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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 85. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 21:20:53
In reply to Re: Ethics » JenStar, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 21:05:05
> Doesn't that make you feel just a little suspicious?
No. I've always been more incredulous that he tolerates what he has to tolerate to run this board. I would have shut it down years ago if I were Dr. Bob.
And I'm not particularly unsuspicious by nature.
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 21:22:36
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 21:20:53
The best of both worlds? In what on earth way?
If I were him, I'd be feeling pretty hurt right about now.
Posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 21:51:25
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 21:22:36
PBC 5...
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 21:55:14
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 21:51:25
Did I say that?
I didn't.
I'd just be extra hurt if I were Dr. Bob, because it's you.
Of course, I'm not Dr. Bob. I imagine to run this place he has to have waaaay thicker skin than I've got.
Posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:03:06
In reply to Re: Ethics » 5, posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 21:55:14
> I'd just be extra hurt if I were Dr. Bob, because it's you.well...
my block...
i was extra hurt because it was him
and i trusted him
i trusted that his blocks make sense
but that one didn't.
sure there might be 'a' reason...
but what other people said...
what cricket said...
i wasn't criticising a poster
i was critiquing an ideali thought he (of all people) would get that
would get how important that was to mebut he is busy...
oh well.
that is fine...
but it doesn't buy me back two weeks...
longer than that...
it doesn't buy me back the time in my room
my existence being a bother
my being silenced
for the good of the group
i don't understand
i don't see the sense
i've thought about it a lot
i bet i've thought about it much much more than he didhow much thought did he put into the block?
couple seconds?
couple minutes?
how much thought have i put into it since?
i repeat...
if he isn't bound by the ethics guidelines that apply to doctors in his interactions with us...
then he isn't posting as a doctor.
i wonder whether less people would visit / post
if he got rid of the 'dr'
he does get the best of both worlds...
devotion
with no responsibility
is it any wonder other doctors are dubious about teh online forum???
really?
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 22:11:26
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:03:06
Devotion? Without responsibility?
I see neither.
How often does he get abuse as opposed to devotion? Without responsibility? I can say for absolutely certain as a deputy, that Dr. Bob has plenty of responsibility. He makes the tough calls. He's the one up in the middle of the night reading every post. He's the one who does indeed think about difficult blocks.
I can't say how long he thought about your block. But I doubt he did it lightly or without caring. You and I have discussed some of this in email. About perceived fairness and how difficult Dr. Bob's job is.
I really wish you had emailed me.
And I'm sorry I didn't think to email you.
Posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 22:12:51
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:03:06
Hi 5
I was hurt by my blocks too.
(((((((((((((5)))))))))))))))
Every time I get blocked it's a big shock. I feel like time stops when I see "blocked" with my name. I'm dumbfounded. I think maybe it's PTSD over being blocked.
I totally lose it. I really lose it. I go insane. If I describe what I think and do then I would have to put a "trigger" on this post. Yes, it's that bad.
I'm just going to have to make sure I never get blocked again, because I can't handle being blocked.
Deneb
Posted by gardenergirl on March 2, 2006, at 22:14:04
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:03:06
Transference isn't just for breakfast.
It doesn't happen only in therapy. Trust me, I've projected and transferred all kinds of my baggage onto various male authority figures in my time. Most of them were not bound by any ethical code to handle my transference in a therapeutic or even careful way.
Anyone is fair game for transference. It's only therapy-related when it is a subject of therapy. In real life, we have only our own selves and perhaps the advice of trusted, and keenly observant friends to help us see it and work through it.
Just to clarify...
gg
Posted by JenStar on March 2, 2006, at 22:18:01
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:03:06
I'm sorry you're hurting over your block.
But I don't think that he enjoys 'devotion without responsibility.' On the other hand, I think running a board like this is a HUGE responsibility. On the nuts/bolts side, he has to make sure the pages are working, that links work, that updates happen. He has to answer countless emails, some of which (I'm lead to believe) are less than civil many times. he has to do this with patience and with a certain detachment which may be hard to keep going at times.
He also has to respond to posts, make decisions on blocks, and determine when and if it's necessary to intervene "IRL" for suicidal posters. He has to deal with the ire and wrath of angry people. He has to maintain a distance, even if he might be interested in getting to know some people more personally. He has to keep the place civil in the face of relentless surges of emotion.
