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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 78 to 102 of 106. Go back in thread:
Posted by Daisym on June 20, 2006, at 0:22:26
In reply to I'm embarassed to post, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2006, at 23:13:16
I get it. I want to hug you...I so get it.
I just wish there was a way to have what you need that doesn't hurt so much. It shouldn't be this way. It just shouldn't.
I'm feeling young and small tonight so I want the world to be fair and nice and kind. I know it isn't and so much of it is out of our control, but is it so much to ask that our therapist control their little corner of the world for us? I think not!
You'll work through this, I'm sure. And never be embarrassed to post. We love you, all of you. It is a woman's perogative to change her mind, right?
Posted by Tamar on June 20, 2006, at 2:46:37
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post » MidnightBlue, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2006, at 23:53:50
> I feel like I've let everyone down. :(
You haven’t let anyone down at all. You did what you needed to do in order to feel safe and a bit more comfortable.
> I'm so weak.
Dinah, it’s not weak at all. The alternative you proposed was medicating yourself up to the eyeballs. And that might have continued for two months.
> I think... I think he's the only one who really knows part of me. The part that others rarely see. The part that surprises the people who know me. He may be the only human in the world who really knows, or has ever known, that aspect of myself and fully accepts it. The needy unreasonable demanding childish part of me. My husband has borne it occasionally, certainly, but he doesn't care for that part of me. And who can blame him. I think it surprises and scares Babblers. I try to keep it from my son, but he sees it from time to time and it scares him.
If Babblers are surprised, it’s probably because you keep it hidden most of the time. What worries me more is that you seem to think we can’t accept it. And yet, time and again, I’ve seen you deal sensitively and gracefully with others who have been behaving in a way that might appear unreasonable and demanding and childish. You accept it so readily in others, I wonder why it seems so hard for you to think others could accept it in you.
> But my therapist not only accepts that part of me, but he even finds it valuable and worthwhile. He'll admit that it annoys him at times, but swears that that's because of what's going on in his life, not because I'm unacceptable.
That’s very important. It’s important not to stifle that part of yourself.
> I think that part of me is terrified of being alone, without anyone, if I lose my therapist. And on a very visceral level, is afraid of obliteration and annhilation without someone who recognizes it and accepts it.
>
> So I think the fear is fear of death. If not on a whole systems or bodily level, then at least death of that part of me. Oddly enough, that part of me doesn't fear actual death, just symbolic annhilation.
>
> I honestly think the only way to break free from him is to make contact an impossibility by moving. And I can't do that.Or… to find ways of accepting that part of yourself and learning that people will still love you simply because that part of you is part of *you*, and you are a loveable person.
> But it helps me to be able and *be* that part of me twice a week, and express myself to my therapist, who really is more than ordinarily good at it.
That’s very understandable. I don’t think it’s possible for anyone to hold a part of them inside all the time.
> The two other therapists I recently visited were not at all accepting of that part of me and thought I should work to eradicate it or at least control it. Spoke of it as an unruly part of me that should have limits applied. It didn't really work out too well.
Hmmm… I actually rather like unruly parts of people. Maybe I’m odd, but on the other hand I think a lot of us can identify with other people’s foibles. I don’t see why it needs limits applied unless it would get you into trouble… I wouldn’t want you to start punching people or something.
And the point is that you *do* control it. Most of the time. The problem doesn’t seem to be controlling it all. It sounds to me as if the biggest problem is that you feel there’s only one place where you can be truly yourself in all your parts. And I guess it’s self-perpetuating if you try to keep it hidden from other people.
You’re awfully hard on yourself. (((((Dinah))))) I’ve never seen you be so hard on anyone else. Give yourself a break, eh?
Love,
Tamar
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 7:52:32
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post » Dinah, posted by Daisym on June 20, 2006, at 0:22:26
Well, I'm not sure I changed my mind. If it were possible to do so I'd definitely move, because I do hate to get hurt over and over. And I feel like it's my fault because I know who he is, and yet I stay involved.
It's just that this primitive fear overwhelms all else.
