![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 24 to 48 of 102. Go back in thread:
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 23, 2010, at 20:16:19
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 23, 2010, at 17:11:51
Seriously, if your problem is brief, recurrent depressions rather than chronic severe depression (which was my problem), CBT or DBT are the way to go. Learn how to manage your response to it. Tell yourself this will end, you won't always feel this way. I agree. Why mess with potential side effects if you can manage your emotions with therapy?
Posted by linkadge on July 23, 2010, at 21:02:05
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by emmanuel98 on July 23, 2010, at 20:16:19
Therapy doesn't seem to do anything for me to prevent the episodes, or really modify their sevarity for that matter.
My mother is bipolar, so that diagnosis has been thrown around.
I think I'm just going to continue with meds on an as needed basis. They've been working fairly well that way.
Linkadge
Posted by morgan miller on July 23, 2010, at 21:26:38
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by SLS on July 23, 2010, at 14:32:17
Ya know, after re-reading that study I think I will still consider Nortriptyline as an adjunct therapy.
Posted by inanimate peanut on July 23, 2010, at 22:49:24
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 23, 2010, at 16:12:44
If the side effects are the problem, every one of us has side effects for almost every drug we take. Talk about that and stop trying to scare people off nortriptyline by talking about BBB effects that only happen at toxic levels anyway. At least by talking about the real side effects, people can look at them and say they do/don't have them, could/could not tolerate and do/do not believe that they would be worth it to feel better re depression. You have the luxury of using drugs to make you better from time to time when you feel down. There are some of us whose lives are not worth living without these drugs. I know that some of my drugs and especially the combinations of some of my drugs are making me decidedly less healthy but I also know that I either wouldn't be alive or would wish I weren't if I stopped taking them, so I don't have the same luxury you do of only taking what makes me feel "healthy." Just remember that the people that you may be scaring off trying drugs with posts like this may or may not truly *need* that drug for basic quality of life.
Posted by SLS on July 24, 2010, at 5:19:17
In reply to Re: toxic crap » SLS, posted by morgan miller on July 23, 2010, at 21:26:38
> Ya know, after re-reading that study I think I will still consider Nortriptyline as an adjunct therapy.
One important fact to note is that barbiturate anesthesias by themselves alter BBB function. This complicates the interpretation of the results of the study. It is possible that nortriptyline has no BBB effects in the absence of barbiturate.
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on July 24, 2010, at 7:25:19
In reply to toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 22, 2010, at 20:15:37
This assumes that our blood brain barriers are not already compromised. I don't think that is a realistic assumption. The handful of top contenders behind depression all have brain barrier damage in their physiology.
Even Tylenol is toxic. I am not convinced there is any man made chemical that is not toxic in one way or another.
Most of the big players in the plant world have practically zero toxicity even in super mega doses. I think meds at low doses are often essetial, but that the true healing does not happen until a comprehensive approach with plants is added.
> Great, so nortriptyline apprently f's up the blood brain barrier. Well, it was good while it lasted.
>
> Linkadge
>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WXH-4DDNKY2-6J&_user=10&_coverDate=09%2F30%2F1973&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1409078450&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=088b8e050d84472601ea2e78c375b888
>
>
Posted by polarbear206 on July 24, 2010, at 10:48:01
In reply to Re: toxic crap » linkadge, posted by inanimate peanut on July 23, 2010, at 22:49:24
> If the side effects are the problem, every one of us has side effects for almost every drug we take. Talk about that and stop trying to scare people off nortriptyline by talking about BBB effects that only happen at toxic levels anyway. At least by talking about the real side effects, people can look at them and say they do/don't have them, could/could not tolerate and do/do not believe that they would be worth it to feel better re depression. You have the luxury of using drugs to make you better from time to time when you feel down. There are some of us whose lives are not worth living without these drugs. I know that some of my drugs and especially the combinations of some of my drugs are making me decidedly less healthy but I also know that I either wouldn't be alive or would wish I weren't if I stopped taking them, so I don't have the same luxury you do of only taking what makes me feel "healthy." Just remember that the people that you may be scaring off trying drugs with posts like this may or may not truly *need* that drug for basic quality of life.
