If you hurt yourself, you're hurting your future, too.
Be kind to yourself. There are better ways.
Keep us updated.JenStar
Posted by JenStar on May 27, 2005, at 10:34:07
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 23:57:43
Deneb,
yes, people in the hospital DO get mad when OD patients come in. First of all, it's a waste of life (your life). Second, they might have critical patients who need life-saving operations & help, people who didn't inflict pain on themselves. If they are taking care of OD patients, it takes time away from the cancer patients, accident victims, shooting victims, and other people who did not CHOOSE to get hurt.Of course, if you do OD, you should still go to the hospital!!! But your actions to impact others in a big way.
And it hurts your family too. They will wonder what they did wrong. They will feel like failures, like losers. They will worry about the negative stigma for your future, and for them too. They will always think it was their fault. They will never forget it.
And it affects YOU the most -- you could end up with severe kidney damage, liver damage, heart damage, or brain damage. Would you like to be retarded the rest of your life? I wouldn't. I sure wouldn't! But if you OD on drugs, you can really mess yourself up!
So when you OD, there are lots of people affected. It's a selfish thing to do, really.
So don't do it. Find another way to help yourself out, ok? You're a cool person and an interesting person, and drugs and OD's are not the right answer for you.
Talk to you T and get some other ideas. OK?
(((deneb))))I'm thinking of you fondly & hoping you don't hurt yourself!
JenStar
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 11:56:11
In reply to Re: Deneb, posted by sunny10 on May 27, 2005, at 9:34:13
> I still think that you like to test your own limitations more than you like the idea of death.
I don't know what I want. I must admit that I probably don't have as much insight as it seems. All the insightful things I've written about myself either come from my p-doc or from things I've read on-line about BPD. I can't take credit for any of it. I just repeat what they say. I don't know if I really understand it.
I do know that I don't want to do bad things to myself when I'm happy and hopeful.
> My perceptions of your posts are always that you want to test the system, test yourself, fly in the face of danger, et cetera.
I think I want to do those things as part of the fantasy world I live in. In reality I'm quite the wimp.
> Sounds, to me, like you are an adrenaline junkie, sweetie! It is an enormous "high" to think about how daring you could be.
I do get a "high" from *imagining* those things. I'm pretty sure I won't be able to do them in real life.
> Rather than spending your money on pills for a "cocktail", why don't you sign on to an adventure vacation instead? You know, kayacking on a white-water river, hang-gliding, bungee-jumping, schooner sailing, stuff like that?Sounds really fun...but it could never happen for me. I'm too unmotivated to do anything much.
When I first got really suicidal back in highschool, the guidance counsellor broke confidence and told my parents. I then took a trip with my older cousins to Toronto...I think they thought it would help me. I was really messed up then...I was really really happy sometimes, really happy and suicidal at the same time, sad and suicidal, angry and suicidal etc. I went to Toronto in good spirits, but I think it was too much stress. My cousins introduced me to wine. I tried to climb the suicide barrier at the CN Tower. I cut myself, I almost took an overdose of Ativan (my mom's). I was messed up and homesick.
I think it is a good thing that I cannot make it to the Babble Party this year...I'm still to messed up right now and I don't want to make a fool of myself.
> I think it would help you get the adrenaline "high" you seek as well as the adventuresome side of you being assauged.
I don't know. It might be too much stress for me to experience an "adventure" right now. Then again, who knows who the heck I am anymore? You could be right. I don't know.
Thank-you sunny10
Deneb (u's 2b Shy_Girl ...aka TriggerGirl :-( )
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 12:16:39
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Deneb, posted by JenStar on May 27, 2005, at 10:17:12
> It sounds like you want to be cared for, period. You want someone to see that you're in trouble, and be smart, compassionate & quick enough to save you from everything including yourself.