I'm not actually a woman you know. :)
Posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2006, at 7:54:56
In reply to I'm embarassed to post, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2006, at 23:13:16
Life is a process. Progress is a process. Can you see it as a little more grey? Maybe you can use this time to let some of the rest of us get to know emotional you a little better. There are more choices than you see.
Perhaps there is a way to accept AND limit at the same time. Sort of like feelings just ARE, but you can control your actions. It seems like you try to deny the feelings in order to control the actions. They really are separate. But I think that it may take some time and practice to be able to "do" that.
You haven't let us down. You are living your life. You have listened to us and considered what we are saying, and decided that you aren't quite ready to changes therapists yet. That is a valid choice. And all this time you are learning.
We do love you, Dinah.
Falls.
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 8:04:43
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post » Dinah, posted by Tamar on June 20, 2006, at 2:46:37
It's hard to give myself a break over this.
It's been an integral part of my life experience that when I exhibit those qualities, even those I'm closest to recoil. My parents couldn't tolerate that part of me, my husband can't. The other therapists pretty much wanted to eradicate it, or treat it like a naughty child. It's hard for me to believe anyone can tolerate or accept it - my therapist included. I guess I always figure he's just trained to accept it. But of course it's more than that. He's an inordinately accepting man.
I like it when it's directed towards me, but I get annoyed when he's so accepting towards himself. lol. Isn't that the case with intense strengths and intense weaknesses? They're nearly always flip sides of each other.
I guess... I suppose that's the reason for the forever therapy as well. I don't go to therapy to learn something and go out into life. I go to therapy for that part of me to have a place to *be*. And finding another place for it to be just isn't as easy as it sounds.
It's not that I don't think I should leave. I really think I should. I think that somewhere in the past nine months, something has eroded and can't be restored.
But finding another therapist who has this essential quality is not soemthing I have much hope of doing. I think it might be easier if my therapist helped me find someone new, but clearly that can't happen in this scenario. And even that can't be easy. They don't believe me when I tell them what I need in therapy. I'm not sure they'd believe him either.
Of course there are those who would say it's not a need, but a want.
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 8:12:44
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post » Dinah, posted by Daisym on June 20, 2006, at 0:22:26
I forgot to say.
Thank you for understanding. :)
It would be so much easier in life if we could just be who we want to be. The me I've created for myself is just fine. Why do I need the me I really am deep down?
My therapist tells me that I am really am both. And that I really need both. Hard to believe that sometimes.
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 8:14:26
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2006, at 7:54:56
Thanks Falls.
It's such a hard thing for me to understand myself. Much less explain. I wish I could.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 9:49:24
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on June 20, 2006, at 7:54:56
Ditto what falls said.
You are loved, Dinah, and quite worthy of it.
gg
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 10:36:53
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post Â, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 9:49:24
I wouldn't be if I were me. (pointing to my gut)
See, that's the whole point.
Me (pointing to my gut) isn't really very loveable. It's more like all the qualities people dislike in a person. Why would people care about a person like that?
Posted by antigua on June 20, 2006, at 10:39:09
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post Â, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 9:49:24
Dinah,
I support you 100%. You said something in an earlier post that things have eroded over the last nine months w/your T. Can you think of it as change, instead of eroding? It's always a developing relationship and when you've been in therapy as long as you have (me too!), the relationship is bound to ebb and flow. I know this is more drastic, but... for example, I don't even remember how many years ago it was, but my T's husband died and it took us a LONG time to get back to a comfortable spot because of all the uncertainty and changes it generated. Many would have suggested that I change Ts at the time because things weren't always right, but I wouldn't, or couldn't, and I ended up learning a lot from the experience. It was painful, yet, but I'm still glad I stuck around.
Really what I'm saying is that you know what is best for you, and changing your mind--even a few times--is o.k. It's part of the process.
Take care, and hug that great son of yours,
antigua
Posted by frida on June 20, 2006, at 11:00:44
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post Â, posted by antigua on June 20, 2006, at 10:39:09
Dinah,
You have my support too...I understand what you say. And what antiqua has shared makes sense...
you'll know what's the best for you...
but she's right that a long relationship is bound to change...