You know, I really feel that there should be another site on here for posters to talk toxic tantrum crap to each other. You know, my great grandmother didn't have the luxury of medication and she died in a mental institution. My mother never got to know her. It's very sad. I am so thankful for medication to be able to FUNCTION normally in daily life and not live in a vegetated state.I have patients that have been on tricyclics since they were on the market that don't have any ADVERSE side effects. I took Imipramine for years before Effexor came on the market.
And to Inanimate Peanut, kudos to your response, I'm right there with ya.
Posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 14:20:43
In reply to Re: toxic crap » linkadge, posted by inanimate peanut on July 23, 2010, at 22:49:24
Sure, it happens at a toxic level (~10 times the theraputic level), but the effects were immediate. I would assume that using the medication at 1/10 this for years could produce similar effects.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 14:23:53
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by polarbear206 on July 24, 2010, at 10:48:01
Well, whatever does it for you.
Linkadge
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2010, at 14:52:33
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by polarbear206 on July 24, 2010, at 10:48:01
> > If the side effects are the problem, every one of us has side effects for almost every drug we take. Talk about that and stop trying to scare people off nortriptyline by talking about BBB effects that only happen at toxic levels anyway. At least by talking about the real side effects, people can look at them and say they do/don't have them, could/could not tolerate and do/do not believe that they would be worth it to feel better re depression. You have the luxury of using drugs to make you better from time to time when you feel down. There are some of us whose lives are not worth living without these drugs. I know that some of my drugs and especially the combinations of some of my drugs are making me decidedly less healthy but I also know that I either wouldn't be alive or would wish I weren't if I stopped taking them, so I don't have the same luxury you do of only taking what makes me feel "healthy." Just remember that the people that you may be scaring off trying drugs with posts like this may or may not truly *need* that drug for basic quality of life.
>
>
> You know, I really feel that there should be another site on here for posters to talk toxic tantrum crap to each other. You know, my great grandmother didn't have the luxury of medication and she died in a mental institution. My mother never got to know her. It's very sad. I am so thankful for medication to be able to FUNCTION normally in daily life and not live in a vegetated state.
>
> I have patients that have been on tricyclics since they were on the market that don't have any ADVERSE side effects. I took Imipramine for years before Effexor came on the market.
>
> And to Inanimate Peanut, kudos to your response, I'm right there with ya.pb206,
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. Ifyou could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. In,[...I have patients..]
1a. Are you someone that has the authority to prescribe drugs by law?
2a. If so, what is yur title?
B. In,[...been on tricyclics (for 50 years?)and do not have any ADVERSE side effects..]
1b. redacted by respondent
2b. is there a journal report of these people that you could post a link to here?
C.In, [...I took (a tricyclic) for years...]
1c. Assuming that you are not one of the paitients that you refer to as taking these drugs for (50?) years without adverse effects, but you could be a patient of another prescriber of psychotropic drugs, are you included or not included in those that {don't have any AVERSE side effects?
D. In,[...before Effexor came on the market...]
1d. If you are substituting Effexor for the tricyclic,what was the primary reason you discontinued the tricyclic, if you did so?
2d. If I find out the reason, if any, then I could ask if you advise others to substitute Effexor for a tricyclic, if you did so. If so, what could be the reason for that advice and if not, what was your reason for the substitution if there was one?
E. In,[...for posters to talk xxxx yyyyyy zzzz...]
e1. My research shows that about 36,000 people die yearly from psychotropic drugs in one way or another. This statistic is unkniwn to me if it is or is not just in the U.S. If not, then interpolation could mean that about 500,000 people die each year from psychotropic drugs. If that is so, then milllions of people will die fromn psychotropic drugs in the future.
e1. Could you post your rationale here for stateing that you want another site for those that you consider to be xxxxx yyyyy zzzz?
e2. there is now a warning about the possibility of many psychotropic drugs to induce a mind-alterd state that could cause the one taking the drug to want to kill thenmselves.