To me, that's a lot of responsibility, and the fact that he does it means that he 'cares' about the boards and the group here as a whole.
Anyone in the world can decide to break protocol and have a sexual relationship with someone inappropriate. Sure, Dr. Bob "could" do that if he wanted to. But he "could" do that with clients/patients IRL too, or with someone he met on the subway, or someone in a coffee shop.
He makes no claims that he's 'doctoring' us here, but he IS a doctor in real life. And this site was set up in part as a way to understand internet relationships. So I think it's rational and sensible to introduce himself as "Dr. Bob." I think it's pretty clear that even though he had a medical degree, that we are not in any way to rely on him for health administration.
If he didn't disclose that he was a doctor, I'm sure people would find THAT to be suspicious and a conspiracy, too! :)
So that is the 'responsibility' part. On the 'devotion' side, I am not sure how many people here are DEVOTED to him. I mean, I'm sticking up for him, but I'm not in any way devoted. I don't feel that I 'love' him, or that I 'care for' him. I like this site and I respect him for creating it, and overall I think he runs it well. But I don't think that's devotion. I know Deneb says she 'loves' him, but that's not quite devotion either.
I think it's natural for a person to think about stuff that affects them, like blocks. I would be somewhat worried if Dr. Bob spent hours debating internally over whether to do a block on someone. He probably only DOES spend a few minutes of time on it. Of course, we spend a few minutes of time writing the things that get us blocked - maybe it's a fair trade?I don't know. Again, I'm sorry you're hurting over things. I don't like seeing you feeling hurt. But I do think that we see things in fundamentally different ways here on the boards.
I hope you continue to stay here and keep posting, and I hope you regain your happy side. :)
jenStar
Posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 22:21:15
In reply to Re: Ethics » 5, posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 22:12:51
Just thinking about being blocked is making me cry now.
I can never be blocked again. I'm not sure I would survive, I'm serious, not kidding, not making light of the situation.
My next block would be 8 weeks and I seriously don't think I will survive it.
GG, you have my permission to call the cops on me if I get blocked again and go insane.
I don't want to die.
I'm sad now.
I can't stop posting here, so I have to risk my life.
Deneb
Posted by JenStar on March 2, 2006, at 22:22:25
In reply to Re: Ethics » 5, posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 22:12:51
Or...maybe you could try to use each block as a way to 'desensitize' yourself to the thing? Or a reminder about staying within the boudaries of the site?
I know it's REALLY tempting to just write about whatever you're feeling, whenever you feel it. I feel that way too, a lot of the time. But the site does have boundary conditions that we need to stay inside of.
The time I got blocked I was upset. I was upset at the block. I was MORE upset at myself for allowing myself to get "out of control" and respond emotionally without editing the post. I knew that what I was posting would probably not be acceptable, yet I posted it -- and later on, I felt mad at myself for my lack of control.
I don't want to presume that you feel the same things I feel. But does some of your anger at the block stem from the same thing I was feeling? Or is it still too raw to process that way?
take care,
JenStar
Posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:24:03
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:03:06
Because I've always tried to be charitable to him
Like he has asked us to do
And I don't see him being charitable to meAnd every now and then people say I don't get treated as harshly as other people on the boards
They say I get preferential treatmentAnd those sort of accusations are hard for me (and yes I see them as accusations)
Because I've had preferential treatment before
And it was abuse
It was
And it is hard for meBut I've thought hard about it
Whether I do get preferential treatment
whether I have gotten preferential treatment
And my thought was that Dr Bob was more inclined to think of my posts charitably because I extend that courtesy to him
I have tried to internalise the civility rules
To take them on board
To make sense of them
To employ them in my life
Not just at the level of posting but at teh level of thought and conceptualisationAnd that is why he might be more inclined to think of what I say with a little charity
That made sense to me.
Around Larry's block
(I'm sorry if this is bringing up hurts for people)
I predicted admin action.
And people did point out how that could sound...
And nothing was said...
And so the admin action happened.
And I tried to make sense of the block
To think of it charitably
To help other people see that
To help other people understand whyI never did agree with the 6 weeks...
I've had issue with the LENGTH of blocks
But not really with the blocks.And so I did that...
I wasn't asked to.
But I did.And then the block gets reduced 'with love'
Whatever that means
Whatever that means for the original reasons for the block
I don't really know what sense to make of that...
