![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 72. Go back in thread:
Posted by JaneST on August 16, 2000, at 12:18:42
In reply to This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by toddfromphoenix on August 16, 2000, at 2:50:08
> Though many send kind words, I can do nothing but say I totally disagree with our television audience.
>
> I must tell you all that I had a real fun evening last night. You see, I was discontinuing Effexor XR because of side effects as prescribed by my "god-like" psych doctor. I have been in a start up mode with start kit of Serzone. I upped my dosage to 100mg twice a day 5 days ago. Horrible side effects. Extreme dizziness, pupils the size of pin heads, inability to concentrate. And my all time favorite.... Irritability.
>
> Yesterday, being Monday, I called God and told him about my problem and that I thought this was becoming pretty serious. "No problem," said God, "we'll just cut your morning dose in half and keep your night dose the same". "But God, I am a mess, my chest pounds, the dizziness, the pupils, the inability to concentrate." "Trust me", said God.
>
> It was really enjoyable to spend 4 1/2 hours at the emergency room last night. I am in such a habit of doing so. I'm a regular there, why just 5 years ago, I came in the most recent time because of kidney stones..... Funny, the ER doc says discontinue the medicine, the pharmacist says to discontinue the medicine. But God, almighty says no, "trust me".
>
> This morning I called to talk with God. Of course since I wasn't there in person to be a billable hour for him, God was rushed and didn't have time for me. When he finally did manage, God apparently was able to see me through the telephone because God didn't ask how I felt or if I was better. No, God did some major backpedaling. He didn't know about the FDA approval study where 16% of patients in the trial, about 70 of 5340 quit because of SIDE EFFECT issues, but more importantly God said he knew better since he had in house clinical experience with the medication with patients. Wow, he truly is God.
>
> I informed God during at the end of our little conversation he allowed me to have with him that his services would no longer be needed. You see, I shopped and found another, let's just call him Jesus Christ or JC for short. I see JC tomorrow and look with great anticipation for him to peer into his crystal ball and find the magic pill(s) for me to take. My only regret is that God said he knows and has worked with JC. What a bummer. God truly does work in mysterious ways.
>
> Hey Dr. Bob, you must know God, he swears his way is the way of the future for psychiatry. With a future this bright, I will bring my own flashlight.
Todd:With personal experience in the ways of trials and errors and side effects...and with your current horrible experience seemingly behind you, have you ever shown your flashlight into the areas of writing for a living???
Sorry you had to go through this, but I thoroughly enjoyed reading about it.
Just to let you know...
Jane
Posted by TomV on August 16, 2000, at 15:29:24
In reply to This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by toddfromphoenix on August 16, 2000, at 2:50:08
> Though many send kind words, I can do nothing but say I totally disagree with our television audience.
>
> I must tell you all that I had a real fun evening last night. You see, I was discontinuing Effexor XR because of side effects as prescribed by my "god-like" psych doctor. I have been in a start up mode with start kit of Serzone. I upped my dosage to 100mg twice a day 5 days ago. Horrible side effects. Extreme dizziness, pupils the size of pin heads, inability to concentrate. And my all time favorite.... Irritability.
>
> Yesterday, being Monday, I called God and told him about my problem and that I thought this was becoming pretty serious. "No problem," said God, "we'll just cut your morning dose in half and keep your night dose the same". "But God, I am a mess, my chest pounds, the dizziness, the pupils, the inability to concentrate." "Trust me", said God.
>
> It was really enjoyable to spend 4 1/2 hours at the emergency room last night. I am in such a habit of doing so. I'm a regular there, why just 5 years ago, I came in the most recent time because of kidney stones..... Funny, the ER doc says discontinue the medicine, the pharmacist says to discontinue the medicine. But God, almighty says no, "trust me".
>
> This morning I called to talk with God. Of course since I wasn't there in person to be a billable hour for him, God was rushed and didn't have time for me. When he finally did manage, God apparently was able to see me through the telephone because God didn't ask how I felt or if I was better. No, God did some major backpedaling. He didn't know about the FDA approval study where 16% of patients in the trial, about 70 of 5340 quit because of SIDE EFFECT issues, but more importantly God said he knew better since he had in house clinical experience with the medication with patients. Wow, he truly is God.
>
> I informed God during at the end of our little conversation he allowed me to have with him that his services would no longer be needed. You see, I shopped and found another, let's just call him Jesus Christ or JC for short. I see JC tomorrow and look with great anticipation for him to peer into his crystal ball and find the magic pill(s) for me to take. My only regret is that God said he knows and has worked with JC. What a bummer. God truly does work in mysterious ways.
