![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by B2chica on January 21, 2015, at 2:52:53
today i was having -what i can only guess- were olfactory hallucinations.
they were very foul smells...
i was really trying to get away from people this afternoon (luckily not hard) as i wasn't sure if the foul stench was from me or not, i would smell it like it was, but when i would smell my clothes or hair they were fine.anyway...
i'm really starting to go to the edge now. ...
i was able to get to my pdoc's before they closed tonight, but no one was there. i wrote a nice note, stating my needs and Urgency.. but i'm not sure what they can try...i'm starting to loose hope.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 21, 2015, at 4:52:53
In reply to olfactory hallucinations?, posted by B2chica on January 21, 2015, at 2:52:53
> today i was having -what i can only guess- were olfactory hallucinations.
> they were very foul smells...
> i was really trying to get away from people this afternoon (luckily not hard) as i wasn't sure if the foul stench was from me or not, i would smell it like it was, but when i would smell my clothes or hair they were fine.
>
> anyway...
> i'm really starting to go to the edge now. ...
> i was able to get to my pdoc's before they closed tonight, but no one was there. i wrote a nice note, stating my needs and Urgency.. but i'm not sure what they can try...
>
> i'm starting to loose hope.
>
> B2,
You wrote,[...hallucinations...starting to go to the edge now...no one was there...(u)rgency...not sure what they can try...starting to loose hope...].
The brain has a communication network that can be disrupted when psychotropic drugs are introduced. The drugs have chemicals in them that are {nerve agents}. The chemicals can disrupt the transmission of the communication between the parts of the brain and even cause a crossing over of communications that are a short circuiting of the communication. This could bring on what is not there, which is a hallucination. There is not a way to predict when and what type of hallucination and it stands to reason that more drugs could cause more disruption of the brain's communication between the parts of the brain. This could cause the thinking to be irrationally linked between parts of the brain so that one could be compelled to kill themselves to get out of the horrors of hallucinations, or even kill others thinking that they are doing what is right because of the disruption and linking the brain's different regions irrationally.
There is historical research concerning this that I am prevented from posting here due to the prohibitions to me by Mr. Hsiung. I could bring this out in a discussion with a psychiatrist that is prescribing these drugs to you. In a dialog like that, I could ask questions that your prescriber could answer and then I could post my response.
When you say that you are on the edge now, you still have insight to the situation in some degree. More drugs could cause a change to cause to brain to be disrupted in a different way, like spinning the wheel of chance and the hallucinations may stop or cause other hallucinations to come forward or cause you to kill those around you, hallucinating to think that you are killing a beast that is trying to kill you. This is all a very horrible state to be in and all the drugs given to you could ultimately scramble the different areas of the brain so that you could drive into the sea.
In that you say that you are loosing hope, this is a bad sign now. It could be that your faith in drugs from the psychiatrist is shattered by the reality that you now see what the drugs have done to you. And you may see that once upon a time, the world was sweeter than you know, how happy you were then. But somehow once upon a time, never comes again.
But behold! Once upon a time can come again.
Lou
>
>
>
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 21, 2015, at 7:14:04
In reply to olfactory hallucinations?, posted by B2chica on January 21, 2015, at 2:52:53
B2,
It sounds awful. Do you feel very depressed? Are you hearing voices at all? You mentioned a demon. What meds are you on and have they changed recently? Do you have a diagnosis for your problems at the moment? Have you had similar symptoms before?
Let us know how you are. Stay safe - things can really improve and you need to keep that hope that things will pass. That bit of hope is what makes things tolerable.
Avoid too much caffeine. It's not good when you feel agitated with hallucinations. Very high doses of caffeine have been reported to induce olfactory hallucinations in studies, so you could be susceptible. Coffee is best avoided in this sitation, especially in the afternoon and evening. Be like the English and drink mild tea instead! It's much more calming with its lower caffeine content and L-theanine to counteract the side effects of caffeine. Alternatively, you could have some herbal tea like Chamomile. Chamomile tea is cheap, mildly calming and caffeine free.
