![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 47 to 71 of 103. Go back in thread:
Posted by SatinDoll on November 24, 2006, at 12:39:39
In reply to Please keep it civil, everyone, posted by gardenergirl on November 24, 2006, at 12:30:09
I think it is best if I just remove myself from this situation completely. sorry again. I am trying to be honest, but I don't know how to do that and remain correct in the babble way, because I don't understand the rules. So I will back away and not post anymore about this situation. Thanks for the warning GG
Posted by Racer on November 24, 2006, at 12:46:35
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board » poet, posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 21:46:35
> >> > I can't really answer your question about bulimia and the eating board, so I'll ask a question of you: what did you learn from your experience posting on that cancer site?
> >
> > Poet
>
> I learned that I can't keep posting that I'm doing badly over and over again or else people will start to get really upset with me. I have to learn to suffer in silence.
>
> Deneb*Deneb, I don't think that's the lesson you learned there, is it? Let me ask you a slightly different question:
When you posted on the cancer board, did you have cancer? Do you think that has anything to do with why people became upset there?
In asking that question, I'm not saying you don't have an eating disorder. I'm asking you if you think the fact that you did not have cancer, yet continued to post that "I'm doing badly over and over again" on that cancer site might have had anything to do with people there becoming upset at your posts.
The PsychoBabble community is a place where people can come for education and support. You can post anything you like, as long as it is within the civility guidelines, and you can post the same thing over and over again. No one is saying you can't continue to post here on this board within this community.
There are, however, consequences for our behavior here. The one I think you're running into, and becoming upset by, is that people won't always give you the response you're hoping for. I think that's what's happened here. Just as you have the right to post whatever you choose to post -- always within the guidelines, of course -- others have the right to respond as they choose -- as long as it's within the guidelines.
I won't comment further on anything else in this thread, beyond saying that I do hope you get help with your problems, because I do believe you when you say you're suffering. I wish you were not suffering, I don't like to see you in pain.
Whether or not you choose to do anything about it, though, is -- as you've pointed out -- your choice.
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:41:25
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board » Deneb, posted by Racer on November 24, 2006, at 12:46:35
Tell me you want me to live. Tell me you like me. If you don't, I will feel like killing myself.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:57:17
In reply to I'm really really really really upset, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:41:25
I'm only making people hate me more by demanding that they tell me they like me right?
I hate myself.
Deneb*
Posted by Poet on November 24, 2006, at 19:24:49
In reply to I'm really really really really upset, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:41:25
Deneb, I think you need to read through your posts. There is a pattern of *help me, I don't need help, I admit I seek attention, but this time I really need help, I'm never going to binge or purge again, now I'm going to restrict. I'm going to kill myself.*
I don't hate you Deneb, I just dislike it when someone tries to manipulate me and I fear that is what you are doing. I believe you that you have an ED, I understand why you don't want therapy, and I hope you understand that I am upset that you ask for help then reject it. It's like you only want to hear that it's okay to have an ED, it is not okay.
I'm sorry you're upset, but I hope you can see how upsetting it is to now read that you want to kill yourself. You've posted things like this before, especially on social, and I wish you could see how it can be misinterpreted as attention seeking, not help seeking. I can offer you my attention, but only if you are receptive to my suggestions of help.
Poet
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 24, 2006, at 19:45:52
In reply to Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:57:17
I don't think people hate you. Frustration and hate are two different things, and I think there is a level of frustration people are experiencing right now that has resulted in them having to withdraw or shield themselves to avoid being hurt or being hurtful.
My two cents on this: There comes a point in our lives when we have to take responsibility for our actions and our words. When we have acted in such a way or said something that causes a number of others frustration, then I think we need to step back and see how we could have done or said things differently. And, when things go bad or we have temporarily alienated others, thinking about killing ourselves should't be what comes to mind to deal with the situation. Life is going to throw you a lot of curve balls along the way, and not everybody is going to treat you with kid gloves or always be patient or sympathetic, and you need to develop skills to deal with those things without resorting to the end it all option.
