Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 16, 2005, at 10:44:39
In reply to Re: so's further observation, posted by so on June 16, 2005, at 0:13:47
> > Once again, I could accept such challenges without limit if they were about the challenger, or something the challenger has said, otherwise, I don't think there's anything untoward about limiting them.
> >
> > Also, IMO, we're starting to step into the behavior vs. intention debate. I think it is much easier to enforce rules that are based on behavior. Some think I'm uncharitable for suggesting this, but intentions are so much harder to know than behavior.> I'm sorry, my mind just blanked on this -- I almost thought I had a handle on why people want posts questioning propriety of other people's posts limited, but then I realized I had no idea why, I am just acquiescing to the fact that some people want that, because acquiescence can sometimes be courteous and help resolve conflict.
>
> If ever there came a time people were no longer free to question what I write, I should probably unplug my keyboard, run a large magnet over my hard-drive, have somebody place all of my pens out of reach and find something else to do. It is people's questions that have made me a better writer.I thought we were starting to understand each other too. Have you actually followed this debate from its genesis? I am talking about limiting (not stopping altogether) a very specific kind of behavior: the habitual, public questioning before Admin of the civility of other posters.
For example, I once used the figure of speech "with a grain of salt" in a way that Lou felt compelled to question. It was not about him or something he'd said, and he was not actively involved in the thread my post was in. But rather than ask me to clarify what I meant, he asked Admin if my use of the term was OK. If the question wasn't about me, but rather just about the term "with a grain of salt," why point to my post? Why not just ask "Is the use of the term ‘with a grain of salt’ acceptable on this forum?"
I'm only using my post as an example -- you can find dozens, if not hundreds, of similar examples. IMO, these requests are attempts to point out a bias that Lou perceives in the "system." If that is his point, that's his right. I just don't think if the posts are not about him or something he has said that he should keep making a public display of dozens, if not hundreds, of other posters.
Here is his original post questioning my post: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050219/msgs/461232.html
Here is my response (once I found out my post had been questioned):
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050219/msgs/461399.html
Here is where I first tried – in admittedly poor fashion – to do something about habitual posting: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050323/msgs/484197.html (I got blocked, after only ever receiving one PBC – actually for the “grain of salt post” 1-2 months earlier, but not for using that idiom, if I remember correctly.)
Here’s where I tried to discuss the topic again, more diplomatically, I thought, and within the guidelines of the forum: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050417/msgs/487910.html (In this thread, at one point I mentioned the “grain of salt” idiom as an example of the kind of post I was talking about, and Lou felt it necessary to discuss its meaning all over again. I got blocked again near the end of this thread, which I thought was unfair – but I’m not the first person to feel that way, so I don’t feel completely singled out.)
And finally, here is where I addressed the idiom for a final time: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050417/msgs/497858.htmlYou know, like me, IMO, you seem to have some reservations about the fairness of how this forum is run. Like maybe some people get more lenient treatment than others? But you know what’s funny? IMO, Lou is untouchable here. Others besides myself have tried to address this issue and ended up leaving, all for just wanting to at least modify (if not squelch) a behavior they find accusatory and offensive. If they don’t leave, they learn to just bite their tongues, because this is a subject that is sure to get you blocked sooner or later if you persist. I admire your sticking up for Lou. I think Lou should have the same rights as the rest of us. But I actually feel he has additional rights that we don’t have.
For instance, the 3-complaint, as proposed by Dr. Bob, would allow Lou to keep questioning others’ posts virtually without end, but would silence me in my “mission” to simply make this kind of habitual, public behavior, whoever does it, unacceptable. And Dr. Bob won’t even rule on whether or not Lou’s behavior is civil. (He said he’d rather not label it, though he seems to have labeled me as a troublemaker.)
> As to the questions about compliance in this forum -- I don't think I'm going manic, but I just realized something dramatic about the dialectic nature of this forum --- this place is called "Psychobabble". Except with the possible exception of this forum, "Psychobabble" is a term used, as far as I can tell, solely to criticize ineffectual psychological discussion. In my thinking at this moment, I don't think it will ever be possible to reach some sort of stable discourse among people discussing psychology under the banner of a word with such connotations.
>
> We can't call anything on any of these pages "psychobabble" within what I perceive to be the guidelines of the site, but everything here is psychobabble? If ever I did, I no longer get it.
>
> With such a shaky rhetorical foundation as a site name that seems to contravene expecations of the site, any effort to stabilize interpersonal relationships with new rules might be geared for failure. The site needs a more supportive name to model the kind of supportive behavior the administrator expects. Maybe some people will say it doesn't matter, or it shouldn't matter. But those people will also need to say nothing about my participation has ever bothered them, because I think the dichotomy between that term with its hypercritical implications for psychology and the expectations put forward by the administrator of this site might be a large part of why I am perplexed by the unusually high dialectic expectations on this site.You lost me here, but I admire your mental prowess.
I won't be posting here for awhile, so take care!
poster:Minnie-Haha
thread:512087
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050614/msgs/513691.html