I don't know...you could be right, I'm not sure. My p-doc told me that she couldn't "save" me. I know that. I didn't expect her to "save" me. I'm happy that she agrees with me that it is entirely my choice whether or not to kill myself. She respects my autonomy. I don't expect my family to "save" me either. I don't let them know anything about this side of me. They still do not suspect anything...they don't know about anything, the ODs besides the one that landed me in the hospital, the rope, the calls to the Distress Centre, my appt's etc.
When I ODed, I tried to escape from the hosptial. I refused to take the ambulance but they forced me to. I pulled off my IV line (what a bloody mess) and unhooked myself from the monitors and tried to escape. The nurse threatened me with restraints. I really didn't want any treatment. I don't know why I would want to go through that again. I didn't think my situation was very serious. I still don't. I would have survived.
> I think that you don't really want to hurt yourself, you're just crying out for attention & help. You need someone to baby you, care for you, soothe you. And THAT is understandable, and THAT makes sense.Maybe you're right. I don't know. :-(
My hamster and plush animals soothe me sometimes. I love my hamster, he is soooo soft and cute.
> I just hope you don't take the drugs and actually end up in the hospital. There would be a lot of negatives, like you said. First, you could actually die. Second, you could get admittited to psych again. Third, you'd be doing something you really don't want.Russian Roulette :-(
I'm unlikely to take a serious OD because my Mom is home all the time now. It was really embarrassing to have my whole extended family know about my hospital stay. I wish I lived alone.
> Is there another way you could baby yourself, take care of yourself, without doing damage? Is there a person who could give you some attention & loving? How about your parenst -- could you say, "Mom, I really need some TLC. I'm in a bad place. Can I come over and bring you flowers for your wrist, and then just get some hugs, and sleep on your couch while drinking tea and watching bad daytime television?" Maybe just being around fun people would help.I don't deserve my Mom's love...plus we are not a very affectionate family. I guess we are a bit dysfunctional...I don't know, maybe it's a culture thing. I just want to disappear for a little while...I wish time could stop for the world, then I could do anything I wanted.
> And here's another thought. If you can't go to your Mom's, how about volunteering at a local soup kitchen, shelter, or women's halfway home? Sometimes volunteering brings out strong instincts and feelings of strength and love, and also makes us realize how good we have it after all. That's actually helped me before.I'm too chicken to do any of those things. I'm afraid to talk to people I don't know. I don't know if I'm capable of love.
> In any case, here's a bit of TLC for you over the web. ((((((deneb)))))
>
> Don't take the drugs!Thank-you JenStar for caring
Deneb (u's 2b Shy_Girl)
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 12:45:42
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Deneb, posted by JenStar on May 27, 2005, at 10:26:09
My p-doc is on maternity leave. She was like a T. I'm not a student right now so I can't see a T at the university health centre. I don't have money to see a T. I made an appt. with my family doctor for Weds. I want to see if she will give me a med to put me out of my misery.
> If you really, really think you need to hurt yourself, then to to the hospital (without taking the OD) and ask for help.
That would be a silly thing for me to do. I would end up waiting something like 5 or more hours just to have a doctor tell me to make an appt. with my family doc or something. What can going to the hospital do? If I can wait in the hospital for so long without hurting myself, it really isn't an emergency then is it? I saw someone who had to be carried into the emergency department and he had to wait for hours. I wonder why this particular hospital makes people wait for so long...when I went to the hospital, I was seen really quickly and hooked up to monitors. I didn't see any monitors in the emergency room at this hospital. The whole set up was different...people weren't even on beds. There were no beds surrounding a central "hub" with doctors and nurses. Was I in a different part of the emergency department when I ODed?
> Now this will be easy to SAY and harder to DO, but here are things to do instead of SI or OD: Run, jog, bike. Go for a walk, walking hard, for 2-3 miles. Clean the house from top to bottom. Scrub the toilets, wash the windows, vaccum every corner, mop the floor, iron all the clothes. Get rid of your energy through work. Ask your MOm what you can do to help her out, then do it. Go grocery shopping. Shine the shoes.
When I call the Distress Centre, that is always what they tell me to do...they tell me to go exercise.