I hope you can get your ED under control, and I hope that you can start working at maintaining healthy relationships with others that are built on trust and honesty.
> I'm only making people hate me more by demanding that they tell me they like me right?
>
> I hate myself.
>
> Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 19:54:59
In reply to Hope You Find What You're Looking For Trigger » Deneb, posted by Poet on November 24, 2006, at 19:24:49
I'm sorry. I don't want to kill myself anymore. I'm feeling a little better now. I'm not good at looking at situations from other people's point of view. I'm sorry I can't interact like a normal person. I'm not very good at this. I still don't know how to behave here so people will like me.
I just don't get it. I don't think I ever will.
Will people like me again if I see another T? I will do that if it means people will like me again.
What do I need to do so people won't ignore me and be my friend again? I'll do anything to not be ignored and have friends again. I just want people to like me.
If I post good things will people respond to me again? I just want people to like me and write good things to me again.
Here is a good thing: I didn't binge or purge today. I think telling my Mom helped. She's reminding me not to binge and checking up on me to make sure I'm not purging.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 20:08:23
In reply to Re: Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more » Deneb, posted by dreamboat_annie on November 24, 2006, at 19:45:52
> When we have acted in such a way or said something that causes a number of others frustration, then I think we need to step back and see how we could have done or said things differently.
I don't know what I did wrong. I need a specific list of things to not write about. I just don't understand.
> And, when things go bad or we have temporarily alienated others, thinking about killing ourselves should't be what comes to mind to deal with the situation.
I can't help it. I'm going to die one day because of this, I just know it. I still sort of want to die. If people don't start liking me again I think I want to die. If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong.
> Life is going to throw you a lot of curve balls along the way, and not everybody is going to treat you with kid gloves or always be patient or sympathetic, and you need to develop skills to deal with those things without resorting to the end it all option.
I don't think I will ever develop skills to deal with that. I don't think I'm going to last very long in this world.
Deneb
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 24, 2006, at 20:14:00
In reply to Re: Hope You Find What You're Looking For Trigger, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 19:54:59
My opinion - You have to learn to acknowledge and move on. Try to learn not to dwell on things said or done or perceived to have been said or done. Try not to be so impulsive in your reactions to things said or done. Before you respond or react, take a step back and think about it. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, we misinterpret another's words and then we react negatively or defensively and we end up with a chain reaction of hurt and frustration, etc. I know this is a completely situation, but whenever two of my staff are having a conflict, before I will step in and try to resolve it, I tell each them to take a walk or sleep on it and then sit down together and discuss what has happened (because, often when we have taken the time to cool off and assess the situation more rationally, we see things in a different light). You know, I have never had to step in and resolve a conflict. The individuals have been able to resolve it themselves and, in the end, have strengthened their working relationship.
Deneb, you can't make people like you and not everybody is going to like you for the same reasons. Asking people what you have to do to make them like you will just end up making you a disingenuous person, and that will wear thin eventually. Spend some time trying to figure out who you are and what makes you happy, and then worry about what others think.
> I'm sorry. I don't want to kill myself anymore. I'm feeling a little better now. I'm not good at looking at situations from other people's point of view. I'm sorry I can't interact like a normal person. I'm not very good at this. I still don't know how to behave here so people will like me.
>
> I just don't get it. I don't think I ever will.
>
> Will people like me again if I see another T? I will do that if it means people will like me again.
>
> What do I need to do so people won't ignore me and be my friend again? I'll do anything to not be ignored and have friends again. I just want people to like me.
>
> If I post good things will people respond to me again? I just want people to like me and write good things to me again.
>
> Here is a good thing: I didn't binge or purge today. I think telling my Mom helped. She's reminding me not to binge and checking up on me to make sure I'm not purging.
