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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2009, at 0:34:36
where did you go?
do you think about me at all?
sometimes?
do you remember me fondly?
or out of sight out of mind
just another patient.you are patient with me, i know.
through my freak outs
non-reponsive at times.
do you think of me at all?
i feel like that a lot when you are not around
but when i see you there you are
and everything is all right again.i imagine you with your baby daughter
though i guess she's not a baby anymore
she's growing up now
i guess she'd be two
i don't feel like i'm that old yet
sometimes
but then she gets more of you than me
and maybe she feels that way too, sometimesi just imagine you cradling her in your arms
cradling me
but i'm too old now, too big
don't know how old kids are when they are at that gangly stage
trying to be cradled but just too big
i remember being that way with my father
scrabbling to get on his knee
falling through the glass windowstill have the scar
eyebrows will always be slightly uneven
but i'm too big now
too big even to touch
it wouldn't be safe
not anymore.
or maybe it would
but i think we both are kind of relived
that we're not going to find out.what are you doing?
are you busy?
what do you do with yourself anyway?
i know you go to church.
i know you spend time with your family.
i don't really know what you do with your work days even
do you miss me?
a little?
or do you kinda wish you never met me
never agreed to work with me
only its too much hassle to dump me nowi get scared sometimes
where are you?
where did you go?????
Posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2009, at 0:49:50
In reply to helllllllllllllooooooooooooo?, posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2009, at 0:34:36
its funny how people cringe from me sometimes.
like when i gave one p-doc this paper i wrote
as a kind of farewell gift
he looked... horrified... that i was trying to give him something
and then... apologetic... once he realized what it was.
or maybe apologetic after seeing my despondancy and numbness
realizing that was not required.i remember our first meeting.
the streets loop round and i'd got myself lost
tried to show you the map so you could tell me which direction to leave in
and same thing again... horrified... i wasn't quite sure what it was
i was standing too close?
i was blocking the door?
realized the futility and backed away...
just lefti think we fight a little over who gets to be closest to the door
i kinda cringe at our meeting ritual.
its kinda awkward and i wish i could fall through the floor.
think it is something about being vulnerable.
arriving. then waiting.
you can't see me too early because then i'd just arrive earlier.
i can't risk being late so i'm going to be early
so its kinda weird.bus arrives 20 minutes before session on friday
8am
nobody else in the clinic yet
they don't start arriving until we are getting near the end
that used to freak me out
(freaked me out first time)
but its okay now
kinda awkward
but okay.
when its really cold i hang round the door a little
waiting for you to arrive
but then its kinda weird when you turn off the security stuff
and just kinda sitting there in the waiting room
hearing you move around what is basically a house
morning rituals
feels slightly obscene somehow
i don't knowmaybe because it is like waiting to go into a bedroom
'cause that is what it is essentially
only its noti project disgust, huh
maybe my biggest fear is that others will see me
how i see me
how i see others
i wish i didn't have all these feelings
i'm sorry
i'm so ashamed.you got me once.
don't know how you did it
i just reached for the door handle
and there you were opening it from the inside
surprise
somehow or other that actually turned out okay
i was too surprised (in a happy way) to feel embarrassed
can't even look at you usually
i'm sorry
i'm so ashamed.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on May 30, 2009, at 12:33:37
In reply to helllllllllllllooooooooooooo?, posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2009, at 0:34:36
> where did you go?
> do you think about me at all?
> sometimes?
> do you remember me fondly?
> or out of sight out of mind
> just another patient.
>
> you are patient with me, i know.
> through my freak outs
> non-reponsive at times.
> do you think of me at all?
> i feel like that a lot when you are not around
> but when i see you there you are
> and everything is all right again.
>
> i imagine you with your baby daughter
> though i guess she's not a baby anymore
> she's growing up now
> i guess she'd be two
> i don't feel like i'm that old yet
> sometimes
> but then she gets more of you than me
> and maybe she feels that way too, sometimes
>
> i just imagine you cradling her in your arms
> cradling me
> but i'm too old now, too big
> don't know how old kids are when they are at that gangly stage
> trying to be cradled but just too big
> i remember being that way with my father
> scrabbling to get on his knee
> falling through the glass window
>
> still have the scar
>
> eyebrows will always be slightly uneven
>
> but i'm too big now
> too big even to touch
> it wouldn't be safe
> not anymore.
