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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on March 22, 2004, at 20:37:09
Have any of you talked to your therapist about dissociated ego states? Multiple personality? DID? Inner children with the ability to take control of behavior?
I know that it's a diagnosis that has fallen into some disfavor with some professionals since the lawsuits and license yankings of a few professionals who specialize in it. Heck, it was probably always in disfavor with a lot of professionals. Yet it is also one of the oldest documented disorders.
I'm almost positive my psychiatrist would strongly disapprove of the notion. I think he would be the sort to ignore the very idea so as not to encourage it. My therapist is rather noncommittal, although I don't think he disbelieves. Neither does he enthusiastically endorse the idea.
I don't fit the diagnostic criteria for DID, although I do have two (or possibly three) well defined ego states. Well, well defined to me. Other people don't really notice (other than my therapist). But I have no amnesia, no lost time. According to the DES administered by the EMDR therapist, I don't even qualify as having *any* dissociative disorder whatsoever. I think I'd generally disagree with that, since dissociation is my very favorite coping mechanism, and I clearly overuse it to the point where it could definitely be said to have a negative impact on my functioning.
I was just wondering what the general sense out there was, among those of you who had discussed the idea with your therapists. Is there acceptance of the concept? Has anyone with well differentiated ego states found themselves with a therapist who refused to acknowledge them?
Posted by Pfinstegg on March 23, 2004, at 0:02:43
In reply to Ego states, posted by Dinah on March 22, 2004, at 20:37:09
Ego State Disorder because of Complex PTSD is the diagnosis I have. I was quite shocked to receive that dx initially, but I do now think that it is right, It doesn't involve any lost time, or feeling like different people. What it involves is very sudden shifts (under certain stresses) from feeling happy, relaxed and confident- just going about my business and functioning well- to feeling extremely depressed, anxious and "frozen". I can hide it, and keep looking as if I'm OK, but I am really not. I don't even feel like I've dissociated, but a part of me definitely has- so, even though it's not DID or MPD, it's considered on the general spectrum of those disorders.
It's kind of a blow to the ego to have an Ego State Disorder! But my analyst is great, and so highly skilled at dealing with stuff like this, so I am letting much more of it show- to him, and to me-than I ever did before. It's really helping.
Maybe I should add, to make it a bit clearer if I can, that the part that freezes and dissociates is an extremely young part of me that I mostly keep hidden- but at a cost of a lot of stress.
Posted by EmmyS on March 23, 2004, at 5:56:42
In reply to Re: Ego states » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on March 23, 2004, at 0:02:43
Are you in the UK or Canada? The DSM IV doesn't have Ego State d/o, so I'm wondering if they use a slightly different one, or maybe that dx is from an older DSM? I'd like to read the specs on it. I'm off to wander the web in search! Thank you.
Emmy
Posted by Pfinstegg on March 23, 2004, at 7:24:26
In reply to Re: Ego states » Pfinstegg, posted by EmmyS on March 23, 2004, at 5:56:42
I'm in the US. I go to a teaching analyst, who is a leader in the new thinking about the dissociative spectrum, so I got a diagnosis that is still being considered. I guess my *official* dx would be Complex PTSD-NOS,
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 11:47:18
In reply to Re: Ego states » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on March 23, 2004, at 0:02:43
I love your therapist's view of ego states. I printed it out and have it stashed somewhere in my files. It's very innovative and insightful.
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 13:10:15
In reply to Re: Ego states » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on March 23, 2004, at 0:02:43
Ahhh. I found the post I was talking about.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20030529/msgs/230059.html
Have you made much progress in the area? I was just reading the archives and considering that I'm still going round and round the same ideas nearly a year later. Although I might be circling more slowly now.
Posted by DaisyM on March 23, 2004, at 15:25:46
In reply to Ego states, posted by Dinah on March 22, 2004, at 20:37:09
A few months ago I wouldn't have thought it possible to have hidden ego states. Now I know it to be true. I think circumstances and people can call out different parts of our psyche...
I keep my younger self hidden too. But I now have a clear perception of when "she" is upset or wants to have an opinion about something. I still find is disconcerting to note the split parts of myself and how they can want completely different things. However, my inner child has not taken control of behavior nor do I lose time.