>
> Deneb
Posted by ElaineM on November 24, 2006, at 20:32:33
In reply to Re: hope you find what you're looking for *trigger, posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 23:47:35
Sorry, I've been out all day with my sister.
>>>>>>>It's like you're giving up hope on me.
I never once said that, and that's not what I meant to convey. I'm sorry you interpret it that way. It must be hard to feel sad.
>>>>I don't want to do the things needed to recover so I don't have hope.
Like you said, only you can decide what you do and do not want to do. If your decision makes you feel like you have no hope, then that must be a scary feeling. There is always hope when you look for it. I hope you can find what you need.
>>>>>Feel like killing myself now. Have no hope. :-( Sorry if I'm being dramatic.
I'm not a therapist myself so I don't really know how to deal with a statement like that except say that it must be frightening to feel that way. As far as being dramatic, only you can judge that for yourself. I'd never make a comment like that personally about someone else.
There are ways to cope with such feelings, and people to help. If you feel unsafe then I urge you to take care of yourself and go to the emergency.
[I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, so I apoligize if I'm being redundant here.]
best, EL
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 24, 2006, at 20:46:20
In reply to Re: Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more » dreamboat_annie, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 20:08:23
> I don't know what I did wrong. I need a specific list of things to not write about. I just don't understand.
>
I can't answer that. Perhaps instead of asking for a list of specific things, try to accept that some of the dialogue that has been taking place here has hurt others for their own very personal reasons. What hurts or upsets or triggers one person is not necessarily going to cause the same reactions in another, so a specific list isn't always helpful. Perhaps, re-read some of the posts and try to understand, from the others' experiences, why they may be frustrated or upset or feeling emotionally vulnerable. When we spend more time listening to others, we are better able to communicate with them and better able to understand where they are coming from.
>
> I can't help it. I'm going to die one day because of this, I just know it. I still sort of want to die. If people don't start liking me again I think I want to die. If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong.
>
No you are not because you have acknowledged at a very early stage that you have a problem with binging and purging. And, I don't think you really want to die. You just want to stop hurting emotionally.
> I don't think I will ever develop skills to deal with that. I don't think I'm going to last very long in this world.
>
I'm sure you will. Maybe you can try journalling, if you are not ready to pursue therapy. When I had constant thoughts of harming myself and was feeling negative and insecure, I would sit for hours just writing everything out - how I was feeling, what I was thinking, how mad I was with so and so . . ., and it seemed to help because it distracted me and got the negative thoughts and emotions out of my head. It really can be cathartic.
> Deneb
Posted by adrift on November 24, 2006, at 21:29:48
In reply to Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:57:17
> I'm only making people hate me more by demanding that they tell me they like me right?
>
> I hate myself.
>
> Deneb*It sounds like you are too focussed on "making" people like you more then anything else. Its never a good idea to "force" anything, no one is liked by everyone and no one likes everyone! Unfortunately there will be times in life that we need to learn to deal and accept the fact that people are not always what we want or expect them to be. You can't be liked by everyone.
As others have said, start talking to your pdoc about how "you" feel about you and hopefully that will get to the root of what's really bothering you.>
> I can't help it. I'm going to die one day because of this, I just know it. I still sort of want to die. If people don't start liking me again I think I want to die. If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong.
It sounds like you need to start liking yourself first. Why do you feel the need to prove anything? Start with proving to yourself that you can overcome this.
>
> I don't think I will ever develop skills to deal with that. I don't think I'm going to last very long in this world.
>
> Deneb
It's not easy but attitude truly does have a lot of impact on how we survive in the world. Start telling yourself that you will develop the skills. You yourself said once in a post that you had changed a lot, that means there is room for more change in developing skills, right?
Posted by ElaineM on November 24, 2006, at 21:51:41
In reply to Re: Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more » dreamboat_annie, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 20:08:23
>>>>>>I don't know what I did wrong.
