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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 58 to 82 of 169. Go back in thread:
Posted by 10derHeart on August 2, 2010, at 5:55:13
In reply to Re: blocked for 3 weeks..who felt put down? » fayeroe, posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 5:01:16
Posted by alexandra_k on August 2, 2010, at 7:43:33
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling?, posted by Dr. Bob on August 2, 2010, at 0:57:35
> Yes, if posters didn't want Ron to be blocked, they could've acted.
Some did. Some acted by attempting to tell you to stoppit. I realize that we didn't act in the way that YOU wanted, but act, we did.
> Whether or not they thought the block would've been justified.
The above course of action (trying to get you to stoppit) seems most fitting for someone who doesn't believe that your action of blocking him is justified - don't you think?
> Other posters didn't try to help him avoid a block
Please don't jump to conclusions. Can't you see how these conversations with you are posters attempting to help posters not be blocked? Can't you take some responsibility for the efficacy (or inefficacy) of that strategy?
> and I blocked him. I take responsibility for blocking him
Indeed. Then you jump to conclusions about our behavior here:
> and I see other posters as responsible for not trying to help him avoid the block.
> Maybe Babble isn't babbling because people see posters not trying to help each other avoid blocks.
And you wonder why babblers aren't babbling... Do you really not see???
PBC... INdeed.
Posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 9:47:04
In reply to Re: blocked for 3 weeks..who felt put down? » fayeroe, posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 5:01:16
Posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 9:51:19
In reply to I did as well. (nm), posted by 10derHeart on August 2, 2010, at 5:55:13
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 10:22:53
In reply to Re: blocked for 3 weeks..who felt put down? (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 1:09:38
I would prefer that posters who have a problem with Bob kept their remarks confined to Bob. I leave open the possibility that I misinterpreted and this was a remark about Bob, but I'd have needed a bit of clarification on the point. I think that part of a rephrase can be clarification on things like that.
I just see a difference between saying something about Bob and saying something about the rest of Babble.
Not that I don't have problems with all the negativity towards Bob either. I know I show plenty myself, but I try to be balanced and recognize his better qualities as well. What does it gain the board or ourselves to be really negative towards him?
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 10:33:09
In reply to Re: blocked for 3 weeks..who felt put down? (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 1:09:38
Again, I use the example...
Is this something I would say publicly in real life at a party about the party? Those in attendance? Even if I was in a dispute with the host?
Would it make any difference if it were a party I'm leaving forever - with no intent of interacting with any of the participants ever again? If it were a party I intend to return to?
I think there are some things I might say privately to like minded individuals that I might not say publicly in front of those who are enjoying the party. And there are other things I'd likely only tell my therapist and my civility buddy.
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 10:42:51
In reply to Re: blocked for 3 weeks..who felt put down? » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 10:33:09
I'm trying to phrase my responses in generalities. I generally am uncomfortable answering questions like this unless my answer is an unqualified "no".
I don't wish to show any incivility to Ron. I appreciate his attempts later in the thread to keep the conversation constructive, and those attempts definitely made me feel better about the thread.
Posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 11:02:54
In reply to Re: blocked for 3 weeks..who felt put down? » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 10:22:53
"I would prefer that posters who have a problem with Bob kept their remarks confined to Bob. I leave open the possibility that I misinterpreted and this was a remark about Bob, but I'd have needed a bit of clarification on the point. I think that part of a rephrase can be clarification on things like that".
I am assuming that you are talking to me, Dinah, even though you didn't use my name in your post.
Dinah, I was asking if anyone was offended by the words "kiddie pool". Kiddie pool was what got Ron blocked, right? And did Bob not say his usual "don't post anything......................................"?
I guess if posters don't read a post and only go by the subject line, misunderstandings can occur.
I ask you, now, how could I have possibly been referring to Bob? I didn't ask if anyone was offended by Bob, did I?
I can't speak to negativity about Bob because I don't feel I need to.
I apologize in advance if you weren't directing your post to me.
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 11:30:10
In reply to Re: blocked for 3 weeks..' kiddie pool' » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 11:02:54
I was answering your question about being offended, not responding to your post in any other way.
And as I said, I prefer not to go into this on board. I wouldn't wish to make anyone feel uncomfortable by critiquing their posts. So I answered very generally rather than specifically.
Posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 11:31:43
In reply to Re: blkd for 3 weeks..who felt put down? how? (nm) » SLS, posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 9:47:04
How?
I don't know how. I just do.
Do you really need an explanation?
