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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ClearSkies on August 22, 2005, at 19:51:02
Where to start.
How many slips, how many reminders does it take before sobriety "takes"? I can replay the worst drunk of my life in my head right up to and including the fall out of the bar door and the landing point made by my face. I remember looking for my front teeth with my hands on the icy pavement, laughing hysterically, saying that all the gritty rocks looked like like my teeth. I felt no pain at the time, had no blackout. It is a slow-motion memory that I dream of now and then, when anxiety is high, my front teeth flapping like curtains in an open window. That was my lowest point, and it was years ago.Yet that memory, as vivid as it still is, hasn't been enough to stop me from slipping now and then, and THAT's what stumps me. Because now that I'm on meds, I do black out if I drink, and it doesn't take much. Which makes it scarier, but it hasn't stopped me. Going to AA meetings doesn't inspire or stop me - in fact I find them extremely triggering. I can't tell you how many different meetings, locations, times I have tried, thinking, "it must be me. This is helping everyone else, and I want to run to a liquor store as soon as I get out of here."
I joined a women-only support group, the closest thing to a really good place for me; but the moderator is a really bossy person, sees life in black-and-white, and I see life not only in shades of grey, but in colour, get me? She basically talks about herself for more than half the weekly meeting, then we skim through the rest of the group and we always overrun the time each week. It sucks the very marrow out of me, I have no sponsor, I am still a freakazoid. Also, if you slip and are not actively sober, you're not supposed to go to the meetings (that's what I mean by black and white). There is only 1 other meeting in the entire state, and it is 4 hours away.
So, my continuing whine is this: I already isolate myself because I'm not working. I get extremely anxious in social situations (that I used to self medicate with alcohol), so I have *no* friends IRL who are close by, just my few very special babble friends with whom I've been lucky enough to form close bonds. Unfortunately, these friends live far away. I do get out of the house to work out at the gym, but have not formed any friendships there. I plan to volunteer eventually but I know this is going to take some time for me to work up to.
Where do I go for the support that I am screaming in pain for? What do I do when I am so lonely that I want to get that oblivion, regardless of the depression I know will follow for the next three to seven days? What can keep me clean when these organizations that are supposed to be so helpful cause me such distress? I am writing these questions not really expecting answers. I think I have read just about every book on the subject out there. I am not in denial, I am not saying I don't have a problem - what I'm saying is that I can't find something that works for me, and it hurts.
Posted by ClearSkies on August 23, 2005, at 12:51:07
In reply to Keeping clean, posted by ClearSkies on August 22, 2005, at 19:51:02
It's that sound of the tree falling in the forest with no one to hear it.
And a realization that building self esteem is SO much a part of my recovery. I hope that Dr Bob decides the new board is worthy of space here on Babble, because very selfishly, I know that it would help me a lot.
In doing some more reading and research, I've also decided to stop beating myself up over AA not being the solution for me. Woo-hoo!! There are plenty of reasons for this, and I won't go into them here mostly because I truly don't want to offend anyone for whom the programme works. Let's just say that I've given it many opportunities - different places, times, locations, etc. and for me, it's not what will work.
So I'm back to my original plan; to find my own path. What I've thought about and digested is that there isn't anything wrong with me in not fitting into existing programmes. I'm not stupid, I'm not a loser, I am ClearSkies, and I will find my path. Somehow.
Posted by antigua on August 23, 2005, at 14:57:21
In reply to A resounding thud., posted by ClearSkies on August 23, 2005, at 12:51:07
Oh, I wish we could help each other, because like you, I'm forging my own path too, and it's not fun. I don't like isolating, but sometimes it's all I can do to make sure I don't drink. But it's lonely. I'm going on vacation next week and I just don't want to fight the battle. I know I can't drink, but it doesn't stop me from wanting to, or doing so occasionally.
best,
antigua
Posted by Declan on August 23, 2005, at 15:11:22
In reply to A resounding thud., posted by ClearSkies on August 23, 2005, at 12:51:07
Hi there Clearskies
You can follow your own path and if you can you will feel better for it. I've never been able to do those things (NA). Ultimately I'd just rather sort it out myself. I feel to edgy for them. And then you've got the group dynamics. Some people are just loners, I mean not always but...
Declan
Posted by AuntieMel on August 24, 2005, at 10:35:43
In reply to A resounding thud., posted by ClearSkies on August 23, 2005, at 12:51:07
Ok, so AA isn't for you. It does work for a lot of people, but if it doesn't work for you then it doesn't. You gave it one heck of a try, though. You should feel good about that!