For me personally Deneb, it's not about *doing* something wrong. You can do or say or believe whatever you like or need - but I'm just saying that I will also do the same. The fact that I may need to distance myself from certain topics doesn't reflect what I think of your person as a whole, or your humaness. Did you know that people can disagree and STILL like each other? It's a "grey" concept. Sometimes if you only see things is black and white the world seems more hostile (or even *only* hostile). Learning to be able to see the "inbetween" is a part of DBT (incase you were curious). Also, a "bad" person can do "good" things, and a "good" person can do "bad" things. Nobody's spilt into one extreme - nobody is either only one or the other. (that's another grey). That's the type of stuff you learn when doing DBT. You don't need to rehash the past or anything. You don't need to analyze old patterns either. You learn how to function in a more adaptive way for the future. I think that's a lovely idea personally - reclaiming your future, and opening more possibilities, and paving the way for moments of blessed neutral-ness. [Okay, jeez, I'll roll my eyes for all of us ;-)]
But seriously, what if learning new techniques of reflecting and interacting and behaving, what if that freed you up to more fully become the person you are, what if it made your personality flourish, what if it helped your best characteristics stand out even more, instead of erasing it like you fear therapy would. What an awesome "what if".I will never give up on you as a person, but something I've learned in my own therapy is that I can't be responsible for another's actions or their emotions. It's not my job. My job is Me. And it's not your job to take care of me, or anyone else here. We're all grown-up adult women [and men too]. I'm kinda young, but I'm an adult. You're a bit younger than me, but you're an adult too. I'm sure a few others are younger than you, and they're also adults. And that's a great thing - that means we can decide what our own actions are. No one can force you to try another T, as though you were a child - but nobody can STOP you either. I don't know, personally I find that a liberating idea. The best part is, when I finally do something right amid all the cr@p I make myself end up in too, then ALL the credit goes to me, because (even if I didn't reach the goal alone, or whatever) *I* alone set it in motion. Adult Me alone. :-) And it feels good. ANd you can have good feelings too. But just to finish my long-winded point [are you sure ya want me posting to you? ;-)], I will have to avoid content I find jeopardizing to me. I'm enough of a head-case already, you know? And recovery is precarious enough of a thing. But that doesn't mean I won't be able to post to you on other topics, or on the other boards.
One last point, just if you wanted to know, a therapist would stay with you in a different way, through difficult stuff/topics/language/behaviours/etc. that I (and/or other) regular old civilians (most also patient/clients) need to take a step back from for our own mental and emotional states. That's the great thing about T's - they're like a pair of ears that are always there, and you can never say anything "wrong". Anyways, just thought it'd be interesting to know.>>>>>If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong.
I'd believe anyone who says that they can harm themselves. I know they can. I know some do. I'm sorry you feel so little for yourself. It must be a scary feeling to use your life as a threat. I'd like to find some Crisis Contact numbers for your city. Sometimes they are listed in the back of the phonebook, you can look those up to help yourself. You can learn to cope with suicidal thoughts by talking to your pdoc about them, or a therapist, or another helping professional. However, I don't feel safe being involved in conversations where someone threatens their life based on others potential actions - because I'm not equiped with the skills to deal with that. It doesn't mean I want you to do it, or think you're a bad person, it only means that I personally don't want to be involved in such a situation.
>>>>>I don't think I will ever develop skills to deal with that.
Most of us didn't do it on our own. If a person's one of the lucky ones, their parents taught them most skills. But for various reasons (not *always* the fault of parents) skills somtimes don't develope, or aren't absorbed, like they're "supposed" to. That's when people go to therapy. Therapy is really like a schoolroom that way - and you can't learn without a teacher. So if stuff isn't learned through growing up as a kid, then, being the adults that we are, we take it into our own hands and put ourselves in an enviroment where we will. We initiate the process ourselves. For one thing, we can sign ourselves up for therapy. ANd when you do that as an adult, it's easier to understand the concept of accepting the person you are at the moment, while working toward making positive changes for the future. Like: I'm a good and worthy person doing the best I can with what I have at the moment, who ALSO must make changes in the way I'm functioning to make sure I have a less chaotic more functional future.
