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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 182. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hunk20 on May 8, 2010, at 22:54:57
Hey guys,
i was a silent reader for 2 month.. now becoming active with this thread and trying to help and get help.I was reading pretty much everything i could. I liked what i read, especially the pro social aspect and the efficiancy/longlasting effects it is said to have.
If its allowed i can post a collection of nardil related links...?
Anyways the first Pdoc i went to, a really good guy was willing to prescribe me what i wanted, nardil.I started out low on 15mg for 5 days, went to 30 for 5 days, then to 45mg for like 7 days.. Then i did something without permission of my Pdoc: 60mg. I know stupid. I was desperate.
3 Days on 60mg, while and after watching the movie "PROZAC NATION" kabooom i felt VERY different, had crying spills, all the childhood stuff, all the mistakes i did, mistakes my parents did, my problems rushed through my head. No more denial. Pure Raw Truth in my head.
Truth also about how i tried to keep me numb with drugs, a horrible relationship, bodybuilding, porn and stripclubs. It was the most intense emotional pain i ever had. I am serious. I was lying 4 days in bed crying. But after a while it actually felt good to cry.. because it is an EMOTION it shows i am alive.It was like waking up in a different world. The world of truth instead of denial.. the world of EMOTIONS. I didnt know what that is prior to nardil. And i didnt know how shut down i was. It litterally felt like rising from the world of fake, the world of numbing emotional pain to the world of truth. I was so scared. Scared of what is coming and very scared to fall back to the world that was behind me.
Called Pdoc, immediatly went back to 45mg, because it was too much to take. Its still difficult for me to handle emotion. Agression, Sadness, Joy sometimes. I bump into people badly sometimes, because i am used to try hard to not sound like a pussy. Now with nardil thats too much lol.
I have a whole better connection to people. I like people more and vice versa. I am better at holding conversations, more joking. I literally went into the store and everybody i talked to LOVED me. I was like what is going on here. people were never so friendly to me.
Depression is defenitly lifted. Like i said i feel more alive, people comment on how i act and look "happier".BUT: i cant handle all this emotion. its too much so now i was put on 2 1/2 pills. It is a bit dangerous because i sometimes feel so sad that i get some suicidal thoughts. Maybe because i isolated myself a bit, too. The doc said it might be the wrong medication but i told him it might be just that i was so used to being depressed that i couldnt handle feeling normal yet.
He agreed its a possibility and whe should see how it works out. Slowly increase.
But its true, i was a complete emotionless guy. My dog died whom i loved alot. He was very important to me. He had to be killed because he was too sick. They (family) did it with a doc when i was on a vacation. Thats kind of the way it goes in my family. I didnt really shed any tears. Infact the dog was just gone. Thats it. No reaction. So i figured thats a big part of my problem. Somewhere in my childhood i had a couple of events (nasty divorce) where i unfortunatly had to learn how to be numb. thats why i feel i need to process lots of things with a therapist.
SIDE EFFECTS: insomnia. maybe overly emotional, but that needs to be seen with time. Sex still works, may take longer to get it up but it gets up everything ok. Can finish off not worse than before. Thats pretty much it.

I figured i need a whole lot of therapy, because of the emotion and thought thing i initially had and still have. I kind of want to process my childhood. Im still very young so it could be worth it. Do you guys know which kind of therapist i should consult? 
Important to me is that he/she is very empathetic and that i can go like 2 or 3 times a week and can show my emotions and pain. Long Term.

Anyways feel free to ask questions, drop comments, ill check back soon.
I feel for you guys, now that i actually have feelings again;) Hang in there.
Posted by emmanuel98 on May 9, 2010, at 0:04:10
In reply to NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 8, 2010, at 22:54:57
I also went through a several day long crying jag when I started parnate. This was a relief after feeling spiritually and emotionally dead for months before I started.
It sounds like you would benefit from psychodynamic psychotherapy, which is traditional talk therapy, no CBT or DBT techniques. Emphasis on exploring and integrating one's past and understanding one's emotions.
Posted by desolationrower on May 9, 2010, at 0:42:30
In reply to NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 8, 2010, at 22:54:57
emotions are good. any tendency to bipolar?
-d/r
Posted by SLS on May 9, 2010, at 5:56:11
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by desolationrower on May 9, 2010, at 0:42:30
> emotions are good. any tendency to bipolar?
>
> -d/r
I was thinking this to be a possibility also. It is hard to know, though. Emerging from depression can be an epiphanic experience. Also, there is the tendency for Nardil to produce euphoria initially. Reduced need for sleep is often a more objective index - 4 hours of less. This shouldn't be confused with insomnia where someone does not feel rested sleeping so few hours. When I was manic, I felt okay sleeping only 3 hours. I am always surprised when someone who is manic reports needing 8 hours of sleep. It does happen, though.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 9, 2010, at 6:28:21
In reply to NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 8, 2010, at 22:54:57
Hi Hunk (good name btw),
Very interesting to hear your experience, thanks for posting.
