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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tensor on November 26, 2003, at 15:24:07
Hi,
since you are the nardil champion maybe you could help me with a few questions. I am not responding to SSRI, TCA etc. anymore so i'm considering MAOI, namely Nardil(or parnate). What are you taking it for? Were you also non-respondant to other AD's? I suffer from depression, which is keeping me in bed 24/7, panic disorder and social phobia. But depression is the big issue, the others are controlled by klonopin.
What do you think? Should i try something else first, like wellbutrin? And how about the diet../tensor
Posted by ace on November 26, 2003, at 20:03:46
In reply to A question for ACE, posted by tensor on November 26, 2003, at 15:24:07
> Hi,
>
> since you are the nardil champion maybe you could help me with a few questions. I am not responding to SSRI, TCA etc.Which SSRIs have you tried and what are your symptoms?
anymore so i'm considering MAOI, namely Nardil(or parnate).
I would choose Nardil over Parnate, specifically the OLD Nardil.
What are you taking it for?1. Depression
2. Severe OCD
3. Depersonalization Disorder
3. Severe Phobic Anxiety
3. Social Phobic Symptoms
4. Generalized Anxiety Disorder SymptomsWere you also non-respondant to other AD's?
Yes. Or just an average respondent.
I suffer from depression, which is keeping me in bed 24/7, panic disorder and social phobia.
That's terrible. It must be hard to do anything in that state.
But depression is the big issue, the others are controlled by klonopin.
That's good. However I have a hunch that Nardil will contol those probs too, and you will be able to lower or even stop the Klonopin. Nardil has worked wonders on my anxiety. Turned my constant frightened brain in to a calm relaxed river.
> What do you think?
Nardil for depression is outstanding. It usually actually causes a low-level euphoria- you are motivated, happy doing just about anything. You feel so confident on Nardil. The only thing that gets you down is the fact that the day isn't long enough!
Remember but
1. It takes time to work
2. It takes the right dose
3. There are some initial s/effects
4. I don't recommend mixing too many drugs with it- other drugs can work against it.Should i try something else first, like wellbutrin?
I don't think so. I believe your depression sounds severe enough to warrant Nardil therapy. I havent really seen a great number of reports about Wellbutrin, actually.
And how about the diet..
No issue with me. If you eat out a lot you might have to be somewhat careful...but I never had a prob...except once when I ate a burger from a corner shop.
Really, I don't notice it. I eat what I want except cheese. If you eat something wrong it doesn't mean you will definately have a hypertensive crises. You might only get a headache and start to sweat. But don't fool around- get to a doctors. But as I said, the diet is no issue for me.
> /tensor
Good luck and I am happy to ask general or specific questions on this life-saving drug.Ace...
Posted by crazychickuk on November 27, 2003, at 7:23:28
In reply to Re: A question for ACE ????????, posted by crazychickuk on November 27, 2003, at 7:09:12
Can you give me some more info on nardil plse? i am in the uk and have had a bad time with ssri's, tcs's snri's? all raised my bp.... will nardil be safer for me? i am currently on remeron 30mg and i feel it has just pooped out, and doctor won't raise the dose..
i suffer from:
Depression
severe anxiety
severe social phobia
obsession's (thoughts)
dp and ds
foggy head whish i suppose is dp and dsand i am going out of my mind as fear i am loosing it...
Thankyou
also did you loose weight gain weight? i have put on loads of weight within the 5 mnths i been on remeron... i have put on 2 dress sizes..
Posted by tensor on November 27, 2003, at 13:28:45
In reply to Re: A question for ACE » tensor, posted by ace on November 26, 2003, at 20:03:46
Thanks for your input, i really appreciate it!
Btw, what do you think about aurorix, anything you've tried?
/tensor
Posted by ace on November 27, 2003, at 16:16:07
In reply to Re: A question for ACE ????????, posted by crazychickuk on November 27, 2003, at 7:23:28
> Can you give me some more info on nardil plse? i am in the uk
You are in the UK- that's a good start cause I believe you will be able to get the old, great, Nardil.
and have had a bad time with ssri's, tcs's snri's? all raised my bp.... will nardil be safer for me?