My Therapist likes to talk to my younger self, but he always asks permission before he does. He points out different "voices" when I don't notice or he'll ask "who's voice is that talking." But he is very psychodynically oriented so I'm sure he believes in DID.
Posted by Pfinstegg on March 23, 2004, at 16:11:05
In reply to Re: Ego states » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 11:47:18
Thank you, Dinah -for the old post from last May! I didn't remember writing it, and it was fun to read and ask myself the same question- how have I changed, if at all? It's a slow process, for sure, but I think the negative parts- the small child who was abandonned, terrified, and yet still full of longing for her mother, and the slightly older girl, who was enraged and helpless because of the abuse she was getting, are THERE in the hours much more of the time. I'm a lot more aware of those feelings than I was, and not surprised any longer when they appear. They always appear in relation to my analyst; I react to HIM as if he were the rejecting mother or abusive father. Transference with a capital T! He doesn't make any quick interpretations about what the transference is really about; we both know that by now. Rather, he lets it play itself out; almost always, those young parts of me get to have a new experience of someone who is reliable and really THERE; they get to feel better and more comforted. When we get to that point, I can tell HIM what the transference storm was all about, which lets us both know that I really understand what's going on. So, I guess I can say, one year later, that my awareness is much greater, and the *parts* are much more present in the analytic hour. It looks like they'll need quite a bit more interaction with him before they feel really healed and integrated. I do love this way of working- it seems to make so much sense!
Posted by noa on March 23, 2004, at 17:30:47
In reply to Ego states, posted by Dinah on March 22, 2004, at 20:37:09
Yes. I don't have DID per se, or true dissociation (whatever that really means, but based on what I've read about it) but we have talked a lot about a kind of dissociation that I have had between different very distinct emotional states between depressed and non-depressed. I don't know if you remember the metaphor I mentioned of the different channels on TV--when one was on the other was gone, like it didn't exist at all, etc. and I always felt a lack of ability to predict when the channel would change, etc., and then as the therapy progressed, it felt like I could be more aware of the other channel when I was watching this one, and then it became so I felt like I could have a split screen, and then it changed to kind of a inset screen within screen, etc.
I don't think we used the words "ego states", but I think it seems like a similar concept.
Posted by noa on March 23, 2004, at 17:42:24
In reply to Re: Ego states, posted by DaisyM on March 23, 2004, at 15:25:46
Yes, this resonates. Sometimes, some states of emotion feel overpowering and nonverbal, like they come from early in my life before I had words to describe feelings.
Posted by EmmyS on March 23, 2004, at 18:36:38
In reply to Re: Ego states » EmmyS, posted by Pfinstegg on March 23, 2004, at 7:24:26
Very helpful info...thank you.
I just ordered an out of print book on the topic. If I can remember how to use those double double quotes.... "People in Pieces: Multiple Personality in Milder Forms & Greater Numbers"
Emmy
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 18:53:57
In reply to Re: Ego states » Pfinstegg, posted by EmmyS on March 23, 2004, at 18:36:38
> Very helpful info...thank you.
>
> I just ordered an out of print book on the topic. If I can remember how to use those double double quotes.... "People in Pieces: Multiple Personality in Milder Forms & Greater Numbers"
>
> Emmy
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 18:54:48
In reply to Re: Ego states, posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 18:53:57
And I submitted links and everything :(
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 19:01:50
In reply to Re: Ego states » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on March 23, 2004, at 16:11:05
It's the darndest thing. It took all my courage to bring up this topic, and then I look back a year and see I was talking about it then too. :)
Go figure. And no, that's not amnesia. It might be preferring not to remember a sensitive topic.
I usually like to look back in the archives and see how much I've grown but this time I'm disheartened that I'm still struggling with the same issue and haven't really come all that far.
I think to a large extent shame holds me back. And I'm not ashamed of much. So why am I so ashamed of this?
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 19:04:37
In reply to Re: Ego states » Pfinstegg, posted by EmmyS on March 23, 2004, at 18:36:38
Thanks for the referral Emmy. I tried to order it too.
I really liked "The Myth of Sanity" by Martha Stout. I even had a e-consultation with her, although her site seems to have disappeared and her email address is no longer functional. It talks a lot about dissociatated ego states short of DID too.