(redacted by respondent) If one was posting here about that, would that content be (redacted by respondent)
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2010, at 15:17:56
In reply to Lou's request-gvmelboargvmedth » polarbear206, posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2010, at 14:52:33
> > > If the side effects are the problem, every one of us has side effects for almost every drug we take. Talk about that and stop trying to scare people off nortriptyline by talking about BBB effects that only happen at toxic levels anyway. At least by talking about the real side effects, people can look at them and say they do/don't have them, could/could not tolerate and do/do not believe that they would be worth it to feel better re depression. You have the luxury of using drugs to make you better from time to time when you feel down. There are some of us whose lives are not worth living without these drugs. I know that some of my drugs and especially the combinations of some of my drugs are making me decidedly less healthy but I also know that I either wouldn't be alive or would wish I weren't if I stopped taking them, so I don't have the same luxury you do of only taking what makes me feel "healthy." Just remember that the people that you may be scaring off trying drugs with posts like this may or may not truly *need* that drug for basic quality of life.
> >
> >
> > You know, I really feel that there should be another site on here for posters to talk toxic tantrum crap to each other. You know, my great grandmother didn't have the luxury of medication and she died in a mental institution. My mother never got to know her. It's very sad. I am so thankful for medication to be able to FUNCTION normally in daily life and not live in a vegetated state.
> >
> > I have patients that have been on tricyclics since they were on the market that don't have any ADVERSE side effects. I took Imipramine for years before Effexor came on the market.
> >
> > And to Inanimate Peanut, kudos to your response, I'm right there with ya.
>
> pb206,
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. Ifyou could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. In,[...I have patients..]
> 1a. Are you someone that has the authority to prescribe drugs by law?
> 2a. If so, what is yur title?
> B. In,[...been on tricyclics (for 50 years?)and do not have any ADVERSE side effects..]
> 1b. redacted by respondent
> 2b. is there a journal report of these people that you could post a link to here?
> C.In, [...I took (a tricyclic) for years...]
> 1c. Assuming that you are not one of the paitients that you refer to as taking these drugs for (50?) years without adverse effects, but you could be a patient of another prescriber of psychotropic drugs, are you included or not included in those that {don't have any AVERSE side effects?
> D. In,[...before Effexor came on the market...]
> 1d. If you are substituting Effexor for the tricyclic,what was the primary reason you discontinued the tricyclic, if you did so?
> 2d. If I find out the reason, if any, then I could ask if you advise others to substitute Effexor for a tricyclic, if you did so. If so, what could be the reason for that advice and if not, what was your reason for the substitution if there was one?
> E. In,[...for posters to talk xxxx yyyyyy zzzz...]
> e1. My research shows that about 36,000 people die yearly from psychotropic drugs in one way or another. This statistic is unkniwn to me if it is or is not just in the U.S. If not, then interpolation could mean that about 500,000 people die each year from psychotropic drugs. If that is so, then milllions of people will die fromn psychotropic drugs in the future.
> e1. Could you post your rationale here for stateing that you want another site for those that you consider to be xxxxx yyyyy zzzz?
> e2. there is now a warning about the possibility of many psychotropic drugs to induce a mind-alterd state that could cause the one taking the drug to want to kill thenmselves.
> (redacted by respondent) If one was posting here about that, would that content be (redacted by respondent)
> LouFriends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread or paralle thead, I would like for you to look at the video here to discuss facts.
Lou
You can view this video by:
A. bring up google
B. Key in
[youtube, fatal overdose with effexor]
you will see a woman with a red dress on
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2010, at 15:58:47
In reply to Lou's request-sgtphriedhy, posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2010, at 15:17:56
> > > > If the side effects are the problem, every one of us has side effects for almost every drug we take. Talk about that and stop trying to scare people off nortriptyline by talking about BBB effects that only happen at toxic levels anyway. At least by talking about the real side effects, people can look at them and say they do/don't have them, could/could not tolerate and do/do not believe that they would be worth it to feel better re depression. You have the luxury of using drugs to make you better from time to time when you feel down. There are some of us whose lives are not worth living without these drugs. I know that some of my drugs and especially the combinations of some of my drugs are making me decidedly less healthy but I also know that I either wouldn't be alive or would wish I weren't if I stopped taking them, so I don't have the same luxury you do of only taking what makes me feel "healthy." Just remember that the people that you may be scaring off trying drugs with posts like this may or may not truly *need* that drug for basic quality of life.
