Posted by alexandra_k on December 16, 2013, at 20:11:07
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Willful on December 16, 2013, at 18:16:22
> A lot of this seems to be the result of some sort of chronic disappointment with everyone and and everything that you run up against.
If you had have said this to me several months ago a part of me deep inside would have sadly recognized that this may well be true. And I would have hung my head in shame, rather.
But a few weeks back I moved... And I have not been feeling very much in the way of disappointment with everyone and everything. Instead, everyone and everything seems to be throwing me fairly continuous pleasant surprises.
> You say, essentially, that no one understands you; that a lot of people can't recognize the distinction between understanding and agreeing; that language is merely about social grooming, instead of communication, or understanding, etc-.That was what I found before, yes. They thought I was deficient with respect to my not using language for this purpose, of course.
> But maybe people do understand you-- at least basically--, and what you're really looking for is more than understanding - but something that privileges your needs perhaps, or elevates your perceptions and values.They do understand me now, yes. Part of it is easily checked: Say back to me what you took me to have said to you. Then listen to what they say. Do they have the ability to restate what I just told them using their own words? Before... Not so much. Now... Yes. This isn't to say that they agree with what I'm saying or anything like that... But they at least seem capable of basic understanding / comprehension of it. And that means a lot.
Just as it seems to mean a lot to some people that you be willing to say things like 'oh yeah, absolutely, that person is such a bitch! i hate her too!' and so on... your willingness to agree with contradiction for the sake of agreement and so on... your ability to wear what everyone else is wearing *because* everyone else is wearing it. and so on...
> I'm not sure why you assume that because people don't give you, or don't know how to give you, what you need, that it's some deficiency in them. This is difficult at best in even the most meaningful relationships to achieve. And are you giving people what you think they owe you? I'm just wondering, because maybe your incomprehension of and demands on them are just as unattuned to them as theirs are to you.Perhaps.
I am thinking of (what I remember of) cross cultural research that was done from the 60's... Maybe earlier... They asked the natives (in local language) to answer some questions... They concluded that they weren't able to think hypothetically or they weren't able to reason according to the (valid) logical form of modus ponens or something like that. The research was later critiqued. They said it was culturally biased. The problem was that it was against local custom to speculate on things unseen. Or something like that.
I think there is a difference between can't vs won't. INABILITY to do certain things vs MAKING A CONSCIOUS DECISION to do it or not. There is a difference between refusing to speculate and being unable to speculate. There is a difference between refusing to engage in social grooming and being unable to engage in social grooming. Of course... Some incapacities will only show up in some contexts...
> It's a hard thing to learn to be less judgmental, and more wholehearted and also to see your limitations as creating a big part of what happens. But I wonder if that isn't where you let yourself down, and where all these disappointments in part stem fromCurrently... I am feeling very humbled by my present environment. People seem to be consistently exceeding my expectations rather than my consistently feeling disappointed. I'm not sure what it is...
People who are blind... Unable to process visual information... The part of their cortex that (in sighted people) processes visual information is instead activated in response to different information. Auditory. And / or tactile. Etc. So the person with reduced capacity to process visual information has increased capacity to process non-visual information. Who is deficient / dysfunctional again?
Best thing all conference (someone said something like this and when i questioned them they said my supervisor said it to them): When you have a lot of feedback loops / when change (in the fitness / adaptive landscape) is rapid e.g., in cases of behavior or culture or technology then it might not make sense to talk of what is adaptive vs maladaptive vs different.
I'm paraphrasing. But there it is. My thesis. Lets see if I can make this work...
The strangest thing. Why do I tell you guys all this? Why do I do that? There are communities of people in my field and related ones.. Blogs etc.. Why do I do this stuff here???
poster:alexandra_k
thread:1055625
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20131211/msgs/1056374.html