Posted by KaraS on March 17, 2005, at 8:42:49
In reply to RE: DLPA » KaraS, posted by Elroy on March 16, 2005, at 22:26:37
That's amazing - esp. considering that Effexor has much less NE at starting doses than Cymbalta. For some reason the NE was more available to you from the Effexor. At any rate, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I hope that your nature and deficiencies (as defined by Dr. Braverman) don't require taking meds or supplements that impact NE and would aggrivate this problem.
K
> Well, my NE effects kicked in immediately that same day. By the next afternoon I was in agony. I then went through the same thing with Cymbalta (also an SSNRI) - only it took about a week instead of immediately. I have since "experimented" with anything that "boosts" NE (for example, higher doses of DLPA or even just the L-version alone) and find the the prostatitis type symptoms flare up very quickly. What was amazing was how fast and how severe the Effexor's reaction was.... never had enough time on it to build up any apathy or anything else!
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> > Hi Elroy,
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> > Yes, I'm sure that's why he put Effexor in that category but E. is overwhelmingly serotonergic. The NE isn't supposed to kick in to any appreciable degree until 225 mg. My experience with it (as well as several others I know) is that it does create the SSRI type of apathy. A friend of mine was on 300 mg. and he was very happy but he just couldn't get off of the couch. I think overall that it's dopamine dampening effects far outweight it's dopamine enhancing effects. But this book was written a few years ago and I know I am splitting hairs here. There's so much more in the book. I am enjoying reading it.
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> > K
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> > > Yes, would like to hear back from Franco.....
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> > > Also, you need to remember that dopamine converts to norepinephrine and I know that Effexor does that (as it triggered a severe NE-induced case of prostatitis in me!!!).
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> > >>
> > > > > I thought the level of the book was excellent for a layman's udnerstanding. It sure helped me understand a ton more about theneurotransmitters and what they do and what ones cause what deficiencies and what nutrients are needed to balance and then optimize their functioning.
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> > > > > Don't get me wrong. Dr. Braverman is - as he clearly expresses - not an opponent of pharmaceuticals and believes that there are frequent times when their intervention is an absolute necessity (Lord knows I can relate top that!). Now that being said, he also comments about how his main objective is as often as possible to get his patients (as much as possible) off pharmaceuticals as soon as reasonably able to do so and on to supplements, nutrients, therapy, etc.
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> > > > > But for purposes of understanding - and maybe getting a handle on one's own situation - I'd highly recommend it for any layman. As one example, I was able to clearly understand why SSRI meds - and even SSNRI meds - do NOT work for many depressed persons (and even fewer people with pure anxiety problems) after reading his book....
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> > > > > > > Do some research (Searches) on the substance picamilon (sometimes spelled picamilone). It is a bonding of GABA with naicin that supposedly gets through the brain's blood barrier quite effectively (50%, 70%???). Anyway, quite a bit of interesting information out there about it.
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> > > > > > I've been taking picamilon for a couple of weeks now. I started picamilon, piracetam and selegiline almost at the same time so it's kind of hard to tell whats doing what. I also tripled at least the lecithin I've been taking. Usually I don't like to change more than one thing but the packages came within days of each other so I just dived in. The combination is helping, a little more motivation and a more rational thought process.
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> > > > > > > Also would strongly consider Ativan or even Xanax (in the XR version only) to get the sharp edges of the current anxiety dealt with (and then maybe wean off on to natural substances such as Valeran, Kava, Theanine, etc.).
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> > > > > > I'm afraid to take any benzos, I took valium for a couple of days and it sent me right down. I wasn't particularly depressed right before I took it but it got bad quickly. Maybe a different one would be better but I'm not ready to take that step.
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> > > > > > > And maybe use the Picamilon during that time period to rebuild the GABA neurotransmitters in the brain?
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> > > > > > I hope this will happen.
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> > > > > > > Dr. Braverman's book "The Edge Effect" gets a lot more into the various neurotransmitters and all about correcting deficiencies, balancing and optimizing the four main neurotransmitters. Would highly recommend it.
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> > > > > > Where would you say the level of the book is at? I can't seem to get my head around which receptors in which part of the brain do what and it's not from a lack of trying.
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> > > > > > Thanks
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> > > > I'm reading his book now. I just took the tests and discovered that I am a "GABA nature" and that I have moderate deficiencies in all of the 4 neurotransmitters he deals with. The "GABA nature" was a surprise to me but not the deficiencies. I like his approach in using meds, supplements, lifestyle, diet and CES with the idea of eventually getting you off of meds. I'm still a bit skeptical about the whole idea that we all have a dominant nature and that treatment should revolve around this idea. Also, there are a couple of minor points that I don't think are accurate (i.e. listing Effexor as being dopamine friendly). Overall I think it's interesting, informative and worth a try. I wish that Franco Neuro will come back to PB and post about his progress in working with Dr. Braverman.
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poster:KaraS
thread:452259
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050225/msgs/471974.html