Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 21:32:08
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott and others-thewnd, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2008, at 20:20:51
> > > > > > > > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Scott
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > > > > > > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > > > > > > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > > > > > > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > > > > > > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > > > > > > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > > > > > > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > > > > > > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > friends,
> > > > > > > > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > > > > > > > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > > > > > > > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > > > > > > > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > friends,
> > > > > Here is a link where it is th epotential IMO for some others to think that Dr. Hsiung is writing about medication.
> > > > > Lou
> > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60424.html
> > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > > Here is a link to one of Dr. Hsiung's guest experts that members could read about the drug Serzone. Dr. Kramer writes:
> > > > A. Serzone's liver problems are quite rare
> > > > B. Serzone is a good drug
> > > > Now that was written here in 2002
> > > > In 2004, Serzone was taken off the market 9citation sz1) because
> > > > C.liver failure (people die from liver failure and there were 21 deaths linked to Serzone in the US, one possible, a 15 year old girl).
> > > > D.The FDA had forced the manufacturer in 2002 to add a serious liver warning, but problems continued
> > > > E. The drug was taken off the market in Europe, New Zealand, Austrailia and Canada and was continued to be prescribed in the US.
> > > > Now let us reason together here. Has not Dr. Hsiung allowed this post to remain without being updated in the thread that it appears? If so, could a member here be influenced to think that Serzone is a good drug as Dr. Hsiung's expert guest , Dr. Kramer, writes? Could it be determined as to if Dr. Kramer knew about the taking off from the market the drug in 2002 in Europe? Even though the drug has been taken off the market in 2004 in the US, could there be now some people in the US that have shelved the drug in 2004 think that they can reinstate it now if they have no knowlege of that the drug has been taken off the market?
> > > > Lou
> > > > citation sz1
> > > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/eveningnews/main612150.shtml
> > > >
> > > Friends,
> > > Serzone was known to cause liver failure well befor 2004 and was taken off the market in 2003 in Europe, Canada, Austrialia and New Zealand.
> > > But the drug could be still available in the U.S. as a generic and I do not know if it is or is not availble as this is written, but it could be.
> > > You see, that drug is from a chemical class called the Phenylpiperazines that I have been wanting to post about here. If one was prescribed a generic form of Serzone, how likely in your opinions could it be that a person receiving the drug as a generic could know that it was a phenylpiperazine as like Serzone if it still being prescribed?
> > > I ask in your opinions, could (you could email me for this if you like)
> > > Lou
> >
> > friends,
> > Here is the link to the post by DR. Kramer where he writes,[...Serzon's liver problems...are quite rare...] and,[...Serzone is a good drug...].
> > Lou
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020327/msgs/101267.html
>
> Friends,
> It is written here,[...consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the internet...].
> There is IMO a difference between the unmoderated blogs on the internet and this forum, a great difference.
> You see, this forum was innitiated in a mamnner that some could think that the University of Chicago was involved in it. I came to the forum because I thought that and would like being part of a university forum. I still think that even though that may not be the case now, but I still think that it is and was. And I thought the the forum was moderated then and I still think that it is moderated now.
> Being that that may be the case here, I think that the moderator/owner has crreated an expectation for those that come here to receive support and education and that if the moderator is not available, that some equivalent support mechinisms could be put into place to replace the support that is not available from the moderator, such as another psychiatrist to moderate.
> It is written here,[...never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice...]. What is {medical advice}? Has it been given here by Dr. Hsiung and do people rely on receiving that advice as {support} for the psychological/emotional states that they are in to prevent them from sliding deeper into dispair and hopelessness? Psychiatrists and psychologists write about a support system being withdrawn and what could or could not be the results to the one seeking support. There are posts here by members that write about their feelings from this situation here that when I read them, I wish that I could do something for them. I really do.
> But my voice here is like a tinkling cymbal compared to the resounding voice of the moderator that they have listened to, some for years. They could rely on that voice even if they do not know that they are according to some psychiatrists/psychologists that have researched the effects of long-term participation in an ideology. You see, indoctrination to an ideology can happen and it does as history has recorded. Books have been written as to what happens to members of groups where the manner of thinking of the group is concerning theories and concepts. Could not the members of the group rely on the thinking of the leader as they participate over the years and see what type of thinking is good for the community as a whole according to the leader that also asks for members to trust him in what he does? What can happen to some of the members when that trust or confidence is in doubt?
> Books have been written concerning that. How many times can we read a History book depicting that situation? How many times can we see the news record that situation happining. How many times...?...the wind...
> LouFriends,
It is written here,[...what do we need (Mr. Hsiung) for?...].
The {we} could be all the members and in the set of all the members is a subset of members that Robert Hsiung referrs to as the {less-confident}. This subset of members has been accomodated by Robert Hsiung to have a rule made so that one can not post more than 3 consecutive posts with some exceptions, I guess so they will feel supported in respect to being able to be easier to join in according to the TOS here.
Now I reason from that action that he has taken to accommodate the less confident to mean that he could like those members to have particular rules made for them.
I think that if there is the concern for those members, that there is another subset of members that could have their conditions worsened by him leaving the forum and not replacing himself with another psychiatrist/psychologist because of the support that some members could think that thay lose without the leader active. In answer to Scott's question then as to what {we} need bob for could be that there could be those that do need bob and those that do not. I ask, if Scott does not need bob, does that mean that all members could also not need bob?
Lou
poster:Lou Pilder
thread:817501
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080313/msgs/818379.html