Posted by jerrympls on August 3, 2004, at 22:32:31
In reply to Re: Opiates for depression, posted by J. Backer on August 3, 2004, at 13:15:19
>
> > My psychiatrists have ultimately prescribed me hydrocodone (the opiate in Vicodin) and even a trial on Fentenyl for depression when all else has failed. Takes a gutsy psychdoc to do this however and it was at a teaching clinic at a Big Ten university.
> >
> > Seroquel effects many dopamine receptors and sub receptors - but I think it has more of a blunting effect on emotions - somewhat numbing - and it's VERY sedating.
> >
> > Opiates don't get me high or euphoric, they just get me back to "normal."
> >
> > Some pdocs will tell you benzos and stimulants are the anit-christ - while others will use them for what they were made to do.
> >
> > I have researched meds and my own depression for 12 years (I'm 32 now) and have figured out that my dopamine system (very general term I know) is out of whack. Hydrocodone and other opiates are very well tied into the dopaminergic system.
> >
> > Hope this helps
> > Jerry
> >
>
>
> ...benzos and stimulants are fine, i think there is alot of people who might benifit from using them but are turned away by misinformed psychiatrists. most people on these forums are on the same page about the issue. As am I also.
>
> the way opiates effect your dopamine system are drasticly diffrent than other medications. where as amphetimines release your dopamine reserves and dump them into the synaps (please excuse speling) opiates fit into the dopamine receptors better then the dopamine inself. there for your brain stops making ints own dopamine, not to metion the effect opiates have on endorphine system.
> the point im trying to make is that if i have a 50% effective dopamine system and i need X amount of opiates to make it 100% eventually my own system will become far worse than it started and i will need more than X to reach this 100%.
>
> the addiction is completely diffrent than in benzodiazaphines, where one could just take the same amount consistantly and not always feel the need to up the anti. esspecially if they are taking them for anxiety. The nature of Deppresion it self is treated diffrently than anxiety so it could be possible that someones conseption of this sort of "treatment" has a paralell to somebody taking benzodiazaphines regularly, which is certantly not the case.
>
> a "whacked-out" dopamine system isnt something that comes in waves and niether is a misconcived notion that one needs opiates to become normal.
> that is a sign of being medically dependant and if you are a sufferer of chronic physical pain especially with a terminal illness it is quite understandable. You shouldnt be prescribed to opiates bro, there is no nice way of putting it, and i CANT/WONT side step that fact. i know you must already be fumming (unless you had just recently taken your "medicine") and i want you to know i am not trying to make you angry, i am honestly concerned. I TOO am an opiates addict, and i have thought the same thought and ALLOWED myself to use HYDROCODONE for my deppresion because i TOO have a "whacked-out" dopamine system. im going to stop messing around, you are rationalizing your use of hydrocodone. YOU ARE NOT IN PAIN, you just belive you are. That feeling of "normalness" is a very standard reaction. That almost childlike contentment that is described as "normal" is the high and if you take more of a stronger opiate you will feel even higher, thats just how opaites work. i TOO took them to be "normal" but the true state of normalness is the state a person is in before he/she ever tries opiates and to get back there once they are dependant is very difficult.
> weather or not you are a drug addict i cannot answer, but i do know the signs of being medically dependant, opiate use/abuse and denial
>
> good luck
> peace J
>I'm offended - but not "fumming" - and not because I took my "medicine." I know the difference between the two dopaminergic systems. I'm quite offended that you seem to think I'm in la la land and am an addict - when in fact I'm not. In my opinion, I think you are simply generalizing and projecting your experience with opiates onto others *perhaps* with the thought that "if *I* felt like this then *everyone* does.." BUT I could be wrong. Not trying to argue or fight.
And, by the way, the opiates I took for depression were prescribed by two research psychopharmocologists FOR my depression. So, it was legal and it helped tremendously and still does to this day.
Thanks.
Jerry
poster:jerrympls
thread:363941
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040730/msgs/373824.html