>
> Hey Dr. Bob, you must know God, he swears his way is the way of the future for psychiatry. With a future this bright, I will bring my own flashlight.Todd,
I know you are seriously suffering right now, but I want you to know that your posting was so funny I laughed out really loud more than a few times! Let's just say that you relieved my suffering for a few minutes, anyway.
Keep the posts coming. I know exactly how you feel. I've been given the "oh, that doesn't happen with Prozac" etc. mantra from a few PDocs. I just couldn't summarize how I felt on those phone calls until you posted your satire. You summarized it all succinctly.
Here's hoping you find your true self.
TomV
Posted by tdaneen on August 16, 2000, at 15:39:33
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks! » toddfromphoenix, posted by JaneST on August 16, 2000, at 12:18:42
You are right Todd, it DOES suck! But you know, I do so enjoy your dark humor, but think I can imagine a wry gleem in your eyes.
Don't let that go out. You have a gift to share - You have insight and a brilliant way to deliver it. I wish it wasn't so rough for you.
...Maybe good 'ole JC has a posse that hangs out once a week or so looking for another "believer" ;-)
Just kidding!
Wishing you the best, calm thoughts (easy side effects)
tdaneen
Posted by toddfromPhoenix on August 16, 2000, at 21:48:18
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its best!, posted by TomV on August 16, 2000, at 15:29:24
Now, I don't want to get off on a rant....but
I sat down with Jesus Christ today (for simplicity sake, let's stick to 'JC'). Most of you Christians will be shocked. He doesn't look like what I had pictured in the Bible. Nope, JC is Indian. Going to require some serious editing of the Bible and will most likely drive Pat Robertson over the edge.
JC appeared actually to have at least a human in his lineage. If I were to describe him in water temperature terms, I would say "above freezing". A stretch from God who had all the personality and warmth as the Ice Planet Hoth. That withstanding, he asked me the general questions and seemed concerned, which is a nice change from God (Oops, I wrote that, God will probably know since he can read my mind). Oh well, I'm screwed : (.
What can I say, JC decided that it was best for me to jump into a new mix of medication. This time, I am thrusting knee deep into a Paxil/Klonopin cocktail. Joy! Just what I wanted. A mixture of medicine to cloud my life. Wonderful. He also informed me that my pinhole sized eyes, which have been with me since my last dose 3 days ago, might return. Super dee duper!! I love it. We're going for the gold here. I can't wait to quit this shit next.
JC seemed to be a bit concerned about my recent "best friend" and the newness of my recent failure. I found her in a local store and she truly is a beaut. Guaranteed not to be as much of a failure as the pills have been. My wife will love it when I tell her about it. Don't worry honey, when I blow my brains out, I'll make sure I do it outside so it won't get on the carpet. Such the sensitive and caring hubby.
And so my friends, will he or won't he? Has he finally mustered up the courage or is he gutless again? Tune in next time, same bat time, same bat channel.
Posted by TomV on August 17, 2000, at 8:36:42
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its best!, posted by toddfromPhoenix on August 16, 2000, at 21:48:18
> Now, I don't want to get off on a rant....but
>
> I sat down with Jesus Christ today (for simplicity sake, let's stick to 'JC'). Most of you Christians will be shocked. He doesn't look like what I had pictured in the Bible. Nope, JC is Indian. Going to require some serious editing of the Bible and will most likely drive Pat Robertson over the edge.
>
> JC appeared actually to have at least a human in his lineage. If I were to describe him in water temperature terms, I would say "above freezing". A stretch from God who had all the personality and warmth as the Ice Planet Hoth. That withstanding, he asked me the general questions and seemed concerned, which is a nice change from God (Oops, I wrote that, God will probably know since he can read my mind). Oh well, I'm screwed : (.
>
> What can I say, JC decided that it was best for me to jump into a new mix of medication. This time, I am thrusting knee deep into a Paxil/Klonopin cocktail. Joy! Just what I wanted. A mixture of medicine to cloud my life. Wonderful. He also informed me that my pinhole sized eyes, which have been with me since my last dose 3 days ago, might return. Super dee duper!! I love it. We're going for the gold here. I can't wait to quit this shit next.
>
> JC seemed to be a bit concerned about my recent "best friend" and the newness of my recent failure. I found her in a local store and she truly is a beaut. Guaranteed not to be as much of a failure as the pills have been. My wife will love it when I tell her about it. Don't worry honey, when I blow my brains out, I'll make sure I do it outside so it won't get on the carpet. Such the sensitive and caring hubby.