Sponsor? I think that's one of the best things about AA - having someone to call when you're wanting to drink, or just need to talk. But you do have your babble friends - and some of our phone numbers - and we're really on your side. So if you are wanting to try sponsorship you could call any one of us.
The trick is remembering to do it *before* you drink.
One thing AA sponsors do is make you call every day, even if it's just to say "I'm doing good today." The point is to get you in the habit so when the urge *does* hit you won't be shy about picking up the phone. One guy I know that is a sponsor gets his people to call him every day *plus* call at least one other person working on sobriety. It doesn't have to be the same person, and it could be only 'tag, you're it' and hang up. The idea is to build a network so if the sponsor isn't available.....
Plenty of babble friends to choose from, you know.
Posted by ClearSkies on August 24, 2005, at 11:50:47
In reply to Re: finding a fallback plan » ClearSkies, posted by AuntieMel on August 24, 2005, at 10:35:43
*g*
I worked up the courage to contact (via email, naturally) someone from the women's support group and we are meeting, in person, for coffee tomorrow. An act of enormous courage on my part, LOL.You'd think with all the prodigious posting that I do here that picking up a phone and talking with a sponsor would be easy for me; but at this point the very thought of it makes my eyes prickle with tears again. It's difficult to describe the fragility I feel right now. Maybe like dewdrops on a spider web? The web itself is strong underneath, but the drops are what I present to the outside world, and one little shake and they all fall down.
Hmmm.
Posted by ClearSkies on August 25, 2005, at 15:05:20
In reply to Re: finding a fallback plan » AuntieMel, posted by ClearSkies on August 24, 2005, at 11:50:47
I called, I was called back. THANK YOU!!!!
I met with my friend, we had coffee, I cried (of course), talked, felt better.
Hours to fill and finding ways to fill them.
Creating new habits that are light years away from old habits, man this is hard.
Convincing myself that I can do it. Choo choo.
That I'm worth it. That is not as easy.
I'm trying. Today the plan is working.
Posted by ClearSkies on August 28, 2005, at 8:14:24
In reply to The plan worked, posted by ClearSkies on August 25, 2005, at 15:05:20
I slept 12 hours last night. Saturday nights are difficult, but I made it through with a couple of chocolate chip cookies and a scary book to read.
Having someone to check in with every day is helping hugely - thank you so much!!!
CS
Posted by rainbowbrite on August 30, 2005, at 2:30:05
In reply to One week clean, posted by ClearSkies on August 28, 2005, at 8:14:24
Thats great ClearSkies! :-)
Posted by gardenergirl on September 1, 2005, at 0:31:21
In reply to One week clean, posted by ClearSkies on August 28, 2005, at 8:14:24
Posted by john berk on September 2, 2005, at 20:15:13
In reply to The plan worked, posted by ClearSkies on August 25, 2005, at 15:05:20
that is great clearskies
a plan is a must when you are dealing with this insidious disease, i've had 15 years of hell, {2 month's sober on tuesday], im rooting for you all the way, goodluck...john
Posted by ClearSkies on September 2, 2005, at 20:40:07
In reply to Re: The plan worked » ClearSkies, posted by john berk on September 2, 2005, at 20:15:13
I'm still a sobriety baby, but feel more optimism than I have during past experiences with The Beast.
I have quite the cheering section now :-) and am on speaking terms with my version of the higher power thingy.
I am using quite a few smilies these days - a sign of not finding the right words and being much more content!
CS
Posted by john berk on September 2, 2005, at 20:53:53
In reply to Congratulations on your anniversary coming up! » john berk, posted by ClearSkies on September 2, 2005, at 20:40:07
Hi ClearSkies, thank you for your congrats!!
we all only have one day, i know that is the ultimate a.a. cliche, but total words of wisdom!!
i have had a year and fallen prey to the "beast"!! you sound great, and i am one of the loudest in your cheering section, you go!!!
also, being on good terms with a higher power is the ultimate!! best wishes..john
Posted by luvdove on September 7, 2005, at 6:42:47
In reply to One week clean, posted by ClearSkies on August 28, 2005, at 8:14:24
Hi ClearSkies... congrats on your one week clean!! Those first few hours, days, and weeks are the hardest! I kept relapsing for a year after rehab before I stopped using. I've read some of your other posts and know all too well how it feels when the pain of using + the pain of not using all becomes too much. I've immersed myself in NA, I didn't like AA so much but it does depend on the strength of the fellowship where you are in terms of how good the group's 'message' is. I'm sorry that you haven't felt at home there, I guess I've been very lucky. Have you had/got a sponsor? I've had mine for 4 years and highly recommend it! Just wanted to say though hun, just ask if you need anything because I might be able to help..
