Posted by Racer on July 14, 2005, at 19:43:16
In reply to Lou's response to aspects of this thread-nttoread?, posted by Lou Pilder on July 14, 2005, at 16:12:02
> Friends,
> It is written here,[...I find them disrespectfull...].
> I feel that there are great implications to his writing and I am requesting to him that he delete the part about[..not to read...].I don't happen to agree with this, because I read what Dr Bob wrote as being a reminder to someone else that, if that someone wasn't sure he/she could respond civilly, he/she didn't have to respond at all -- and that, if that wasn't possible because of his/her reactions, maybe not even read the posts in question in the first place. It wasn't about you -- it was about the other poster.
Additionally, most of us here probably don't read every post on the boards. I, for instance, don't read posts on the medication board that involve drugs that I have no information about, unless those posts are written by someone I "know" and care about. I don't read certain types of posts on other boards, either because I don't know that I could be civil if I responded, or simply because the subject doesn't interest me. Dr Bob reminding one person that the civility guidelines here trump the individual's right to self-expression doesn't strike me as having any further implications.
> In studying the causes of the Nazi Holocaust, one of the propaganda techniques used by the Nazis was to defame anyone jewish by stigmatizing them, making others feel enbarraseed to be associate with jews, make people think that the jews could harm them, that the jews are like rats carring disease, viruses that will infect them, that the jews are the cause of their problems. There is nothing to buy from me here, but the only thing that I can offer here is what I write. But if you follow that site, you will se that books were burnt that were not according to the "master race" ideology.
This sort of analogy offends me very deeply, Lou, and I get upset when I read this sort of thing in your posts. To me, it doesn't raise the petty squabbles here at Babble to greater importance -- it cheapens the real suffering of millions of people during the Holocaust. I'm not sure that is quite the message you wish to convey.
I don't think anyone here is asking that anyone else be silent. I don't think that anyone here wants to stifle anyone else's self-expression EXCEPT when that self-expression causes us pain. It's kinda like having the right to free speech, but not having the right to shout "FIRE!!" in a crowded theater.
That said, I am asking you, Lou, please to consider how someone else might react to your posts in which you refer to what happened in Germany half a century ago with what happens here, on these boards. I'm asking you to consider how it might feel for me, when every time I read that sort of thing, I think of people I loved a great deal, nearly all the grown up women around me, many of whom had tatoos from the camps, most of whom had lost loved ones there. When you write that Dr Bob suggesting that someone might want to consider whether or not he or she can read a post without reacting and responding in an uncivil manner, please consider how it might affect others who might have close ties to those events.
For the record, I often find myself crying after reading those references, because of my pain, and grief over loved ones lost -- and over my frustration that those events are being used in such a small arena, to describe utterly different situations. This isn't about burning books, it's about asking that we ALL be treated with respect, including respect for the potential pain that we might feel when reading the words of others.
> I do not appreciate having others write that I could be the cause of anyone's problems and I do not consider that my posts harm anyone here by writing civil posts here and would appreciate it if Dr. Hsiung delete the part in question.
> Lou
>
>
>I think that what was being suggested, Lou -- and certainly what I would like to suggest -- is not that you "caused" anyone else's problems, but that other people who already have problems might be triggered by words they read on these boards. I've seen a number of posts in which other posters here have tried to tell you that they have experienced pain brought on by reading your words. Most of those people take responsibilty for their reactions, rather than saying that you CAUSED them pain; and those who do say that you caused their pain generally get a PBC. That's appropriate, because we are responsible for our feelings, just as we are responsible for our actions.
At the same time, despite many times that I have seen other people ask you if you feel as though you have any responsibilty for the consequences of what you have written, I have never seen you respond to those questions. To me, it feels as though you are evading the question -- I'm not saying that you are, I actually think that you haven't noticed that the question is there. I have a hard time reading some of your posts, because my interpretation has been that you write as if you believe that what other people write can hurt you, but that what you write is neutral. Again, that is my interpretation of what I have read, NOT a reflection of your intent. I would like it if you could tell me what it is that I'm missing, so that I don't continue to misinterpret what you write; or to tell me that you really do feel as though your posts are entirely neutral? I would like to know.
Meanwhile, I am sorry that I few off the handle earlier, and I hope that you can take in my message in what I hope is a more civil form. I'll write it again, in hope that it is clear: Please consider whether others might be hurt by what you write, just as you ask that we consider whether you might be hurt by the words of others.
poster:Racer
thread:527560
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050628/msgs/527713.html