Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1111131

Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

AD used for sleep?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 3, 2020, at 17:13:45

i've been taking prozac for years, max dose. I can really tell if i don't take it major depression. 80mg is max, but i was wondering, seroonin is help sleep, the only AD that i found that is safe with fluoxetine is trazadone, but is there other one that could be safe with interactions, doxipen i read can cause serotonin syndrome, but i read reports still of people taking fluoxetine and low dose of doxipen. Remeron, they use it as add on to effexor, but not sure about fluoxetine.

just a question if anyone knows, need sleep, gaba receptors can get tolerant

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by sigismund on July 4, 2020, at 2:16:30

In reply to AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 3, 2020, at 17:13:45

Would trimipramine be safe?

I liked it. It improved the depth of my sleep in low doses. It is the only TCA I have been able to tolerate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimipramine

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 4, 2020, at 13:07:01

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by sigismund on July 4, 2020, at 2:16:30

yeah i looked it up, its sedative properties, still doctor is standard treatment, they wouldnt use trimipramine, not saying thats its not effective, but you know some doctors only stick with main mainstream meds. Trimipramine is TCA, they would really be nervous, or not prescribe.

I just thought remeron would help

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by sigismund on July 4, 2020, at 15:38:46

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 4, 2020, at 13:07:01

At 12.5mg a night the sedative effect reminded me of Remeron (5htc antagonism?) without the horrible hangover.

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by undopaminergic on July 5, 2020, at 0:49:34

In reply to AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 3, 2020, at 17:13:45

> i've been taking prozac for years, max dose. I can really tell if i don't take it major depression. 80mg is max, but i was wondering, seroonin is help sleep, the only AD that i found that is safe with fluoxetine is trazadone, but is there other one that could be safe with interactions, doxipen i read can cause serotonin syndrome, ...
>

I doubt doxepin is at all prone to induce serotonin syndrome, unless taken at high doses with MAOIs. It is selective for histamine-H1 receptors at low doses.

Then again, some people respond idiosyncratically to drugs.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by undopaminergic on July 5, 2020, at 0:52:56

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by sigismund on July 4, 2020, at 2:16:30

> Would trimipramine be safe?
>
> I liked it. It improved the depth of my sleep in low doses. It is the only TCA I have been able to tolerate.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimipramine

I'm currently taking trimipramine. It is the best I've tried so far of the drugs classified as "antidepressants", and I've tried a lot. Note that I've not tried any of the classic, unselective, MAOIs, and trimipramine is my first TCA.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: AD used for sleep? rjlockhart37

Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2020, at 8:25:23

In reply to AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 3, 2020, at 17:13:45

Hey RJ,

SSRIs do increase serotonin, but this doesn't always improve sleep. Sleep disturbance is common on SSRIs.

You can combine trazodone, doxepin, or Remeron with fluoxetine. Serotonin syndrome would be very rare. Either of these three is often added to an SSRI to improve sleep. As mentioned, trimipramine is another option.

Linkadge


 

Re: AD used for sleep? undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2020, at 8:27:17

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by undopaminergic on July 5, 2020, at 0:52:56

Yeah, doxepin is very unlikely to cause serotonin syndrome. TCAs like amitriptyline, doxepin or trimipramine are often combined with SSRIs.

Linkadge

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 6, 2020, at 17:14:18

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep? rjlockhart37, posted by linkadge on July 5, 2020, at 8:25:23

prozac taken before bedtime is not a good choice, its a bit actiating, because fluoxetine hits norepinpeprhine recerots, that's why some people find prozac activating. When i first started taking, i moved up the dose, it was so activating. But now i've taken it so long that i can take maybe a 40mg capsule before bedtime, but not 80. I take seroquel and it usally knocks me out. But just wondering, if another serotonin AD could work with prozac

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 6, 2020, at 17:16:36

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 6, 2020, at 17:14:18

the only thing is, i know my doctor wouldnt do doxipen or remeron, they just stick to the main ones. Not exporing, mainly just meds, prozac, just popular medications. I don't think she would do Remeron, maybe doxipen. But i was just asking, maybe in the future if could add a serotonin sleeping medication.