> or maybe it would
> but i think we both are kind of relived
> that we're not going to find out.
>
> what are you doing?
> are you busy?
> what do you do with yourself anyway?
> i know you go to church.
> i know you spend time with your family.
> i don't really know what you do with your work days even
> do you miss me?
> a little?
> or do you kinda wish you never met me
> never agreed to work with me
> only its too much hassle to dump me now
>
> i get scared sometimes
>
> where are you?
>
> where did you go?????-----flutterby: Oh wow! this is so heartfelt. and it's as if you are in my life, in my mind! I have such heavy feelings of the T. I used to see.
I think it's wonderfully expressed. Thank you so so much for sharing this-- it's beautiful.mandy
Posted by twinleaf on June 2, 2009, at 19:06:53
In reply to helllllllllllllooooooooooooo?, posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2009, at 0:34:36
This is just beautiful, and very moving.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 3, 2009, at 0:34:24
In reply to Re: helllllllllllllooooooooooooo? » alexandra_k, posted by twinleaf on June 2, 2009, at 19:06:53
thanks guys. he did write back eventually. it was kinda weird. think i'm seeing him monday. yay. but kinda nervous. i think he is going to make me 'work' to get to see him more than once a week. i don't like that. though i guess it is possible that it isn't even a matter of that... maybe he doesn't have a slot. i dunno. weird.
i flew out via JFK. got a nice view of long island flying in. he grew up there apparently. since i don't know anything about the place only thing i have is everybody loves raymond and him. freaky thought that maybe i could see the house he grew up in, even. that he must have flown through the airport. kinda weird. wish he could have shown me around the city. it would have been okay then.
i'm exhausted and slightly delirious, i think.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2009, at 23:27:12
In reply to Re: helllllllllllllooooooooooooo?, posted by alexandra_k on June 3, 2009, at 0:34:24
he forgot about me. he's fired. its not okay. its not okay that i need to think about him in order to get through and he can't even think of me so as to remember to check his schedule and slot me in on my return as he promised before i left. out of sight out of mind. that is not okay. i asked him to refer me on to see someone else. he can't see me. there isn't anything that can put this right. second time: don't make promises you can't keep. i would have been understanding if there was lag of a couple weeks. but couple months? he didn't save me a spot at all. that is not okay. no. goodbye.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2009, at 23:27:52
In reply to Re: helllllllllllllooooooooooooo?, posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2009, at 23:27:12
he could have just said he didn't want to work with me anymore. would have been less hurtful (i think)
Posted by twinleaf on June 8, 2009, at 1:07:52
In reply to Re: helllllllllllllooooooooooooo?, posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2009, at 0:49:50
What on earth happened? It sounded like he'd been a terrific therapist for you; when that happens, I think a vital part of it is that, in addition to his skill, he also likes and respects you. Did he make a mistake about when you were returning, or were you unclear as to when that would be? I gather that he can see you in two months, but not now. Before you decide to lose him completely, wouldn't it be good to make sure it wasn't a fairly minor error which has nothing to do with the good bond that the two of you have?
Posted by alexandra_k on June 8, 2009, at 1:29:35
In reply to Re: helllllllllllllooooooooooooo?, posted by twinleaf on June 8, 2009, at 1:07:52
it is out of sight out of mind with him. this has happened once before. he took 2 months off while his wife had a baby. he said he understood that it was a long time and that we could stay in touch by email. maybe one email exchange a week or something like that. then he didn't reply to me at all until the day before out appointment. i said i wouldn't have gone to the appointment if he hadn't contacted me at all. he seemed surprised. i said he shouldn't make promises he can't keep. it wasn't even defensive about it. but he knows that it is important to me.
he didn't keep in touch during my time away the way that he seemed to think he would. i could live with that. but he did say he would keep a slot open for me. and he didn't. he just seemed to think that it would magically work out okay. he knows how busy he is, surely. just out of sight out of mind. he didn't think to check with his secretary that he actually was keeping a slot open around the time of my return. he didn't think to check and find out that that wasn't the case until the week that i was due back. he didn't even think to tell me that this was the case until i emailed him close to a week after i was back. then he is like 'oh i didn't know my secretary usually deals with my schedule'. out of sight out of mind with him is all. thats the way he is. he can be great in person but when he isn't there in person he is just hopeless. if he can't hold me in mind when i'm not there how am i supposed to learn to do that with him?
he knew for about a month beforehand. and he did nothing. and that isn't okay.
can't put things right because can't even get in to see him. and there it is.
