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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 52 to 76 of 85. Go back in thread:
Posted by 5 on March 4, 2006, at 4:06:52
In reply to Re: Transference » 5, posted by AuntieMel on March 3, 2006, at 10:37:55
> Is it possible that you were hurt because you have some transference issues, too?
of course. i didn't really care when doc john blocked me for 4 weeks. so of course that comes into it.
> Maybe in a way we all do.
well... i would have thought so yes. actually... i am having trouble getting my head around the idea that some people seem to think they don't have any transference stuff going on for dr bob at all. that one boggles me. really. but... it is uncivil to say someone is having a transference response... so there it is.
Posted by JenStar on March 4, 2006, at 10:39:56
In reply to Re: Transference » AuntieMel, posted by 5 on March 4, 2006, at 4:06:52
hi Mel,
I think it's hard to see it when you're IN it, though? I mean, if *I* have transference, it might be near impossible for me to get that I do.
I mean, I'm sure you're right -- given that transference is not reserved only for therapists, but can be applied to ANYONE we meet, anywhere -- I'm sure I do have transference feelings of some kind for Dr. Bob. I don't know him, so of course I'm going to make assumptions about what kind of person he is based on the little information I have.I extrapolate AND interpolate using tidbits and stuff he posts, and just the general knowledge about this site.
But I don't have a "crush" on him, nor do I think about him when I'm not posting, nor do I really wonder too much about him. I probably wonder LESS about him than I do about some of the posters here, because to me the posters are more REAL. I know more about them, so I end up caring more about them, and hoping that they're doing OK.
What do you think? Do you think that YOU have transference for Dr. Bob of any kind?
JenStar
Posted by verne on March 4, 2006, at 11:29:43
In reply to Re: Transference » AuntieMel, posted by 5 on March 4, 2006, at 4:06:52
5, (are you related to 7of5?)
I just took a closer look at the thread about nukes on the politics board and the discussion about ethics, transference, and blocks on this board.
I've said before that I don't think blocks should be for very long, and certainly not doubled or tripled. That's like an indefinite form of probation. (I'll get to the point later - like a sentence in German, you have to wait until the verb at the end to find out what I'm talking about)
I agree about the transference. Without Dr Bob's pic and active hands-on involvement, it wouldn't be much of an issue. It's hard to form an attachment with just the "webmaster".
When I first discovered Babble in 2000-2001, I thought it was the best site on the net to compare notes about medication - what's not said by the doctor or the pharmacist. What's really going on. I knew it wasn't my imagination when, for example, I gained 10 pounds overnight on Serzone. Babble spared me a lot of grief in my many drug trials and search for a "cure".
When I rediscovered Babble in 2004 I first noticed the politics, faith, administration, social, and other boards. Now Babble, for me, became a mixed blessing. Involvement on the other boards seemed to increase my level of anxiety and lead to more than the usual drinking.
It took me awhile to understand why the other boards even existed until one of the babble old-timers explained that these topics were causing others distress on the main board.
In other words, it was an attempt to quarantine and safely contain volatile "trigger" topics. This was the ultimate way to flag potential troublesome threads. (my problem is I open them anyway) Afterall, the main goal of the site is to be "supportive".
Which brings me to your recent trouble on the politics board - the post about "people with nukes". The babble-correct way to express it would go something like this: "The US has nukes yet doesn't want certain other countries to have nukes." or "wants nukes for some countries and not for others", leaving motives and judgment out of it.
But, perhaps, your style of posting - relentlessly exploring ideas and challenging another person's views, your kind of sharp, logically driven, brainstorming, debating, style doesn't always fit into the Borg - I mean Babble - model. How do you conform your thoughts to the Babble without losing yourself in the process?
What if you're more interested in content than style points? You want to get there without the acrobatics. And is there a way to discuss ideas in babble-perfect without sacrificing one's identity and joining the circus?
You may have arrived at your own answer. I noticed, lately, that when you venture too close to the edge, you stop and say, "...so there it is". As Tobey McGuire's character says in the movie, "Ride With the Devil": "I'm not saying it's good, I'm not saying it's bad, it just IS".