I've had my difficult periods with my T...I remember a time some years ago when she was really frustrated with me and I felt really hurt, because she made choices without asking me, and it was really difficult...another time was when her mother died. I lacked stability and safety for months. But I am glad that I stayed with her. I learnt a lot and now our bond is much stronger because of our shared historyi am not saying that is better for you to stay. I Don't know..Your T seems to be causing you so much hurt. :-(
i am not making much sense, just wanted to say I support you no matter what
Frida
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 11:02:49
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post Â, posted by antigua on June 20, 2006, at 10:39:09
Thanks antigua.
I wish I were as certain as to what to do.
I think it would be easier if my therapist would just seem sorry that he's hurting me. Did your therapist seem as... careless? as mine does when she was grieving?
I think we could get through anything together. I'm just not getting the feeling that we're working together. I know it's reasonable for him to not be himself right now. I'm not either at work. But I am regretful and more likely to cry than anything else when I let people down.
I guess his coping style is different.
I think maybe he's angry at me for being an additional drain on his resources when he feels tapped out. I guess that's reasonable.
It isn't the nature of his job either to be able to put me aside until he's feeling better.
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 11:05:01
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post Â, posted by frida on June 20, 2006, at 11:00:44
Thanks Frida.
My therapist and I have been through a lot and fought to relationship many many times over the years. This feels different. Yet I suppose if I can't leave him, I need to pick up the gauntlet and try to fight to relationship once more.
Posted by orchid on June 20, 2006, at 13:15:46
In reply to I'm embarassed to post, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2006, at 23:13:16
Of course we understand the feeling Dinah, and there is nothing to be embarassed about it.
Haven't we all done the same many times, gone back to the person who hurt us again and again? It is not wrong - it just means you are still very attached to this person. And it may forever be that way, and that would be ok too. Emotions cannot be forced to change.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 13:34:00
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post  » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 10:36:53
> Me (pointing to my gut) isn't really very loveable. It's more like all the qualities people dislike in a person. Why would people care about a person like that?
Simply because she is. That's all it takes.
gg
Posted by antigua on June 20, 2006, at 13:37:58
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post » antigua, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 11:02:49
yes, I would say my T was somewhat careless and thoughtless during that time period. But I think when you have such a long-standing relationship it's really hard not to notice their fallabilities (sp?). For me, it made her more human, and I think it saved me from going through intense transference with her (I DO suffer from transference with males, though). As much as she is/was my T, I knew she couldn't be all there for awhile, and I guess I was willing to wait (I never give up, BTW, which is a terrible fault that you should never suffer)for her to return to her usual self.And she did, and I learned so much from the whole experience, that everything isn't always about me, etc.
take care,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 13:47:34
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post » Dinah, posted by antigua on June 20, 2006, at 13:37:58
Yeah....
I think maybe I'm angry with him for being so very bad in a crisis. He kind of admits that, so I'm not being mean to him.
He got some water in his house, but not more than most people I know. A foot or so. Then he made some bad decisions and caused himself more stress. And he broke the cardinal Katrina rule. That no matter what happened to you or your home, that unless you're relating your own death you follow up with a disclaimer of how lucky you are.
Shortly after the storm, he was telling me how various people had done, and gave grades. This person had only minor wind damage, so they got an A- in the storm. And he gave himself and his family an F. And I didn't know what to say to him, because that didn't leave a lot of room for those people who got ten feet of water in their homes or who lost loved ones.
I think I unrealistically expected him to be at least as good in a crisis as I am, since I'm the client. And he's supposed to have at least some of the answers, right?
So maybe I get impatient with him instead of cutting him enough slack...
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 13:51:16
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post  » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 13:34:00
I maybe know that in theory...
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 13:56:08
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post » Dinah, posted by orchid on June 20, 2006, at 13:15:46
Posted by annierose on June 20, 2006, at 14:57:31
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post  » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 13:51:16
Everyone else has said it so much better. In a nutshell (and we are a fun loving nutty bunch), we love Dinah - all of her - no matter what. I think GG and Falls said it too, feelings just are - just like the color of your eyes, they are not right or wrong, they just are. But we own our actions and can learn about what we feel, then what we do with them --- or something like that.
