![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 89 to 113 of 138. Go back in thread:
Posted by fayeroe on March 16, 2008, at 13:17:19
In reply to Re: Willful neglect » fayeroe, posted by SLS on March 16, 2008, at 12:21:00
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 13:19:05
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott's and to others-lighehbhil?, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 12:11:57
> > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> >
> > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> >
> > What can't you do while he is not here?
> >
> > He has no duty to make you happy.
> >
> > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> >
> > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> >
> > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> >
> > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> >
> > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Friends,
> It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> Lou
>friends,
It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 13:36:34
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott's and to others-droughem, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 13:19:05
> > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > >
> > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > >
> > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > >
> > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > >
> > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > >
> > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > >
> > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > >
> > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > >
> > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Friends,
> > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > Lou
> >
>
> friends,
> It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> Lou
>Friends,
Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 13:49:41
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott's and to others-tips, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 13:36:34
> > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > >
> > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > >
> > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > >
> > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > >
> > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > >
> > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > >
> > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > >
> > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > Lou
> > >
> >
> > friends,
> > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > Lou
> >
>
> Friends,
> Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> Lou
>
>
Friends,
Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
Posted by Deputy Racer on March 16, 2008, at 13:53:45
In reply to Re: Willful neglect DNP to me, Scott (nm) » SLS, posted by fayeroe on March 16, 2008, at 13:17:19
The guidelines of this site require that requests that someone not post directly to you be made privately, through the notification system. This policy is explained in the FAQ for this site, and can be found here: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#harassed Because your post above violates this policy, which has been in place for some time, I'm going to ask you to be civil according to the guidelines for this site. Please don't post anything which could lead others to feel accused or put down, including requests not to post to you.
If you have any questions regarding the posting policies on this site, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil Follow ups to this action should be directed to the Administration board and should themselves be civil.
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over all administrative issues on this site, and may choose at any time to revise or reverse any action taken by a deputy.
Deputy Racer
Posted by fayeroe on March 16, 2008, at 14:11:48
In reply to Please follow board guidelines » fayeroe, posted by Deputy Racer on March 16, 2008, at 13:53:45
I've been out of the loop for a long time and I apologize for posting on the board.
However, I also filled out the form and surely it has been reviewed by now?
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 14:35:20
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott's and to others-xpurtz, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 13:49:41
> > > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > > >
> > > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > > >
> > > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > > >
> > > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > > >
> > > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > > >
> > > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - Scott
> > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > > Lou
> > > >
> > >
> > > friends,
> > > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > > Lou
> > >
> >
> > Friends,
> > Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> > Lou
> >
> >
> Friends,
> Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
>
>
> friends,
Here is a link where it is th epotential IMO for some others to think that Dr. Hsiung is writing about medication.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60424.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 15:26:56
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott's and to others-tkdtdrg, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 14:35:20
> > > > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Scott
> > > > >
> > > > > Friends,
> > > > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > > > Lou
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > friends,
> > > > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > > > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > > > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > > > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > > > Lou
> > > >
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> > > Lou
> > >
> > >
> > Friends,
> > Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
> > Lou
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
> >
> >
> > friends,
> Here is a link where it is th epotential IMO for some others to think that Dr. Hsiung is writing about medication.
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60424.htmlFriends,
Here is a link to one of Dr. Hsiung's guest experts that members could read about the drug Serzone. Dr. Kramer writes:
A. Serzone's liver problems are quite rare
B. Serzone is a good drug
Now that was written here in 2002
In 2004, Serzone was taken off the market 9citation sz1) because
C.liver failure (people die from liver failure and there were 21 deaths linked to Serzone in the US, one possible, a 15 year old girl).
D.The FDA had forced the manufacturer in 2002 to add a serious liver warning, but problems continued
E. The drug was taken off the market in Europe, New Zealand, Austrailia and Canada and was continued to be prescribed in the US.
Now let us reason together here. Has not Dr. Hsiung allowed this post to remain without being updated in the thread that it appears? If so, could a member here be influenced to think that Serzone is a good drug as Dr. Hsiung's expert guest , Dr. Kramer, writes? Could it be determined as to if Dr. Kramer knew about the taking off from the market the drug in 2002 in Europe? Even though the drug has been taken off the market in 2004 in the US, could there be now some people in the US that have shelved the drug in 2004 think that they can reinstate it now if they have no knowlege of that the drug has been taken off the market?
Lou
citation sz1
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/eveningnews/main612150.shtml
Posted by gardenergirl on March 16, 2008, at 15:47:20
In reply to Re: Willful neglect, posted by SLS on March 16, 2008, at 10:38:33
> If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
I'm probably answering this too broadly, as I'm thinking of what I need from Dr. Bob at all, not necessarily as a visible presence on the boards. But anyway, here goes in no particular order:
1. Pay the bills so the boards stay open and accessible.
2. Technical maintenance to fix any problems and improve functioning as needed.
3. Support and supervise the deputies, which means adequate communication with them, accessibility to them, and respect for their contributions and unique role.