Verne
Posted by Tamar on March 4, 2006, at 21:54:21
In reply to Re: I'm sorry Dr. Bob, posted by Deneb on March 4, 2006, at 0:20:56
Deneb,
I’m sure it’s OK to love Dr Bob. I’m certain it doesn’t make him feel uncomfortable or unhappy.
I reckon the important thing is to think about why you love Dr Bob so much. A few days ago you agreed with the idea that he is safe (if I remember correctly). Maybe safety is especially important to you.
Your love thing is not at all insane. On the contrary, it is very sensible. I think it’s a good thing for you to be able to feel love. And there are lots of different kinds of love, or facets to love. There are lots of questions you could ask yourself. For example:
1. Do you want Dr Bob as a lover or as a father figure, or perhaps both (or neither)?
2. If you could do just about anything, how would you express your love for Dr Bob?
3. Do you feel that loving Dr Bob is a substitute for loving people in real life?
4. If you could substitute Dr Bob for one person in your real life, who would it be? Would you prefer to have Dr Bob instead of your father? Your uncle? A professor? A brother or cousin? What do you want most from him?
5. If Dr Bob had flaws, what could you live with? What couldn’t you live with?Of course, my questions could be completely pointless. They’re based in my experience rather than in theory.
Nevertheless, I believe you’re completely normal. Don’t fret about your feelings. You’re in good company…
Tamar
Posted by Deneb on March 4, 2006, at 23:04:35
In reply to Re: I'm sorry Dr. Bob, posted by Tamar on March 4, 2006, at 21:54:21
> Deneb,
>
> I’m sure it’s OK to love Dr Bob. I’m certain it doesn’t make him feel uncomfortable or unhappy.Really? That makes me happy then. :-)
>There are lots of questions you could ask yourself. For example:
> 1. Do you want Dr Bob as a lover or as a father figure, or perhaps both (or neither)?LOL, not as a lover! Most parsimonious explanation....father figure. LOL
> 2. If you could do just about anything, how would you express your love for Dr Bob?
I want to give Dr. Bob a hug. :-)
> 3. Do you feel that loving Dr Bob is a substitute for loving people in real life?
Not at all. I have limitless love. :-)
> 4. If you could substitute Dr Bob for one person in your real life, who would it be? Would you prefer to have Dr Bob instead of your father? Your uncle? A professor? A brother or cousin? What do you want most from him?
I think it would be super cool to have Dr. Bob as my professor, but I somehow think my loving him makes him more like a father.
What do I want most from him? I want him to tell me that he doesn't not like me, and doesn't want me hurt. He has actually told me those things. ;-) He's already given me all I want and need. Maybe that's why I love him so much.
> 5. If Dr Bob had flaws, what could you live with? What couldn’t you live with?
I could tolerate Dr. Bob not answering all my questions and forgetting about things. I wouldn't be able to tolerate him being greedy and selfish.
> Of course, my questions could be completely pointless. They’re based in my experience rather than in theory.
I think they were very good questions. :-)
>
> Nevertheless, I believe you’re completely normal. Don’t fret about your feelings. You’re in good company…
>
> Tamar
>Thanks Tamar :-) *gives Tamar big hug*
Deneb
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2006, at 14:17:05
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:24:03
> My point is that according to the ethics boards...
> His conduct is nothing to do with them.
> So the fact is that he can do whatever the f*ck he likes...
>
> He is god here.
> And he asks us to trust him...It's a lot to ask, I know. For some people, it may be too much to ask.
But I've also been thinking lately that some posters may feel it's unfair. I hold them to rules, but "can do whatever the f*ck I like" myself.
> IMO he is crazy anyways
Um, please be sensitive to the feelings of others.
But please also don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by muffled on March 6, 2006, at 14:39:48
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2006, at 14:17:05
> It's a lot to ask, I know. For some people, it may be too much to ask.
***I do in fact find this challenging
> But I've also been thinking lately that some posters may feel it's unfair. I hold them to rules, but "can do whatever the f*ck I like" myself.