Stopping or reducing benzos can be associated with extreme sensitivity to smells. Mild odours can be very strong. A whiff of sweat can smell like a stench. The smell of food can be sickening. Have you recently reduced or stopped a benzo?
Posted by b2chica on January 21, 2015, at 12:39:10
In reply to Re: olfactory hallucinations?, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 21, 2015, at 7:14:04
hi ed
i feel depressed but not how i was this weekend (low mobility...etc.)
part of me wants to just stare at the wall but the other half wants to run to the nearest bridge...etc.
voices not yet, but i do have this... dystonic thoughts coming back -dont seem to be from me-my current pdoc is really a newbie with me. she has never had to deal with this before as my last pdoc had meds so great. anyway, she doesnt understand (or atleast believe, when i tell her things about my meds).
yes meds have changed in that she wanted to strip me of all meds except the pristiq. well guess what that has done. i have had one hospital trip and if i trusted the docs a little better or had hope that they would help i would go again... all they can do is attempt to keep me safe. although im unfortuntely pretty smart and i've several times snuck in a knive and cords... (again, that pushing the limit thing... "just to see").
So i'd rather just o.d. and end up in a coma than put my family in any more debt... and yes i get the irony and oxymoron statement i just made about coma and debt. but i'm not clicking on all cylinder's and just want to lay down and curl up.yes, this is a pattern when my depression gradiates downward.
i only have a little coffee/tea in the a.m maybe 6-8 ounces. it mostly gives me heartburn these days so even pop is minimal if any. mostly hot organic-herbal tea/water/gatorade type drinks.
interesting about the benzo's. i stopped after my hospital visit on jan 5th. yesterday i was smelling things that were just very unpleasant, some i didnt know just adverse response to it. one was like a 'dirty' cigarette smell. i kept thinking that maybe i had it on me from a friend i saw last weekend... but not sure how. the other was (gross) the smell of feces... i was suire it was cpoming from me somehow, but when i'd smell myself closely (smell clothes and hair) it was not coming from me. my clothes and hair smelled fine. (like lavendar even).
***********
with all that said. i have a sleep problem (which is what started all this down hill to begin with.
lets see, last night i layed down at 3:23 and woke at 6:30 am. this is pretty tyipcaly 3-3:30 and with work i wake between 6 and 7 depending.
so i am sure this is all related somehow to sleep deprevation.
i sometimes think that this is going to kill me. that i will die from not enough sleep.
the reason i am starting to loose faith is that i've been Actively asking for help for MONTHS.. and i am no better off.
whats thepoint of me trying anymore if no one is taking this seriously and helping me.i stopped by my pdoc last night right before they closed and wwrote a note for either the nurse or pdoc ASAP and told them EXACTLY how i felt and how i NEED pharma intervention (something!!).
i receievd a message stating that someone would check into this and call me asap today.
...it is 12:30 and have not heard from anyone.anyway, i'm tired again.
i'm going to go find a cubby here at work somewhere and hide for a bit.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 21, 2015, at 14:33:23
In reply to Re: olfactory hallucinations?, posted by b2chica on January 21, 2015, at 12:39:10
Hi B2,
>diagnosis has varied.. the last two were bouncing between psychotic depression and (more likely) bipolar Mixed.
Can I ask.... what were you prescribed amphetamine (Adderall) for? Amphetamines often produce a pronounced short-term mood elevation but can aggravate mood disorders in the long run, lead to issues with dependence and misuse, induce psychotic symptoms (especially voices) and cause considerable insomnia. In the long-term, amphetamines rarely improve depression and can make it worse. Reducing the dose too fast or stopping abruptly can certainly exacerbate depressive symptoms though - very much so.... it is temporary, but a gradual reduction over a few weeks is safer for your mental health, provided that you can avoid the temptation to take extra doses. Amphetamine withdrawal symptoms tend to be especially bad for about ten days after stopping. Severe fatigue, depression and feeling completely unable to cope are common. On the bright side, symptoms often start to improve quite a lot about 2 weeks after stopping. In some cases; mood, anxiety and sleep may be much improved a few weeks after discontinuation. I do feel that amphetamine is likely to be harmful in psychotic depression, even if it appears to give you temporary boosts. I don't know whether you're still taking it though..... Amphetamine treatment is generally a bad idea for anyone with a tendency to misuse medication, anyone with insomnia or psychosis, anyone with a history of eating disorders etc. Short-terms gains are often followed by longer term problems and more distress. If you have already stopped amphetamine, I wouldn't personally recommend that you restart.
