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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by zenhussy on December 18, 2003, at 0:14:30
In reply to Re: thanks.. when is it over? (nm) » zenhussy, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:31:38
According to Risa D'Angeles for week December 11-17:
Hurry with those gifts before Wednesday's Mercury retro when gift buying turns into a confusing and rather untidy state of affairs. Timing is everything (meaning transits).
Wednesday(12/17), the only occurrence in the sky is Mercury retrograde, at 12 degrees Capricorn. It will remain retro till Tuesday morning, Jan. 6. Note: Business owners do not open your new businesses till after Jan. 6. The rest of us know what not to do in a Mercury retro. Don't we?
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 18, 2003, at 8:46:51
In reply to Rampant miscommunication?, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:04:30
> I'm in a weird state. It seems like all my interactions with people are creating miscommunication. A lot of it is text and email like here which I know is notorious for miscommunication, but it's happening in my face to face and phonecalls too. It seems like I can't say anything or hear anything without a misunderstanding happening. My mind is going nuts trying to figure it out-- am I suddenly not seeing things clearly? Is everyone hypersensitive this time of year? It feels like I'm in a strange dream where everything is just a bit skewed.
Tab, I've been confused in conversations with you myself, and I worked hard to figure out why. The best I can figure is that I get mixed messages, like there are mutually incompatible clusters of thoughts coming from you. It could be that the inferences I draw from what you're saying are not agreeing with the literal text.
I thought maybe it was me. But if others are reporting this, then I think that perhaps my "mixed message" theory may be valid.
Lar
Posted by lil' jimi on December 18, 2003, at 12:07:29
In reply to Rampant miscommunication?, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:04:30
hi tabby,
so it sounds a lot like the comm channels aren't like hooked up well and you are not getting the the signals synced with your communicatees ... ... kinda?
my theory about this situation is ... you have your aura spun in too tight and your chakras are closed .... this'll leave you cut off from them and they will not feel in touch with you ...
shouldn't need to open up the chakras much .... .... but that aura can work like armor when it's good and closed ... which can be a good thing ... ... but if you are needing to connect with folk, try to spin it out some ... ... even on the phone or in emails or posting ... ... spin it out enough to envelop your listener (physical distance is trivial, of course); you should be able to feel their presence... and they, yours ... then hear with your heart and speak from there ...
... hope this can help some ...
we can't wait around for mercury to return from retrograde, babe ...
take care,
~ jim
Posted by Susan J on December 18, 2003, at 12:24:34
In reply to Rampant miscommunication?, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:04:30
Hey, chica,
> It seems like I can't say anything or hear anything without a misunderstanding happening.
<<I have no wise words to offer, only that it happens to me, too. It feels like a phase to me, and the more I concentrate on it the worse it gets. But they eventually go away.Hypersensitivity: I am CERTAIN my suitemate here at work is bringing in brownies and stuff to specifically target me and make me fail at my new diet. So I can vouch for the fact at least *I* am oversensitive this time of year...
Are you doing anything differently? When I get that way at work, I try to cover myself by saying, "I might not be phrasing this right, my brain is fried, but do you....?" And at least they won't think I'm personally attacking them or whatever and it gives them a chance to clarify for me....
I dunno. The new year is almost here. I'm wishing/praying/hoping/demanding it be better for all of us. :-)
Hang in there...
Susan
Posted by tabitha on December 18, 2003, at 23:50:09
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tabitha, posted by Larry Hoover on December 18, 2003, at 8:46:51
No, nobody else is saying that.
If you're talking about what I think, what happened there was you wouldn't take me at my word. My message wasn't mixed-- it was rejected. If you won't believe a sincere statement, then there's nothing I can do to reach you.
I'm going to put on my teflon suit now and let your analysis of my faulty thought process roll off me like water.
Go in peace, Larry.
Posted by Speaker on December 18, 2003, at 23:53:44
In reply to Rampant miscommunication?, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:04:30
Tabitha,
There are days I feel like "I can't breath right". On those days (or weeks) I feel like I'm communicating exactly what I am thinking. The problem is I have six lanes of thinking in my mind and I think at times I weave in and out of the lanes and then don't understand why people can't follow :). I'm not sure there is much to do except protect yourself by just telling people upfront "I'm having a brain cramp" so if I don't follow you or you can't follow me well, the new year is coming :). I always do better with lightening the mood a bit. Hope your days get brighter soon and the traffic slows down a bit for you!
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2003, at 0:24:06
In reply to Rampant miscommunication?, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:04:30
Tabitha, if it means anything, I'm not having any trouble following you at all.