Maybe, maybe not. It has no effect on my BP.
i am currently on remeron 30mg and i feel it has just pooped out, and doctor won't raise the dose..
> i suffer from:
> Depression
> severe anxiety
> severe social phobia
> obsession's (thoughts)
> dp and ds
> foggy head whish i suppose is dp and ds
>
> and i am going out of my mind as fear i am loosing it...You sound like another prime candidate for Nardil. You say you suffer derealiaztion and depersonalization- I did myself. I also had extreme phobic anxiety. Somedays it took me 2 hours to walk a 5 minute distance. I used to be frightened and always ready to run home and drug myself to sleep. Well, Nardil has done an amazing job- wiped out this constant fear by about 90-95%. I cannot praise it enough. I also have severe OCD- Nardil helps with this too- but I will augment for this soon. With depression Nardil is great- it erased my depression 99%. Same with social phobia- on Nardil you are confident and have great self-esteem.
Nardil is the ultimate for anxiety and depression.
>
> Thankyou
>
>
>
>
>
>
> also did you loose weight gain weight?I gained weight and have a sweet tooth now. That's OK but! I'm not that fat or anything.
i have put on loads of weight within the 5 mnths i been on remeron... i have put on 2 dress sizes..
With Nardil you might gain weight but I think the drug justifies it. I have never heard of someone becoming obese with Nardil. usually you might put on a few extra pounds. It's not like Zyprexa or anything.
I'd say start Nardil, give it time, and watch as anxiety and depression floats away...
Ace.
Posted by ace on November 27, 2003, at 16:18:33
In reply to Re: A question for ACE » ace, posted by tensor on November 27, 2003, at 13:28:45
> Thanks for your input, i really appreciate it!
Not a problem! I just hope things get better for you.
>
> Btw, what do you think about aurorix,Havent tried it but have researched it quite a bit. From my research I believe that, although some get great benefit of it, it is not as effective as Nardil I also notice quit a lot of people have to keep raising the dose to sustain therapeutic effects. That being said, I have seen some good/very good responses on it.
anything you've tried?
>
> /tensorAce.
Posted by maxime on November 27, 2003, at 17:50:27
In reply to Re: A question for ACE » tensor, posted by ace on November 27, 2003, at 16:18:33
Ace - what is the NEW Nardil and what is the OLD and what is the difference. How does one know what one is getting? I live in Canada and I am asking on behalf of a friend (I am on Parnate).
Maxime
Posted by ace on November 28, 2003, at 2:52:09
In reply to Re: A question for ACE, posted by maxime on November 27, 2003, at 17:50:27
> Ace - what is the NEW Nardil and what is the OLD and what is the difference. How does one know what one is getting? I live in Canada and I am asking on behalf of a friend (I am on Parnate).
>
> MaximeHi Maxime!,
First of ball, I hope the Parnate is working well- it can be a great drug for some.
With regards to the new and old Nardil- the new Nardil actually has a different chemical structure- I can't remember the specifics but will be investigating soon. Bottom line but- It's a different compound.
The old Nardil is much more orange in colour...the newer is greyish orange. If your friend is getting it from Canada I would say it is the new version.
I believe in time the old Nardil will come back....people just have to persist with the FDA and Pfizer.
It's bad that this has happened- I am so fortunate to have the old Nardil in Australia, but I feel very much sorry for my fellow Nardil users who have relapsed on this new version.
Good luck to you and your friend,And I urge your friend to direct complaints to FDA officials and Pfizer- see Tepiaca's post above.
Ace...
Posted by temoigneur on November 28, 2003, at 19:49:59
In reply to Re: A question for ACE » tensor, posted by ace on November 26, 2003, at 20:03:46
Hi Andrew, how's it going, I was wondering if you've found anything effective for your OCD that can be taken with nardil. I'm on nardil and it definately kills my SP,GAD& PD, but does nothing for my crippling OCD. For that my Pdoc has me on 7.5 mg zyprexa - to be honest this combination is about as good as anything I've been on except for a dramatic four month period when i first started prozac and felt wonderful - I loved school/socializing... However, the zyprexa leaves me sedated and dull. I wish so much there was something that could discriminately block the overactive dopamine receptors contributing to OCD without knocking me out, if dopamine is implicated as it it seems. When Aripiprazole first came out I was interested in it as it purpotedly regulates one/some dopamine receptors by individually tuning itself to one/some of the individual's dopamine receptors, stimulating it where necessary blocking it where appropriate. But many people on here report it not to help with anxiety, plus I'm Canadian and it's not available up here. Anyways I've kind of gone on, but if you've come across anything that has helped with your OCD that can be taken with nardil, that doesn't cause intolerable side effects, I'd be so grateful to hear about it
Ben
Posted by Maxime on November 28, 2003, at 20:57:52
In reply to Re: A question for ACE » maxime, posted by ace on November 28, 2003, at 2:52:09
Thanks Ace!