Have you tried lithium? Or Seroquel?
Seroquel is used a lot in psychotic depression, bipolar depression and mixed states. It could be an alternative if Zyprexa isn't working too well for you at the moment. Seroquel is not (usually) a more effective antipsychotic than Zyprexa, but may have more antidepressant effect for some people.
Lithium is useful in many types of bipolar/mood disorder. It may improve stability in the long-term and reduce suicidal thoughts and behavior, making you safer. It can readily be combined with the likes of Seroquel or Zyprexa if needed. Many people need this type of combination.
Antidepressants are often necessary in psychotic depression, but can be a problem in bipolar disorder. If you have manic/mixed symptoms alongside your depression (rapid thoughts and speech, excess energy - not caused by Adderall, flight of ideas from one topic to another etc), antidepressants may be a problem. If you have depression and anxiety without manic symptoms, antidepressants are much more likely to help. You need the input of a good doctor here. Have you ever had an episode of mania in the past?
>right now i am in the -meta- phase of suicidal ideation.. however i am starting with more agitation and despair.
I'm wondering whether a bit of lithium could help, unless your symptoms are more to do with medication withdrawal. Lithium often reduces suicidal thoughts and agitation associated with mood disorders. You wouldn't necessarily need a high dose or have many side effects.
>yes meds have changed in that she wanted to strip me of all meds except the pristiq. well guess what that has done.
So you stopped the benzo and Adderall? Wasn't it Xanax you were on? How long had you been on these other meds and what doses were you on?
Illusions and other perceptual disturbances are very common after stopping high-potency benzos which have been used for a few months or more. After stopping a benzo, illusions are MUCH more common than true hallucinations (which are rare). The illusions are often accompanied by tremor, panic, severe anxiety, feelings of unreality, fear without a clear cause, muscle tension, blurred vision, increased sense of smell, sensitivity to being touched, sensitivity to loud noises, sweating (especially heavy night sweats), rapid heart rate, dilated pupils, restlessness and temporarily aggravated depression. Illusions in the absence of any of the above symptoms are unlikely to be related to withdrawal. Bear in mind, benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms are not relieved by Zyprexa or other antipsychotics. The mental symptoms of depression, anxiety and bipolar disorder can resemble withdrawal symptoms.... but some symptoms are much more typical of withdrawal. As examples: dilated pupils, constantly rapid heart rate, severe sweating, tremor and hypersensitivity of the senses are more representative of withdrawal states.
>interesting about the benzo's. i stopped after my hospital visit on jan 5th. yesterday i was smelling things that were just very unpleasant, some i didnt know just adverse response to it.
It's not clear to me whether these were hallucinations or extreme over-sensitivity to actual smells. Rapid benzo withdrawal produces sensitivity to all smells, not just bad smells. Perfume and food smells may be overpowering or nauseating. You may notice the smell of other people, smells in the environments smells on your clothes, towels and bedding (especially if you sweat at night). Olfactory hallucinations associated with depression are normally bad smells which someone believes is coming for their own body - but in this case there is no oversensitivity to other smells in the environment. Olfactory hallucinations in depression normally occur when the depression is very severe. Perceptual disturbances after stopping a benzo generally occur at the same time as panic states, tremor and sweating.