> You have a ton of negative energy stored up in you, and you need to get it out somehow. A lot of times, work and exercise are great ways to help drive down depression and anxiety, even if it's only temporary.
I will try to do some running today...or perhaps a more reasonable goal would be to just get out of the house.
Thank-you JenStar for helping
Deneb (used to be Shy_Girl aka TriggerGril :-( )
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 13:48:44
In reply to I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger*, posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 20:07:27
I found out what code white means...it means violent person. There must have been a lot of violent people on the psych ward one night. :-(
The ER nurse threatened to call a code on me the next time I tried to escape...would that have been a code white? I wasn't violent though. He wouldn't have really put in restraints would he? I have the right to refuse treatment. What a mean thing to do...he would have traumatized me.
Or maybe a code yellow?...for missing patient?
Are these codes universal?
Lets see,
code red is fire
Code blue is cardiac arrest
code green is evacuation
code white is violent person
code yellow is missing patient
code brown is hazardous spill
code black is bomb threat
code gray is internal disasterDeneb (u's 2b Shy_Girl)
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 27, 2005, at 18:40:28
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger*, posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 13:48:44
> The ER nurse threatened to call a code on me the next time I tried to escape...would that have been a code white?
If you were physically fighting to escape, yes. If you simply disappeared without anyone seeing, that's a missing patient. By law, the police must be notified, and you will be apprehended.
> I wasn't violent though.
You were on a 72-hour assessment, right?
> He wouldn't have really put in restraints would he?
Without doubt. It is their job.
> I have the right to refuse treatment.
The Mental Health Act over-rides your decisions. That's why I wanted you to read it closely.
Until you have passed the 72-hour hold, you have no rights. Once a doctor declares you a risk to yourself or others, you have to endure the 72-hours (unless the doctor decides to release you).
After 72-hours, if you are then declared an involuntary patient, you may then attempt to re-assert your right to self-determination. The 72-hour law is in place to permit doctors to make expedient decisions about saving you from yourself
.
> What a mean thing to do...he would have traumatized me.You OD'd. I think the trauma was an ongoing situation. Until a doctor ok's your leaving, you will be treated as per doctor's orders. Police will be called, if necessary, to restrain you.
You need to understand the law. Here's the link again:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90m07_e.htmRead Regulations 7.2 and 8.1:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Regs/English/900741_e.htmLar
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 20:34:07
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Deneb, posted by Larry Hoover on May 27, 2005, at 18:40:28
> > The ER nurse threatened to call a code on me the next time I tried to escape...would that have been a code white?
>
> If you were physically fighting to escape, yes. If you simply disappeared without anyone seeing, that's a missing patient. By law, the police must be notified, and you will be apprehended.
>
> > I wasn't violent though.
>
> You were on a 72-hour assessment, right?I hadn't actually been given notice of my assessment yet (form 42) that tells me that I was on a Form 1. They couldn't hold me when I wasn't on a Form 1 yet right?...The police can force me to go to the hospital but they can't force treatment on me.
Ok, under a Form 1:
I "can be detained, restrained, observed and examined in the facility for a maximum of 72 hours." Section 15(5)(b) MHA..."The Form 1 allows a doctor to hold you in a hospital for up to 72 hours to complete a psychiatric assessment. This assessment is to determine whether you require the care and supervision that a psychiatric hospital can provide."
However, the hospital can only detain me for the assessment...this means they cannot treat me against my will right?
Even if they can treat me against my will, they can only treat psychiatric problems and not medical problems...This means that I may not be able to leave because I might harm myself, but that if I take a fatal overdose and refuse treatment they cannot treat me for it correct? Hehe...it's pretty screwy. It's like: Ok you are forced to take ADs, but you can refuse gastric lavage because you still have the right to refuse medical treatment. Am I right or wrong? Or are you simply trying to scare me by saying I will be locked up again?