You can learn only if you want to. It's up to you. Only Deneb can change Deneb's life. I've learned you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. But, I believe that deep inside you do have the strength to be that vulnerable and that brave. So even though this is my final post to this thread, I do wish you luck and I hope that you'll do what is best for you in the long run because I wish you less pain.
best, EL
(and i meant what I said, I'll always be around on this board if you ever reach a point where you want to chat about, and are working towards, recovery [from ED or anything else])
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 23:16:33
In reply to No, not hate » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on November 24, 2006, at 21:51:41
Some parts of this thread are making me feel really really super extremely bad. Someone make me feel better.
I sort of want those who were uncivil towards me to apologize. I'll apologize for whatever I did wrong. I'm sorry if I made you feel bad, even though I'm not sure what I did.
Deneb*
Posted by Racer on November 25, 2006, at 0:02:26
In reply to Feeling really super extremely bad, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 23:16:33
> Some parts of this thread are making me feel really really super extremely bad. Someone make me feel better.
I'm sorry you're feeling bad, Deneb, but I have to ask you something: who do you think can make you feel better?
>
> I sort of want those who were uncivil towards me to apologize.Deneb, no one here was uncivil to you. If you believe someone was uncivil in this thread, you know how to report it. I have been watching for it, and I've seen some people get close to the line, but I haven't seen anyone cross it.
What I have seen, though, is that people are being honest about their reactions to your posts, and that sort of honesty is not always pleasant. I hope you can see the distinction between someone being uncivil, and someone saying something you don't want to hear.
Deneb, let me ask you something else. You don't have to answer here on the board, but maybe it's a starting place for you in thinking about whether or not you want to explore treatment options that might help you learn to make yourself feel better: do you see a pattern to your experience on this board? Can you draw any parallels between this experience and others you may have had in the past, whether on this board or another?
Posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 2:20:39
In reply to Re: Feeling really super extremely bad » Deneb, posted by Racer on November 25, 2006, at 0:02:26
I still have a borderline personality. This whole bulimia thing is a part of it.
I'm doing the best I can. Don't be angry at me. I'm sorry for threatening suicide, it's part of my disorder. This whole mess, me not being able to interact well with others, it's all part of my disorder. I'm doing the best I can. Please don't hate me.
Deneb*
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 5:22:49
In reply to I just realized something, posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 2:20:39
Deneb,
I think you know I know a hell of alot about BPD and do consultancy work for our government in the area.
Threatening suicide is ~not~ part of the disorder.
I won't be posting to you anymore, until you get help. You *have* to get help.
Yes I have been where you are, yes I attempted suicide *alot* (but never, ever, once threatened someone else with it).. But, I put my energies into fighting to get the care, help and therapy I needed.. That is what upsets me - your refusal to get help.. I never wanted to continue feeling the way I felt, I never enjoyed it and infact ~hated~ it with a passion. I begged and pleaded for help.. I went to voluntary services only to be turned away.. I went to the government begging for help.. I used charities and an online group specifically for people with BPD - http://www.bpdcentral.com/ BPD Central have a support message board. Give it a try, you might find it more your style than other boards have been.
And, muffled posted a very good post to you on admin explaining why people might get frustrated.. in the thread about this board.
I don't hate you Deneb, I feel frustrated, but there are very very few people I actively hate..
Give BPD Central a try...
Nikki
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 8:03:00
In reply to Re: I just realized something » Deneb, posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 5:22:49
Link to muffled's post..
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061018/msgs/706601.html
And I just wantt o say that I never used BPD Central's mesage boards, I used one for people in the UK (and they have a requirement you are in the UK to join), but know people that have found BPD centrals one very useful..