 

Re: AD used for sleep? rjlockhart37

Posted by linkadge on July 7, 2020, at 13:58:21

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 6, 2020, at 17:16:36

Are prozac and seroquel the only meds you are taking?

Linkadge

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by stargazer2 on July 7, 2020, at 14:07:35

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 6, 2020, at 17:16:36

why not put the drugs into a interaction database and find out that way?
Seroquel at a low dose (25-50) works for insomnia for me. I wouldnt take Prozac at night either.
Anytime I tried a new AD, depending on its effects, whether activating or sedating, you just take it at the appropriate time, i.e.take the sedating AD's at night.
Maybe just switching the times would eliminate the insomnia.

I forgot when you said you took the Prozac and dont want to lose my post by looking back.

 

Re: AD used for sleep? stargazer2

Posted by linkadge on July 7, 2020, at 18:31:03

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by stargazer2 on July 7, 2020, at 14:07:35

Yeah, I agree with stargazer that you might switch prozac to the morning. SSRIs can be tough for timing. Sometimes they're too sedating to take in the morning, yet too activating to take at night.

I wouldn't go beyond 40mg of prozac. Even this might be too high (insomnia wise).

If you really need sleep, I would reduce the prozac and increase the seroquel.


Linkadge

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 9, 2020, at 0:22:59

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep? rjlockhart37, posted by linkadge on July 7, 2020, at 13:58:21

prozac, lamictal, nuvigil, seroquel, zyprexa, diazepam

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 9, 2020, at 0:28:40

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 9, 2020, at 0:22:59

sh*t...i shouldnt of posted all the meds, im on alot manic-depressive meds, which link you know the story about me being ripped of stimulants, and stimulant abuse. So over the years they used antipsychotics, to improve or they said "glue" thoughts together. The whole thing could of been treated with a proper stimulant, and a person i live, made a big deal.

so they put me on alot antipsychotics, stablizers to help disorganized thinking for treatment for ADHD, they do help, but i have drink alot of coffee, armodafnil to function, less stimuation=less productity and social life

that's why im on manic depressive meds, high doses

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 9, 2020, at 0:37:27

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 9, 2020, at 0:28:40

it just, lamotragine 400mg originall was dulling, but wen i take it i feel stablized, not worry about mood swings. Zyprexa 10mg helps anxiety, god i've been on it for years, they used seroquel for sleep, moderate high dose, i dont really have any AP interaction with them, they work togeher, but if took stelazine and pimozide, you would be bad trouble

if i could go off all meds, i would stick prozac, its the only mood stablizer, that makes me feel normal in the morning, if i don't take prozac im very depressed, wouldnt be able to post like i do right now

 

Re: AD used for sleep? rjlockhart37

Posted by linkadge on July 9, 2020, at 18:57:34

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 9, 2020, at 0:37:27

I mean if sleep is a major issue you could try increasing seroquel. You may not need both olanzapine and seroquel. You might be able to go on seroquel only. You are also taking lamotrigine which is a mood stabilizer.

The problem with stimulants (if you have bipolar) is that they only increase productivity only until they induce mania / insomnia. I may be bipolar, but still not sure. I stopped ritalin and am doing fairly well on atomoxetine.

I do miss ritalin in a sense, but overall I am doing better off of it.

Interestinly, seroquel metabolizes into another drug called norquetiapine. Norquetiapine is a NRI which can help energy / attention. So it is sedating when you take it, but then it turns into a drug which can increase your energy the next day. Also the nuvigil kind of acts like a stimulant.

What time of day do you take the lamortigine?

The stimulating meds are the nuvigil, prozac and possible lamotrigine. Each of these meds *can* increase insomnia for some people.

Linkadge

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by undopaminergic on July 10, 2020, at 12:01:11

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep? rjlockhart37, posted by linkadge on July 9, 2020, at 18:57:34

>
> The problem with stimulants (if you have bipolar) is that they only increase productivity only until they induce mania / insomnia.
>

It's not a real switch to mania, it's just temporary, till it wears off.