>
> And so my friends, will he or won't he? Has he finally mustered up the courage or is he gutless again? Tune in next time, same bat time, same bat channel.Todd,
Are you kidding? I hope you are kidding. It can't be that bad, can it? I know your comical side hasn't given up hope yet, has it? Maybe you should scrap the meds for a little while and find a safe place (can't really say where that is, but think back to your childhood, there must be some place that gives you fond memories). Think about that kid as you sit in your safest place. You wouldn't dare hurt that child, would you? Maybe call an old, dear friend to come along. Drastic situations call for drastic measures.
And about your meds. I have a totally cynical view toward medication also. But unlike you, I threw them aside and said " Depression is my companion for the time being", and lived with the pain for a while. Maybe you can ride it out, maybe you can't. But it sounds like something you can handle or cope with instead of these #$%@$# meds you can't really stand to take. (By the way, I still held on to my xanax when I dropped other meds; at least it "numbed" the pain).
Stick around for the last scene of your life. The finale usually is the best part.
TomV
Posted by tdaneen on August 17, 2000, at 10:31:10
In reply to This #@*$@ sucks!, posted by ToddfromPhoenix on August 14, 2000, at 21:59:03
Todd, I just went back to the first time you posted. It was a calm well thought well written post, it seems so different from how you are feeling now. You brought up the fact that you had been on Prozac for eight years and that it had worked well for you. You also said that you were tired of relying on the meds and wanted to go med free. Have you thought about going back on Prozac? If it had worked so well for you for all that time?
I feel such anger and bitterness in your posts. Who is that directed towards? I don't believe it is towards yourself. Who is it you are wanting to hurt?
Don't you know, that even though these people have never even seen you, or met you, they DO in fact CARE about you? Many of these folks here have may have been in similar scrapes. Keep posting, keep reaching out, keep LASHING OUT if that is what it takes to keep you here.BTW: I'll bet you've never even walked out on a movie you've paid for, have you? Why start now?
I know I've overstepped what I should say, but you've #$^$ me off, darn it! Please open your eyes. Please reach out to those around you that love you. Please continue to get support and help, Please don't treat hurting yourself like a joke.
Tdaneen
Posted by JaneST on August 17, 2000, at 13:38:15
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its best!, posted by toddfromPhoenix on August 16, 2000, at 21:48:18
> Now, I don't want to get off on a rant....but
>
> I sat down with Jesus Christ today (for simplicity sake, let's stick to 'JC'). Most of you Christians will be shocked. He doesn't look like what I had pictured in the Bible. Nope, JC is Indian. Going to require some serious editing of the Bible and will most likely drive Pat Robertson over the edge.
>
> JC appeared actually to have at least a human in his lineage. If I were to describe him in water temperature terms, I would say "above freezing". A stretch from God who had all the personality and warmth as the Ice Planet Hoth. That withstanding, he asked me the general questions and seemed concerned, which is a nice change from God (Oops, I wrote that, God will probably know since he can read my mind). Oh well, I'm screwed : (.
>
> What can I say, JC decided that it was best for me to jump into a new mix of medication. This time, I am thrusting knee deep into a Paxil/Klonopin cocktail. Joy! Just what I wanted. A mixture of medicine to cloud my life. Wonderful. He also informed me that my pinhole sized eyes, which have been with me since my last dose 3 days ago, might return. Super dee duper!! I love it. We're going for the gold here. I can't wait to quit this shit next.
>
> JC seemed to be a bit concerned about my recent "best friend" and the newness of my recent failure. I found her in a local store and she truly is a beaut. Guaranteed not to be as much of a failure as the pills have been. My wife will love it when I tell her about it. Don't worry honey, when I blow my brains out, I'll make sure I do it outside so it won't get on the carpet. Such the sensitive and caring hubby.
>
> And so my friends, will he or won't he? Has he finally mustered up the courage or is he gutless again? Tune in next time, same bat time, same bat channel.
Todd:What, and give up your new career as a writer??? You've gone too far with this one, bud, and it's just not funny. Don't you dare leave us hanging...I want to hear all of those unfinished chapters....
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I've been through this enough to know that it doesn't have to be this way...but in my view, tired though we may be, it takes a lot more courage to take one more step on the road to recovery than to just end it all...which is really one of the most selfish acts in the world, all good-hubby-considerations aside. You didn't mention (or I just don't know...do you have children???)
How dare you leave us to fight this all by ourselves. You've helped me in prior posts more than you know.
Let us hear from you! It matters/YOU matter...and I'm tuned in and waiting.........
Love,
Jane
Posted by toddfromPhoenix on August 17, 2000, at 16:25:18
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its worst! » toddfromPhoenix, posted by JaneST on August 17, 2000, at 13:38:15
Pooof! Let's just call this a cliff hanger... I suppose if I continue to post that means I am still here or have taken the role of Casper on a permanent basis.
Tension is just killing me. Just like guessing who the last Survivor will be (even though I have never seen the show).