Be kind to yourself. But I don't think you need your T as much as you think you do. You are stronger and wiser than you give yourself credit for. And as for that place that you can just be accepted, I think you'll find it more and more as you accept yourself.
Life is hard. You have had a ton of obstacles the past few years. Give yourself what you need right now.
Posted by tryingtobewise on June 20, 2006, at 19:36:20
In reply to I'm embarassed to post, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2006, at 23:13:16
Hi Dinah, One thing about friends -- even cyber-friends -- is that they stand behind each other and look for positive attributes! So please don't be embarassed. As sure as I will rally around you if you feel you need to terminate with your T, I will also rally around and support your decision not to terminate.
I don't even know if you read my response above, but after submitting it I felt some regret...like I was backing you into a corner or something. But you have posted some nice things to me in the past and I am a bit like a mother bear with my friends (& kids) and want to smack around anyone who gives them grief. (Although I don't of course actually do this.)
Not that you asked, but I totally understand sticking with you T for the time being!
All the best,
Kim
Posted by happyflower on June 20, 2006, at 20:28:13
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post, posted by tryingtobewise on June 20, 2006, at 19:36:20
Hi Dinah,
I had a feeling you would still go back to him, I understand, really. A lot of people here have told me my T isn't good for me, but he is mostly. I think part of therapy is working on the theraputic relationship. I am not sure why I am taking my anger out on my T lately, but it must be for a reason. But I still got hurt, but yet I wonder if the reason I am hurt has really nothing to do with him so much, so me taking my anger out on someone who won't hurt me physically and will still accept me and take me back. People in real life don't always do that.
So what I am getting at is, that maybe some of your hurt is coming from something other than him. I am just guessing, but do you want more from your T than a theraputic relationship? Are you wanting something he can't really give you? I know I do, and after 10 years I would want to feel extra special to him too, not just a client.
I also think we want to believe our T are like superhuman too. And when they don't live up to that, it kinda makes me anyways insecure. Like they can really be REAL, and leave us or die on us or something.
I think your T like a lot of other people is still feeling the effects of Katrina. I bet a lot of other T's are having a hard time trying to keep together. Usually when we talk about the bad stuff of our life, it is personal to us, but Katrina isn't just your pain, it is his too, and I think it must be hard to keep his families pain separate from yours. I am sure he needs therapy too. But this is no excuse for hurting you though, I don't want you think I am saying that. I have a feeling that both of you are hurting and just want things to be normal again. I think it will come for you Dinah, I really do . ((((Dinah))))
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 21:30:06
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post, posted by tryingtobewise on June 20, 2006, at 19:36:20
Thank you, Kim.
I just love the idea of you as a mother bear. :)
I didn't think your post backed me into a corner. I just thought a lot of people had a lot of good points, and I felt bad at how weak I am in this area.
But maybe I should be easier on myself. There are reasons for why i am the way I am.
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 21:32:30
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post Â, posted by annierose on June 20, 2006, at 14:57:31
I wish I could believe I'm strong. I really do. Probably a lot of my troubles come from my belief that I need Daddy or my husband or my therapist to protect me from the world. Or maybe believing that I need them to do that helps me with the illusion that they *can* do that.
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 21:38:52
In reply to Re: I'm embarassed to post, posted by happyflower on June 20, 2006, at 20:28:13
It depends on what you mean by more.
If you mean do I want to feel special, then yes. And probably he does feel I'm special. In fact I think that he got angry with himself for considering me more than he thinks he should have, and making my needs more important to him than he thinks they should have been, and part of this is his protective pulling away.
That's the problem with being special or having boundaries bent. In the long run they do notice what they're doing and they zoing it back like a rubber band stretched too far. And ouch! That stings a lot. It feels good in the moment. But it leads to pain down the road.
If you mean do I want a relationship outside therapy? No. I can honestly say I don't. I've never felt I'd have any particular liking for him in any role other than therapist. We have nothing in common. Not likes and dislikes or ways of dealing with the world or even values. I want a strictly therapeutic relationship. In which I'm a Very Special Client. And that lasts forever.
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