4. Act on admin issues that the deputies are not able to, for whatever reason, or adapting roles or rules to make the need for him to step in a rare event.
>
> What can't you do while he is not here?Can't think of anything. I'm pretty content at the moment.
>
> Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.The only effect I've been aware of this time is just reacting to others' reactions. Now when I was a deputy, Bob's absences had much more of an effect on me. Happily, that isn't the case now.
So that's what I've got, just about my reactions, as I certainly can't speak for anyone else. I'm right there with you, Scott, about the problem with trying to express a global consensus here.
gg
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 15:48:56
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott and to others-huduutnkurfun?, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 15:26:56
> > > > > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Scott
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > > > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > > > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > > > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > > > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > > > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > > > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > > > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > friends,
> > > > > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > > > > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > > > > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > > > > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > > > > Lou
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > > Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> > > > Lou
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Friends,
> > > Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
> > >
> > >
> > > friends,
> > Here is a link where it is th epotential IMO for some others to think that Dr. Hsiung is writing about medication.
> > Lou
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60424.html
>
> Friends,
> Here is a link to one of Dr. Hsiung's guest experts that members could read about the drug Serzone. Dr. Kramer writes:
> A. Serzone's liver problems are quite rare
> B. Serzone is a good drug
> Now that was written here in 2002
> In 2004, Serzone was taken off the market 9citation sz1) because
> C.liver failure (people die from liver failure and there were 21 deaths linked to Serzone in the US, one possible, a 15 year old girl).
> D.The FDA had forced the manufacturer in 2002 to add a serious liver warning, but problems continued
> E. The drug was taken off the market in Europe, New Zealand, Austrailia and Canada and was continued to be prescribed in the US.
> Now let us reason together here. Has not Dr. Hsiung allowed this post to remain without being updated in the thread that it appears? If so, could a member here be influenced to think that Serzone is a good drug as Dr. Hsiung's expert guest , Dr. Kramer, writes? Could it be determined as to if Dr. Kramer knew about the taking off from the market the drug in 2002 in Europe? Even though the drug has been taken off the market in 2004 in the US, could there be now some people in the US that have shelved the drug in 2004 think that they can reinstate it now if they have no knowlege of that the drug has been taken off the market?
> Lou
> citation sz1
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/eveningnews/main612150.shtml
>
Friends,
Serzone was known to cause liver failure well befor 2004 and was taken off the market in 2003 in Europe, Canada, Austrialia and New Zealand.
But the drug could be still available in the U.S. as a generic and I do not know if it is or is not availble as this is written, but it could be.
You see, that drug is from a chemical class called the Phenylpiperazines that I have been wanting to post about here. If one was prescribed a generic form of Serzone, how likely in your opinions could it be that a person receiving the drug as a generic could know that it was a phenylpiperazine as like Serzone if it still being prescribed?
I ask in your opinions, could (you could email me for this if you like)
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 16:01:58
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott and to others-tkurdgnsvem, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 15:48:56
> > > > > > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - Scott
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > > > > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > > > > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > > > > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > > > > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > > > > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > > > > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > > > > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > friends,
> > > > > > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > > > > > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > > > > > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > > > > > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Friends,
> > > > > Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> > > > > Lou
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > > Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
> > > > Lou
> > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > friends,
> > > Here is a link where it is th epotential IMO for some others to think that Dr. Hsiung is writing about medication.
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60424.html
> >
> > Friends,
> > Here is a link to one of Dr. Hsiung's guest experts that members could read about the drug Serzone. Dr. Kramer writes:
> > A. Serzone's liver problems are quite rare
> > B. Serzone is a good drug
> > Now that was written here in 2002
> > In 2004, Serzone was taken off the market 9citation sz1) because
> > C.liver failure (people die from liver failure and there were 21 deaths linked to Serzone in the US, one possible, a 15 year old girl).
> > D.The FDA had forced the manufacturer in 2002 to add a serious liver warning, but problems continued
> > E. The drug was taken off the market in Europe, New Zealand, Austrailia and Canada and was continued to be prescribed in the US.
> > Now let us reason together here. Has not Dr. Hsiung allowed this post to remain without being updated in the thread that it appears? If so, could a member here be influenced to think that Serzone is a good drug as Dr. Hsiung's expert guest , Dr. Kramer, writes? Could it be determined as to if Dr. Kramer knew about the taking off from the market the drug in 2002 in Europe? Even though the drug has been taken off the market in 2004 in the US, could there be now some people in the US that have shelved the drug in 2004 think that they can reinstate it now if they have no knowlege of that the drug has been taken off the market?
> > Lou
> > citation sz1
> > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/eveningnews/main612150.shtml
> >
> Friends,
> Serzone was known to cause liver failure well befor 2004 and was taken off the market in 2003 in Europe, Canada, Austrialia and New Zealand.
> But the drug could be still available in the U.S. as a generic and I do not know if it is or is not availble as this is written, but it could be.
> You see, that drug is from a chemical class called the Phenylpiperazines that I have been wanting to post about here. If one was prescribed a generic form of Serzone, how likely in your opinions could it be that a person receiving the drug as a generic could know that it was a phenylpiperazine as like Serzone if it still being prescribed?