I think you should keep in touch with your doctor very regularly while you adjust to Nardil. The effects are obviously quite profound and need to be monitored to ensure that the dose is correct. I do expect that your emotions will become less intense after you've been on Nardil for a few months, however.
> If it's allowed, I can post a collection of Nardil related links...
Yes, it's allowed.
Posted by Phillipa on May 9, 2010, at 13:50:45
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 9, 2010, at 6:28:21
Hunk the best of luck and welcome to babble. Phillipa
Posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 16:48:43
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Phillipa on May 9, 2010, at 13:50:45
Guys thanks for the comments so far.
Emmanuel i will look into it. Thanks. The kind of person is very important for me therapywise. Mentally healthy himself and a big good heart. Just a lovingly person.
This is actually the first antidepressant i tried, so ive pretty much been depressend for large parts of my life. St Johns wort helped me through the last phase of school and it + me did a pretty good job there. But it didnt nearly have the efficiancy of nardil. This is like a cannon lol.
Bipolar is a concern of my pdoc and me. however i never had manic nor hypomanic phases prior to nardil. I think i was a bit above normal sometimes but very rarely. Felt sh*t alot though lol
But mood swings, yes they were part of my day-day life.Now with nardil i did have insomnia, but i didnt feel fine with it. The opposite i felt completly wasted. It might have been slight hypomania in the beginning on 60mg.
My mood on nardil has fluctuations, but not that much. I got kicked outta my hostfamily home, because i spoke up against the father, who thought its ok to give me sh*t about my condition. (i rarely spoke up that way against people in my life) The 2 days after alone in the hotel room have been extremly tough but thats somewhat normal. The female part of the family have been awesome, i could talk about everything with them. They were really supportive. Its kind of a brake up from two very good friends to me.
Can you guys think of a med that would give me some more stability? maybe low dose lithium? im having a rough time right now. Waking up from 20 years of depression aint easy.
Thanks for the kind welcoming;) The Nardil link list will follow soon.
Posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 17:01:23
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 16:48:43
oh the heavy reaction was being managed with lorazepam and sometimes the insomnia. my doc gave me ambien and zyprexa to try wich one works best for sleep and if things are getting too heavy. Dont like zyprexa didnt try ambien yet.
Im not happy with all these meds i wanna take as few as possible. Hopefully its just short term.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 9, 2010, at 18:14:04
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 16:48:43
>This is actually the first antidepressant I tried...
?
I've never heard of Nardil being prescribed as a first-line antidepressant.
Posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 19:01:45
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 9, 2010, at 18:14:04
> >This is actually the first antidepressant I tried...
>
> ?
>
> I've never heard of Nardil being prescribed as a first-line antidepressant.Actually tried a few, but not really. Denial was faster than any possible effects of the drug. Know what i mean?
I am careful to not eat the wrong stuff and i carry prescribed NIFEDIPINE (a calcium channel blocker) with me at all times in my wallet. Im save trust me. This is something i wanted to throw in here anyway since its a very good idea to have it for the possible worst case.
This whole food reaction(hypertensive reaction) hysteria is overblown and makes some people waste years on med trials. I didnt want to be one of them, i want to start true LIFE. Better yesterday than today. Its just me. Dont say everyone should do it.
I did tons of research on every antidepressant imaginable. And i saw nardil and i knew this is for you.
So i made this Nardil decision and i also made the decision to do extensive therapy now that i can axcess my emotions and i will stay with it. I got hopes that with this combo i will be able to make profound positive changes in my life and find to myself.
I dont say there arent risks, i just say i know them and i am willing to handle them. I will say it here for everybody who is new to the topic: YES you got to be CAREFUL and NEED TO LEARN THE FOODS TO AVOID, but you dont need to go crazy about it.
Please accept it and dont make this hypertensive reaction thing a discussion here.
Posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 19:55:26
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 19:01:45
General
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050527/msgs/505623.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?post=/babble/20070419/msgs/752666.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100204/msgs/936248.htmlPossible Sexual Disfunction
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20080110/msgs/812653.html
http://altmedicine.about.com/od/herbsupplementguide/a/tongkat_ali.htmProlactin lowering drugs worth a look, Cabergoline. But (extreme) caution is advised here due to effects on dopamine. I dont have that problem for now. Need to be careful with everyting you add to nardil. Lots and research and start with very cautios dose increasing if you want to try something.
Tribulus is also worth a look into.