Nikki
Posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:34:35
In reply to muffled's post, and to clear up.., posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 8:03:00
Nikki the BPD Central forum is for people in relationships with people who have BPD (sometimes diagnosed only by the poster) and feel they have been abused. There is a lot of anger and venting and not altogether accurate information. I do not think it would be at all useful for someone like Deneb. I think it might be quite destructive. At least at a time of crisis.
I really don't think that would be useful at this point much as I hate not to recommend a board called the Nook whose participants call themselves Nookies :).
It's a VERY useful place for people who are trying to get out of relationship with people who are BPD or Narcissistic.I know I know I'm supposed to be self blocked but I did think it was important to point this out.
>
> And I just wantt o say that I never used BPD Central's mesage boards, I used one for people in the UK (and they have a requirement you are in the UK to join), but know people that have found BPD centrals one very useful..
>
> Nikki
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 8:49:53
In reply to BPD Central is not for people with BPD » NikkiT2, posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:34:35
Oh, sorry then.. I know they used to have a forum for people suffering.. but it is a number of years since I visited there..
Let me see where the Americans I know went to then..
Nikki
Posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:51:04
In reply to Please keep it civil, everyone, posted by gardenergirl on November 24, 2006, at 12:30:09
http://www.mirror-mirror.org/applove.htm
Too many people believe that eating disorders are only about food and weight issues, when in reality, those are just the symptoms of underlying problems. Below is a list of some things to keep in mind when approaching someone.
Avoid talking about food and weight, those are not the real issues
Assure them that they are not alone and that you love them and want to help in any way that you can
Encourage them to seek help
Do not comment on their weight or appearanceDo not blame the individual and do not get angry with them
Be patient, recovery takes time
Listen to them, do not be quick to give opinions and advice
Do not take on the role of a therapist
You must also be careful with the remarks you make to the person suffering. Below is a list of a few remarks that should never be made because they will usually only drive the person away or cause them more inner pain and guilt.
"Why are you doing this to me?" We aren't doing this to you, we are doing this to ourselves. A comment like that would only cause us more guilt and make us feel worse about ourselves.
"You're just doing this for attention." We do not do this for attention. Most people with eating disorders would be happy to just keep it a secret from everyone. People with eating disorders are in a lot of emotional pain and this is their way of dealing with it. They need to be encourage to seek help, they do not need to be told they are only doing it for attention
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 11:24:15
In reply to How to Support and Help, posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:51:04
http://www.bpdresources.com/supportBPs.html#MixedBoards
as it has loads of online resources for north america based BPD support..
Nikki
Posted by ClearSkies on November 25, 2006, at 11:33:17
In reply to How to Support and Help, posted by zazenducky on November 25, 2006, at 8:51:04
Thank you for posting this, Zazenducky. I know that I have been pretty inept in trying to give support to those suffering with ED. I feel like I repeatedly insert my foot into my mouth.
Now I have a better appreciation of what's helpful and what isn't.ClearSkies
Posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 16:30:39
In reply to someone sent me this..., posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 11:24:15
Do you want me to go away to another forum? I don't want to go away. I like it here.
I want you to accept me for who I am. I'm already getting help. Are you going to ignore me until I "get better", whatever that means?
The more people tell me to get help, the more I will resist getting help. You can't tell me what to do. You can't force me to do anything.
I'm angry and confused. I'm throwing a tantrum. I don't know what I want. I don't know what I'm saying. I'm just throwing a fit. I'm angry. I'll say anything.
I feel abandoned.
When I was little my Mom would try to get me to eat when I didn't want to. The more she tried the more I didn't want to eat. But if she took away the food I'll cry and cry because I want the food.
Deneb*
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2006, at 16:36:07
In reply to Throwing a tantrum, posted by Deneb on November 25, 2006, at 16:30:39
I offered you *additional* support deneb.
Not instead of.. but *additional*.
Go forward in thread:
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