Posted by rs on March 23, 2004, at 19:41:35
In reply to Ego states, posted by Dinah on March 22, 2004, at 20:37:09
hi Dinah. First of all do not post here often. So sorry for just jumping in. Thought your post was interesting.
First of all I am DID. Like to say am and not have. Not sure on why. Anyway took many years for someone to believe and figure out what is going on. I know in this area there is not many that work with it at all. Also think is the believing part but also its a long process. Had a T for sometime but he moved away. UGH. After a few years finally had to search out again. Actually called people and no one would see me. Finally found the one seeing now and he is the best. Believes etc. Is not scared or back off from anyone that speaks with him. Think he does not. Also when started to see him told him what was going on. He totally ignored it. Anyway finally he looks and say yes you are DID. No kidding. He said that he has had many people go in there and say they are but not. Why people would fake this I asked. He said for attention etc. How sad. He has only worked with one before me. So not sure if this is any help. But IMO think it takes a darn open minded therapist and special one to work with DID. Also IMO DID clients should be seen at least twice a week and at times will be in crisis. I feel for you if you are trying to expalin your ego states and how and what is going on for you.
Posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 19:49:50
In reply to Re: Ego states, posted by rs on March 23, 2004, at 19:41:35
That must have been a really difficult thing to do. I'm not sure how well therapy would work with a therapist who didn't believe a person. I'm glad you kept trying until you found a therapist who believed.
Posted by EmmyS on March 23, 2004, at 19:50:13
In reply to Re: Ego states - Noa and » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 19:01:50
"I think to a large extent shame holds me back. And I'm not ashamed of much. So why am I so ashamed of this? "
Funny...you're asking ME ;-)
It's a dx with an odd rep historically speaking. Full blown DID harkens me back to Sybil and the first pop culture books on mental illness. That book scared the heck outta me. Then there were the days of DID being overdiagnosed, and so much controversy. Then some time when the internet began to be extraodinarily popular, along came many faux DID personalities. So much bad press.
I'm pretty lost on the topic Dinah. The more I think, the less I know.
Emmy
Posted by DaisyM on March 23, 2004, at 23:04:35
In reply to Re: Ego states - Noa and » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on March 23, 2004, at 19:01:50
>>>I think to a large extent shame holds me back. And I'm not ashamed of much. So why am I so ashamed of this?
I can only tell you why I am ashamed of this for me...the little kid part is so amazingly needy. She was so hurt and so traumatized that when she shows herself, it is because she has something to say to my Therapist. She has become really attached to him, and I've noticed, that when she disappears, she takes him with her, metaphorically speaking. Then "I" feel empty, like I've lost something really important. We've recently starting working on ways the adult me can feel attached to him too.
The adult me is not only terrified of what she might say and of her memories, but also of how vocal she is about getting her needs met. I feel like getting these needs met is a burden on others and I should not be lonely, or in crisis nor should I want to be soothed or held. But these are things she wants.
Even as I write this, I shake my head. It is so mortifying for me. Which is why I don't want to talk about myself in parts anymore. My Therapist says it is too soon to push this, that the parts will go back into hiding. But it feels just plain weird to me...
Posted by ryan312 on March 24, 2004, at 1:11:35
In reply to Re: Ego states, posted by DaisyM on March 23, 2004, at 15:25:46
I was sexually abused as a child and had early parental loss.
I often find myself in a dissociated state with two voices with which I am not familiar talking to each other. However, I only catch the "tale end" of the conversation.
It is a situation where I "come back" to reality, perhaps standing in the middle of my living room, and then just a 2 second fragment of the conversation I was having between two "imaginary" voices is available to my "real" ego.
I don't by any means think I have "fully formed" separate personalities. However, I do think I have "split off" fragmented, partially formed, ego states(personalities) other than my primary "self".
I also often, many times a day, "come back" from dissociating and find my self attacking my own body by pinching myself all over, etc. But when I come back to full awareness I stop that self injurious behavior after about 10 seconds.
This is a fascinating yet scary subject.