I don't understand the goal of your question. Do you wish for me to point out and detail what I consider to be the incivilities of others?
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 11:49:06
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 1:33:05
> Dinah, I feel that bob may be getting the result he wants.
I don't think he is.
I have to partially retract my statement about utopian boards. I read a website that is *very* loosely moderated, and most of the forums there are not ones I'd want to post on. But one of the boards there is as civil as Dr. Bob could ever wish. If anyone starts being unpleasant, the other members calmly convey the message that that isn't appropriate there, and then don't belabor the point but continue on with the discussion. For some reason it seems to work there.
I suspect that Dr. Bob would like us to do that here. For posters to take responsibility for civility.
I'm positive that if an authority figure there were to ask the other posters to urge the "uncivil" poster to apologize, the result would be worse rather than better.
And it's also one of the very few places where I've ever seen it work that well. It must be related to the self selection of participants. Forums that relate to the very mildest and most innocuous hobbies manage to turn very ugly. And the less strictly moderated forums either become madhouses or in smaller groups blow up in recriminations with splinter groups being formed. I guess that might happen with the stricter boards as well, but it must play out off board.
If his goal is to have posters take more responsibility for site civility, I'm not sure it is achievable. But I do think that this isn't the way to attempt it, and I wish he'd abandon one that hasn't produced the results he'd want. Since I really don't think this is what he wants. Why would he?
If his goal is more limited, to having posters recognize that they are not powerless in the face of the blocks they later protest, I also think this isn't the best choice of words. I think if that is his goal, he ought to just say "People protest blocks, but I don't see many people trying to prevent them. In fact, sometimes I see people encouraging the behaviors that lead to blocks and then complaining that the blocks are unfair. I'd like anyone who objects to blocks to do what they can to prevent them in ways other than protesting the blocks. There are other methods than protests, and they may be more effective. Protesting hasn't proved all that effective." If, of course, that is what it is he wishes to convey. I don't want to put words in his mouth.
Ok, sometimes I do want to put words in his mouth. :)
And definitely sometimes I'd like to take words *out* of his mouth.
The wording as it is is not only to vague to convey his point (whatever it might be), but tends to be "heard" as saying something completely different altogether. Even by me.
Posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 11:56:58
In reply to Re: blocked for 3 weeks..' kiddie pool' » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 11:30:10
> I was answering your question about being offended, not responding to your post in any other way.
>
> And as I said, I prefer not to go into this on board. I wouldn't wish to make anyone feel uncomfortable by critiquing their posts. So I answered very generally rather than specifically.That 's cool, Dinah. No excuses but I have one of "MY" headaches and I'm not running on brain power this morning. P
Posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 11:59:36
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 11:49:06
"Ok, sometimes I do want to put words in his mouth. :)
And definitely sometimes I'd like to take words *out* of his mouth."
My first good laugh since I got up with the headache. Thanks, P
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 12:01:57
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 11:59:36
I know this is probably a silly thing to say, but...
I HATE headaches.
Posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 12:49:17
In reply to :) I hope you feel better soon » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 12:01:57
Posted by manic666 on August 2, 2010, at 12:49:18
In reply to :) I hope you feel better soon » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 12:01:57
ok bob sometimes pulls my posts as they hit the page which is cool. i dont get a ban an gives me time to think right or wrong.You all seen my 6 week ban , to this day i dont no why i got it never mind 6 weeks. i recieved e mails from babbler,s saying sorry for the ban.But only a couple spoke on babble. That speak,s to me as you wanted me banned, or you didnt give a sh*t. I think thats what bob means about helping each other. The Block didnt hit me hard but the lack of support did. Bob you are a psychiatrist you are not a patient, you dont feel as we feel in crisis or depression.So you would not post as we do sometimes, ie through a fog, in crisis, over pumped,downright angry. Now as a psychiatrist dont you think to block someone who may not be talking an posting with a clear head is dangerouse to there health,All kinds of damage may follow. the blocked person may become more unwell ,his or her family may suffer, all sorts o f thing could go wrong as i said with bulldog .It festered in his head for three weeks ,he came back at boiling point a walked straight into a 9 week ban, an all he did was tell the truth, right or wrong
Posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 14:01:16
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 11:49:06
> If anyone starts being unpleasant, the other members calmly convey the message that that isn't appropriate there,
Would not such an act here be looked upon as being accusatory?
- Scott
Posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 14:07:15
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » Dinah, posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 14:01:16
> > If anyone starts being unpleasant, the other members calmly convey the message that that isn't appropriate there,
>
> Would not such an act here be looked upon as being accusatory?