Later
Posted by JaneST on August 17, 2000, at 16:39:19
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its worst!, posted by toddfromPhoenix on August 17, 2000, at 16:25:18
> Pooof! Let's just call this a cliff hanger... I suppose if I continue to post that means I am still here or have taken the role of Casper on a permanent basis.
>
> Tension is just killing me. Just like guessing who the last Survivor will be (even though I have never seen the show).
>
> LaterTodd:
Ok, but Big Brother is watching....
Best always,
Jane
Posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 9:38:43
In reply to Re: This #@*$@ sucks!...comedy at its worst! » toddfromPhoenix, posted by JaneST on August 17, 2000, at 16:39:19
Hey,
I've been where u are, and i must say, that i still regret that my suicide was tampered with.As far as i'm concerned you have the right to stop the pain in anyway you see fit.
If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. However, the following might be helpful: xxx
This having been said, I truly hope that you find another way of dealing with your pain. My lover and my sister both took their own lives. I know how much pain they were in, and i respect their decision, but i do miss them very much.
all the best to you,
john
Posted by Rainwoman on September 28, 2000, at 14:25:47
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 9:38:43
> Hey,
> I've been where u are, and i must say, that i still regret that my suicide was tampered with.
>
> As far as i'm concerned you have the right to stop the pain in anyway you see fit.
>
> If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. ...
>
> This having been said, I truly hope that you find another way of dealing with your pain. My lover and my sister both took their own lives. I know how much pain they were in, and i respect their decision, but i do miss them very much.
>
> all the best to you,
> johnI agree with both John and Todd. Everybody's pain is different, and who is to say how you should deal with it. I can see how it is alarming to some to discuss your own demise, especially for someone who has never suffered from depression before, let alone major depression. Lucky for those of you, you still have your survival instinct intact. Mine must've ran out of me with all the tears I have cried over the years. I know all too well nowadays what it feels like to have no hope. If you are already dead on the inside, why continue to suffer and consequently have those around you suffer? And before anybody brings up therapy, I have a very kind therapist whom I actually kind of like. He does try to make me feel better. He thinks that I just need to change my thinking. That if I improve my self esteem and recognize that I am talented, smart, witty(not as witty as Todd though), intelligent and have alot to offer, I will be happy. Sorry, but as dear as he is, he could say all those things to me until his tongue fell off. I can't FEEL any of those things. How can you when pain and sadness just consumes you and hurts so much sometimes that it hurts to breathe. I tried thinking his way, but I am so sick and tired of keeping up that farse. People, in my miserable little mind, can't understand what a person feels until you walk a mile in their shoes. Even then, you're just a mile away and you've got some poor bastards' shoes. My favorite thing is when he says, "Now I want you to promise me, you won't do anything to harm yourself, promise??" Okey, dokey doc, cross my heart, hope to die (oops, you already know that part...). The second favorite thing is, you can call me anytime to talk....yeah to your answering machine. I called that answering machine at 4:00am this morning to say I was having a very hard time and was really down (I didn't mention the fact that I had a "good friend" next to me myself. Only I throw up at the sight of blood. I would end up throwing up stuff I ate last week. That could make for a real long and messy ending. I don't have the courage for that, I didn't much care for half of what I ate last week. It's a good thing too, cause, call me demure, but I don't think that leaving a "I'm contemplating a slash and splash party and you're invited" is proper answering machine etiquette regardless of the hour.). I did hear from him at about 2:00 pm today. I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to hear those kind of party plans at 4:00am either. Ah, too many psychos, too little time.
I am supposed to have an appt. with a p-doc next week, but I have done the med treads myself already, and just thinking about being let down again adds a new, not so colorful dimension to my ever present dismay. The only thing I fear, is that wherever you go from here is worse than here, if that could be possible. Another night like last night, and I may not have to wonder.
I have no "safe" place in my childhood. Unless you might consider under the bed. But I lie awake in agony on top of the damn thing, I don't think climbing under it with the dust bunnies is going to bring me any hoorahs. Although it works for my cats.
Anyway, enough of my rambling I just wanted to say I can empathize with what you are saying, and I hope things turn out for the better for everyone than they are for me. And, Todd, I like your dry sense of humor. You probably could write a book. I wouldn't want you to end up a "ghost" writer though! Sorry, poor pun. But, I think if you feel that way and it makes you feel even a little better to post it, I say let it out. I know how you feel.
Rainwoman
Sadness Within
I can fathom reasons to live
but can't feel any of them.
Holding out for a hope
to end this problem.
In my world every day is full of strife,
could I just for once
feel the meaning of my life?
They say I'm talented
but I feel no joy,
it's depression I feel
talent is a decoy.