Posted by twinleaf on June 8, 2009, at 2:12:05
In reply to Re: helllllllllllllooooooooooooo?, posted by alexandra_k on June 8, 2009, at 1:29:35
Oh gosh. He sounds way at the extreme of absentmindedness, and, just as you say, not keeping you in mind at all when you are not physically present. Even with this large failing, I think you did get a lot better with him, but maybe it is time for you to find the perfect therapist, who likes you, keeps you in mind intensely when you are there, and to a reasonable extent when you are not, and who will stay with you for the long haul, and believe in your ability to get better- recover, even. Those really do exist- I've got one. You may be in a position now to look around enough to find someone just like that.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 8, 2009, at 2:21:31
In reply to Re: helllllllllllllooooooooooooo?, posted by alexandra_k on June 8, 2009, at 1:29:35
he just doesn't think of me outside of work. i know that. he thinks a lot of his family. he said to me once (when we just started working together) that the only thing that would make him stop seeing me was if he felt his family was in danger. hard to explain the context of that. i felt a bit insulted that he would even mention that. but i guess it shows how important his family is to him. i remember when he told me about taking the two months off. i guess he thought that some kind of explanation would help me understand that when the two months started would be variable. it did help with that. he was really obviously happy about the situation. that was kinda hard.
then i didn't hear back from him. i even sent him an email saying that i was scared that the delivery didn't go well and that that was why i hadn't heard. nothing. until two months later. he was apologetic. about things being more hectic than he had supposed. but the truth was that he was so caught up in that that he didn't even check his email. didn't think of me. didn't check his email. didn't take the time. and that is it, really. his family take priority over all else (as i guess they should) and when i'm not around... well i guess his other clients take priority over me (as i guess they should) and so basically where does that leave me? not really anywhere with him. not really anywhere at all.
i guess the trade-off was that he was pretty good when i was actually there in front of him. aside from that, not so much, but pretty good when i was actually there in front of him. but this mess up... well... i'm not actually going to be in front of him. i can kind of see him squirming over this. knowing he messed up but kind of trying to minimize that and put it right at the same time. i expect he will be surprised at my reaction... i don't suspect he will have learned anything at all about the 'not making promises that you can't keep' thing that we went through last time. it just... really hurts. i'd kept in touch. i'd kept him informed about when i was planning on flying etc etc etc. he was the first person to know really. i appreciated that he might need a number of weeks to sort things out from his end. but basically... he didn't even try and sort things out from his end until I'd arrived already. then surprise (not so surprising really) he is basically booked out for the next month and a half. really that wasn't surprising. i could have told him that and i know nothing about the details of his schedule. i can't believe that that never occurred to him.
i think... he doesn't want to work with me anymore. before i left he said he would keep a slot open for me. that he couldn't keep two open, but he would keep one. then he made a big deal about 'IF you choose to keep seeing me instead of seeing someone else'. a little too much of a big deal about that. then when i told him about when i was planning on flying he said i should let him know if i'd decided to keep working with him. i was like 'of course i have i thought that was the plan all along'. i think... he is trying to dump me off / discourage me from seeing him. pretty sure that is it. there isn't anything he can say or do to change that. he didn't think of me at all. out of sight out of mind. we are through. it is what he wants really. one only needs to look at his behavior.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 8, 2009, at 3:10:57
In reply to Re: helllllllllllllooooooooooooo? » alexandra_k, posted by twinleaf on June 8, 2009, at 2:12:05
Hey. I think we cross posted with the last two. I got scared when I read your post and saw you say about the 'perfect therapist'. Worrying that maybe I was expecting too much of him. But then you said that you had found one.
He... Does everything but bear me in mind when I'm not there. It is obviously hard for him... He has been making an effort. He came around to the idea of email contact. While he isn't particularly verbal with them he does seem to have developed an appreciation that it isn't about my being avoidant so much as my embracing a medium that allows me to explore things (with him) in more depth than I could or would otherwise. He even downloaded Skype and we had a couple of Skype 'interactions' if not sessions while I was away. Not as many as I would have liked (some extra contact after my father died would have been nice - but he said he didn't have the time) and then... He wasn't being paid for those sessions... In some respects he really does seem to have gone out of his way to stay in contact with me (being okay about the emails, giving Skype a go) but in another sense... I really don't feel that he holds me in mind at all.