I dont post sources for meds for obvious reasons. Talk about it with your pdoc.Dietary restrictions,
http://www.psychotropical.com/maois_diet_full.shtml
MAOI Guide
(drug interactions, food)
http://www.psychotropical.com/MAOIs_Information_full.shtmlPsychotropical research in general worth a look into, seems good to me.
Medical Bracelet:
A good idea to have one in case you have an emergency and are unconcious, so the doctors know whats going on and dont give you the wrong drugs that can KILL you.
GOOGLE: medical bracelet/medical information MAOI/Nardil ; Anesthaetics Nardil, etc.Unfortunately I didnt save everything interesting I read about nardil but you can google your way there. Hope this can help some of you though.
Aside from food interactions there are also drug interactions. This is more of a biggie. Very careful with anything you take, check first if you can take it. And if its borderline, careful dosage increasing.
And like I said a medical bracelet and an emergency med for hypertensive crisis is a very good idea.
This is not supposed to be complete nor am i taking responsibility for anything you do.
Now we got the risks covered, so please back to the topic:
experience and advice with nardils EFFECTS and me:)
See you soon
Posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 20:26:34
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 19:55:26
and thanks in advance
Posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 0:39:16
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 9, 2010, at 20:26:34
Hey Hunk20,
I've been on Nardil for most of the past 12 years so I'm going to throw a few things out. First, be very careful with the nifedipine. A lot of doctors will not prescribe it now because it can lower the blood pressure too quickly and for too long a time. Sometimes a minor tyramine reaction can turn into a major problem if the bite and swallow nifedipine lowers the blood pressure too much. I once spent a night in the hospital because the tyramine reaction was over and the nifedipine kept lowering my BP. My headache was bad, I almost bit another nifedipine capsule, I could have died. More people die from low BP than high BP.
Reference: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8861992
OK - Enough on BPI am assuming your depression is atypical and you have a very good doctor. Most will make you wade through multiple trials of SSRIs, a TCA and at least one newer medication before giving you the Nardil. Sounds like you may have picked a good one.
One more thing to look out for, and you are probably in the middle of it right now. When I first took Nardil and it kicked in 12 years ago, it was like throwing a switch. The depression just went away. However, it was replaced with a euphoric hypomania that lasted for weeks. My God, what a good feeling. When you are really depressed for a long time that euphoria just feels so good. It is a very common response, but do not mistake it for the true Nardil antidepressant effect. The people that do, sometimes end up chasing that euphoria, or think the medication has pooped out when it stops. Enjoy it, but do not make any major life changes while in this condition. It can make things appear just too rosy. Bad financial and social decisions can be made, similar to true mania in bipolars. Just recognize it for what it is, and it is a temporary condition.
I am a true Nardil believer. 45+ different combinations of antidepressants and augmenters. Nardil + clonazepam is the only combination that has ever worked for my atypical depression and social anxiety.
Be Well my friend,
Jedi
Posted by Hunk20 on May 11, 2010, at 18:08:52
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 0:39:16
Jedi, good to hear you are doing well with nardil. What can i say i am a believer, too. I am on 2 pills now and am doing fine, mentally more fine than ever. Just the insomnia and slight hypotension. I try to handle it with a little salt.
I am using this time to do a lot of therapy, since my nardil "epiphany" showed me that there is need. And to make friends.
I kinda know what you are talking about with the euphoria. Hmm bad life decisions.. i never was a good decision maker so it can only get better, but ill try to control myself.I am new to the usa and might be staying for studies or job school. (whatever that might be. gotta do therapy first i hope then ill be able to choose better)
All i know is that i need a lot of therapy and find good friends.What about insomnia? how do you handle it, did it pass?
i heard often that most side effects pass with a couple of month?
Thanks and take care
The nifedipine.. thanks for that my doctor told me but in the case of a reaction i might have been not careful enough with it if you didnt warn me.
Posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 18:53:44
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 11, 2010, at 18:08:52
HUNK20,
At low dose I have little or no insomnia. Almost no side effects, but I've been on the medication for most of 12 years. At higher doses, I'm talking 90mg, the insomnia always has to be treated. Lucky for me, I am really sensitive to the histamine medications. Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride at 50mg knocks me right out. Weight gain is an issue at higher dosages because of carbohydrate cravings. I also think Nardil does something to your system where you can just keep eating way past the point of being full. Never had a problem with orthostatic hypotension, in fact Nardil actually treats my borderline hypertension and keeps me off the beta blockers. Ejaculation delay is the other biggie at higher dosages. Sometimes no ejaculation at all at 90mg. Oh well! There are worse things. Like lying in a fetal position on the floor, wondering how you are going to survive the next ten minutes of life. Depression Sucks! Side effects can be dealt with!
Be Well,
Jedi
Posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 0:50:45
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 18:53:44
Help people i havent been sleeping last night already.
sh.. the sleep is really getting a problem. So just an antihistamine knocks you out? Im taking zyprexa 2.5 mg and 5mg and im still here not a sleep.