> I ask in your opinions, could (you could email me for this if you like)
> Loufriends,
Here is the link to the post by DR. Kramer where he writes,[...Serzon's liver problems...are quite rare...] and,[...Serzone is a good drug...].
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020327/msgs/101267.html
Posted by Toph on March 16, 2008, at 16:31:21
In reply to Re: Willful neglect, posted by SLS on March 16, 2008, at 10:38:33
> Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing.
If you've been here 8 years, does he owe you anything for the research profitted off you and your contemporaries?
>Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
>
I do. but I think you might have just dissed the monerators there.> If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
>I don't want him here, I just want to hear what he has to say about the last several pages of admin posts.
> What can't you do while he is not here?
>
Huh?> He has no duty to make you happy.
>
Really, that's what I was hoping he could do for me. How disappointing.> In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
>
My car needs washing.
> Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
>
Most of the time, not at all. Lately, it pisses me off.
> So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
>
> What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
>
> I hear children whining. It must be me.
>
> - ScottThough maybe an unfair analogy, one could ask why do we need George Bush? He doesn't do much for me personally, but as a citizen, if Dick Chaney resigned, you can bet W's handlers would fashion a statement for the president to offer so as to reassure the masses that our country was in order without Halliburton man. I feel that I have a right to expect that the country's executive govern. Unfortunately, Bob doesn't govern here anymore like he did when you were first attracted to this place. It would be nice if he told us why he doesn't and why he has not intention of doing so again, even when there is a problem.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 16:45:41
In reply to Dereliction of duty, posted by Toph on March 16, 2008, at 16:31:21
> > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing.
>
> If you've been here 8 years, does he owe you anything for the research profitted off you and your contemporaries?
>
> >Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> >
> I do. but I think you might have just dissed the monerators there.
>
> > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> >
>
> I don't want him here, I just want to hear what he has to say about the last several pages of admin posts.
>
> > What can't you do while he is not here?
> >
> Huh?
>
> > He has no duty to make you happy.
> >
> Really, that's what I was hoping he could do for me. How disappointing.
>
> > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> >
> My car needs washing.
>
> > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> >
> Most of the time, not at all. Lately, it pisses me off.
>
> > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> >
> > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> >
> > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Though maybe an unfair analogy, one could ask why do we need George Bush? He doesn't do much for me personally, but as a citizen, if Dick Chaney resigned, you can bet W's handlers would fashion a statement for the president to offer so as to reassure the masses that our country was in order without Halliburton man. I feel that I have a right to expect that the country's executive govern. Unfortunately, Bob doesn't govern here anymore like he did when you were first attracted to this place. It would be nice if he told us why he doesn't and why he has not intention of doing so again, even when there is a problem.Toph,
You wrote,[...maybe an unfair analogy...]
I think that to make that determination as to what it could mean to be fair or unfair, we could look at the meaning of {fair}.
The generally accepted meaning of fair is that fairness is compared to impartiallity, free from self-interest and/or prejudice.
In your presentation of G.W Bush as the one in the analogy leaving and the analogy as I see it is about leaving, then you write as to what if he left, I do not know of anything in your analogy that I can see that could {rule out} that the analogy is a {fair} one. I may be mistaken and if anyone could post here what could rule out the analogy being fair, I would appreciate that, for I can not see any partiality or prejudice or self-interest in Yoph's post.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 16:49:09
In reply to Lou's reply to Toph's post-calaspasp » Toph, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 16:45:41
> > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing.
> >
> > If you've been here 8 years, does he owe you anything for the research profitted off you and your contemporaries?
> >
> > >Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > >
> > I do. but I think you might have just dissed the monerators there.
> >
> > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > >
> >
> > I don't want him here, I just want to hear what he has to say about the last several pages of admin posts.
> >
> > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > >
> > Huh?
> >
> > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > >
> > Really, that's what I was hoping he could do for me. How disappointing.
> >
> > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > >
> > My car needs washing.
> >
> > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > >
> > Most of the time, not at all. Lately, it pisses me off.
> >
> > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > >
> > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > >
> > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Though maybe an unfair analogy, one could ask why do we need George Bush? He doesn't do much for me personally, but as a citizen, if Dick Chaney resigned, you can bet W's handlers would fashion a statement for the president to offer so as to reassure the masses that our country was in order without Halliburton man. I feel that I have a right to expect that the country's executive govern. Unfortunately, Bob doesn't govern here anymore like he did when you were first attracted to this place. It would be nice if he told us why he doesn't and why he has not intention of doing so again, even when there is a problem.
>
> Toph,
> You wrote,[...maybe an unfair analogy...]
> I think that to make that determination as to what it could mean to be fair or unfair, we could look at the meaning of {fair}.
> The generally accepted meaning of fair is that fairness is compared to impartiallity, free from self-interest and/or prejudice.
