Posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2010, at 1:10:36
In reply to Re: another block » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2010, at 21:54:27
> If his goal is to have posters take more responsibility for site civility, I'm not sure it is achievable. But I do think that this isn't the way to attempt it, and I wish he'd abandon one that hasn't produced the results he'd want.
>
> If his goal is more limited, to having posters recognize that they are not powerless in the face of the blocks they later protest, I also think this isn't the best choice of words. I think if that is his goal, he ought to just say "People protest blocks, but I don't see many people trying to prevent them. In fact, sometimes I see people encouraging the behaviors that lead to blocks and then complaining that the blocks are unfair. I'd like anyone who objects to blocks to do what they can to prevent them in ways other than protesting the blocks. There are other methods than protests, and they may be more effective. Protesting hasn't proved all that effective."
>
> Dinah> only a couple spoke on babble. That speak,s to me as you wanted me banned, or you didnt give a sh*t. I think thats what bob means about helping each other. The Block didnt hit me hard but the lack of support did.
>
> manic666Thanks for understanding, and for suggesting how I might rephrase my requests.
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> Now as a psychiatrist dont you think to block someone who may not be talking an posting with a clear head is dangerouse to there health,All kinds of damage may follow. the blocked person may become more unwell ,his or her family may suffer, all sorts o f thing could go wrong
>
> manic666I know things could go wrong for the poster. That's why I'd like to see blocks prevented! And why I remind people:
> > In a crisis, please also get help in person.
And why I like that listing compiled by a poster of helpful web pages on coping with crisis:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-tips/links/Coping_with_crisis_001012507973
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> > If anyone starts being unpleasant, the other members calmly convey the message that that isn't appropriate there
>
> Would not such an act here be looked upon as being accusatory?
>
> - ScottMaybe not if it uses I-statements. For example, based on an example I proposed over a year ago:
> > Fayeroe, I'm worried that Dr. Bob isn't going to like what you posted. I care about you, and you're important to this community. Maybe being blocked doesn't bother you, but would you consider apologizing for my sake? I feel sad and traumatized every time he blocks one of us.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090529/msgs/905410.html
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> I find it extremely difficult to do something that someone tells/asks me to do when the "request/guilt/manipulation is upsetting my stomach.
>
> fayeroe> Dinah has been right, surely, about the shaming quality of the requests.
>
> sigismund> My therapy involves accepting that my emotions are a normal reaction to how my parents treated me as a child. That is healing, and that promotes changes in my outlook on life as opposed to someone telling me ... that I am somehow flawed in my way of experiencing the world..rather than someone who has inner pain to work through.
>
> as you probably could picture, being told "if only you were more like Dinah"...might bring up feelings from growing up ... which are very damaging to one's mental health.
>
> violetteI agree, some people may be in too much pain to help others. One of the advantages of a community, however, is that other members may be able to.
I haven't meant to imply that everyone should be more like Dinah -- or like me, for that matter. Each of us has strengths and weaknesses. It may be difficult and even triggering, but acknowledging a weakness could mean an opportunity to learn from someone with a strength.
> > Replace shame with mature guilt. Guilt has often received bad press, and well it should--if, and only if, you are talking about neurotic guilt--guilt that self-flagellates and changes nothing. If you are talking about mature guilt, then guilt is one of the great inventions of nature. For mature guilt lets you know what is unacceptable, and offers you opportunity to do something about it. Shame, on the other hand comes to you as a feeling so deep and so incapable of your getting a grasp on it that it seems there is nothing you can do. To illustrate: John feels shame that he is not the sort of person who can ever excel at his work. Whatever happens, a demotion, a "blowing-out" by his boss, he senses that this is because he is "basically inadequate," so he hangs his head and lowers his eyes and dampens his energy. Finding the "smarts" and the courage to re-evaluate himself as "guilty" of inertia and poor training, he begins to create and achieve goals that are possible for him. So if he sets certain standards, and then if he doesn't achieve them, he can rightly feel guilty that he is failing and can increase his efforts to succeed, or redefine his goals. He has moved into consciousness that his worth can be defined by realistic possibilities, not by the un-focused and "hidden" demands of shame-making expectations.
http://www.psychsight.com/ar-shame.html
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> I think the way he expressed his emotion through songs was healthy and has contributed to his self-growth in a positive way.
> When some people are brought up not allowed to express emotions, I think it's better to express them in that way vs. keeping them inside.
> I probably need to remind myself more often this forum isn't a therapist's office.
>
> violetteExactly, it can be therapeutic to express oneself, but this isn't necessarily the place.
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> Bob, I sure hope that you don't teach classes and use the tactics that you are attempting to use on us.
>
> I think Bob could say "Student A, you are failing this class".
>
> I think that Bob might then say "Class, if Student A fails this class, I will see you as responsible for not trying to help him avoid failing the class".
>
> fayeroeAre posters competing for a good "grade" from me? Is that why they're not helping each other more? This isn't that kind of class. I'd like everyone to pass this class. It's OK to help each other here.
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> do you perhaps see why doing what you wish would not feel caring to Fayeroe?
>
> DinahLike someone who's drunk doesn't feel it's caring not to be allowed to drive?
Bob
a brilliant and reticent Web mastermind -- The New York Times
backpedals well -- PartlyCloudy
poster:Dr. Bob
thread:956448
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20100716/msgs/957430.html