> > >
> > >
> > > You know, I really feel that there should be another site on here for posters to talk toxic tantrum crap to each other. You know, my great grandmother didn't have the luxury of medication and she died in a mental institution. My mother never got to know her. It's very sad. I am so thankful for medication to be able to FUNCTION normally in daily life and not live in a vegetated state.
> > >
> > > I have patients that have been on tricyclics since they were on the market that don't have any ADVERSE side effects. I took Imipramine for years before Effexor came on the market.
> > >
> > > And to Inanimate Peanut, kudos to your response, I'm right there with ya.
> >
> > pb206,
> > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. Ifyou could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > A. In,[...I have patients..]
> > 1a. Are you someone that has the authority to prescribe drugs by law?
> > 2a. If so, what is yur title?
> > B. In,[...been on tricyclics (for 50 years?)and do not have any ADVERSE side effects..]
> > 1b. redacted by respondent
> > 2b. is there a journal report of these people that you could post a link to here?
> > C.In, [...I took (a tricyclic) for years...]
> > 1c. Assuming that you are not one of the paitients that you refer to as taking these drugs for (50?) years without adverse effects, but you could be a patient of another prescriber of psychotropic drugs, are you included or not included in those that {don't have any AVERSE side effects?
> > D. In,[...before Effexor came on the market...]
> > 1d. If you are substituting Effexor for the tricyclic,what was the primary reason you discontinued the tricyclic, if you did so?
> > 2d. If I find out the reason, if any, then I could ask if you advise others to substitute Effexor for a tricyclic, if you did so. If so, what could be the reason for that advice and if not, what was your reason for the substitution if there was one?
> > E. In,[...for posters to talk xxxx yyyyyy zzzz...]
> > e1. My research shows that about 36,000 people die yearly from psychotropic drugs in one way or another. This statistic is unkniwn to me if it is or is not just in the U.S. If not, then interpolation could mean that about 500,000 people die each year from psychotropic drugs. If that is so, then milllions of people will die fromn psychotropic drugs in the future.
> > e1. Could you post your rationale here for stateing that you want another site for those that you consider to be xxxxx yyyyy zzzz?
> > e2. there is now a warning about the possibility of many psychotropic drugs to induce a mind-alterd state that could cause the one taking the drug to want to kill thenmselves.
> > (redacted by respondent) If one was posting here about that, would that content be (redacted by respondent)
> > Lou
>
> Friends,
> If you are considering being a discussant in this thread or paralle thead, I would like for you to look at the video here to discuss facts.
> Lou
> You can view this video by:
> A. bring up google
> B. Key in
> [youtube, fatal overdose with effexor]
> you will see a woman with a red dress onFriends,
There are facts concerning taking psychoactive chemicals. Here is a video that is from a doctor thatI would like for you to view so that we could incorporate any facts into this discussion.
Lou
You could view this video by:
A. bring up google
B. key in:
[youtube, Dr. Gary Kohls, SSRI Drugs are]
if you see a picture of Dr. Kohles, it could be the first one. He will be talking about what could happen to a person that takes those drugs from a doctors perspective.
Posted by SLS on July 24, 2010, at 16:35:30
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 14:20:43
> Sure, it happens at a toxic level (~10 times the theraputic level), but the effects were immediate. I would assume that using the medication at 1/10 this for years could produce similar effects.
Precisely what effects? What are the negative consequences of the effects reported by the 1972 study?
Is there any scientific basis for making this assumption? Is that how the numbers work?