Posted by Shalala on March 24, 2004, at 1:51:49
In reply to Re: Ego states, posted by ryan312 on March 24, 2004, at 1:11:35
This is very interesting. I really identify with this idea. I just "know" I'm in pieces somehow. I think at some point I created another part of me inside of myself that I talked to, who was always there. It was just the way I thought inside my head. I created my own little consultant. It's a little tiring keeping up these conversations in my head, so I'm glad to say my thoughts are less divided these days, and somehow really more my own. I once had a voice in my head call me a name, like it was as real as day. It's funny the way your psyche structures itself.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 24, 2004, at 6:34:35
In reply to Re: Ego states, posted by Shalala on March 24, 2004, at 1:51:49
There is actually a therapy orientation out there called Internal Systems Therapy. This was started by a group who were working with clients with bulimia. They found common themes in these inner voices which roughly correspond to a thinker, feeler, and doer. Systems theory looks at how different roles played out in a family system affect behaviors. Internal Systems theory places the roles and actors within one Self. The therapy gets the "leader" or the Self to dialog with the other roles or voices and for them to dialog with each other. The goal is for the "team" to all be on the same page. For example, someone who SI's might be thought of as having the "actor" part of them working overtime to control the expression of the feeling part by SI'ing before a painful feeling can surface. The actor part gets so used to this role, that it acts without the others' approval, and has essentially taken over the leadership role of the Self.
Does this make sense? I just found this theory to be interesting and a way to provide some structure to the different "parts" of clients' inner worlds which can play a role in therapy. I use the two-chair a lot to work with the different dialogs. It's a very experiential approach that I have had some good luck with.
Does this resonate at all with different ego states that many of you have been describing? Or am I coming out of left field?
Interesting thread!
gg
Posted by EmmyS on March 24, 2004, at 7:39:19
In reply to Re: Ego states, posted by gardenergirl on March 24, 2004, at 6:34:35
Yikes GG - You struck gold for me. Thinker, feeler, doer are perfect. I'm off to learn more about Internal systems therapy. Thank you very much.
Posted by fallsfall on March 24, 2004, at 8:04:30
In reply to Re: Ego states » gardenergirl, posted by EmmyS on March 24, 2004, at 7:39:19
As far as I can tell, I have only one ego state. I don't really understand the "inner child" stuff. I know that I have a lot of Child-like (childish?) wishes. Most of my comforts are child related (swings, crayons, ice cream).
My therapist used to be the Psychology Director in a hospital. He told me that many people would come in claiming to have DID. He doesn't believe in DID. He said that they just needed to pull together their different viewpoints into a single viewpoint. Gee, that sounds a lot like DID integration to me.
I know 2 people very well who have DID, so I have experienced it myself.
I told my therapist that we would have to agree to disagree on this. And that I would, from time to time, need to talk about my close friend who has DID (and I implied that I didn't want him to "correct" my viewpoint). This has worked for us so far.
P.S. Daisy, my therapist is Psychodynamic, too, but does NOT believe in DID. You implied that you thought that Psychodynamic implied belief in DID. I'm interested in why you think that.
Posted by DaisyM on March 24, 2004, at 11:03:45
In reply to Re: Ego states, posted by fallsfall on March 24, 2004, at 8:04:30
<<<P.S. Daisy, my therapist is Psychodynamic, too, but does NOT believe in DID. You implied that you thought that Psychodynamic implied belief in DID. I'm interested in why you think that.
>>>I think I meant less about "belief" and more about working with whatever comes up. Maybe it is the terminology, but it seems like most psychodynamically oriented Therapists work with the different parts of the personality/ego: thinking/intellectualizing part, feeling part, etc. Or they talk about internalized voices.
I didn't really mean to imply a definite connection between belief or not. More that this orientation is willing to work with the "how you got this way" not just "what do we do about it now."
I'm wondering if your Therapist believes that people who present with DID actually have conscious control about "who" is out, even if they say they don't. I could see how you would wonder about that: Is this person using different personalities as a defense mechanism? But I guess I think it is confusing if you "believe" in the unconscious being able to motivate people into behaviors and they aren't aware of the motivation, then how can you *not* believe that separate personalities might exist in that unconscious.
But, I don't know very much about this subject. When I try to read up on it, it makes my head spin and I space out. I find this reaction disturbing and fascinating at the same time.
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