Yes, the Parnate is working for me very well.
Maxime
Posted by ace on November 30, 2003, at 22:52:25
In reply to Re: A question for ACE » ace, posted by temoigneur on November 28, 2003, at 19:49:59
> Hi Andrew, how's it going,
Good ben- how are you mate?
I was wondering if you've found anything effective for your OCD that can be taken with nardil.Just started Amisulpride- I have good feelings about this. I should say that Nardil helps my OCD too, but not enough.
I'm on nardil and it definately kills my SP,GAD& PD, but does nothing for my crippling OCD.I'm so glad that Nardil helps with those problems- what dose are you on Ben?
For that my Pdoc has me on 7.5 mg zyprexa - to be honest this combination is about as good as anything I've been on except for a dramatic four month period when i first started prozac and felt wonderful - I loved school/socializing... However, the zyprexa leaves me sedated and dull.Zyprexa 2.5mg killed a part of my ocd- absolutely killed. But when I went higher than 2.5 it made my ocd worse!!
I wish so much there was something that could discriminately block the overactive dopamine receptors contributing to OCD without knocking me out, if dopamine is implicated as it it seems.Maybe you could give Amisulpride a try too- only minimal sedation so far.
When Aripiprazole first came out I was interested in it as it purpotedly regulates one/some dopamine receptors by individually tuning itself to one/some of the individual's dopamine receptors, stimulating it where necessary blocking it where appropriate. But many people on here report it not to help with anxiety, plus I'm Canadian and it's not available up here. Anyways I've kind of gone on, but if you've come across anything that has helped with your OCD that can be taken with nardil, that doesn't cause intolerable side effects, I'd be so grateful to hear about it
>
> BenBen- what about Clonidine? or Pindolol? or Lithium? Your OCD may be caused due to sluggish serotonergic transmission- Lithium and Pindolol would be great. Maybe, reboxetine- if its low Noradrenaline the prob- be careful combining with Nardil but.
But you sound better than before which is great. Hows life going anyway- you back at school, got a job?
Take Care Ben- you are a good dude!
Ace.
Nardil- 90
Amisulpride- 50
Posted by temoigneur on December 3, 2003, at 1:40:33
In reply to Re: For Temo! » temoigneur, posted by ace on November 30, 2003, at 22:52:25
> > Hi Andrew, how are you, I feel bad always asking you questions, I'm always taking - thank you so much for reviewing my posts and giving such thoughtful suggestions, what you suggested at the end of the last post caught my attention.
>
> I'm on nardil and it definately kills my SP,GAD& PD, but does nothing for my crippling OCD.
>
> I'm so glad that Nardil helps with those problems- what dose are you on Ben?
>
On a relatively low dose of nardil, 30mg, I tried going up to ninety and brought on heavy>
depression.
>For my OCD my Pdoc has me on 7.5 mg zyprexa - to be honest this combination is about as good as anything I've been on except for a dramatic four month period when i first started prozac and felt wonderful - I loved school/socializing... However, the zyprexa leaves me sedated and dull.
>
> Zyprexa 2.5mg killed a part of my ocd- absolutely killed. But when I went higher than 2.5 it made my ocd worse!!
>
> Ouch, and you say it only killed part of your OCD, at any rate, If you respond to zyprexa like I have you haven't missed anything but feeling like you take a daily injection of concrete, but I'm sorry it made your OCD worse
>I wish so much there was something that could discriminately block the overactive dopamine receptors contributing to OCD without knocking me out, if dopamine is implicated as it it seems.
>
> Maybe you could give Amisulpride a try too- only minimal sedation so far.
