Posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2008, at 13:49:40
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-LkvFir » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on February 25, 2008, at 23:20:07
> It's funny Lou, but 7 years ago, when I first met you, and had rather fundamentalist, literalist views, I was trying to understand what you were writing about. I remember asking you, and you said it was too shocking for me to comprehend. And, you were right. I had to come to this place, going through what I did (in leaving the institutional system of Christianity), in order to see outside of the "box" that I'd limited myself to. And, amazingly enough, I've come to believe what you're writing here ... and yes, it is shocking to my mind, even as my heart leaps at the new understanding. It's more "caught than taught" in my experience. But once I received it, and stopped fighting it, I came to see it everywhere, even in Scriptures that I thought I already knew and understood.
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> I'm grateful that God has confirmed so many things, in so many ways, including in what you're writing here... I believe He had me meet you many years ago intentionally ... and that this has all been part of His unfolding plan.
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> Amazing...
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> There is one other word that gets translated into "hell" Lou... that's Tartarus/Tartaros... the abyss. Did you want to comment on that, or save it for later?
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> One thing about Gehenna... it was the place of child sacrifice, in honor of Molech, who, it was believed, demanded human sacrifice to appease him. It was an abysmal, horrid practice that was done, and some Jews got caught up in it. God rebuked them harshly, telling them that it never occurred to Him to torture and kill one's own children -- and yet many believe that God will endlessly torment His own children, in "hell"... are we thus denouncing God's character, and thinking Him to be like Molech...?
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> I no longer see God as one who demands that someone be punished, and take His "wrath". I see that we were all dying from a terminal disease -- death which results from sin. And that God, in His mercy, became the very cure that we needed, even dying so that we could live. Because HE loves us. And it's because He loves us that He's so wrathful against the sin which destroys us. I see His wrath as the most severe form of His mercy.
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> We're not objects of His wrath -- we're objects of His love.
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> Shalom, Dena
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> (I hope I'm not taking you off track with my comments, Lou... please continue as you feel led to do.)Dena,
You wrote,[...we are not objects of His wrath -- we're objects of His love...].
When I was on the sand next to the sea, the sea was troubled and dirt was being thrown up into the air. The sea was violent and the sound of the waves made great noise crashing onto the shore. Then I saw the sea turn to bodies of people, millions of them, small and great. The sea was a sea of humanity that the beast came out of. The people were in torment and out from the sea came the beast, the carnal mind, the natural man, Death.. This led me to what Isaiah said,[...the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it can not rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt...there is no peace..to the wicked...]
Then the Rider raised His hand and the sea turned to glass. There was calm and peace.The waters were still.
I said to the Rider, "What meaning is this here?"
The Rider said to me, "The Kingdom of God is peace and joy, a peace that passes all understanding. Peace I leave with you, not as the world gives, give I to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. As you walk through the valley of the Shadow of Death, I will lead you beside the still waters."
Lou
poster:Lou Pilder
thread:799425
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20070227/msgs/814979.html