luv
Posted by luvdove on September 7, 2005, at 7:04:05
In reply to One week clean, posted by ClearSkies on August 28, 2005, at 8:14:24
Sorry clearskies I just read your posts properly and saw that your 1 week clean was over a week ago! Does that mean 2 weeks clean now..? And good on u for phoning that woman.. potential sponsor? It can be difficult to ask that "will you be my sponsor" question, but through being a sponsor myself I know what a special gift it is to be one. All the best!
luv
Posted by ClearSkies on September 7, 2005, at 7:20:30
In reply to Re: One week clean » ClearSkies, posted by luvdove on September 7, 2005, at 6:42:47
Thanks for asking.
I have a sponsor, and funny enough I had a good rant about her at my outpatient appointment yesterday, because...
she said I "need" to stop taking the Xanax I'm prescribed for GAD and panic attacks. I replied that I'm up front with my p-doc; that I take 1mg per day or less as needed; and I understand that a therapeutic dosage is between 2 and 6mg per day, so - where's the problem?
Oh, she said, you're going to abuse it now that you're sober. No question.Can you see the hackles rising on the back of my neck?
So I brought it up at the group meeting and the coordinator said, "yes - your brain chemistry has been altered by alcoholism and there is no doubt that you will start to abuse the Xanax now that you are sober."So I turned to her and asked whether she was advising that I *not* follow my doctor's instructions. I said - who am I supposed to trust here? My intuition? My doctor, who knows ALL about my history and endorses my treatment plan, or my sponsor, and now you? She back-pedalled and said that at the moment, since I have plenty of support IRL what with the Women For Sobriety group, outpatient treatment, p-doc and therapist, that maybe I should "suspend my activities in AA" because I'm getting mixed messages. Or, she said, I could continue to go to meetings, but told me not to share and speak about my depression, which has kept me from being able to work for months now, and "be careful".
OK, so it takes me bashing my head against a wall for 5 years off and on before something finally sinks in. And though I am extremely intuitive, I have forced myself to return to AA time and again because I've been told that it's the only way I'm going to stay sober. It doesn't feel right - in fact it feels like a betrayal to my very soul for me swallow the concept, that only AA will save my life. Yet, that is the exact message that they convey, at every single meeting.
Having gone the AA route about a dozen times and not been comfortable nor felt the fellowship in the meetings, can I finally admit that It Doesn't Work For Me? I am who I am - an alcoholic who is bipolar and suffers from anxiety, has a lifeboat filled with immediate family members with either one or the other dx, and AA cannot be a safe place for me. It's not that I haven't tried other meetings - women only, closed, open, speaker, step, up north, down south... the message is consistent: I don't belong there.
And then I cried for 2 hours.
Posted by antigua on September 7, 2005, at 22:21:10
In reply to Re: One week clean... » luvdove, posted by ClearSkies on September 7, 2005, at 7:20:30
Yea, I was told the same thing at an outpatient facility about giving up the Xanax (which was only .25 as needed--such a huge amount!). I did so for the program but my dr. later decided that he thought the Xanax was helping me not drink. And no I'm not addicted to it, either.
Sorry for the tears. Hang in there. You still know what works best for you.
best,
antigua
Posted by luvdove on September 7, 2005, at 23:50:28
In reply to Re: One week clean... » luvdove, posted by ClearSkies on September 7, 2005, at 7:20:30
Oh honey I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. It's that rock and hard place stuff, where every option seems to be met with some sort of opposition...
I struggle A LOT at times with trying to work out who knows best out of my t, my sponsor and my doctor, because the fact is that they are not all on the same page and/or coming from the same theoretical base, despite the fact that they all know my history. It's so hard to know who's got all the answers when I feel like I have no idea. Yes AA has worked for many, but it's not for everyone and I feel sad to hear that you haven't connected with it.
Some people in recovery are really 'hard-line' about medication and what constitutes using etc, because cross-addiction is very possible. I gave up my drug addiction for an eating disorder, and it's more of the same stuff really. With psych meds I think if you're as honest with your doc as you can be and follow the directions he/she gives you EXACTLY then you may not abuse them. It doesn't have to be as black and white as "you WILL abuse them", thats bullsh*t. Sorry I feel quite strongly about this, but then I also know how easy it could be to convince yourself that you need 'extra pills' because the feelings while not drinking are so painful.