***Oooh, talking my lingo, Bob repeated f*ck. Well, well. Its the old authority figure thing I struggle with I think. And the imbalance of perceived power.
> Um, please be sensitive to the feelings of others.
> But please also don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
> Thanks,
> Bob***Dunno if you'll answer this, but when I first came on the boards you said only real short one liners, and were pretty much completely impersonal. Now you say alot more comparatively speaking, and are actually interacting with bablers on here. I just wondered why such a radical change? Is it to do with your studies? Personal? for better functioning of this site,? all of the above?
Just FYI, I don't like or love you, I dunno who the hell you are. Just suspicious I guess. Should you reply. Thanks.
Muffled
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 6, 2006, at 14:52:55
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2006, at 14:17:05
> But I've also been thinking lately that some posters may feel it's unfair. I hold them to rules, but "can do whatever the f*ck I like" myself.
> Thanks,
>
> BobWhoa! I just about jolted out of my chair.
But you're right.
Lar
Posted by Toph on March 6, 2006, at 15:59:16
In reply to Babble » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on March 6, 2006, at 14:39:48
>
> ***Dunno if you'll answer this, but when I first came on the boards you said only real short one liners, and were pretty much completely impersonal. Now you say alot more comparatively speaking, and are actually interacting with bablers on here. I just wondered why such a radical change? Is it to do with your studies? Personal? for better functioning of this site,? all of the above?
...
> Muffled
>It's been my observation that Bob has always engaged in a somewhat conversational style on Admin, Muffled. If he were to start hanging out on Social, now that would indicate something's up!
Posted by 838 on March 6, 2006, at 17:16:15
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2006, at 14:17:05
> > He is god here.
> > And he asks us to trust him...
> It's a lot to ask, I know. For some people, it may be too much to ask.It can be a bit challenging... Especially when you consider we have no board of appeal or anything... Your verdict is final...
> But I've also been thinking lately that some posters may feel it's unfair. I hold them to rules, but "can do whatever the f*ck I like" myself.
Er yeah. There is something to that methinks.
> > IMO he is crazy anyways
> Um, please be sensitive to the feelings of others.Sorry. Didn't mean to offend anybody. I meant that kind of affectionately. Kind of... I'm crazy I know that lol. But yeah okay sorry bout that.
> But please also don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.Though when you pass civility judgement then you decide that something was accusatory or hurtful or whatever. Thinking back to my block... I feel very offended that you interpreted my words in that way... To the best of my knowledge nobody else did. Or if they did... Surely a more mature way to handle things would have been for someone to say they felt hurt and give me the change to put things right... Two weeks. I think another block really would destroy me... And I don't say that to try and blackmail you into not blocking me. Really. It is just that I can't bear it. I can't. And I know other peoples have said similar before... And I'm coming around to their way of thinking I am. Too long. Blocks are too long. Especially for peoples who typically post (a lot) every single day. And hurt... That you interpreted my post that way too. Whatever happened to charity?
Posted by muffled on March 6, 2006, at 19:09:34
In reply to Re: Ethics » Dr. Bob, posted by 838 on March 6, 2006, at 17:16:15
Though when you pass civility judgement then you decide that something was accusatory or hurtful or whatever. Thinking back to my block... I feel very offended that you interpreted my words in that way... To the best of my knowledge nobody else did. Or if they did... Surely a more mature way to handle things would have been for someone to say they felt hurt and give me the change to put things right... Two weeks. I think another block really would destroy me... And I don't say that to try and blackmail you into not blocking me. Really. It is just that I can't bear it. I can't. And I know other peoples have said similar before... And I'm coming around to their way of thinking I am. Too long. Blocks are too long. Especially for peoples who typically post (a lot) every single day. And hurt... That you interpreted my post that way too. Whatever happened to charity?
***Thats it exactly, Dr.Bob, it REALLY hurts people. I dunno if you get just HOW MUCH. The 'punishment so way outweighs the crime. HUGELY.
