Posted by Dr. Bob on October 10, 2007, at 16:50:42
In reply to Re: Redirect a thread and the 'Eating Forum' » Racer, posted by JLx on August 25, 2007, at 8:06:43
> I mentioned in a post on the Eating board about the dual purpose activities on the Substance board - where those with substance abuse issues post alongside those who are looking for advice on how to best use substance for which they don't have prescriptions. Seemingly at cross purposes, though I feel that the board works well overall. It seems a shame that the Eating board can't find the same, larger community, without causing harm to its members.
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> ClearSkies> to have the feeling ... you must be dx with an ed to post on this page ... when you are looking for some help to figure out if perhaps maybe there is something wrong with you????
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> kk> I think there will always be challenges re: content on the boards, and that is where it is kind of those who recognize a possible trigger, to tag it. I myself have not recognized some of the 'trigger' words used on the eating board. So its up to those who know to help out by posting a trigger warning.
> there WILL be triggers. We just have to be careful. And there have been times when I just have been too fragile to be able to handle babble and just need to stay away awhile. This seems to happen for many. At these times, I can just b-mail a couple of babble buddies for support.
> The longer I am on babble, the more complex I realize it is. It takes time to know when to walk away, and when to RUN! And when to help, and when to let others help. So many complexities.
> I think trigger warnings are a useful and valuable tool and people need not to be nervous or offended by them because we may not always understand what triggers others, and thats OK.
> I also beleive we will be triggered no matter how careful we all are, and that its noones fault. Its just the way it is. Theres alot of people here, with alot of diff issues, so its impossible to avoid.
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> Muffled> In treatment for EDs, mostly we talk about the *feelings* related to food, eating, body issues, etc. We don't talk about eating per se, for the most part.
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> What I would be looking for is a place to discuss the feelings involved, how to be motivated towards recovery, why I hate myself so much, why I associate that with my weight/size, etc. As such, a board about dieting and cheering people on for losing weight, etc, wouldn't be a safe place for me. Every time I read even the subject lines about getting towards a goal weight, I start hating myself even more for my weakness, being fat, etc.
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> Racer> while you could conceivably lump disordered eating into a common category, the psychology between people who are actually obese, or have been, from people who perceive they are when they are not, or who abhor/fear fat so much that they will do drastic things to avoid it, appears to me to be quite different.
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> it can be hard to listen to people talk about the horrors of fat, the terrible meaning of fat ("lazy, a loser, pathetic, ineffectual, self-indulgent, out of control, slovenly") when your actual state is one of being fat. I felt moved to respond in that thread, but my post was obviously out of synch with the others. Which is not to say that I took any of it personally; I recognized the fat hatred as a form of self-hatred. But, otoh, fat hatred and a characterization like that is not just something subjective and SELF-punishing (it can be) but is also something real that we actual fat people get from OUTSIDE ourselves, manifesting itself in job discrimination and so forth. A different perspective, no?
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> When I was in Overeaters Anonymous some years ago, it was emphasized that anyone who had an "obsession with food", including anorexics and bulimics, was welcome and in my small town home meeting we had a regular who was bulimic. This worked because a 12-step program is primarily a spiritual program and all the program guidelines keep discussion and support focused in a certain way. Talk of diets or weight loss goals was frowned upon, for instance, as we were there to recover from obsession with such things. 12-step programs emphasize honesty and our bulimic member said one time that she was "living a lie" because she was as compulsive about food and ate as much as those of us who were fat, but she didn't have the consequences we had. No one knew she ate like that as the overeating didn't manifest so she received approval from society for the state of her body. She felt that that made it harder for her, because she craved that approval and felt recovery meant being willing to possibly give that up, which she found very difficult to imagine. I found that a fascinating insight that increased my compassion and understanding and I offer it here as an example of how a discussion from different perspectives may do that.
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> Just as when I read the Eating board I am frequently moved by the sheer level of self-hatred evidenced by those who post there with "fat" being something of a code word (as I perceive it). Yet I don't feel I have anything to offer to this discussion. It's hard to be actually fat and not hate your fat, and yourself most of the time, yet I know from very hard experience that self-hatred is no motivator for anything but depression, more self-hatred and further dysfunctional eating. So I never talk about being fat and urge myself (as I would suggest to others) to accept myself as I am; accept the fat. Only then can I approximate some peace of mind and potentially move on, which may or may not involve weight loss efforts.
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> I would like a board where I might talk about such things as fat acceptance, either personal or the burgeoning movement. Where I might want to talk about defining oneself as a food addict or a compulsive overeater - accepting reality or a self-defining, self-fulfilling prophesy? About obesity research, about metabolic syndrome. About fat stigma and discrimination. About "obesity epidemic" media hysteria. About a book such as "Rethinking Thin". And yes, where I might also talk about "issues with food" itself -- the whys and wherefores, the hows, whats, and whys of eating, healthy or not.
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> JL> Compulsive overeaters and binge eating disorder sufferers who have become fat are always going to have to be concerned about food in terms of restriction and probably weight loss too, for instance, and are apt to use language and need to talk in ways that may be problematical to those with different eating disorder concerns.
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> There are people who simply want to lose some pounds or who want to just improve their diet for various health reasons and then there are people who have serious issues concerning and surrounding food. Being one of the latter talking to people who are the former can be a very alienating-type experience. There's such comfort and other benefits to be gained from flocking together with your own kind of bird, not just anything-that-flies.
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> JLHi, everyone,
Thanks for all your input. I'm sorry I wasn't able to reply sooner.
I think I'd like to try to stay with one Eating board. I agree, it would be nice if it could be a larger, more accepting community. Do you think that might be possible?
I wonder if an approach like that of the OA group that JL mentioned would work here. A common focus could be on self-hatred associated with weight/size, and a common goal could be self-acceptance. I agree, there would be challenges, but trigger warnings -- and being civil -- would help a lot.
Losing weight and healthy eating would be different goals, and Health would continue to be the board for those discussions.
Bob
poster:Dr. Bob
thread:777193
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20070817/msgs/788344.html