It sounds like your support group is really good for you, and that you can get some needs met there. You will *always* get mixed messages from people from different orientations though, and this is something I've had to learn to live with. In my psych studies I've learnt what an asset it is to be able to hold ideas simultaneously that contradict, because so many DO!! And no-one will be 100% right on every issue, no matter how well they know you. You have to go with your gut, and what *feels* right. Take what you need and leave the rest. You said you're very intuitive so listen to that! I do feel for you though because I know how hard that can be.
Keep talking about this stuff!
Luv
Posted by ClearSkies on September 8, 2005, at 5:53:47
In reply to Re: One week clean... » ClearSkies, posted by luvdove on September 7, 2005, at 23:50:28
Intuitive antennae tuned in...
ClearSkies
Posted by AuntieMel on September 16, 2005, at 10:23:51
In reply to Re: One week clean... » luvdove, posted by ClearSkies on September 7, 2005, at 7:20:30
Lots of AA groups spout no medications. Others don't. I brought up my meds at a meeting once and they said that what I need to take, if properly prescribed, is not a problem. But I've seen others say the opposite.
The truth is that many alcoholics that quit are prone to abuse of other drugs, and anyone taking them has to be aware of this and be extra vigilant. That does *not* mean that you have to quit everything. It means that you have to be aware of what you are doing.
If you are up front with your doctor and you are careful that is all that matters.
I would find another sponsor.
Posted by ClearSkies on September 17, 2005, at 7:17:08
In reply to Re: One load of poo » ClearSkies, posted by AuntieMel on September 16, 2005, at 10:23:51
Yes, I've been hearing about others who have had many sponsors come and go before finding the person with whom they can connect and make progress.
For the time being, to simplify my recovery, I'm working with the outpatient group, my therapist, and the women's sobriety group for my support. Perhaps farther down the road I will give AA another attempt, but at the moment it's detracting from my treatment instead of enhancing it.
(And I really like my original long distance sponsor best...!)
Posted by tizza on September 23, 2005, at 5:58:23
In reply to Re: One load of poo » AuntieMel, posted by ClearSkies on September 17, 2005, at 7:17:08
I have just stopped drinking, i will be 2 weeks sober tomorrow. It's really hard but when your friends stop inviting you out, you know it's all about the demon drink and it really hurts. So you sit at home and drink alone because they don't want to be around a messy and sometimes verbally abusive drunk. So you just do it all alone at home and wake up in bed happy about the fact that you didn't get sh*tty or blackout in public, you just remember watching tv and then waking up in bed fully clothed. What kind of lifestyle is that!!!!!!!! Trapped in a viscious circle and not being able to control it. I'll tell you what it's like, IT SUCKS. It has taken me over 13 years to face up to the fact that I have a serious drinking problem. I tried AA about 6mnts ago. I went to 10 meetings in 10 days and I found it of no use whatsoever, in fact I found it so depressing that I would get some wine on the way home and drink my self into oblivion. I was lucky, I got a scare. I awoke in my room 2 weeks ago to find it full of otherworldly creatures which terrified me. I though I was dreaming at first and then it hit me, I can really see them, so I went to the loo, had a cigarette and went back to bed once I was a little calmer and haven't had a drink since. I'm on a low dose of effexor 75mg, valium for the shakes and ativan for sleep and about a thousand vitamins that a natropath prescribed me. Now I know the benzo's are addictive so I'm wary of them but they are helping me get to work without shaking. I just hope that I have the strength to keep it up. Spring has sprung and everybody is out and about sipping on chilled beers and wine and at the moment I still have the power to look the other way. Hoping to pull through this, sorry for the long post. Tizza (Paul)
Posted by ClearSkies on October 3, 2005, at 9:39:26
In reply to Re: two weeks clean, posted by tizza on September 23, 2005, at 5:58:23
How are you feeling, Tizza?
ClearSkies
Posted by tizza on October 4, 2005, at 0:48:43
In reply to Re: two weeks clean » tizza, posted by ClearSkies on October 3, 2005, at 9:39:26
I'm just over 3 weeks now and I'm starting to feel great. I went to a natropath who put me on heaps of vitamins, I'm drinking heaps of water and now I want to come off my meds. I'm tapering off effexor xr first and once I've done that I coming off valium. I suffer from GAD and at the moment I haven't felt any anxiety for about a week now. I still get cravings but at least the shaking is slowing down. P.s. Thanks for asking!!!!
Posted by tizza on October 4, 2005, at 0:53:21
In reply to Re: three weeks clean » ClearSkies, posted by tizza on October 4, 2005, at 0:48:43
I'm sorry that I forgot to ask you how you are doing. I hope all is well. Paul
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