Posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2005, at 22:27:47
In reply to I need to reword this, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 7, 2005, at 21:53:56
> > I get very frustrated when I feel I am unable to convey my meaning and because of that, what I've said is considered invalid.
i appreciate the rewording :-)
i think i do understand what you mean
when i said that stuff about what validity and invalidity meant
i should have really said that that is what validity and invalidity means in philosophy
when i use the terms valid and invalid that is what i mean by those terms
validity and invalidity have a different, more general meaning outside philosophy
outside philosophy valid is sort of synonomous with truth and invalid is sort of synonomous with false
so outside philosophy to say that something is invalid is sort of to imply that that something is rather useless indeed which is a value judgement
but that is not what i mean by valid and invalid
and that is not what i mean to imply when i say that something is valid or invalidwhen i said that stuff about the problems with translation between a natural language (ie english) and logic i was agreeing with your point that sometimes you can say that the form is invalid but it can also be the case that that form is not a very good translation of the argument.
that is to say that sometimes the translation fails to capture what the arguer intended
that is why one should employ the principle of charity when translating
'dont attribute stupid beliefs to smart people' roughly...
you are supposed to be charitable and attempt to translate into a valid form if possible.sorry...
i was agreeing with you there.
that was the point
i didn't express that so clearly...i do find it hard to talk to people outside philosophy.
it is like how there can be a theory in physics
and it describes what the world is like in terms of notions such as mass and charge and acceleration etc
and the terms 'mass' and 'charge' and 'acceleration' have technical meanings which is a little different from what those terms generally mean.
the subject matter of philosophy means that terms such as 'truth' 'falsity' 'validity' 'invalidity' 'ideas' 'thoughts' 'theories' 'reality' 'knowledge' 'justice' etc etc are technical terms with more precise meanings.
often the terms dont have the negative connotations / value judgements that they do with their more general use.so sometimes we do talk past each other a bit
that is why i try to 'translate' or 'reconstruct' what i think someone is trying to say into a language that i can understand
i try and be charitable in the translation
but sometimes i miss the point it is truethere is translation not only between languages
but within a language as well
in the words of Quine "word and object" radical translation begins at home
(ie within a language)
and there is a fundamental indetermincy with respect to what is really meant...
poster:alexandra_k
thread:500533
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050530/msgs/509439.html