A face to appear in, a mask of deception
when all there really is,
is the sadness within.
I want to be me, for the hopelessness to cease
for once to feel what everybody sees.
Just a few moments in time,
when I can be at peace. --Rainwoman
Posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 16:34:38
In reply to It's my party and I'll die if I want to. , posted by Rainwoman on September 28, 2000, at 14:25:47
Hi rain woman.
I could not have put it better myself.
you are very eloquent.
I no long try to end my life, but I really hope that the end will come soon.
The sooner I will be done with, the better.
Non-existence is preferable to the than the pain that i go through being alive. Sleep is preferable to deceit.
God! if you're listening, forget it.
I'd like to say I don't mind the pain, and it's all worth it or something,
but I do and it isn't.JOhn
Posted by shar on September 28, 2000, at 17:55:47
In reply to Re: It's my party and I'll die if I want to. , posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 16:34:38
Life and strife should be at odds
Axiomatically right by voice of gods
The loss of hope and pain too great
The drive to death will escalate
Enraged at voices with no understanding
One doesn't escape internal branding
I despise
The reprise
Posted by tjweeks on September 29, 2000, at 14:26:15
In reply to It's my party and I'll die if I want to. , posted by Rainwoman on September 28, 2000, at 14:25:47
> > Hey,
> > I've been where u are, and i must say, that i still regret that my suicide was tampered with.
> >
> > As far as i'm concerned you have the right to stop the pain in anyway you see fit.
> >
> > If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. ...
> >
> > This having been said, I truly hope that you find another way of dealing with your pain. My lover and my sister both took their own lives. I know how much pain they were in, and i respect their decision, but i do miss them very much.
> >
> > all the best to you,
> > john
>
> I agree with both John and Todd. Everybody's pain is different, and who is to say how you should deal with it. I can see how it is alarming to some to discuss your own demise, especially for someone who has never suffered from depression before, let alone major depression. Lucky for those of you, you still have your survival instinct intact. Mine must've ran out of me with all the tears I have cried over the years. I know all too well nowadays what it feels like to have no hope. If you are already dead on the inside, why continue to suffer and consequently have those around you suffer? And before anybody brings up therapy, I have a very kind therapist whom I actually kind of like. He does try to make me feel better. He thinks that I just need to change my thinking. That if I improve my self esteem and recognize that I am talented, smart, witty(not as witty as Todd though), intelligent and have alot to offer, I will be happy. Sorry, but as dear as he is, he could say all those things to me until his tongue fell off. I can't FEEL any of those things. How can you when pain and sadness just consumes you and hurts so much sometimes that it hurts to breathe. I tried thinking his way, but I am so sick and tired of keeping up that farse. People, in my miserable little mind, can't understand what a person feels until you walk a mile in their shoes. Even then, you're just a mile away and you've got some poor bastards' shoes. My favorite thing is when he says, "Now I want you to promise me, you won't do anything to harm yourself, promise??" Okey, dokey doc, cross my heart, hope to die (oops, you already know that part...). The second favorite thing is, you can call me anytime to talk....yeah to your answering machine. I called that answering machine at 4:00am this morning to say I was having a very hard time and was really down (I didn't mention the fact that I had a "good friend" next to me myself. Only I throw up at the sight of blood. I would end up throwing up stuff I ate last week. That could make for a real long and messy ending. I don't have the courage for that, I didn't much care for half of what I ate last week. It's a good thing too, cause, call me demure, but I don't think that leaving a "I'm contemplating a slash and splash party and you're invited" is proper answering machine etiquette regardless of the hour.). I did hear from him at about 2:00 pm today. I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to hear those kind of party plans at 4:00am either. Ah, too many psychos, too little time.
>
> I am supposed to have an appt. with a p-doc next week, but I have done the med treads myself already, and just thinking about being let down again adds a new, not so colorful dimension to my ever present dismay. The only thing I fear, is that wherever you go from here is worse than here, if that could be possible. Another night like last night, and I may not have to wonder.
>
> I have no "safe" place in my childhood. Unless you might consider under the bed. But I lie awake in agony on top of the damn thing, I don't think climbing under it with the dust bunnies is going to bring me any hoorahs. Although it works for my cats.
>
> Anyway, enough of my rambling I just wanted to say I can empathize with what you are saying, and I hope things turn out for the better for everyone than they are for me. And, Todd, I like your dry sense of humor. You probably could write a book. I wouldn't want you to end up a "ghost" writer though! Sorry, poor pun. But, I think if you feel that way and it makes you feel even a little better to post it, I say let it out. I know how you feel.
>
> Rainwoman
>
> Sadness Within
>
> I can fathom reasons to live
> but can't feel any of them.
> Holding out for a hope
> to end this problem.