>
> Ben- what about Clonidine? or Pindolol? or Lithium? Your OCD may be caused due to sluggish serotonergic transmission- Lithium and Pindolol would be great. Maybe, reboxetine- if its low Noradrenaline the prob- be careful combining with Nardil but.Sluggish Neurotransmission definately "feels" like part of the problem. In fact even when I was on this higher dose of zyprexa, there was one day where Inositol activated my mind and made me feel like I was at my prime. Sluggish neurotransmission, this may sound far fetched, folk-lore naivete, but in my desperation I went to a Chinese naturopath - who studied part way originally to become a medical doctor, and he told me my body fluids had condensed into a sort of mucus and it was causing poor neurotransmitter transduction.
Do you think lithium + pindolol could ameliorate this, did you mean to take them together? I've taken pindolol alone with nardil and lithium with an SSRI and neither of them helped, but is there some special mechanism by which the combination of the two could help with nardil/OCD? If I was to try this what dose range of the Lithium and Pindolol would seem reasonable, and when do you think a good time in the day would be to take them?
Unfortunately we don't have amisulpride in Canada.
I am getting a new doctor - an anxiety specialist on the 11th, so desperately hoping for insight there. BTW I happen to have Pindolol and Valproic acid, VA couldn't be substituted for lithium?, (shot in the dark)
>
> But you sound better than before which is great. Hows life going anyway- you back at school, got a job?I'm really hoping to be able to be in prime condition to go back to school in January, right now I'm just taking one course localy that I already took at the provincial university, as my
> mind just can't absorb much of anything on zyprexa, but I'm not in pain like I was beforeThank you so much ACE, I really appreciate your input.
Ben
Posted by ace on December 7, 2003, at 22:42:15
In reply to ACE, breakthrough with Pindolol + Lithium? ?ace, posted by temoigneur on December 3, 2003, at 1:40:33
>
> Sluggish Neurotransmission definately "feels" like part of the problem. In fact even when I was on this higher dose of zyprexa, there was one day where Inositol activated my mind and made me feel like I was at my prime. Sluggish neurotransmission, this may sound far fetched, folk-lore naivete, but in my desperation I went to a Chinese naturopath - who studied part way originally to become a medical doctor, and he told me my body fluids had condensed into a sort of mucus and it was causing poor neurotransmitter transduction.I'm not to sold on that idea!
> Do you think lithium + pindolol could ameliorate this, did you mean to take them together?
I meant seperately. I think lithium will really solve the problem if it's sluggish serotonin we are talking about.
I've taken pindolol alone with nardil and lithium with an SSRI and neither of them helped, but is there some special mechanism by which the combination of the two could help with nardil/OCD?Maybe. Not sure. Give it a try.
If I was to try this what dose range of the Lithium and Pindolol would seem reasonable, and when do you think a good time in the day would be to take them?I would go for 400mg Lithium and 7.5mg Pindolol.
Take Litium as a single dose in the morning and split Pindolol into 3 seperate doses.> Unfortunately we don't have amisulpride in Canada.
>
> I am getting a new doctor - an anxiety specialist on the 11th, so desperately hoping for insight there.Good luck man!
BTW I happen to have Pindolol and Valproic acid, VA couldn't be substituted for lithium?, (shot in the dark)
You could try but I think not.
> > But you sound better than before which is great. Hows life going anyway- you back at school, got a job?
>
> I'm really hoping to be able to be in prime condition to go back to school in January, right now I'm just taking one course localy that I already took at the provincial university, as my
> > mind just can't absorb much of anything on zyprexa, but I'm not in pain like I was before
>
> Thank you so much ACE, I really appreciate your input.
>
> Ben
>
>
>Ben, one thing I noticed. You said whenever you try to raise your Nardil to 90mg you get depressed. I believe this is due to the Zyprexa. When Zyprexa was at a high dose with me I got a bad depression with Nardil.
I believe 2.5mg with Nardil is max. They seem to work against each other at higher doses.
I think you are missing out on what nardil can truly do for your depression and anxiety and even OCD at a high dose because of this stupid Zyprexa.
I would considering dropping it right down and raising Nardil.
Take care my buddy from Canada!!!
Ace.
This is the end of the thread.
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