> In your presentation of G.W Bush as the one in the analogy leaving and the analogy as I see it is about leaving, then you write as to what if he left, I do not know of anything in your analogy that I can see that could {rule out} that the analogy is a {fair} one. I may be mistaken and if anyone could post here what could rule out the analogy being fair, I would appreciate that, for I can not see any partiality or prejudice or self-interest in Yoph's post.
> Lou
>Friends,
The statement ,[...in Yoph's post...] is a typographical error and should read,[...in Toph's post..].
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 17:00:36
In reply to Lou's reply to Toph's post-correction, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 16:49:09
> > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing.
> > >
> > > If you've been here 8 years, does he owe you anything for the research profitted off you and your contemporaries?
> > >
> > > >Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > >
> > > I do. but I think you might have just dissed the monerators there.
> > >
> > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't want him here, I just want to hear what he has to say about the last several pages of admin posts.
> > >
> > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > >
> > > Huh?
> > >
> > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > >
> > > Really, that's what I was hoping he could do for me. How disappointing.
> > >
> > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > >
> > > My car needs washing.
> > >
> > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > >
> > > Most of the time, not at all. Lately, it pisses me off.
> > >
> > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > >
> > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > >
> > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > > Though maybe an unfair analogy, one could ask why do we need George Bush? He doesn't do much for me personally, but as a citizen, if Dick Chaney resigned, you can bet W's handlers would fashion a statement for the president to offer so as to reassure the masses that our country was in order without Halliburton man. I feel that I have a right to expect that the country's executive govern. Unfortunately, Bob doesn't govern here anymore like he did when you were first attracted to this place. It would be nice if he told us why he doesn't and why he has not intention of doing so again, even when there is a problem.
> >
> > Toph,
> > You wrote,[...maybe an unfair analogy...]
> > I think that to make that determination as to what it could mean to be fair or unfair, we could look at the meaning of {fair}.
> > The generally accepted meaning of fair is that fairness is compared to impartiallity, free from self-interest and/or prejudice.
> > In your presentation of G.W Bush as the one in the analogy leaving and the analogy as I see it is about leaving, then you write as to what if he left, I do not know of anything in your analogy that I can see that could {rule out} that the analogy is a {fair} one. I may be mistaken and if anyone could post here what could rule out the analogy being fair, I would appreciate that, for I can not see any partiality or prejudice or self-interest in Yoph's post.
> > Lou
> >
>
> Friends,
> The statement ,[...in Yoph's post...] is a typographical error and should read,[...in Toph's post..].
> LouFriends,
In that I see that Toph's post is about leaving, it is about if Chaney left and then what would a statement by G.W. Bush be.
In an analogy, the subject here is about the leaving of the one in charge. I may have misunderstood who it was that was leaving as it being Chaney. The overall point that I see though is that a statement was fashioned by the Bush team to give to the public because of a leaving and giving a {statement to reassure}, and leaving is what is in analogy here as well as a statement to reassure in this case.
Lou
Posted by SLS on March 16, 2008, at 17:54:12
In reply to My answers » SLS, posted by gardenergirl on March 16, 2008, at 15:47:20
Hi GG.
I thank you for answering a simple, straight-foward question with an attentive and deliberated response.
I happen to agree with your appraisal of Psycho-Babble and the responsibilities of its administration. However, I was hoping to have as great a number of responses to my questions as there are complainants against Psycho-Babble.
Yes, these are our boards.
No, we don't own them.
Yes, participation is voluntary.
No, we do not make up the rules.
Yes, the manner in which Psycho-Babble is administered appears to be legal.
No, correspondences between deputies and the owner of this site are not required to be disclosed. No such responsibility exists.
Yes, Dr. Bob and his deputies actively moderate the boards.
No, Dr. Bob has no responsibility to shape the posting environment to comply with the wishes of the participants.
Yes, be grateful for the existence of Psycho-Babble.
No, don't listen to a word I have to say.
* Would anyone else care to describe how Dr. Hsiung's transient absences have impacted on their life?
Perhaps answering this question will afford others to respond constructively to address an individual's issues and circumstances. Instead of attempting to represent a collective, perhaps we can represent ourselves first.
- Scott
-----------------------------------------------
> > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
>
> I'm probably answering this too broadly, as I'm thinking of what I need from Dr. Bob at all, not necessarily as a visible presence on the boards. But anyway, here goes in no particular order:
> 1. Pay the bills so the boards stay open and accessible.
> 2. Technical maintenance to fix any problems and improve functioning as needed.
> 3. Support and supervise the deputies, which means adequate communication with them, accessibility to them, and respect for their contributions and unique role.
> 4. Act on admin issues that the deputies are not able to, for whatever reason, or adapting roles or rules to make the need for him to step in a rare event.
> >
> > What can't you do while he is not here?
>
> Can't think of anything. I'm pretty content at the moment.
>
> >
> > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
>
> The only effect I've been aware of this time is just reacting to others' reactions. Now when I was a deputy, Bob's absences had much more of an effect on me. Happily, that isn't the case now.
>
> So that's what I've got, just about my reactions, as I certainly can't speak for anyone else. I'm right there with you, Scott, about the problem with trying to express a global consensus here.