You could test yourself by spraying perfume... does it smell normal and pleasant or unusually overpowering? Has this symptom appeared since stopping benzos or did you have it before? That's a major clue as well. In general, withdrawal symptoms from Xanax are particularly severe in the week following discontinuation. The symptoms would have peaked around 7th-14th January and then probably improved slightly. If you do have withdrawal symptoms, you are likely to notice an improvement spontaneously over the next couple of weeks. On the other hand, if your symptoms are more related to severe depression, a spontaneous improvement is less likely and medication such as an antipsychotic or lithium could help you a lot. Anti-epileptics such as Depakote and Tegretol can be of some benefit both during benzo withdrawal and as an add-on to antidepressants in bipolar folk.
>so i am sure this is all related somehow to sleep deprivation.
The relationship between sleep and mood disoders is complex. Mood disorders can cause poor sleep - this occurs in depression and mixed states. Mania tends to cause over excitement with a reduced need for sleep. Depression normally leads to fatigue and the desire to sleep, but it's very difficult to actually get the sleep. Severe anxiety and benzo withdrawal almost always causes problems with sleep. Severe sweating during sleep is typical of benzo (or alcohol) withdrawal - it is not typical of anxiety or depression. This may give you a clue. Unusually vivid dreams occur for several weeks after stopping benzos and Adderall. This is called an REM rebound. It improves spontaneously. Nightmares can also occur in depression.
Several weeks ago, you were taking Adderall and benzos - and were unwell. But... were you unwell in a different way to how you are at the moment? If so, how did your symptoms differ?
>that i will die from not enough sleep.
Many people feel that. It's horrible. But... people don't die for this reason. The body forces itself to have tiny micro sleeps even if your sleep quality is extremely bad. This means that you will never die purely from insomnia. Alcohol use is a major cause of sleep disruption, even in people who find it beneficial for falling asleep.... do you drink? Vitamin deficiencies caused by alcohol can cause further mental health problems. A good B-complex is appropriate.
> the reason i am starting to loose faith is that i've been Actively asking for help for MONTHS.. and i am no better off.Have you heard from your pdoc? I hope my reply gives you a few ideas RE what the cause of your current problems may be. Of course, your problems may well have several causes, not just one. This is the norm, not the exception.
Take care B2.
Posted by herpills on January 21, 2015, at 19:58:11
In reply to Re: olfactory hallucinations?, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 21, 2015, at 14:33:23
Ed, you are a great resource here. Thank you.
Bchica- I hope that you feel better soon...you know you have people here supporting your recovery.
Have you ever tried Saphris? It's similar to Zyprexa, Seroquel...I had really great sleep on that medication when I was having a really rough time, sleep problems, mixed states, anxiety, etc...
Posted by JayOriginal2nd on January 22, 2015, at 20:29:08
In reply to olfactory hallucinations?, posted by B2chica on January 21, 2015, at 2:52:53
> today i was having -what i can only guess- were olfactory hallucinations.
> they were very foul smells...
> i was really trying to get away from people this afternoon (luckily not hard) as i wasn't sure if the foul stench was from me or not, i would smell it like it was, but when i would smell my clothes or hair they were fine.
>
> anyway...
> i'm really starting to go to the edge now. ...
> i was able to get to my pdoc's before they closed tonight, but no one was there. i wrote a nice note, stating my needs and Urgency.. but i'm not sure what they can try...
>
> i'm starting to loose hope.
>
>
I had the same experience. It stops when my doc increases my dose of lyrica, and up to 150mg of nortiptyline.Jay
>
>
>
Posted by ClearSkies on January 22, 2015, at 21:02:11
In reply to olfactory hallucinations?, posted by B2chica on January 21, 2015, at 2:52:53
B2, I have been experiencing these all my life, since infancy. I don't consider them hallucinations, but and extra biological sense that's triggered when I am
Physically stressed to the point of illness
Emotionally stressed to the point of escapist behaviours
I smelled both bad and good odours
Of course, noone else was able to smell what I could.Now I use it as the extra sense I consider it, as a red flag that I am REALLY not well.
I keep thinking about the psychiatrist Oliver Sachs and the books he's published about different abilities, and some experiences as a result of damage.