I really really hesitate to mention this, but is it possible that the group experience and your therapist's reactions to your reactions is making you feel a bit gaslighted? I think feeling like something weird is going on is a pretty natural reaction to having your perceptions... not validated? Ugh. I'm trying to be sensitive and subtle, and it's not my forte.
I guess what I'm saying is that yes, sometimes our perceptions contain distortions. But sometimes they also contain more truth than others might see. It's pretty hard to balance trusting your instincts with being open to challenging your perceptions.
Perhaps that's what's making you feel off kilter?
Posted by gabbix2 on December 19, 2003, at 1:02:50
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tabitha, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2003, at 0:24:06
Well what I think is.............................
too much E-mail, seriously it can drive you nuts.
When I wasn't working, and didn't know anyone cause I'd just moved.. and I didn't have a phone
I was in tears all the time, cause my feelings were always hurt. All I had was e-mail
It's amazing when I think about it now that I actually managed to make any e-mail
friends at all, never mind such close ones.And then, well there is therapy, most people are there cause they have *issues* right?
So of course they're going to have different and perhaps more(ahem) emphatic reactions to what you have to say. Or maybe not, I've never been to a therapy group or therapy, but I actually find groups of any sort kind of "testy"
And its that stressed out time of year..(Or do we always say that?)
There ya go.. thats what I have to say. Its a wicked feeling though. I've used this before, but
thats when I feel like Alice in Wonderland,
and that book scared me.
I just keep trying to talk, and I hear the Red Queen going
"OFF WITH HER HEAD!"
And I don't know what I did..
And then you try and turn around for some comfort
and the flowers say nasty things to you. Its awful. But it does end. Not quickly enough, but it does end.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 19, 2003, at 8:45:49
In reply to Rampant miscommunication?, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:04:30
It does seem like communication is one of the main struggles on our planet.
my heart goes out to you. I know how hard it is.I get on this board and read...I post.
When I don't get a response I think well maybe:
my post was boring
or no one likes me
or my comment was just not important
or no ones listening or.....
you see where I am going? I get lost and end up feeling badly. I spin a tighter knot and I can't get out. And that's just on my side of the communication.
It's just amazing we get across anything to one another. I think it's a miracle we communicate at all.
So what am I saying?
You are a wonderful person and I like you very much and I want to send you my caring through these words.
I care and know that your heart is true and you are sincere.Please don't stop communicating.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 19, 2003, at 10:06:16
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » Larry Hoover, posted by tabitha on December 18, 2003, at 23:50:09
> No, nobody else is saying that.
Now I'm really confused.
You said:
"It seems like all my interactions with people are creating miscommunication. A lot of it is text and email like here which I know is notorious for miscommunication, but it's happening in my face to face and phonecalls too. It seems like I can't say anything or hear anything without a misunderstanding happening."You recognize that miscommunication is occurring....people don't have to literally say that for it to be true, do they? And if it's happening in face to face communication.....then it is perfectly reasonable to raise the question of mixed messages, given the multi-mode communications taking place.
Some language styles clash.....apparently yours and mine do....but that is nobody's fault, and I would never attribute it to the other party (you implied I was saying your thinking is faulty)...
I'm unable to consider "taking you at your word" if I'm unsure of what your words mean. The latter quite precludes the former.
I regret any exacerbation of the situation, but I don't like having words put into my mouth.
Lar
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 19, 2003, at 12:37:21
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tabitha, posted by Larry Hoover on December 19, 2003, at 10:06:16
Dear Larry
<< Honestly I am a fool to step into the conflict …"but here I go"….(to quote Donkey in Shrek)
I re-read both your posts and got how you both were talking about different stuff.
I also see now how you both are hurt from this miscommunication.
>>If you won't believe a sincere statement, then there's nothing I can do to reach you. I'm going to put on my teflon suit now and let your analysis of my faulty thought process roll off me like water.
>>I regret any exacerbation of the situation, but I don't like having words put into my mouth.
**********
.>>My mind is going nuts trying to figure it out-- am I suddenly not seeing things clearly? Is everyone hypersensitive this time of year? It feels like I'm in a strange dream where everything is just a bit skewed.
<<Where in here is she asking for an analysis of her communication? I think she may have wanted empathy for her feelings.
***********
>> I thought maybe it was me. But if others are reporting this, then I think that perhaps my "mixed message" theory may be valid.
<<It looks like you are saying: **It's you**
>>I think that perhaps my "mixed message" theory may be valid.
>>(you implied I was saying your thinking is faulty)...
<<So where is this implied?
I hope you don't see me as being a big jerk for responding. I just thought it might help? Famous last words....