>
> gg
>
Posted by SLS on March 16, 2008, at 18:03:48
In reply to Dereliction of duty, posted by Toph on March 16, 2008, at 16:31:21
The world is round (more or less). As inconvenient as this fact is for cartographers, they do not lobby that it be flat. Who would they lobby? Perhaps they demand of God divine intervention. Afterall, God owes them at least that for their hard work and good intentions.
Nobody owes you anything except your freedom.
Does that help at all?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 20:20:51
In reply to Citation for post by Dr. Kramer-LLhzgdshd?, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 16:01:58
> > > > > > > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - Scott
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > > > > > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > > > > > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > > > > > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > > > > > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > > > > > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > > > > > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > > > > > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > friends,
> > > > > > > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > > > > > > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > > > > > > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > > > > > > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Friends,
> > > > > Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
> > > > > Lou
> > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > friends,
> > > > Here is a link where it is th epotential IMO for some others to think that Dr. Hsiung is writing about medication.
> > > > Lou
> > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60424.html
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > Here is a link to one of Dr. Hsiung's guest experts that members could read about the drug Serzone. Dr. Kramer writes:
> > > A. Serzone's liver problems are quite rare
> > > B. Serzone is a good drug
> > > Now that was written here in 2002
> > > In 2004, Serzone was taken off the market 9citation sz1) because
> > > C.liver failure (people die from liver failure and there were 21 deaths linked to Serzone in the US, one possible, a 15 year old girl).
> > > D.The FDA had forced the manufacturer in 2002 to add a serious liver warning, but problems continued
> > > E. The drug was taken off the market in Europe, New Zealand, Austrailia and Canada and was continued to be prescribed in the US.
> > > Now let us reason together here. Has not Dr. Hsiung allowed this post to remain without being updated in the thread that it appears? If so, could a member here be influenced to think that Serzone is a good drug as Dr. Hsiung's expert guest , Dr. Kramer, writes? Could it be determined as to if Dr. Kramer knew about the taking off from the market the drug in 2002 in Europe? Even though the drug has been taken off the market in 2004 in the US, could there be now some people in the US that have shelved the drug in 2004 think that they can reinstate it now if they have no knowlege of that the drug has been taken off the market?
> > > Lou
> > > citation sz1
> > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/eveningnews/main612150.shtml
> > >
> > Friends,
> > Serzone was known to cause liver failure well befor 2004 and was taken off the market in 2003 in Europe, Canada, Austrialia and New Zealand.
> > But the drug could be still available in the U.S. as a generic and I do not know if it is or is not availble as this is written, but it could be.
> > You see, that drug is from a chemical class called the Phenylpiperazines that I have been wanting to post about here. If one was prescribed a generic form of Serzone, how likely in your opinions could it be that a person receiving the drug as a generic could know that it was a phenylpiperazine as like Serzone if it still being prescribed?
> > I ask in your opinions, could (you could email me for this if you like)
> > Lou
>
> friends,
> Here is the link to the post by DR. Kramer where he writes,[...Serzon's liver problems...are quite rare...] and,[...Serzone is a good drug...].
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020327/msgs/101267.htmlFriends,
It is written here,[...consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the internet...].
There is IMO a difference between the unmoderated blogs on the internet and this forum, a great difference.
You see, this forum was innitiated in a mamnner that some could think that the University of Chicago was involved in it. I came to the forum because I thought that and would like being part of a university forum. I still think that even though that may not be the case now, but I still think that it is and was. And I thought the the forum was moderated then and I still think that it is moderated now.
Being that that may be the case here, I think that the moderator/owner has crreated an expectation for those that come here to receive support and education and that if the moderator is not available, that some equivalent support mechinisms could be put into place to replace the support that is not available from the moderator, such as another psychiatrist to moderate.
It is written here,[...never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice...]. What is {medical advice}? Has it been given here by Dr. Hsiung and do people rely on receiving that advice as {support} for the psychological/emotional states that they are in to prevent them from sliding deeper into dispair and hopelessness? Psychiatrists and psychologists write about a support system being withdrawn and what could or could not be the results to the one seeking support. There are posts here by members that write about their feelings from this situation here that when I read them, I wish that I could do something for them. I really do.
But my voice here is like a tinkling cymbal compared to the resounding voice of the moderator that they have listened to, some for years. They could rely on that voice even if they do not know that they are according to some psychiatrists/psychologists that have researched the effects of long-term participation in an ideology. You see, indoctrination to an ideology can happen and it does as history has recorded. Books have been written as to what happens to members of groups where the manner of thinking of the group is concerning theories and concepts. Could not the members of the group rely on the thinking of the leader as they participate over the years and see what type of thinking is good for the community as a whole according to the leader that also asks for members to trust him in what he does? What can happen to some of the members when that trust or confidence is in doubt?
Books have been written concerning that. How many times can we read a History book depicting that situation? How many times can we see the news record that situation happining. How many times...?...the wind...