> In my world every day is full of strife,
> could I just for once
> feel the meaning of my life?
> They say I'm talented
> but I feel no joy,
> it's depression I feel
> talent is a decoy.
> A face to appear in, a mask of deception
> when all there really is,
> is the sadness within.
> I want to be me, for the hopelessness to cease
> for once to feel what everybody sees.
> Just a few moments in time,
> when I can be at peace. --Rainwoman
Rainwoman, I know this sounds like, yeah I know how you feel-------but I do. I was at the point you describe about 18 years ago. I have Chronic OCD and was also blessed with a major depressive episode. I would sleep maybe 30 minutes a night. I coud not force myself to eat anything. I lost from 200 lbs down to 145 over about a four month period. I could absolutely not see the light at the end of the tunnel. I was becoming more and more obssessed with suicide. The Doc had given me a script for Triavil but I had not taken any. One day after work I sat down on my bed in an absolute, never ending feeling of total misery. I picked up my pistol in my night stand and put it up to my head. I don't know why I did not pull the trigger(probably my wife or my new baby daughter), but I put the gun down and decided to try the medication. It was not immediate, but gradually I began to feel better. The point to this is that no matter how hopeless you feel it is, it just isn't. You need to find the proper meds(there are so many). Meds opinions are like assholes--everybody's got one. Triavil worked great for me, it literally saved my life. Since then I have switched to tofranil and Ativan. I have been on these for 17 years and feel good. DONT GIVE UP--once you do something drastic there might be no turning back. What if whatever is on the other side of life is worse. Like how you feel now but with no chance for improvement forever. To all of you out there------when you think you just cant go on, remember that there have been alot of people who have been at least as bad off as you that have made full recoveries and are living happy lives. It really does happen. God Bless You All
Posted by tina on September 29, 2000, at 18:55:16
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 9:38:43
If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. ...
Pullmarine:
I couldn't let this one slide. What kind of advice is that for someone contemplating taking his own life? Do you think you're being funny? Suicide attemps, however hilarious you think they may be, need to be taken seriously, not joked about and certainly not explained in detail on the effectiveness of doing it a certain way. Jesus, who do you think you're amusing? Obviously yourself. Do us all a favour and THINK before you post huh?
The value of a human life is priceless. ANY human life. If you don't place any value on the lives of others, I'm truly sad for you. Helping someone through a rough time, in my opinion, does NOT include planning out THEIR suicide for THEM. God, get a grip and THINK! Pain is real. THe help you offer should be REAL too. It is not a lauging matter.
Posted by Cindy W on September 29, 2000, at 22:48:54
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by tina on September 29, 2000, at 18:55:16
> If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. ...
>
> Pullmarine:
> I couldn't let this one slide. What kind of advice is that for someone contemplating taking his own life? Do you think you're being funny? Suicide attemps, however hilarious you think they may be, need to be taken seriously, not joked about and certainly not explained in detail on the effectiveness of doing it a certain way. Jesus, who do you think you're amusing? Obviously yourself. Do us all a favour and THINK before you post huh?
> The value of a human life is priceless. ANY human life. If you don't place any value on the lives of others, I'm truly sad for you. Helping someone through a rough time, in my opinion, does NOT include planning out THEIR suicide for THEM. God, get a grip and THINK! Pain is real. THe help you offer should be REAL too. It is not a lauging matter.Pullmarine, I agree with Tina. I don't think it is appropriate or kind to post ways to suicide on this board. I'd suspect that everybody here has felt like killing himself/herself at some time; however, suicidal wishes are usually temporary and there are lots and lots of options. Help may be just around the corner!--Cindy W
Posted by pullmarine on September 30, 2000, at 14:45:29
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by Cindy W on September 29, 2000, at 22:48:54
People have the right to take their own lives if they so wish, and this is comming from someone who has worked extensively in suicide prevention). you will notice that i recommeneded that the person try to seek some other means of escaping their pain. This having been said, I've lost two people who took their own lives, and I really do wish they had less violent methods at their disposal. Lastly, the attitude that suicide is not desireable or is to be scorned or avoided is culture specific. there are a number of cultures that respect a person's decision to take their own lives.
about > > If you're really intent on taking your own life, the only sure fire ways are violent. ...
> >
> > Pullmarine:
> > I couldn't let this one slide. What kind of advice is that for someone contemplating taking his own life? Do you think you're being funny? Suicide attemps, however hilarious you think they may be, need to be taken seriously, not joked about and certainly not explained in detail on the effectiveness of doing it a certain way. Jesus, who do you think you're amusing? Obviously yourself. Do us all a favour and THINK before you post huh?