Posted by JenStar on March 6, 2006, at 23:48:34
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob!!! » Dr. Bob, posted by Larry Hoover on March 6, 2006, at 14:52:55
I almost fell out of my chair, too!!! At first I thought someone had hijacked the post and put words in Dr. Bob's mouth, like a fake post. I reread it and decided it was 'real.' Yikes. I curse from the mouth (fingers?) of Dr. Bob! The world is turned on its end!
JenStar
Posted by AuntieMel on March 7, 2006, at 11:09:33
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob!!! » Dr. Bob, posted by Larry Hoover on March 6, 2006, at 14:52:55
Ok, I don't have anything to say. I just wanted it repeated.....
> > But I've also been thinking lately that some posters may feel it's unfair. I hold them to rules, but "can do whatever the f*ck I like" myself.
>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
>
> Whoa! I just about jolted out of my chair.
>
> But you're right.
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by AuntieMel on March 7, 2006, at 11:10:57
In reply to Re: Ethics » Dr. Bob, posted by 838 on March 6, 2006, at 17:16:15
Could you send me your email so if you *do* ever get blocked again I can talk to you??
You can find (one of) mine in the FAQ
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2006, at 23:55:57
In reply to Re: Ethics » Dr. Bob, posted by 838 on March 6, 2006, at 17:16:15
> > But please also don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
>
> Though when you pass civility judgement then you decide that something was accusatory or hurtful or whatever. Thinking back to my block... I feel very offended that you interpreted my words in that way... To the best of my knowledge nobody else did. Or if they did... Surely a more mature way to handle things would have been for someone to say they felt hurt and give me the change to put things right...It's not always easy to handle hurt in a mature way. Some people just leave. I'd prefer for them not to feel hurt in the first place.
It's necessary to have some rules. Having rules means making judgments. Making judgments means deciding that some posts are against the rules. Deciding that posts are against the rules hurts those posters. Ergo, unfortunately, it's necessary to hurt some posters.
Bob
Posted by 838 on March 8, 2006, at 4:07:54
In reply to Re: civility, posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2006, at 23:55:57
> It's not always easy to handle hurt in a mature way. Some people just leave. I'd prefer for them not to feel hurt in the first place.
:-( You think people would leave over what I said?
> It's necessary to have some rules.I've never questioned that...
>Having rules means making judgments. Making judgments means deciding that some posts are against the rules. Deciding that posts are against the rules hurts those posters. Ergo, unfortunately, it's necessary to hurt some posters.
Yeah but... Typically I don't have a problem with the warnings / blockings. This time I did. I don't know whether I would be having such a problem if that blocking happened to another poster or not. I don't know. I feel too personally involved so I can't say...
I am still having trouble with my post being interpreted in that way :-(
But I never meant to say that PBC's / blockings were a bad thing in general...
Though... For regular posters who are typically supportive - and who try and be civil... I don't think the block lengths should stack up the way they do at present.
Because it is kind of like... The longer you are here... The longer the blocks get. I used to think that it was a matter of people either learning from their errors or deserving longer blocks. But I'm having trouble here. Maybe I'm just stupid... I dunno... I never meant to hurt. And... Did I hurt? I don't think so...
Posted by 838 on March 8, 2006, at 4:21:47
In reply to Re: civility » Dr. Bob, posted by 838 on March 8, 2006, at 4:07:54
all i know is... i'm too damned terrified to venture back to the politics board.
:-(
:-(
:-(i mean... it is too easy to come up with 'nicer phrasings' in hindsight. it is much harder to see what is likely to be considered problematic at the time. and even more than that... i don't just want to avoid the liklihood of a block... i want to avoid a block.
and so i guess that means... either passing my posts through... who? you? i'm not sure that the other moderators are confident on the politics board rulings. or... just shutting up.
so...
i dunno.
interesting way of getting people to stop talking about politics i guess. don't ban the topic... just ban people who talk seriously about the topic...
and it's not really a matter of my getting angry over on politics either... i mean... i don't really feel angry... i feel... ignorant much of the time.
i feel like that with cricket too.
i mean... why is it that people 'typically' get out after however many balls... i don't understand. i have trouble with some things...