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 21:32:08
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott and others-thewnd, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 20:20:51
> > > > > > > > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Scott
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > > > > > > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > > > > > > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > > > > > > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > > > > > > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > > > > > > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > > > > > > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > > > > > > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > friends,
> > > > > > > > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > > > > > > > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > > > > > > > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > > > > > > > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > friends,
> > > > > Here is a link where it is th epotential IMO for some others to think that Dr. Hsiung is writing about medication.
> > > > > Lou
> > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60424.html
> > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > > Here is a link to one of Dr. Hsiung's guest experts that members could read about the drug Serzone. Dr. Kramer writes:
> > > > A. Serzone's liver problems are quite rare
> > > > B. Serzone is a good drug
> > > > Now that was written here in 2002
> > > > In 2004, Serzone was taken off the market 9citation sz1) because
> > > > C.liver failure (people die from liver failure and there were 21 deaths linked to Serzone in the US, one possible, a 15 year old girl).
> > > > D.The FDA had forced the manufacturer in 2002 to add a serious liver warning, but problems continued
> > > > E. The drug was taken off the market in Europe, New Zealand, Austrailia and Canada and was continued to be prescribed in the US.
> > > > Now let us reason together here. Has not Dr. Hsiung allowed this post to remain without being updated in the thread that it appears? If so, could a member here be influenced to think that Serzone is a good drug as Dr. Hsiung's expert guest , Dr. Kramer, writes? Could it be determined as to if Dr. Kramer knew about the taking off from the market the drug in 2002 in Europe? Even though the drug has been taken off the market in 2004 in the US, could there be now some people in the US that have shelved the drug in 2004 think that they can reinstate it now if they have no knowlege of that the drug has been taken off the market?
> > > > Lou
> > > > citation sz1
> > > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/eveningnews/main612150.shtml
> > > >
> > > Friends,
> > > Serzone was known to cause liver failure well befor 2004 and was taken off the market in 2003 in Europe, Canada, Austrialia and New Zealand.
> > > But the drug could be still available in the U.S. as a generic and I do not know if it is or is not availble as this is written, but it could be.
> > > You see, that drug is from a chemical class called the Phenylpiperazines that I have been wanting to post about here. If one was prescribed a generic form of Serzone, how likely in your opinions could it be that a person receiving the drug as a generic could know that it was a phenylpiperazine as like Serzone if it still being prescribed?
> > > I ask in your opinions, could (you could email me for this if you like)
> > > Lou
> >
> > friends,
> > Here is the link to the post by DR. Kramer where he writes,[...Serzon's liver problems...are quite rare...] and,[...Serzone is a good drug...].
> > Lou
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020327/msgs/101267.html
>
> Friends,
> It is written here,[...consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the internet...].
> There is IMO a difference between the unmoderated blogs on the internet and this forum, a great difference.
> You see, this forum was innitiated in a mamnner that some could think that the University of Chicago was involved in it. I came to the forum because I thought that and would like being part of a university forum. I still think that even though that may not be the case now, but I still think that it is and was. And I thought the the forum was moderated then and I still think that it is moderated now.
> Being that that may be the case here, I think that the moderator/owner has crreated an expectation for those that come here to receive support and education and that if the moderator is not available, that some equivalent support mechinisms could be put into place to replace the support that is not available from the moderator, such as another psychiatrist to moderate.
> It is written here,[...never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice...]. What is {medical advice}? Has it been given here by Dr. Hsiung and do people rely on receiving that advice as {support} for the psychological/emotional states that they are in to prevent them from sliding deeper into dispair and hopelessness? Psychiatrists and psychologists write about a support system being withdrawn and what could or could not be the results to the one seeking support. There are posts here by members that write about their feelings from this situation here that when I read them, I wish that I could do something for them. I really do.
> But my voice here is like a tinkling cymbal compared to the resounding voice of the moderator that they have listened to, some for years. They could rely on that voice even if they do not know that they are according to some psychiatrists/psychologists that have researched the effects of long-term participation in an ideology. You see, indoctrination to an ideology can happen and it does as history has recorded. Books have been written as to what happens to members of groups where the manner of thinking of the group is concerning theories and concepts. Could not the members of the group rely on the thinking of the leader as they participate over the years and see what type of thinking is good for the community as a whole according to the leader that also asks for members to trust him in what he does? What can happen to some of the members when that trust or confidence is in doubt?
> Books have been written concerning that. How many times can we read a History book depicting that situation? How many times can we see the news record that situation happining. How many times...?...the wind...
> LouFriends,
It is written here,[...what do we need (Mr. Hsiung) for?...].
The {we} could be all the members and in the set of all the members is a subset of members that Robert Hsiung referrs to as the {less-confident}. This subset of members has been accomodated by Robert Hsiung to have a rule made so that one can not post more than 3 consecutive posts with some exceptions, I guess so they will feel supported in respect to being able to be easier to join in according to the TOS here.
Now I reason from that action that he has taken to accommodate the less confident to mean that he could like those members to have particular rules made for them.
I think that if there is the concern for those members, that there is another subset of members that could have their conditions worsened by him leaving the forum and not replacing himself with another psychiatrist/psychologist because of the support that some members could think that thay lose without the leader active. In answer to Scott's question then as to what {we} need bob for could be that there could be those that do need bob and those that do not. I ask, if Scott does not need bob, does that mean that all members could also not need bob?