> > The value of a human life is priceless. ANY human life. If you don't place any value on the lives of others, I'm truly sad for you. Helping someone through a rough time, in my opinion, does NOT include planning out THEIR suicide for THEM. God, get a grip and THINK! Pain is real. THe help you offer should be REAL too. It is not a lauging matter.
>
> Pullmarine, I agree with Tina. I don't think it is appropriate or kind to post ways to suicide on this board. I'd suspect that everybody here has felt like killing himself/herself at some time; however, suicidal wishes are usually temporary and there are lots and lots of options. Help may be just around the corner!--Cindy W
Posted by JaneST on September 30, 2000, at 15:42:31
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by pullmarine on September 30, 2000, at 14:45:29
> People have the right to take their own lives if they so wish,
Agreed...and we could talk for hours about euthanasia, Kevorkian, etc., but on a board where so many people may be contemplating this same thing, I do NOT believe it acceptable to discuss METHODS...there are other sites for that...so please go there and exchange this information.
>Lastly, the attitude that suicide is not desireable or is to be scorned or avoided is culture specific. there are a number of cultures that respect a person's decision to take their own lives.Disagree...same reasons as above.
Sincerely,
Jane
Posted by tina on September 30, 2000, at 18:47:02
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by pullmarine on September 30, 2000, at 14:45:29
Lastly, the attitude that suicide is not desireable or is to be scorned or avoided is culture specific. there are a number of cultures that respect a person's decision to take their own lives.
Those cultures practice suicide as a religious ritual of some kind and they have their right to their rituals but here, on a "mutual support board" it is NOT a ritual. It is PAIN being expressed and a plea for HELP. Don't try to justify your own ridiculous rantings by cloaking them in cultural ritualistic practices that do NOT have any bearing on this situation.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 30, 2000, at 19:20:40
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by pullmarine on September 30, 2000, at 14:45:29
> I really do wish they had less violent methods at their disposal.
I understand, but I don't think I can consider it supportive to spell out methods, so I've deleted that section of your post.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 30, 2000, at 19:22:43
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by tina on September 30, 2000, at 18:47:02
> Don't try to justify your own ridiculous rantings...
Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged, but please be civil when expressing them. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by JaneST on September 30, 2000, at 20:17:18
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by Dr. Bob on September 30, 2000, at 19:20:40
> > I really do wish they had less violent methods at their disposal.
>
> I understand, but I don't think I can consider it supportive to spell out methods, so I've deleted that section of your post.
>
> BobThank you, Dr. Bob.
Sincerely,
Jane
Posted by Cindy W on September 30, 2000, at 22:14:24
In reply to Re: it's your right to die » Dr. Bob, posted by JaneST on September 30, 2000, at 20:17:18
> > > I really do wish they had less violent methods at their disposal.
> >
> > I understand, but I don't think I can consider it supportive to spell out methods, so I've deleted that section of your post.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Thank you, Dr. Bob.
>
> Sincerely,
> JaneAlso wanted to thank you, Dr. Bob, for deleting the suicide methods and promoting civility...Cindy W
Posted by Racer on September 30, 2000, at 22:42:55
In reply to Re: it's your right to die, posted by Cindy W on September 30, 2000, at 22:14:24
My father died several years ago, painfully and alone, without ever having done anything at all worth remembering. All he had were failures and misery. You wanna know why I get angry about that? He had opportunities all his life to make that life better. You know what he did about it? NOTHING. Not one damn thing. All he ever did was run away. And he couldn't even say that he didn't hurt anyone. He hurt almost everyone in his life.
I've been miserable. The doctor I was assigned by the county when I was last depressed and uninsured told me that the drugs were just fine, working as expected, but I couldn't expect to feel any relief because I was too screwed up! You think I didn't think about grabbing a gun???
Here's something you're not thinking about: reality. You married your wife because you thought well of her. At least, I imagine you did. Do you have any idea what really happens when someone dies by gunshot? First of all, it's not easy to clean up that sort of mess. Secondly, did you know that it's illegal to do it yourself in many areas? Blood, after all, is hazardous waste! Think of the expenses your wife would incur at a time when she's least able to deal with it. And guess what, she'll have to deal with it. There's no agency to step in and fix things for her. Do you really want her to have to go through the horrors of that just because you ran away? She'll also be facing the pain of you running away from her in such a terrible way.
And you know what else? You not only hurt everyone around you if you do any such thing, but you cheat yourself out of the chance to experience something better. That's like cheating at solitaire. How can anyone respect someone who cheats at solitaire?
Now, I've expressed my anger and hope that someone reminds me of this next time I'm suicidal.