>
>
> - ScottGood question, Scott. I'm trying to phrase it in a manner that would not offend/hurt the poster. So far I'm at zero.
Dinah, can you help on this one?
Posted by violette on August 2, 2010, at 14:28:23
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » SLS, posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 14:07:15
The things is, we are not all Dinah's. Bob uses her as an example repeatedly. I agree Dinah has a very astute way with words, and is a very isightful, thoughtful, and supportive person. But not everyone has her experiences nor has everyone been in psychotherapy for years.
Maybe Ron was hurting inside? Maybe he grew up in an environment where people said one thing and meant or did another? Which leads to the walking on eggshells effect..And perhaps he was reaching out-I don't see he came here to slam anyone. And perhaps if given the chance-this is something he could have worked on through talking with others here. Now that he is blocked again, it may reinforce his experience and cause more harm. I agree with you, Manic.
Ron is Ron. Partly Cloudy is Partly Cloudy. Manic is Manic. We are all individuals with our own unique strength and potentials. And we should all strive to be our best through our positive qualities rather than striving to 'be' Dinahs.
(No offense meant Dinah...Bob just continually refers to you as an example of some sort of model he wishes to see (see numerous references in this thread)-and I do not think that is fair to everyone else.)
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 14:37:00
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » Dinah, posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 14:01:16
There's certainly a risk of it being deemed uncivil. In fact, when Dr. Bob was in the stage of trying to let people work things out, that's what often happened. And certainly some things that were said there wouldn't be allowed here. But the style was so low key that it didn't come across as particularly uncivil. Nor did it feed the trolls, as they say. More like "Hey, chill out why don't you. We're here to have fun." followed by a return to the topic than "You are being rude." followed by a long discussion.
Again, it may be a function of the self selected group of people who post there regularly and not really transferable. Maybe the topic attracted those of mainly mild manner. The other boards on the same large site have such nastiness that I have no desire to post there. So it certainly wasn't the moderation. However, it did seem to be a group norm that was enforced groupwide on that particular board.
When I have time, I could try to look for a few examples. I was very impressed. But then, I've been very impressed at times with Babblers as well.
Perhaps if Dr. Bob wishes posters to do that, he might provide some examples?
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 14:41:29
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling?, posted by violette on August 2, 2010, at 14:28:23
Thank you, and I do understand. I appreciate your not resenting me for something that might be not unlike the ratings I object to.
I don't think Dr. Bob uniformly approves of me though. He likes some of what I *say*, but since I was a deputy for years, it's not unlikely that we have similar views on some things. Other things, not so much. He doesn't quote me on *those* things. :)
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 14:45:40
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling?, posted by violette on August 2, 2010, at 14:28:23
> And perhaps if given the chance-this is something he could have worked on through talking with others here.
By the way, I think Dr. Bob will agree with you on this one. That's what I think he would have liked to have seen happen in response to his request. Although I think it's a lot more difficult to do after one of Dr. Bob's requests because of how they're worded.
Posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 14:53:06
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » violette, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 14:45:40
> > And perhaps if given the chance-this is something he could have worked on through talking with others here.
>
> By the way, I think Dr. Bob will agree with you on this one. That's what I think he would have liked to have seen happen in response to his request. Although I think it's a lot more difficult to do after one of Dr. Bob's requests because of how they're worded.I find it extremely difficult to do something that someone tells/asks me to do when the "request/guilt/manipulation is upsetting my stomach.
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 14:53:58
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling?, posted by violette on August 2, 2010, at 14:28:23
> Ron is Ron. Partly Cloudy is Partly Cloudy. Manic is Manic. We are all individuals with our own unique strength and potentials. And we should all strive to be our best through our positive qualities rather than striving to 'be' Dinahs.
I agree with this too. But if everyone is to be respected, doesn't that mean the Scotts, 10ders, Dinahs, and others who like staying at Babble as well?
There is a tension there. Sort of like how I really value tolerance, but sometimes find myself jumping up and down and shouting "I hate people who are intolerant. I cannot tolerate intolerance!!!" Which always makes me laugh and feel a wee bit more tolerant.
In different places there are different behavioral expectations. While it's nice to value people for who they are, the behavioral expectations still have to be met. And at Babble the behavioral expectations have a lot to do with respecting and valuing others. So definitely there is a tension there.
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 14:55:21
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » violette, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 14:53:58
I really think this thread belongs on Admin.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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