You are a very frustrating man to deal with, Linkadge. Everyone wants you to get well. Maybe you will ultimately know what is best for you to do. I hope so. However, it looks to me like you are abandoning a rare opportunity to attain remission by using a treatment that has been deemed safe by the medical community for decades.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on July 24, 2010, at 16:53:27
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 14:20:43
>Sure, it happens at a toxic level (~10 times the theraputic level), but the effects were immediate. I would assume that using the medication at 1/10 this for years could produce similar effects.
Linkadge, the study proves absolutely nothing - it wouldn't be wise to make any assumptions. If you were planning on anesthetising yourself with a potent barbiturate and then injecting a concentrated solution of nortriptyline into your carotid artery, the study may have greater relevence. Additionally, you are not a rat.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on July 24, 2010, at 17:07:35
In reply to Lou's request-gvmelboargvmedth » polarbear206, posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2010, at 14:52:33
Lou, have you ever considered the possibility that if you asked fewer questions in one go, it might be easier for people to respond accordingly?
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2010, at 17:10:53
In reply to Lou's request-dhafax-Kolz, posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2010, at 15:58:47
> > > > > If the side effects are the problem, every one of us has side effects for almost every drug we take. Talk about that and stop trying to scare people off nortriptyline by talking about BBB effects that only happen at toxic levels anyway. At least by talking about the real side effects, people can look at them and say they do/don't have them, could/could not tolerate and do/do not believe that they would be worth it to feel better re depression. You have the luxury of using drugs to make you better from time to time when you feel down. There are some of us whose lives are not worth living without these drugs. I know that some of my drugs and especially the combinations of some of my drugs are making me decidedly less healthy but I also know that I either wouldn't be alive or would wish I weren't if I stopped taking them, so I don't have the same luxury you do of only taking what makes me feel "healthy." Just remember that the people that you may be scaring off trying drugs with posts like this may or may not truly *need* that drug for basic quality of life.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You know, I really feel that there should be another site on here for posters to talk toxic tantrum crap to each other. You know, my great grandmother didn't have the luxury of medication and she died in a mental institution. My mother never got to know her. It's very sad. I am so thankful for medication to be able to FUNCTION normally in daily life and not live in a vegetated state.
> > > >
> > > > I have patients that have been on tricyclics since they were on the market that don't have any ADVERSE side effects. I took Imipramine for years before Effexor came on the market.
> > > >
> > > > And to Inanimate Peanut, kudos to your response, I'm right there with ya.
> > >
> > > pb206,
> > > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. Ifyou could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > > A. In,[...I have patients..]
> > > 1a. Are you someone that has the authority to prescribe drugs by law?
> > > 2a. If so, what is yur title?
> > > B. In,[...been on tricyclics (for 50 years?)and do not have any ADVERSE side effects..]
> > > 1b. redacted by respondent
> > > 2b. is there a journal report of these people that you could post a link to here?
> > > C.In, [...I took (a tricyclic) for years...]
> > > 1c. Assuming that you are not one of the paitients that you refer to as taking these drugs for (50?) years without adverse effects, but you could be a patient of another prescriber of psychotropic drugs, are you included or not included in those that {don't have any AVERSE side effects?
> > > D. In,[...before Effexor came on the market...]
> > > 1d. If you are substituting Effexor for the tricyclic,what was the primary reason you discontinued the tricyclic, if you did so?
> > > 2d. If I find out the reason, if any, then I could ask if you advise others to substitute Effexor for a tricyclic, if you did so. If so, what could be the reason for that advice and if not, what was your reason for the substitution if there was one?
> > > E. In,[...for posters to talk xxxx yyyyyy zzzz...]
> > > e1. My research shows that about 36,000 people die yearly from psychotropic drugs in one way or another. This statistic is unkniwn to me if it is or is not just in the U.S. If not, then interpolation could mean that about 500,000 people die each year from psychotropic drugs. If that is so, then milllions of people will die fromn psychotropic drugs in the future.
> > > e1. Could you post your rationale here for stateing that you want another site for those that you consider to be xxxxx yyyyy zzzz?