Lou
Posted by Toph on March 16, 2008, at 21:32:10
In reply to Re: Dereliction of duty » Toph, posted by SLS on March 16, 2008, at 18:03:48
> Nobody owes you anything except your freedom.
>I wish you had been my divorce judge, Scott.
Where did the word "owe" come from anyway - did I ever use that word? I think I simply proposed that Bob say something because it would be a good idea.
Oh, and Lou, I was making an analogy, lame as it may be, between Chaney and Dinah resigning (lame because while Dinah may block her friends, I don't think she would shoot them like Dick does, lol).
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 21:34:08
In reply to Re: Dereliction of duty, posted by Toph on March 16, 2008, at 21:32:10
Posted by Toph on March 17, 2008, at 9:25:24
In reply to Re: Dereliction of duty, posted by Toph on March 16, 2008, at 21:32:10
In rereading my post I want to clarify that I didn't mean to suggest that Dinah gets any glee out of blocking her friends.
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 17:33:39
In reply to Re: Dereliction of duty, posted by Toph on March 17, 2008, at 9:25:24
I didn't take it in any bad way. :)
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2008, at 17:35:00
In reply to Citation for post by Dr. Kramer-LLhzgdshd?, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 16:01:58
> > > > > > > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - Scott
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > > > > > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > > > > > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > > > > > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > > > > > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > > > > > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > > > > > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > > > > > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > friends,
> > > > > > > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > > > > > > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > > > > > > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > > > > > > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Friends,
> > > > > Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
> > > > > Lou
> > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > friends,
> > > > Here is a link where it is th epotential IMO for some others to think that Dr. Hsiung is writing about medication.
> > > > Lou
> > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60424.html
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > Here is a link to one of Dr. Hsiung's guest experts that members could read about the drug Serzone. Dr. Kramer writes:
> > > A. Serzone's liver problems are quite rare
> > > B. Serzone is a good drug
> > > Now that was written here in 2002
> > > In 2004, Serzone was taken off the market 9citation sz1) because
> > > C.liver failure (people die from liver failure and there were 21 deaths linked to Serzone in the US, one possible, a 15 year old girl).
> > > D.The FDA had forced the manufacturer in 2002 to add a serious liver warning, but problems continued
> > > E. The drug was taken off the market in Europe, New Zealand, Austrailia and Canada and was continued to be prescribed in the US.
> > > Now let us reason together here. Has not Dr. Hsiung allowed this post to remain without being updated in the thread that it appears? If so, could a member here be influenced to think that Serzone is a good drug as Dr. Hsiung's expert guest , Dr. Kramer, writes? Could it be determined as to if Dr. Kramer knew about the taking off from the market the drug in 2002 in Europe? Even though the drug has been taken off the market in 2004 in the US, could there be now some people in the US that have shelved the drug in 2004 think that they can reinstate it now if they have no knowlege of that the drug has been taken off the market?
> > > Lou
> > > citation sz1
> > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/eveningnews/main612150.shtml
> > >
> > Friends,
> > Serzone was known to cause liver failure well befor 2004 and was taken off the market in 2003 in Europe, Canada, Austrialia and New Zealand.
> > But the drug could be still available in the U.S. as a generic and I do not know if it is or is not availble as this is written, but it could be.
> > You see, that drug is from a chemical class called the Phenylpiperazines that I have been wanting to post about here. If one was prescribed a generic form of Serzone, how likely in your opinions could it be that a person receiving the drug as a generic could know that it was a phenylpiperazine as like Serzone if it still being prescribed?
> > I ask in your opinions, could (you could email me for this if you like)
> > Lou
>
> friends,
> Here is the link to the post by DR. Kramer where he writes,[...Serzon's liver problems...are quite rare...] and,[...Serzone is a good drug...].
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020327/msgs/101267.htmlfriends,
Scott wrote that he has never seen medical advice given by Mr. Hsiung here.
On the opening page of the {medicine} board, it writes that you can clik on the name of several medicines to get infomation about that drug. Mr. Hsiung has his photographic image on the top of the page. This could IMO give some people the idea that what is on the page is placed there by Mr. Hsiung for the benifit of the members.
When you clck on the drug Serzone (citation sz2) you get a list of many of the things that one could like to know about that drug. Is it advice? The generally accepted meaning of {advice} is that there is infomation given that could help one make a decision. Here in this section about drugs, there is infomation that could IMO help one to make a decision as to take the drug or not. But there is not the infomation there that the drug has been associated with numerous deaths due to liver failure and that the drug was taken off the market in Europe, the U.S. in Canada, Austrailia and New Zealand around 2003-4. So is the advice such that one could have an imformed body of knowlege to make an well-informed decision as to take the drug or not in your opinions? Also, is there not the aspect of that there may be the generic equivalent that could be given by a general practioner that also may not be aware of the drug being taken off the market? Then I ask, why is the section that is on the opening page of the board called Medicine not accurate in terms of this situation that deaths could occure from liver failure by taking the drug?