But there it is.
And I am glad Larry is back with us
And I am glad he didn't end up with 6 weeks because I think that was too much.
Far too much.
I'm glad it was reduced but I'm not sure I see the sense...
Why was Larry's block reduced while other peoples blocks have not been.Why charity for Larry?
I don't understand.
Maybe... It is about teh majority. I mean... If the boards are about the good of the group then what the majority wants...
People went from hating to loving Dr Bob.
Once the block was reduced.
I continued to be an object of derision.
Thats okay. he didn't ask me to come to his defence.
But I continued to be an object of derision.Outliers...
Just aren't in the interests of the group.
But when it comes to what Iran wants (what the citizens in Iran wants)
Well...
That is nothing when compared to the interests of the US.
I'm an outlier.
Always have been.
Always will be.
Some people find that invaluable...
But I piss off the majority that is true.
But that is me.
I thought that was okay.
I thought I was okay here.
But I am not.
because those last two blocks...
Who am I kidding...
All my blocks.I know she didn't see it this way...
But my apology to crazy t was genuine
I was really very upset with myself over that
I did wrong :-(
I hurt her very much and that wasn't my intention.
But I don't even have teh opportunity to put that right
To make that up to her
To try to make that up to her.And that doesn't sit well with me.
Doc John Blocked me for 4 weeks.
I didnt' care because IMO he is crazy anyways
Inconsistent
Says things he regrets (or jolly well should) lol.
Reacts rather than responds
he is a lot like me lol.
But Dr Bob... I expected more.I tried not to idealise him...
But there it is.There it is.
Posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:29:30
In reply to extra-therapy transferences, posted by gardenergirl on March 2, 2006, at 22:14:04
Transference...
Is helped along by not speaking in full sentances.
Transference...
Is helped along by posting ones pic at the top of every page.
Transference...
Is helped along by the asking of questions such as 'how does that make you feel'
Transference...
Is helped along by calling oneself a psychiatrist
By encouraging people to process it.
Etc Etc
Dr Bob?
I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
You do encourage it.
It makes blocks have more... potency.
No?
Posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:32:51
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:03:06
Regarding responsibility...
He doesn't HAVE to do anything.
That is my point. He doesn't HAVE to do anything.
And regarding devotion...
Dinah. I would be sure that you (of all people) would know what I was talking about here. You who have talked (a lot) about your devotion. To your father, to your t, to Bob. You have talked a lot about your devotion to him before... In fact... He even thanked you for it at one point. And I think you took that as a compliment...
Posted by JenStar on March 2, 2006, at 22:33:46
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:24:03
well, again, I'm sorry you're hurting. I don't know how to help. I'm sure my posts are NOT helping actually. I like to debate, but I'm sorry - I think that maybe right now you just need a hug, and not a debate?
(((5)))
I don't know if you get preferential treatment or not...I don't know how to tell. But I don't think you p*** off the majority of the people here! I didn't read anything about the Iran thing (I don't go to the politics board because I KNOW I would only get myself into trouble). But I believe that you're always genuine in what you say, whether it's an apology, a theory, a belief, etc. You seem like a very honest person.Anyway, sorry for the excessive debate. I hope you're feeling better soon.
take care,
JenStar
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 22:36:50
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:24:03
I tend to think you're right in a lot of things.
Not Lar's block reduction. That's a policy change, I believe. And a recent one, so it wouldn't apply to prior blockings. And it has a discrete set of rules to it, so it wouldn't apply to everyone.
And not about you as an outsider. For heavens sake, you've got tons of people here who care about you for one thing. And for another, this is one place where Dr. Bob ensures that outsiders are able to post. Even if the majority isn't too happy about it. He didn't block you for the sake of the majority.
Gosh, it's hard posting to you as 5. Sigh. Because sometimes I really feel like addressing you. You. The you who I've grown to know as a friend. Even if we fight sometimes.
I'm still available by email, you know.
Dinah
Oh lordy. If I email you, will you answer?
Posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 22:43:03
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 22:21:15
I cry in real life when I get blocked, just like how I'm crying now.
Being blocked makes me sad. I don't ever want to be blocked again. Please help me.
This is making me really sad. I don't think Dr. Bob likes me very much. I'm starting to think he wants bad things to happen to me again.
Please give me evidence that he doesn't want me hurt.