> > > e2. there is now a warning about the possibility of many psychotropic drugs to induce a mind-alterd state that could cause the one taking the drug to want to kill thenmselves.
> > > (redacted by respondent) If one was posting here about that, would that content be (redacted by respondent)
> > > Lou
> >
> > Friends,
> > If you are considering being a discussant in this thread or paralle thead, I would like for you to look at the video here to discuss facts.
> > Lou
> > You can view this video by:
> > A. bring up google
> > B. Key in
> > [youtube, fatal overdose with effexor]
> > you will see a woman with a red dress on
>
> Friends,
> There are facts concerning taking psychoactive chemicals. Here is a video that is from a doctor thatI would like for you to view so that we could incorporate any facts into this discussion.
> Lou
> You could view this video by:
> A. bring up google
> B. key in:
> [youtube, Dr. Gary Kohls, SSRI Drugs are]
> if you see a picture of Dr. Kohles, it could be the first one. He will be talking about what could happen to a person that takes those drugs from a doctors perspective.Friends,
Another video that I would like for you to see so that the facts in the video could be used in thiis dicussion.
Lou
You can view this video by
A.bring up google
B.type in
[Psychotropic Drugs: The Hidden, D. Gary Kohls]
Posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 19:46:48
In reply to Re: toxic crap » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 24, 2010, at 16:35:30
>You are a very frustrating man to deal with,
Then don't deal with me.
>However, it looks to me like you are abandoning >a rare opportunity to attain remission by using >a treatment that has been deemed safe by the >medical community for decades.
The medical community? Are you certain that what they've done to you is Kosher?
Linkadge
Posted by morgan miller on July 24, 2010, at 19:54:07
In reply to Re: toxic crap » morgan miller, posted by SLS on July 24, 2010, at 5:19:17
> > Ya know, after re-reading that study I think I will still consider Nortriptyline as an adjunct therapy.
>
> One important fact to note is that barbiturate anesthesias by themselves alter BBB function. This complicates the interpretation of the results of the study. It is possible that nortriptyline has no BBB effects in the absence of barbiturate.
>
>
> - ScottI was thinking the same thing.
Posted by morgan miller on July 24, 2010, at 20:08:11
In reply to Re: toxic crap » SLS, posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 19:46:48
Linkage, your illness is most likely more toxic to the health of your mind, body, and soul than any medication that might help you feel better. If you feel well on a regular basis, you can socialize in a healthy way(promotes healing and neurogenesis), you can get proper exercise regularly(promotes neurogenesis, increases levels of key neurotransmitters, and then there are all those other wonderful health benefits), you can get on with your life and live!!! So what is it? Maybe live 5 more years in your old boring as hell age where you can't do much anyway? Or, do whatever it takes to feel great now and live life to it's fullest while you are still young?
Dude, in 2 or 3 weeks you may have really started feeling good on Nortriptyline and whatever mild side effects you were experiencing may have subsided or disappeared completely. Now I guess you will never know.
Please try not to take this the wrong way, but you not only sound angry but super stubborn? Maybe there is a part of you that does not want to feel really good after feeling bad for so long.
Are you sure some form of therapy with the right therapist wouldn't help? It could take 2 or 3 years before you really start to benefit from it. It's a long hard process but well worth it in the end.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on July 24, 2010, at 20:55:57
In reply to Re: toxic crap » SLS, posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 19:46:48
>Then don't deal with me.
Aww Link, Scott only wants to help you.
My opinion is this...
You are clearly extremely concerned about the potential for toxic effects from psychiatric medication. This anxiety is likely to cancel out the benefits (if any) of the medication which you are prescribed. You have posted previously about the potential toxic effects of SSRIs, TCAs and many other medications. So... in your opinion, are there any psychiatric medications which are extremely unlikely to produce toxic effects in the short-term and in the long-term? If so, what are they? And assuming that you've tried them, how do you respond to them?
