Posted by tealady on October 23, 2004, at 19:57:48
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » tealady, posted by raybakes on October 22, 2004, at 18:02:06
> > >My own practitioner gave me something by jarrow called 'homocysteine pf' yesterday which helped me massively. I talked to her about my concerns about my poor methylation and how it's required for creatine prouction and acidity buffering - so we checked it out and found I was really high in folate (like Jan) but couldn't use it - homocysteine PF got my folate working (checked with kinesiology). As glutamine and methylation improve my fog too, I think part of the 'fogginess' may be because I'm too acid.
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> > I looked up homocysteine PF by Jarrow yesterday(and had a glance at a few other supps you take too)
> > http://www.iherb.com/tmgb12b6tab.html
> >
> > Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine HCI) 15 mg 750%
> > Methyl B12 (Methylcobalamin)250 mcg 4167%
> > Folic Acid 400 mcg 100%
> > Trimethylglycine (TMG) 500 mg (Anhydrous Betaine)
> >
> > so it looks to me like it just has normal Folic acid in it..not the special form you mentioned(FOLINIC ACID (5-formyl tetrahydrofolate))
> > ..but it does have Betaine in the TMG form. Lar takes that on I think..the TMG.
> > Do you think it's the TMG?
> >
> > TMG is another I have to order from O'seas.> >
> > I was taking 500mcg Folic acid together with a multiB for a while..didn't notice any diff..in fact I feel a lot less panicy since dropping the CoQ10 and folic acid (labeled folate..folic acid 500mcg)and more able to cope with some tasks...not big tasks..little things like making a phone call.
> >
> > On another forum I remember now it was found we need NADPH and oxygen to break down glutiathone...bet I'm short there...everything abouyt me keeps coming up with a shortage of NADPH and oxygen, sigh.
> >
> > I'll find the link
> > http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=52183.49
> >
> > oh yes you migh be interested in this too
> > http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=52183.47 ..just to change the topic around
> > I'm a lot better off with more carbs..and I've found more since..just can't remember what or where now, sigh
> > Oh yes on not breaking down chloresterol..another thing I've got..something about the low carb diet preventing chloresterol catabolizing to CoQ10 I think from memory..won't change onto that one!
> >
> >
> > Just to be more complicated..I also have difficulty with all forms of B12..methylcobalamin, hydroxycobalamin injections..my hands turn either bright red or a purply shade and tingly..same with my feet.
> > My Mum's hands go a bit red..not as severe as mine. Happens all the time..not as severe if I keep up with the injections but still happens..that's why when I got my B12 levels up I stopped! I even had multiB's made up w/o the B12 for a while just to see if I felt better.
> > I seem to be fine witha little cyanocobalamin that is in the multiB's over in Oz at present..well I don't notice much diff anyway.
> > This may possiby be a G6PD partial deficiency or perhaps that combined with methaemoglobulin problesm that I seeme to have after a dental anesthetic last year.
> > It's on the forum here last Sept.somewhere. If you have anything like that I could look up the posts..doubt it though. on the other had, if you know what it is, I'd love to know for sure!
> >
> > Found out I don't vasoconstrict...last hole I just skipped the anesthetic..drill felt exactly the same.
> > Today I found out I'm lowish on ADH (Vasopressin)..hence the too little vasoconstriction, sigh
> > yeah I learnt if one has a needle always get the adrenalaine..then take cortisol after I guess to lower it maybe...
> > Gee it makes it err challenging.
> >
> >
> > That's why I'm trying to go to uni to learn enough to figure it out..takes a long time though..especially when I can't just order the tests I need, sigh. Just wish I had a higher fraction of my old brain left to learn and think with.
> >
> > And all these things seem to cause a tad of anxiety, depression etc, LOL
> >
> > Jan
>
>
> Hi Jan, have got to get to bed, so can't answer all your questions today....but yes homocysteine pf only contains folate, but it works wonderfully for me, must be just a good balance for my system.
> I was wrong about folinic acid it's tetrahydrofolate, and not fully activated to it's methyl state. But folate to tetrahydrofolate still needs 4 NADPH molecules, and to make the methyl tetrahydrofolate in needs methyl B12, B2 and another NADPH. when folate is used, it then needs B6, manganese in one step, then B2, NADPH and methyl b12 again - if any one of these is in short supply, it all fails! If your low NADPH, that might be why methyl B12 causes a problem, it might accelerate the decline of NADPH?
----------------------------
****And it begins to come together....tada!****"In plants, FOLIC ACID is formed from a hetero-bicyclic pteride ring, paraaminobenzoic acid (PABA), and GLUTAMIC ACID (see Figure 2).
FOLATE is initially deconjugated in the cells of the intestinal wall to the MONOGLUTAMATE form. This is then reduced to dihydrofolate and then to tetrahydrofolate (THF) via folate and dihydrofolate reductase."Both of these enzymes require NADPH (niacin dependent) as a cofactor.
Serine combines with pyridoxal-5'-phosphate(P5P B6) to transfer a hydroxymethyl group to THF. This results in the formation of 5, 10-methylenetetrahydrofolate (methylene THF) and glycine. (see Figure 3) This molecule is of central importance, being the precursor of the metabolically-active 5- ethyltetrahydrofolate (5-methylTHF, which is involved in homocysteine metabolism) and methy-lidynetetrahydrofolate (involved in purine synthesis), as well as functioning on its own in the generation of THYMINE side chains for incorporation into DNA.Enzyme or cofactor deficiency needed for generation of active folic acid.
Folinic acid (5-formylTHF- available supplementally as calcium folinate—also known as leucovorin calcium) is an immediate precursor to 5, 10 methyleneTHF and 5- methylTHF. Folinic acid is more stable than folic acid and has a longer half-life in the body.
Folinic acid also readily crosses the bloodbrain barrier and is slowly cleared, compared to folic acid, which is poorly transported into the brain, and once in the CNS is rapidly cleared.15
so we have the betaine,
folic acid, glutamine(glutamic acid used in folate canversion)/glutamate ( monoglutamate form of folic acid),
NADPH( both enzymes require NADPH (niacin dependent) as a cofactor),
generation of thymine side chains
pyridoxal-5'-phosphate
methionine"Betaine supplementation has been shown to reduce homocysteine levels while resulting in modest increases of plasma serine and simultaneous increases of plasma cysteine levels.7 Serine levels are depressed in some individuals with excess homocysteine who are treated with folic acid, cobalamin, and vitamin B6"
"Because serine is required for:
1)the conversion of folic acid to its active form,
2) as a shuttle for methyl groups between the cytosol and the mitochondria, and
3) as a cofactor in the trans-sulfuration pathway of methionine/ homocysteine metabolism""Folinic acid also readily crosses the bloodbrain barrier and is slowly cleared, compared to folic acid, which is poorly transported into the brain, and once in the CNS is rapidly cleared."
http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/1-4/homocysteinemetabolism.pdf
poster:tealady
thread:359642
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/406458.html