Posted by Karen_kay on December 19, 2003, at 12:51:22
In reply to Rampant miscommunication?, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:04:30
This happens to me all of the time. Usually I misinterpret other people. I usually speak up. If it is face to face a good way to tell is through eye contact and body language. Email and telephone communication is a different story altogether. If you are unsure of the message being received, then again, ask. If you think there is a chance someone has misread the message you have sent then send a follow-up explaining. Trust me, I have a knack for shoving my foot all the way down my throat. And the people who know me don't mind. They may be hurt for a second, but they understand that I am just communicationally challenged. At least this is just a phase for you. It's the story of my life :)
And, I do think this time of year has a lot to do with it. People are stretched to their limits (financially and emotionally as well). If you go back to your posts and see that there could potentially be an error, post again and clear it up. We understand. No harm, no foul :)
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 19, 2003, at 14:14:36
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 19, 2003, at 12:37:21
Anyone who knows me would know that I do not back away from difficult questions, if they seem to be valid questions to ask.....
Of course, I must recognize that I project my perceptions outwards, in assessing that validity...
I regret if my being me has led to any unpleasant feelings in the yous out there....
Lar
Posted by gabbix2 on December 19, 2003, at 14:35:52
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 19, 2003, at 12:37:21
> >>(you implied I was saying your thinking is faulty)...
> <<So where is this implied?
[I'm going to put on my teflon suit now and let your analysis of my faulty thought process roll off me like water]
Posted by gabbix2 on December 19, 2003, at 14:35:52
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 19, 2003, at 12:37:21
> >>(you implied I was saying your thinking is faulty)...
> <<So where is this implied?
[I'm going to put on my teflon suit now and let your analysis of my faulty thought process roll off me like water]
Posted by gabbix2 on December 19, 2003, at 14:35:52
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 19, 2003, at 12:37:21
> >>(you implied I was saying your thinking is faulty)...
> <<So where is this implied?
[I'm going to put on my teflon suit now and let your analysis of my faulty thought process roll off me like water]
Posted by gabbix2 on December 19, 2003, at 15:03:14
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » Jai Narayan, posted by gabbix2 on December 19, 2003, at 14:35:52
oh I guess I'm gabbix3 now!'
don't know what happened there. I just realized that must have looked so terse. Sorry. I'm feeling pretty emotional today so I didn't want to say anything esle I have a feeling it would just all come out wrong..I can't believe I've finally learned that : (
Posted by tabitha on December 19, 2003, at 19:22:12
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tabitha, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2003, at 0:24:06
> Tabitha, if it means anything, I'm not having any trouble following you at all.
Thank you for saying so.
Everything you said about the effect of the group is probably right-on. The net effect of trying to challenge my perceptions is to leave me a bit confused.. without the familiar pigeon-holes to put people into, it's harder to understand them. Of course maybe I misunderstood them before, but at least I had a framework. Now I'm second-guessing and third-guessing every interaction.
Plus I may be feeling a little braver about trying new things-- being a tad more assertive. I'm bound to get new reactions. Other people have their own stuff too, right? I had mostly retreated into light social mode with everyone outside therapy the last couple years-- so I might be engaging a bit more, running into other folks' stuff.
I also think my meds may need a little tweak. I think I'm distorting to the negative. I keep hoping I'll perk up.
Posted by tabitha on December 19, 2003, at 21:38:51
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication?, posted by Speaker on December 18, 2003, at 23:53:44
I think my over-thinking brain is finally taking a rest. At least there are some islands in the traffic -- you know, nice little rest areas with shrubs and water fountains and informational maps-- although the six lanes of traffic are still whizzing past.
Posted by tabitha on December 19, 2003, at 21:40:14
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tabitha, posted by Karen_kay on December 19, 2003, at 12:51:22
Posted by tabitha on December 19, 2003, at 21:43:40
In reply to Are things getting better?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 19, 2003, at 8:45:49
> You are a wonderful person and I like you very much and I want to send you my caring through these words.
> I care and know that your heart is true and you are sincere.
>
> Please don't stop communicating.Aww, thank you so much. That feels good to hear. Yup, I definitely suffer from over-thinking things. Sometimes it just gets comical. If only I could harness that energy toward something useful-- just bring it down from my head into my feet somehow.
Posted by tealady on December 20, 2003, at 1:18:37
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tabitha, posted by Larry Hoover on December 18, 2003, at 8:46:51
Hi Tabitha,
First let me wish you a merry Xmas, happy and healthy 2004 and all that.
Just reading this thread..bit late getting there from Oz (unless I'm awake in the middle of the night).I hope you work it out soon, but please don't stop communicating. I appreciate the help you have given me before, and I'm sure many others do too.
The internet and emails must be one of the most difficult communication mediums , especially if one is not gifted in written expression. Phone is much easier.