It is so unfair...unfair, unfair, unfair...all this discrimination against the "mentally ill"...the fact is there is nothing "wrong" with me. Just cuz I want to hurt myself does not mean I'm crazy. I'm not a criminal, but they can still lock me up...it's NOT fair! They're mean! Mean mean mean! They wouldn't let me cross the yellow and black line! It's not fair, I wasn't crazy.
> > He wouldn't have really put in restraints would he?
>
> Without doubt. It is their job.I hadn't been given Form 42 yet. Wouldn't they need the police to restrain me then?
If I ever, ever get restrained, I'm scream Bloody freaking murder! I'll kick and scream and rise freaking hell...that'll show them. They can't do that to me! I'll resist and they will just have to kill me.
I won't be treated that way. I'd rather die! They can't do that to me, I'm not crazy.
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 22:19:59
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Larry Hoover, posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 20:34:07
If I take Tylenol 3s with Gravol, will I throw up?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 27, 2005, at 22:34:01
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger*, posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 22:19:59
> If I take Tylenol 3s with Gravol, will I throw up?
I suspect that questions such as this one are in the realm of topics that Dr. Bob does not permit on the site. I'm uncomfortable taking this discussion in that direction, in any case.
Lar
Posted by Susan47 on May 27, 2005, at 23:08:57
In reply to I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger*, posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 20:07:27
If you do what you think you might, and OD, and don't die, but you damage your memory or your cognitive function, you might have moments of lucidity afterwards in which you'll wish you had died. THe most precious gift you could have right now would be an appreciation of your present condition. If you lose your cognitive function, you'll be either one of the walking dead (Perhaps lying in a coma), with no memory or awareness of yourself, you might be able to walk or you might have to be wheeled everywhere; at mealtimes you might have to wear a big bib, being spoon-fed like a big ugly baby. There will be very little attractive about you. You may drool. Your brain may be triggered and you may have no control over your sudden fits of heartrending sobbing, wails of despair; you may bang your head endlessly on the table, on the walls; you may soil yourself several times a day, unaware what use a toilet is to you; others will have to bathe you, dress you, and change your diapers. Your brain may be triggered to sudden violence; you may have sudden, angry, superhuman strength, lashing out and grabbing, punching, hitting others. You may be put into the time-out room over and over again; you may become fascinated by a door, standing for long minutes at a time in the same spot, trying again and again to open that door, your brain recognizes it as a door but knows not what to do with that information. You will be a big ugly baby, without the grace of old age on your side.
What a waste not to know what you have right now. Whew.
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 23:13:00
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Deneb, posted by Larry Hoover on May 27, 2005, at 22:34:01
Larry, why did you have to bring that up? I don't want to get blocked...I will be devastated. Why do you assume that my question is not permitted? What will I do when I get blocked?...I do not know, anything is possible. Please Larry, I don't want to get blocked. Please don't make Dr. Bob think my topic is not appropriate by making assumptions.
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 23:43:49
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Deneb, posted by Larry Hoover on May 27, 2005, at 22:34:01
You wrote:
>One way to view those altered states, with respect to finding solutions, is to consider them to be places you don't want to go. Like there are neighbourhoods in big cities you just don't want to enter. Recognizing the route you might take to get to one of those neighbourhoods (states of mind), you begin to see when you've begun such a journey. You can intervene. Change the route. Change where you end up.
I want to be normal again. How do I do that?
Posted by Susan47 on May 28, 2005, at 0:26:13
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on May 26, 2005, at 23:57:43
Did the doctor put you on meds? Are you taking them? Are you telling him what you're thinking? Because you probably should tell him or her, your doctor, that is. Your brain chemistry seems totally out of whack, and you seem to be aware of that but also falling into the pit ...
Posted by Susan47 on May 28, 2005, at 0:36:15
In reply to Re: I feel like doing a bad bad thing *trigger* » Larry Hoover, posted by Deneb on May 27, 2005, at 20:34:07
Something tells me you're really enjoying yourself, now. You like conflict, don't you? The more there is for you to feel you can fight against, the more energized you seem, focussed ... and a lot of what you're saying makes no sense at all.
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