I have benadryl here. Can i combine the two? zyprexa plus benadryl?
I dont want to have to give up on nardil.. no way not after i felt the efficiancy of this drug and this "epiphany". I know what i need to do. I know nardil helps me to be myself and can support me big time.
Posted by jedi on May 12, 2010, at 10:55:42
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 0:50:45
> Help people i havent been sleeping last night already.
>
> sh.. the sleep is really getting a problem. So just an antihistamine knocks you out? Im taking zyprexa 2.5 mg and 5mg and im still here not a sleep.
>
> I have benadryl here. Can i combine the two? zyprexa plus benadryl?
>
> I dont want to have to give up on nardil.. no way not after i felt the efficiancy of this drug and this "epiphany". I know what i need to do. I know nardil helps me to be myself and can support me big time.Hunk20,
Benadryl works for me most of the time, as long as I have not built up tolerance. I would not think Benadryl would be a problem with Zyprexa. Some will say it is a problem with a MAOI. Just straight Benadryl is not. On MAOIs you have to read labels. They mix different medications together and almost all over the counter cold aids are no-nos. Don't give up on a medication that is working because of insomnia. That can be treated. I also use micro doses of quetiapine fumarate(Seroquel) from 12.5 to 25mg This just puts me down. In the past I have used trazodone at 100mg. This is a very common sleep aid for Nardil. Then there are the whole range of medications that are actually for sleep. Benzos work short time, but tolerance is built quickly to the sleepiness effect. Don't quit the Nardil. Almost everybody that uses a MAOI has to use a sleep aid. Just the way it is.
Good Luck,
Jedi
Posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 21:01:53
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 12, 2010, at 10:55:42
Thanks again, Jedi.
Ill try a 2.5 zyprexa and 50mg diphenhydramine tonight.
I gotta say i dont like zyprexa.. I dont like the feeling the next morning and day.
Feels like it takes an edge of the antidepressant effect of nardil the whole next day.
Is there anything that blocks dopamine action just for a couple of hours?
Posted by jedi on May 12, 2010, at 21:47:24
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 21:01:53
> Thanks again, Jedi.
>
> Ill try a 2.5 zyprexa and 50mg diphenhydramine tonight.
>
> I gotta say i dont like zyprexa.. I dont like the feeling the next morning and day.
>
> Feels like it takes an edge of the antidepressant effect of nardil the whole next day.
> Is there anything that blocks dopamine action just for a couple of hours?
>
Hi again,
This article refers to the antipsychotics and has information on half life:
http://www.psych.uic.edu/pmdc/pharmbook.pdf
Jedi
Posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 22:47:49
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 12, 2010, at 21:47:24
This is why i dont feel good today. Damn zyprexa.
30 hours half life vs 7 seroquel hours with seroquel.
I will tell my doc to give me seroquel.
Whats the sense in taking an antidepressant and a depressant that affects me during the day !! :(
could be taking nothing instead
Posted by Dan_MI on May 14, 2010, at 15:32:40
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 12, 2010, at 22:47:49
Hunk,
Just remember your brain is not a machine, and these drugs do not work instantly. And follow Jedi's advice: Don't get started chasing the euphoric dragon. Once you have a hypomanic episode your brain learns how to do it again...and then the real problems start.
Posted by Hunk20 on May 14, 2010, at 22:21:00
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Dan_MI on May 14, 2010, at 15:32:40
What do you mean by chasing the euphoric dragon?
Posted by Hunk20 on May 14, 2010, at 22:43:17
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 0:39:16
I CAN enjoy it while it lasts?
or its dangerous and should be treated?It feels a bit strange to me because im supersocial in that state. I was not a very social guy before.
I take only 30mg.
Thanks
Posted by Hunk20 on May 15, 2010, at 1:20:58
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 14, 2010, at 22:43:17
And what do i have to watch out for, what does true mania feel like? You scared me a bit.
Posted by Dan_MI on May 15, 2010, at 11:48:22
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in, posted by Hunk20 on May 15, 2010, at 1:20:58
"Chasing the dragon" is a phrase that means to chase a high you once experienced but now is unattainable.
For me, real mania is increased social/sexual activity, talking very fast, my facial muscles tense up, I roll my tongue and grind my teeth, and I go days without sleep. Each manic episode picks up where the other one left off, and the insomnia becomes more severe each time. I've walked out on 3 jobs when I've been manic. I spent $700 in Wal-mart once. I bought volumes of legal books in Barnes & Noble.
So I'd be real careful not to train your brain to have a tendency towards mania. It has been much more destructive to my life than depression.
> And what do i have to watch out for, what does true mania feel like? You scared me a bit.
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