Lou
citation sz2
http://dr-bob.org/tips/nefazodone.html#side-effects
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2008, at 18:07:14
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott's post-dnthtdthrod, posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2008, at 17:35:00
> > > > > > > > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Scott
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > > > > > > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > > > > > > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > > > > > > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > > > > > > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > > > > > > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > > > > > > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > > > > > > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > friends,
> > > > > > > > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > > > > > > > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > > > > > > > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > > > > > > > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > friends,
> > > > > Here is a link where it is th epotential IMO for some others to think that Dr. Hsiung is writing about medication.
> > > > > Lou
> > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60424.html
> > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > > Here is a link to one of Dr. Hsiung's guest experts that members could read about the drug Serzone. Dr. Kramer writes:
> > > > A. Serzone's liver problems are quite rare
> > > > B. Serzone is a good drug
> > > > Now that was written here in 2002
> > > > In 2004, Serzone was taken off the market 9citation sz1) because
> > > > C.liver failure (people die from liver failure and there were 21 deaths linked to Serzone in the US, one possible, a 15 year old girl).
> > > > D.The FDA had forced the manufacturer in 2002 to add a serious liver warning, but problems continued
> > > > E. The drug was taken off the market in Europe, New Zealand, Austrailia and Canada and was continued to be prescribed in the US.
> > > > Now let us reason together here. Has not Dr. Hsiung allowed this post to remain without being updated in the thread that it appears? If so, could a member here be influenced to think that Serzone is a good drug as Dr. Hsiung's expert guest , Dr. Kramer, writes? Could it be determined as to if Dr. Kramer knew about the taking off from the market the drug in 2002 in Europe? Even though the drug has been taken off the market in 2004 in the US, could there be now some people in the US that have shelved the drug in 2004 think that they can reinstate it now if they have no knowlege of that the drug has been taken off the market?
> > > > Lou
> > > > citation sz1
> > > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/eveningnews/main612150.shtml
> > > >
> > > Friends,
> > > Serzone was known to cause liver failure well befor 2004 and was taken off the market in 2003 in Europe, Canada, Austrialia and New Zealand.
> > > But the drug could be still available in the U.S. as a generic and I do not know if it is or is not availble as this is written, but it could be.
> > > You see, that drug is from a chemical class called the Phenylpiperazines that I have been wanting to post about here. If one was prescribed a generic form of Serzone, how likely in your opinions could it be that a person receiving the drug as a generic could know that it was a phenylpiperazine as like Serzone if it still being prescribed?
> > > I ask in your opinions, could (you could email me for this if you like)
> > > Lou
> >
> > friends,
> > Here is the link to the post by DR. Kramer where he writes,[...Serzon's liver problems...are quite rare...] and,[...Serzone is a good drug...].
> > Lou
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020327/msgs/101267.html
>
> friends,
> Scott wrote that he has never seen medical advice given by Mr. Hsiung here.
> On the opening page of the {medicine} board, it writes that you can clik on the name of several medicines to get infomation about that drug. Mr. Hsiung has his photographic image on the top of the page. This could IMO give some people the idea that what is on the page is placed there by Mr. Hsiung for the benifit of the members.
> When you clck on the drug Serzone (citation sz2) you get a list of many of the things that one could like to know about that drug. Is it advice? The generally accepted meaning of {advice} is that there is infomation given that could help one make a decision. Here in this section about drugs, there is infomation that could IMO help one to make a decision as to take the drug or not. But there is not the infomation there that the drug has been associated with numerous deaths due to liver failure and that the drug was taken off the market in Europe, the U.S. in Canada, Austrailia and New Zealand around 2003-4. So is the advice such that one could have an imformed body of knowlege to make an well-informed decision as to take the drug or not in your opinions? Also, is there not the aspect of that there may be the generic equivalent that could be given by a general practioner that also may not be aware of the drug being taken off the market? Then I ask, why is the section that is on the opening page of the board called Medicine not accurate in terms of this situation that deaths could occure from liver failure by taking the drug?
> Lou
> citation sz2
> http://dr-bob.org/tips/nefazodone.html#side-effectsFriends,
Now on the board called medication, there are many medicines listed to click on to get infomation concerning the drug, which IMO could have the potential to be considered by some to be advice about the drug. Another of the drugs is Remeron. Clicking on the link gives infomation but is there the FDA's warning that drugs of that class and others could have the increased risk of suicide to those that take the drug? If not, why not, in your opinons.
The FDA issued a second warning in 2005 that people taking antidepressant drugs be monitored for signs of suicidal thoughts and deepening depression. The FDA ordered manufacturers to place a warning on the lables of all antidepressants detailing those heightened risks (citation FDA1). There has been more about this since 2005.
Now is there this warning from the FDA in Mr. Hsiung's offering infomation about these drugs? If not, why not in your opinions? Is the offering to members to click on the links to get infomation about these drugs considered to be medical advice in your opinions?
Lou
citation FDA1
http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/1199/0
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
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