It is the only problem we have. So hard for me to know how much to make of this. I guess... I guess I have a sneaking suspicion that it will sort itself out. That he will happen to get cancellations and I'll happen to get more or less frequent sessions until we are back to once a week. Even though once a week isn't ideal for me. I don't know. I just feel so very hurt about this. And I do wonder... About how much he thinks of me. About whether subconsciously at least he simply doesn't want to keep working with me. I feel like he has been dissuading me... But then I wondered if that was because he was going to amp the 'you are avoidant' thing and make me really work for an additional session. Now I'm seeing that... If I just fell out of contact with him... How much would he really notice or care?
Sob.
Geez I'm pathetic.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on June 9, 2009, at 15:22:34
In reply to Re: helllllllllllllooooooooooooo?, posted by alexandra_k on June 8, 2009, at 3:10:57
> He... Does everything but bear me in mind when I'm not there.<<
-----flutterby: Sounds like he dropped the ball for you on this one. I'm sorry. Being the youngest of a mixed marriage family and experiencing much neglect-- if I had experienced this- it would hurl me into "flight" mode. Being forgotten - means danger and NOT safe-- from my background.
This leads me to ponder if your T. realizes how important it was to you that he left a space open. Sometimes we think they know us very well-- but maybe they don't realize as much as we think they do. It does sound like he's been making other efforts to help you. Maybe scheduling is not a strong characteristic of his.> It is the only problem we have. So hard for me to know how much to make of this.<<
---flutterby: yes, it is hard. I struggle with such things too.
>> I guess... I guess I have a sneaking suspicion that it will sort itself out. That he will happen to get cancellations and I'll happen to get more or less frequent sessions until we are back to once a week. Even though once a week isn't ideal for me. I don't know.<<
---flutterby: It could very well work out like that.
>> I just feel so very hurt about this. And I do wonder... About how much he thinks of me. About whether subconsciously at least he simply doesn't want to keep working with me. I feel like he has been dissuading me... But then I wondered if that was because he was going to amp the 'you are avoidant' thing and make me really work for an additional session. Now I'm seeing that... If I just fell out of contact with him... How much would he really notice or care?
>
> Sob.
>
> Geez I'm pathetic.<<----flutterby: No, I don't think you're pathetic. I think you are fragile-- if you don't mind me saying so. A fragile soul needs compassion and understanding. The thing that would help me to decide to go back or not would be if I was apologized to. I had a T. drop the ball and he never apologized-- things just got more strained after that, until I quit with him. maybe I'm too fragile-- but-- I have to stay safe. My new T. now is awesome and she has never dropped the ball, apologizes when needed and we don't even correspond outside of sessions-- odd-- I've never felt safer... ever!
I hope things work out for you, whatever ends up-- you are in my thoughts. Life can be such an uphill climb.......
flutterby-mandy
Posted by alexandra_k on June 11, 2009, at 1:57:50
In reply to Re: helllllllllllllooooooooooooo? » alexandra_k, posted by fleeting flutterby on June 9, 2009, at 15:22:34
i'm not going to go back. there isn't any point. he doesn't have time for me. even if i waited a couple months it would still only be once a week and i know from experience (with him) that that results in once every second week often enough with people getting sick and going to conference and holidays and so on and so forth.
i asked him for a referral but i think he is in denial that i'm actually serious. i emailed someone today. have been doing phone book / internet trawls to try and find likely candidates... think i need to see a p-doc because of funding issues (medicare seems to fund p-doc visits a lot more frequently than they will fund 'psychotherapy' or 'counseling' with anyone who isn't able to bill it as a doctors visit). still need a bit of leeway on the co-payment, but feasible with a p-doc and medicare and not really feasible otherwise. think there is still a shortage of doctors here so might take a while to find someone... suppose i should wait to hear back until i send out another because it is a small world and the person might feel miffed if they try and refer me to someone who i've emailed already...
that procedure ended up working quite well for me in the US, anyway, so we will see how it goes. think people feel flattered that i 'chose them' to email and that i did a bit of legwork to find their email address (which typically isn't intended for public / future client consumption). anyway... we will see... feeling... dropped right now. the weather is cold. and so was my t. and so... am i. numb and cold and i just want to curl up and die.
This is the end of the thread.
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