I don't know. Nobody, no doctor or specialist, has ever thought it was a problem, nor had any idea what to do about it.
Posted by B2chica on January 22, 2015, at 22:49:16
In reply to Re: olfactory hallucinations?, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 21, 2015, at 14:33:23
Seroquel was AWESOME for sleep but ended up giving me cognitive blunting
not lithium intact my T mentioned that to me today.
i have no logic for it, but im scared to death of lithium my best friend from high school was on that when she killed herself. .. i know theres no cause effect..etc, etc but i cant get past it
maybe someday.the illusions are a long standing thing with me the worse my depression gets the worse my illusions (then hallucinations).
the smells i was convinced were coming from me somehow, just because the smells followed me wherever i went, but i smelled myself and when i got my clothing next to my nose it was clear they were not the culprit, however the primary smells were 1) a dirty cigarette smell (i dont smoke) and the second well, i could only describe it as feces. and i smell myself all over (several times) because i swore!! it was coming from me.
ok i have to stop writing.. talking about this is triggering me again.
i need to jump, i need to jump is what im hearing and what i NEEEEEEEEEX to do
but i cant, i cant i cant
PLEASE i need to take something to KNOCK ME OUT
i may need to go to the ER again..
Posted by B2chica on January 22, 2015, at 22:51:45
In reply to Re: olfactory hallucinations?, posted by herpills on January 21, 2015, at 19:58:11
yes, my last bout i took saphris.
the hunger really wasnt that bad, but i went up in dose as much as pdoc allowed and it just wanst enough to help my depression..
but thanks
b2
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 23, 2015, at 4:39:07
In reply to Re: olfactory hallucinations?, posted by B2chica on January 22, 2015, at 22:49:16
Hi B2,
>Seroquel was AWESOME for sleep but ended up giving me cognitive blunting
You could probably still take a small dose at night to help you settle without causing blunting. How about getting some from your doc urgently if you don't already have some? You need something to help you through this period B2. I don't think the cognitive issues would be a problem if you're just taking a small dose for a short time. At the moment, you need relief of your insomnia and distress. That's the priority, so Seroquel could help here. Could you get a small number of Seroquel at the ER maybe?
>not lithium intact my T mentioned that to me today.
> i have no logic for it, but im scared to death of lithium my best friend from high school was on that when she killed herself. .. i know theres no cause effect..etc, etc but i cant get past it
> maybe someday.Really sorry to hear that. Lithium is often one of the best meds for people with severe mood disorders who feel very suicidal.
>the illusions are a long standing thing with me the worse my depression gets the worse my illusions (then hallucinations).
OK, I don't think it's related to stopping benzos in that case. It must be a symptom of the severe depression.
Be safe.
Posted by B2chica on January 23, 2015, at 12:24:51
In reply to Re: olfactory hallucinations? » B2chica, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 23, 2015, at 4:39:07
ya i think getting Anything from my pdoc urgently is out of the question im still waiting on approval for Clozaril (she told me over the phone they could do that, but nothing ever happened).
Posted by zonked on January 29, 2015, at 0:23:59
In reply to olfactory hallucinations?, posted by B2chica on January 21, 2015, at 2:52:53
Please don't be alarmed by this, but I suggest you ask your GP for a neurology referral (if you don't already have a neurologist) or a CT scan on the double, just as a rule-out.
Olfactory hallucinations were one of my mom's symptoms she had off and on for years, that I wish I'd caught, that eventually were discovered to be a product of a malignant brain tumor.
She described them as like smelling something burning.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 29, 2015, at 8:36:08
In reply to Re: olfactory hallucinations? » B2chica, posted by zonked on January 29, 2015, at 0:23:59
>She described them as like smelling something burning.
Tumor in temporal lobe?
Posted by zonked on January 29, 2015, at 23:43:01
In reply to Re: olfactory hallucinations? » zonked, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 29, 2015, at 8:36:08
> >She described them as like smelling something burning.
>
> Tumor in temporal lobe?
>Spot on! RIP, Mom. :/
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.