Face to face we rely so much more on other means of communications..not so much the actual words..and the same words can mean sooo many different things depending on the way they are said..the tone, facial/body expressions etc..which just cannot be put into words effectively.
Still the internet does allow some communication and this is way better than none...believe meI haven't been following what had been happening , but just from this thread ..it really did come across to me that you thought you thought you were having a problem communicating
"> > I'm in a weird state. It seems like all my interactions with people are creating miscommunication. A lot of it is text and email like here which I know is notorious for miscommunication, but it's happening in my face to face and phonecalls too. It seems like I can't say anything or hear anything without a misunderstanding happening. My mind is going nuts trying to figure it out-- am I suddenly not seeing things clearly? Is everyone hypersensitive this time of year? It feels like I'm in a strange dream where everything is just a bit skewed."
>
and then Lar said ..>
> Tab, I've been confused in conversations with you myself, and I worked hard to figure out why. The best I can figure is that I get mixed messages, like there are mutually incompatible clusters of thoughts coming from you. It could be that the inferences I draw from what you're saying are not agreeing with the literal text.
>
> I thought maybe it was me. But if others are reporting this, then I think that perhaps my "mixed message" theory may be valid.
>
> Lar
which again , to me, just meant:
well I thought it was just me..but if you, yourself, personally, are finding it with others, and thinking you are having a problem yourself, ..then perhaps the fault is not ALL me after allI don't take as any rejection of hurtful thing to say where you need to put on a protective suit?
Of course, I really just came in on the end of this ... so this is just my interpretation based on what I see written here and how Lar comes across himself on the forum too.>
>"No, nobody else is saying that.
>If you're talking about what I think, what >happened there was you wouldn't take me at my >word. My message wasn't mixed-- it was rejected. >If you won't believe a sincere statement, then ?>there's nothing I can do to reach you.
>
>I'm going to put on my teflon suit now and let >your analysis of my faulty thought process roll >off me like water.
>
>Go in peace, Larry. "
>
I sure hope this helps a bit and I hope you work it out and feel great again soon ...but make sure you keep communicating, OK?Jan
Posted by tealady on December 20, 2003, at 13:19:56
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on December 20, 2003, at 1:18:37
Posted by tabitha on December 20, 2003, at 21:06:09
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on December 20, 2003, at 1:18:37
> I don't take as any rejection of hurtful thing to say where you need to put on a protective suit?
Tell you what.. if you're OK with being told you give mixed messages and have mutually incompatible thought clusters coming from you.. how about I just give Larry's post to you as a gift? I find it hurtful, coming after some history of offering sincere statements and having them critiqued as being secretly insincere.
The protective suit is an image my therapist came up with to help me avoid taking others' criticisms to heart, given that what they see is mixed with their own projections. It's up to me to name what's true for me, and reject the rest. For me, communication breaks down when someone rejects my sincere statements of my own feelings and motivations. Beyond that, I'm just wasting energy fighting off someone's negative perception that doesn't fit. I have enough self-criticism. It's time for some self-protection.
Posted by tealady on December 20, 2003, at 22:50:51
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tealady, posted by tabitha on December 20, 2003, at 21:06:09
> > I don't take as any rejection of hurtful thing to say where you need to put on a protective suit?
>
> Tell you what.. if you're OK with being told you give mixed messages and have mutually incompatible thought clusters coming from you.. how about I just give Larry's post to you as a gift? I find it hurtful, coming after some history of offering sincere statements and having them critiqued as being secretly insincere.
>
> The protective suit is an image my therapist came up with to help me avoid taking others' criticisms to heart, given that what they see is mixed with their own projections. It's up to me to name what's true for me, and reject the rest. For me, communication breaks down when someone rejects my sincere statements of my own feelings and motivations. Beyond that, I'm just wasting energy fighting off someone's negative perception that doesn't fit. I have enough self-criticism. It's time for some self-protection.Tabitha,
If you really find that protective suit helps, then by all means wear it. Whatever helps is useful!
I just didn't read the post that way at all..more that he was receiving the mixed messages...and was a bit relieved to find the communication problem was not all his, in that others may be having communication problems too...just going by what you posted. I thought he was trying to be helpful in telling you how he was perceiving your messages.I was just stating how these posts came across to me.
You have never come across as insincere to me, and I didn't read that in Lar's comments, sigh.
Having one's sincere statements critiqued as being secretly insincere could be hurtful especially if you have not worked it out between you, but honestly..NONE of that came across in this thread, at least to me...and it does seem out of character for Larry.
Don't think I've helped at all, so I think I should give up... but I hope it all works out soon. I didn't mean to hurt you any further.Merry Xmas (or whatever name you are happy with),
Jan
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