ToddFromPhoenix, I truly hope you find something to relieve your depression. My grandparents used to live on East Monterosa, back in the 60s and 70s, and I remember how much I loved being in Phoenix with them. I used to collect rocks in a park there, and found the best crystals I'd ever seen there. Tiny geods, with quartz crystals as delicate as pixie hair.
Here's hoping that JC helps, and that you find relief. But damn it to hell, don't find relief for yourself by committing your wife to hell!
Posted by SLS on October 1, 2000, at 0:13:18
In reply to Now I'm angry, ToddFromPhoenix, because..., posted by Racer on September 30, 2000, at 22:42:55
I know.
I am always angry when I hear of someone who has ended their own life because they were in so much pain. Mental or physical.
I work very hard to avoid saying "God damn it!" I always say "gosh darn it" as a substitute. I rarely slip. However, when my next door neighbor told me that another neighbor's daughter, who I had met, suffering from major depression killed herself, I was very cognizant and purposeful of my instantaneous reaction, "GOD DAMN IT!" Boy, was I pissed. God damn it. I still am.
> My father died several years ago, painfully and alone,
I'm sorry. I can't imagine such a thing. Both of my parents are still living.
> without ever having done anything at all worth remembering.
Perhaps he did. You're here.
> All he had were failures and misery.
According to whom?
> You wanna know why I get angry about that? He had opportunities all his life to make that life better. You know what he did about it? NOTHING. Not one damn thing. All he ever did was run away. And he couldn't even say that he didn't hurt anyone. He hurt almost everyone in his life.
I have compassion for your father. I know people like him. I want better for them and everyone around them.
> I've been miserable. The doctor I was assigned by the county when I was last depressed and uninsured told me that the drugs were just fine, working as expected, but I couldn't expect to feel any relief because I was too screwed up! You think I didn't think about grabbing a gun???
Did your father commit suicide?
> Here's something you're not thinking about: reality.
Who's?
> You married your wife because you thought well of her. At least, I imagine you did. Do you have any idea what really happens when someone dies by gunshot?
== >
I cannot share your reality of priorities and perceptions of import.
-----------------------------------------------------
> First of all, it's not easy to clean up that sort of mess.
> Secondly, did you know that it's illegal to do it yourself in many areas?
> Blood, after all, is hazardous waste!
> Think of the expenses your wife would incur at a time when she's least able to deal with it.
> And guess what, she'll have to deal with it.
She doesn't have to. But we hope she would.
> There's no agency to step in and fix things for her.
"And guess what, she'll have to deal with it."
There are a plethora of agencies that can help her deal with it.
-----------------------------------------------------
> Do you really want her to have to go through the horrors of that just because you ran away? She'll also be facing the pain of you running away from her in such a terrible way.
People often get over loss. No one gets over extant pain - de facto.
> And you know what else? You not only hurt everyone around you if you do any such thing,
Everyone around him probably would be hurt, however...
I find this to be the most selfish argument proposed against someone's decision to do something that might be in their best interests - or even in their worst interests. "Who's Life is it Anyway?" Who's interests are more important, yours or mine? Who's right is greater to be more interested in himself than others, yours or mine? Who would know better what is best for me, you or me? Possibly you. I have been known to exercise bad judgment when deciding what is best for me. This is especially true when I am depressed or in pain. Of course, suicide is not in everyone's best interests. You and I both know that for sure. However, do either of us know for sure that it is no one's best interest to bring their life to a deliberated endpoint. Why do people put their dogs to sleep? I hope you would exceed to someone's request to be treated no worse than a dog.
Euthanasia? What about autoeuthanasia?
I came up with the word "autoeuthanasia" many years ago in an effort to delineate it from other types of suicide. I will fight for my right to exercise it for as long as I live, whether or not I exercise it.
> but you cheat yourself out of the chance to experience something better.
I know this is a stupid question, but I have to ask it. Are you a fortune teller? Chance is an abstraction in that it is nothing more than conceivable. Opportunity is to be extant. Can you guarantee someone that an opportunity will present itself to them? Can you tell them how long they must endure excruciating pain before it does?
> That's like cheating at solitaire.
You can cheat at solitaire. You can't cheat pain or death. Even morphine can't help many cancer victims cheat their pain.
> How can anyone respect someone who cheats at solitaire?
I can. Sometimes it feels good to cheat at SOLITAIRE. I like to feel good. In this game, it is one's SOLITARY discretion as to if and when. But, after all, it is just a game.
> Now, I've expressed my anger and hope that someone reminds me of this next time I'm suicidal.
Whatever it takes. I will also try other things to help you save your life. Life is precious.
Pain is sometimes transient. Sometimes not.
> Here's hoping that JC helps, and that you find relief. But damn it to hell, don't find relief for yourself by committing your wife to hell!
Whatever it takes.
God bless us all.
- Scott
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