I feel sad. I would hurt myself if that's what he wanted me to do.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 23:00:26
In reply to Re: Ethics *trigger*, posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 22:43:03
I was taking a shower when it hit me who you were.
((((((((((((5))))))))))))))
Deneb
Posted by sleepygirl on March 2, 2006, at 23:11:36
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:32:51
I have missed you, and I am truly sorry
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 23:19:53
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:32:51
Well, if I'm not mistaken, he thanked me for my devotion to Babble, not to him. :)
But Bob and Babble have always been inextricably wound together to me like the rose and the briar. So if I'm not devoted to BabbleBob then I must be nuts to spend the time and effort I do here. lol.
Yes, he doesn't have to do anything, in that he could shut down Babble tomorrow and not look back. But he's Bob, and he does have a sense of responsibility. True responsibility doesn't come from an external governing board anyway. As you should know, having been on the receiving end of extreme irresponsibility sanctioned by the external governing board. True responsibility comes from within.
Posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 23:35:18
In reply to Re: Ethics » 5, posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 23:19:53
> But Bob and Babble have always been inextricably wound together to me like the rose and the briar. So if I'm not devoted to BabbleBob then I must be nuts to spend the time and effort I do here. lol.
yeah. i think you have talked about how if he left then you would too. in fact... i think a fair few people said that. and that tends to happen... has happened on another board when the clinician attempted to reduce their input.
> Yes, he doesn't have to do anything, in that he could shut down Babble tomorrow and not look back.
yeah. or he could piss off for a week or so and leave things in the hands of a new moderator. or whatever. he can do whatever he wants.
> he does have a sense of responsibility.
you mean... thus far he has turned up fairly reliably when things started to turn to custard. sure. i've seen that too. but he doesn't HAVE to. but it isn't even about that. i was getting at real life conduct. off these boards. contact people have with him of these boards. if people think he HAS to behave ethically because there will be consequences for him if he does not... well my point is what consequences? there aren't any. he isn't our clinician... he has no duty of care at all. he can do whatever he likes. but i don't think people grasp this... because he is 'dr' bob.
> True responsibility doesn't come from an external governing board anyway. As you should know, having been on the receiving end of extreme irresponsibility sanctioned by the external governing board. True responsibility comes from within.
yeah...
would you see a councellor if you knew they didn't come under an ethical board (so there would be no consequences for unethical behaviour)
would you?
i'd be out of there on first meeting...
yeah he says 'i have no duty to you i'm not your doctor'
but...
he is 'dr' bob.
he puts his pic up
he posts his one liners
he encourages people to process transference issues
etc etc
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 23:36:40
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 23:35:18
Posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 23:50:23
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 23:35:18
Dr. Bob!
There are adverse reactions all over the place. I think 5 had one. 5 is right, you can do whatever you want to do. Adverse reactions don't matter because they don't get reported to anyone besides you and you don't seem to do anything about them. Adverse reactions are important. I think you need to acknowledge them.
5 is right about that transference thing too.
Dr. Bob, I really think you need to conduct a poll about how much blocks hurt people, both the blockee and posters.
Dr. Bob, you also need to admit to making mistakes. Sometimes your blocks, (e.g. in 5's case) don't make sense at all.
This turns blocking into random punishment IMHO. That turns up the stress factor 100%. Soon we will learn to be helpless.
Deneb
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 23:52:42
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 23:50:23
I feel like Linda Blair.
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 3, 2006, at 0:30:41
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 23:35:18
I'm not sure that I agree that Bob is not subject to ethical guidelines. Although I am more familiar with the ethical guidelines for psychologists, I suspect the psychiatrists have similar ones. Ethics are not about enforcable laws (although there is overlap). Ethics are about how one conducts himself or herself professionally. There are many things that one can do that are unethical that are not illegal. And there are many things that are legal that are not ethical.
Psychiatry is a profession that you can't just "check at the door." You are a psych 24 hrs a day, like it or not. The ethics also follow you 24 hrs a day. For example, some professions, like mental health professionals, are mandated reporters of child abuse. Even if you are in a social setting, if you hear something that indicates child abuse you are ethically (and I think legally) bound to report it.
Like most folks on this site, I don't always agree with Bob's decisions. However, I do think that there are limits to his "power" (not sure what word would be best) and that there is some level of accountability even on the internet.
Best,
EE
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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