Posted by Solstice on December 8, 2010, at 10:29:35
In reply to Re: uncivil posts, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2010, at 0:24:38
> My intent wasn't to shame anyone. My intent was to refute a false claim. Otherwise, false claims can lead to misunderstandings:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101014/msgs/971577.html
>
> BobDuring my life I have made my share of false claims that were based more on my subjective feelings about something than on fact. Thank goodness - often enough - one way or another I was confronted with the 'facts.' The shaming I felt in those moments was akin to being caught with my pants down. Maybe in my own arrogance I too quickly made a claim that I presented as fact. When facts come to light that expose the error of the claim, it can feel quite shaming. But where does the shaming come from? Is it the person or situation that exposed the facts? Is it the facts themselves? Or is it our own selves.. maybe we shame ourselves when in our own defensiveness we make very large claims that question the motives of others.. without first making sure.
It is my opinion that it is unwise to make a claim without first verifying that we have sufficient support for the validity of our claim. When we do, we shame ourselves. That isn't necessarily a 'bad' kind of shame. It's probably something that protects our ability to function as a cohesive society. During the learning process I wouldn't have said 'thank goodness' for the shame I felt when I made brash self-protective claims that were false and injurious to another. But after going through the process of revising the way I feel about my own humanity (and my response to my own mistakes/failures), I realized that the shame I felt when the facts refuting my claim were exposed might be a thing. It certainly motivated me to learn to identify my own self-defensive feelings and to take a step back when my feelings were intense. And most important of all, it taught me to do my own self-checking... to verify my claim with facts before I made it.
So this situation, in my opinion, is a call to compassion. I didn't read the links. I was around when most of those things took place, but I don't remember off-hand the specifics. What I do know is that Twinleaf does NOT have to be error-free. Twinleaf can have a 'record' and still be a valued, welcomed, respected, and powerful member of the community. Not only that - Twinleaf, like every single one of us (including Bob) has an inborn desire to be held in good regard by others. So the links Bob posted may have felt bad to Twinleaf - and others on her(? or his?) behalf. But the only person here who has not had times when their claims were confronted with opposing facts are people who have closed their eyes and not looked at the facts that confronted them. We're all in this together. We've all had missteps. And we need not make Bob 'bad' in our circling the wagons around Twinleaf. We can have compassion for how this feels to Twinleaf.. and also recognize that Bob didn't create the facts. The facts are just there. And the only reason he called attention to them was to refute an erroneous claim that, if not refuted, could have created misunderstandings and unnecessary trouble. I've been on both sides of that fence.. and being on either one feels pretty bad.
a very, Very imperfect Solstice
poster:Solstice
thread:971091
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101201/msgs/972916.html