Posted by AuntieMel on March 8, 2006, at 9:39:55
In reply to Re: civility raquo; Dr. Bob, posted by 838 on March 8, 2006, at 4:21:47
I find that if I'm having a hard time wording something in a civil way, or if I'm in doubt, wording things as questions helps soften them.
Posted by Dinah on March 8, 2006, at 11:37:32
In reply to Re: civility raquo; Dr. Bob, posted by 838 on March 8, 2006, at 4:21:47
If you want, I'll volunteer as your civility buddy.
Then if Dr. Bob has a problem with what you wrote, and I've looked over, he'll fuss at me.
I warn you though, I try to err on the side of caution. You might prefer to get someone who is a bit more bold.
By the way, the problem you described is the reason for the new concept of cooling off blocks, which I think might now be official?
But you'd have to be block free for a while.
Posted by muffled on March 8, 2006, at 14:21:57
In reply to Re: civility, posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2006, at 23:55:57
> It's not always easy to handle hurt in a mature way. Some people just leave. I'd prefer for them not to feel hurt in the first place.
***but its GUARANTEED to hurt if your blocked.
And lets be real here, duhhhh, ya, people hurt each other, its a fact of life, they may not mean to do it, but with blocks there's no chance of apology, to talk it out, etc. Sorta like getting hit upside the head with a 2x4 and getting no chance to reply.
I admire that you want babble to be safe, but it needs to be real too........
IRL its illegal to bash someone for a slight miscomment......Hell, it just ain't civil....
>
> It's necessary to have some rules. Having rules means making judgments. Making judgments means deciding that some posts are against the rules. Deciding that posts are against the rules hurts those posters. Ergo, unfortunately, it's necessary to hurt some posters.***so it all basically comes down to a judgement call from The Man. I guess I have a problem with the fact that there is no avenue of appeal if perhaps you had a human moment and maybe made a mistake?
See the post MIGHT have hurt someone, maybe, but the block DID hurt someone, FOR SURE.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Sure wouldn't want your job......
Muffled
Posted by Deneb on March 8, 2006, at 15:56:52
In reply to Re: civility » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on March 8, 2006, at 14:21:57
I'm so conflicted right now. I love Dr. Bob, but I was hurt by him blocking me four times.
The only way I can reconcile this is to assume that Dr. Bob didn't have a choice in blocking me.
I don't handle blocks well at all. I'm not used to punishment. I yell and scream at Dr. Bob when I'm blocked. I beg and scream and beg and scream some more. I stop and then I start again.
It makes me sad to remember being blocked. I think I have PTSD from being blocked.
I don't know how to handle hurt in a mature way. I'm stuck here now. I still don't know whether this place is good or bad for me.
Maybe there should be better warnings about how Babble can make you worse.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on March 8, 2006, at 19:01:39
In reply to Re: civility, posted by Deneb on March 8, 2006, at 15:56:52
Sorry about the whining. I'm pretty sure I don't have PTSD from being blocked. I think the whining is a continuation of my tantrum.
Deneb*
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2006, at 23:02:19
In reply to Re: civility » Dr. Bob, posted by 838 on March 8, 2006, at 4:07:54
> > It's not always easy to handle hurt in a mature way. Some people just leave. I'd prefer for them not to feel hurt in the first place.
>
> :-( You think people would leave over what I said?I don't know. Maybe they'd just stay away from Politics for a while? Still, neither of us want that, either, do we?
Bob
Posted by 838 on March 9, 2006, at 2:37:23
In reply to Re: civility, posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2006, at 23:02:19
> > :-( You think people would leave over what I said?
> I don't know. Maybe they'd just stay away from Politics for a while?I guess they might...
Whereas I know for a fact that I WILL.In fact... I had to stay away from ALL boards for a while...
Posted by gardenergirl on March 9, 2006, at 10:21:26
In reply to Re: civility, posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2006, at 23:55:57
> I'd prefer for them not to feel hurt in the first place.
>Ouch! That sounds to me like feeling hurt is somehow "bad" or "wrong".
gg
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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