Ed
Posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 21:53:53
In reply to Re: toxic crap, posted by morgan miller on July 24, 2010, at 19:54:07
>This complicates the interpretation of the >results of the study. It is possible that >nortriptyline has no BBB effects in the absence >of barbiturate.
No, because in a separate reference to this study, they compared nortriptyline and cloropromazine with the barbituate to various doses of diphenhyramine with barbituate. The diphenhydramine (a bicyclic) had no effect at any dose tested, with the barbituate.
See p 33
Linkadge
Posted by morgan miller on July 24, 2010, at 22:03:36
In reply to Re: toxic crap » morgan miller, posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 21:53:53
> >This complicates the interpretation of the >results of the study. It is possible that >nortriptyline has no BBB effects in the absence >of barbiturate.
>
> No, because in a separate reference to this study, they compared nortriptyline and cloropromazine with the barbituate to various doses of diphenhyramine with barbituate. The diphenhydramine (a bicyclic) had no effect at any dose tested, with the barbituate.
>
> See p 33
>
> http://books.google.ca/books?id=9ykQOkpFFuEC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=micellar+drugs+%2B+chlorpromazine+%2B+nortriptyline&source=bl&ots=53da_ifB39&sig=sU02PQmATTVB5BOohvSXgnwf60o&hl=en&ei=_qZLTMeJGoL_8Ab1tYk1&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=micellar%20drugs%20%2B%20chlorpromazine%20%2B%20nortriptyline&f=false
>
> Linkadge
>Sure, but you can't just assume that long term use will eventually lead to increased BBB permeability. Like Scott said, there is no proof for this. Plus, is there any medication does not carry some risk for some type of negative effect in the long run. The way I see it, feel good and take care of yourself, and you may be able to somewhat offset any long term ill effects of meds. Then there is that possibility that a little toxicity may in some way be good for via hormesis. Just trying to look on the bright side.
Posted by SLS on July 25, 2010, at 4:39:28
In reply to Re: toxic crap » morgan miller, posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 21:53:53
> > This complicates the interpretation of the results of the study. It is possible that nortriptyline has no BBB effects in the absence of barbiturate.
> No, because in a separate reference to this study, they compared nortriptyline and cloropromazine with the barbituate to various doses of diphenhyramine with barbituate. The diphenhydramine (a bicyclic) had no effect at any dose tested, with the barbituate.I'm sorry, but I must be missing something. I don't see how the possibility I suggested is logically precluded by what you have written here. If I understand you, the barbiturate was given in conjunction with all of the drugs tested. In any event, you still haven't offered an explanation as to what you are worried about. Even if my suggestion is inconsistent with reality, what are the negative consequences of the effects on the BBB that you suspect nortriptyline might have?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 25, 2010, at 4:49:19
In reply to Re: toxic crap » SLS, posted by linkadge on July 24, 2010, at 19:46:48
> The medical community? Are you certain that what they've done to you is Kosher?
What they have done to me through the well-intentioned misapplication of drugs is to very likely produce permanent treatment resistance. This is a reality that I must deal with every day. Somehow, I do. It may not be logical, but it seems to be rather human.
- Scott
Posted by 49er on July 25, 2010, at 5:38:02
In reply to Re: toxic crap » linkadge, posted by ed_uk2010 on July 23, 2010, at 16:50:07
> Link, I've noticed that whatever meds(s) you take, you always report unusual side effects or worry about toxicity. I don't think you will ever be comfortable with taking medication because you are too worried about adverse effects... either now or potential adverse effects in the future. Perhaps you should take no medication at all?
Hi Linkage,
I agree with this.
As some who used to be on psych meds, here is what I am sensing and you can tell me if I am right or wrong.
I sense that even though you are very concerned about side effects, you see yourself as not having any other choice but to stay on meds. If this is an issue and again, I realize I could be off base, I am here to tell you that it is possible to live med free and do well.
And when I say this, this is not meant as a criticism of people who chose to take meds. I am just saying this is not an either or situation.
If you want to babble me to discuss it further, I would be happy to talk with you.
I have nothing to sell as an FYI.
49er
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.