Insomnia, yes, if you take it too close to when you want to sleep. But you can actually exploit the withdrawal effects, ie. lethargy when the dose wears off, for sleep.

The problem is that sometimes they leave you too tired to stay up and work, but too wakeful to go to sleep.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: AD used for sleep? undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on July 15, 2020, at 14:10:41

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by undopaminergic on July 10, 2020, at 12:01:11

>It's not a real switch to mania, it's just >temporary, till it wears off.

This probably depends on the individual's course of bipolar. For example, for some, loss of sleep is the trigger to induce a switch to mania. Once an actual 'manic episode' (vs. say a manic reaction) is induced, it may not subside once the drug wears off.

In a lab dish, cultured brain neuronal cells from bipolar patients are oversensitive to stimuli. They can then continue firing erratically once that stimulus is removed. Elevated dopamine can also disturb the brains circadian rhythm. Stimulating D2 receptors increases GSK3 which can lengthen the wake phase. In a true bipolar patient (not drug induced bipolar III) this may not instantly switch back.

Linkadge

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by undopaminergic on July 17, 2020, at 5:46:14

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep? undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on July 15, 2020, at 14:10:41

> >It's not a real switch to mania, it's just >temporary, till it wears off.
>
> This probably depends on the individual's course of bipolar. For example, for some, loss of sleep is the trigger to induce a switch to mania.
>

Yes, sleep deprivation can induce a manic switch, or perhaps it is rather the other way around: reduced need for sleep is a sign of onsetting (hypo)mania. Moreover, sleep deprivation can induce psychosis.

But in my experience, despite a reduced need for sleep under stimulants, there is no switch, now matter how long you stay up. It is as if the stimulants have a stabilising effect.

And as you said, it varies between individuals.

> Once an actual 'manic episode' (vs. say a manic reaction) is induced, it may not subside once the drug wears off.
>

That is absolutely true if it is indeed a switch. I'm suggesting that it normally isn't.

> In a lab dish, cultured brain neuronal cells from bipolar patients are oversensitive to stimuli. They can then continue firing erratically once that stimulus is removed.
>

That is interesting, but in my experience, (classic) (hypo)mania is a pretty smooth experience, and does not feel "erratic", except perhaps if you regard the impulsiveness as such.

> Elevated dopamine can also disturb the brains circadian rhythm. Stimulating D2 receptors increases GSK3 which can lengthen the wake phase. In a true bipolar patient (not drug induced bipolar III) this may not instantly switch back.
>

As far as I'm aware, elevated dopamine (in some parts of the brain) stimulates wakefulness directly. I don't know whether GSK3 is part of the mechanism. This article suggests Fos may be involved:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16399687/

-undopaminergic

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by linkadge on July 17, 2020, at 16:00:29

In reply to Re: AD used for sleep?, posted by undopaminergic on July 17, 2020, at 5:46:14

>But in my experience, despite a reduced need for >sleep under stimulants, there is no switch, now >matter how long you stay up. It is as if the >stimulants have a stabilising effect.

You may not be typical. Many agents can induce manic episodes or cause switching / rapid cycling etc. Stimulants would be high on the list of agents capable of causing a manic switch. That being said, paradoxically for some bipolars they can be calming.

Linkadge

 

Re: AD used for sleep?

Posted by creepy on July 22, 2020, at 16:23:07

In reply to AD used for sleep?, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 3, 2020, at 17:13:45

they usually prescribe blood pressure meds like clonidine, prazosin. AD's like trazodone, AAPs like quetiapine (basically just an antihistamine at the doses given), antihistamines like hydroxyzine for sleep. those are all usually pretty safe to take with prozac I know I took most of those.
I found that despite the claimed short half-life of hydroxyzine I was groggy for days on end when I took it. even benadryl was better.
I had a weird episode of orthostatic hypotension on prazosin. clonidine is ok but its sedating effect wears off fast and I wake up in 3 hours or so.
mirtazapine? I guess you could. that is one hell of a sleepy drug. And you may want to eat everything in sight

its good to be careful of what you take with prozac it interacts with a bunch of stuff. I used to use that to my advantage when I was low on income and took bupropion with it.


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