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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by arrie on June 4, 2004, at 23:42:38
Well finally I got some attention! Thx for the response at least. As you know time goes slowly when your are in the grip of these "chemical" dilemas, hence the frustrated post. Actually, I was hoping that Chuckie fellow would be able to post some sort of follow up on how his buprenephrine treatment went as he is or was on the same ship as myself. He had an astounding amout of support on the board, due to his demand for responses and then nothing, after he got he the meds. So, I wanted to try and reopen the dialogue on this med. Sorry you are upset over your posts being moved, I am sure this Dr Bob did not mean anything by it, but yeah it IS hard to type this all out I agree. I have a hard time understanding the "civil" definition, go figure.
Posted by Impermanence on June 5, 2004, at 1:43:45
In reply to Thanks Caper -Impermanence Re:ME ME ME, posted by arrie on June 4, 2004, at 23:42:38
The "Civil" thing just means be aware of how others feel and understand that they may be offended or upset with your words.
Anyway back to buprenorphine, I diden't see your earlier posts regarding this particular drug. A quick search on google tells me it's used to ease heroin and cocaine withdrawal, as a recovered addict of both drugs I'm interested to hear how you're getting on and how this drug has helped you.
I got basicly no help with cocaine but took methadone to help me off heroin. I'm now clean of both drugs but am an alcoholic......... Ohhhhh it never ends!!!!!
I would love to hear more about why you take buprenorphine and how you are doing to get off it.Lots of love. xxxxxx
Posted by Caper on June 5, 2004, at 18:03:26
In reply to Thanks Caper -Impermanence Re:ME ME ME, posted by arrie on June 4, 2004, at 23:42:38
Hi arrie,
I'm glad you didn't give up on all of us, and I completely understand your frustrated/venting post. I've had to ask the same question more than once here too. I guess it all just depends upon what catches peoples' eyes and attention when they scan the boards, plus what information they have to offer. (Like I said, I had no clue what "bup" was.)
I'm not upset about the moved posts, I know they are still accessible.
I hope you are doing better and get the info that you seek.
Take care,
Caper
Posted by arrie on June 6, 2004, at 19:10:26
In reply to Re: Thanks Caper -Impermanence Re:ME ME ME, posted by Impermanence on June 5, 2004, at 1:43:45
Hey Imperm, how did you get off methodone? I am going to see a shrink shortly, sometime this month to begin bup treatment for a vicodin addiction. this is THE most frightening experience of my life to date. I am on vic about three weeks out of the month, then hardly have enough for week 4 every dang month I run short. What happens during that one week is so God awful. I am just astounded at the power of this drug.Its like heaven and hell every month, my options are methodone which scares me or the bup which I hear has been very successful. It has been hard finding a doc who isnt a sissy, but I finally did, he is out of town. Anyway, thanks for the post and tell me about your past if you can. I know this sounds awful, but at least with alcohol, you dont have to worry about supply.You know, I think i am begining to see alcoholics so differently now that I am an addict. We are still if not more so, a very expressive bunch. Maybe not like others because we just see and feel more, more soul or something. Take care.
Posted by Tony P on June 8, 2004, at 6:50:45
In reply to Re: Thanks Caper -Impermanence Re:ME ME ME » arrie, posted by Caper on June 5, 2004, at 18:03:26
> Hi arrie, [...clipped...]
> I'm not upset about the moved posts, I know they are still accessible.
>
I've noticed threads also sometimes move back and forth accidentally between the boards (it's happened to me). My guess is it depends on which message you're replying to - if a thread has moved, I now try to remember to check the "Board:" field before I hit post.Tony P
Posted by Impermanence on June 9, 2004, at 19:30:34
In reply to Re: Thanks Caper -Impermanence Re:ME ME ME, posted by arrie on June 6, 2004, at 19:10:26
Hi Arrie, I wasen't a heavy heroin user and I was only smoking for a few months so it wasen't too hard to come off, but I still needed help. It was the boredom after I got off the stuff that was the hardest. I was using allot of other drugs at the time so I think they had a big part to play in my withdrawals. I took 20mg of methadone for only about six weeks so again that wasen't hard to come off either, I tapered off, drank and took alot of benzos plus I was still using other illegal drugs to keep me busy. In saying that I would still advise you to stay away from methadone, you can become very dependent on this drug. Some people end up on it for years and withdrawals can be terrible and last for weeks and weeks but it depends on the person, how much you're taking, why you're taking and the help and monitoring you're getting, we're all different.
You said "I know this sounds awful, but at least with alcohol, you dont have to worry about supply." Thats the biggest problem with alcohol Arrie, thats why it's so hard to stay sober. I have went through absolute horrific withdrawals from alcohol and in pure panic drank more and more to ease the fear, this made the "absolute horrific" even more intense the next day. It's terrifying. And to make things worse, when you do get sober you are surrounded by a culture obsessed with alcohol to tempt you back to your demon. Every time I turn on my T.V. I get a beer or sprit add, every soap over here is based around a pub. Over here we have a pub culture that drinks to pass time, celebrate, drown sorrows, socialize, eat dinner, party, you name it. First thing people will say (for any reason) is "let's get the drinks in". Even Jesus drank wine lol. I know you don't drink nearly as much in the U.S. but believe me over here it's an absolute pub culture and the "supply" thing makes it very hard to ever change.
At least when you have to curtail your drugs because of whatever reason it keeps your addiction under control.It's true what you said about addicts, when you go through alot of suffering, any kind of suffering really, you become very aware of how others feel. It teaches you the value of humility and compassion. You (when not out of it!!) are very in touch with powerful emotions. Addicts have a real drive in them and when it's not being used to ingest substances it can be a great advantage in many ways. It's just sad many never realize the possibilities of the drive they waste on getting wasted!!
Posted by arrie on June 9, 2004, at 23:32:00
In reply to Re: Thanks Caper -Impermanence Re:ME ME ME » arrie, posted by Impermanence on June 9, 2004, at 19:30:34
Imperm, Lad, Chap, where are you living? Jolly old England I am guessing? You know my mum was an alchy. I basically reared her. I wish I knew then what I know now about addiction, I maybe could have helped her. She eventually drank herself into the custody of the state. Same thing with pop, he ended up in a "home". I noticed that it did not kill either one of them, so you can live through it. The thing with supply is this, just multiply all that horrible fear, with the fear of knowing cold turkey can kill sometimes, and if I am out, I am out. I get really scared I might die, but seems I never do. I have 50 pills now and I am thinking maybe I should try to kick it again cold, knowing at least I have them if needed seems to comfort me. When I am out I get terrified, you on the other have unlimited access and that can kill too, so its asically the same either way.
Have you ever thought that maybe you could drink in moderation? It is really a new theory that some alcoholics have found works. I just dont know. I know my medicine helps so much, I just feel better all the waay around, emotionally, physically, even spiritually. I think US medical system is messed up. Pain killers are yeah a big crime, but we can use poison like Botox, and stuff to get a big penis, that could give a heart attack, but just ask for a pain killer and that "lets sterile everything" attitude comes out. My son smokes pot, he shouldnt, but I dont make a big deal out of it, because there is so much worse out there that he could be taking, and it seems to unwind him. He is bi-polar and nothing to date evens him out too well. At least pot is a natural plant. I even think the poppy is a sacred plant, and if these things were just used in a medicinal way I would be all for that, but few agree with me I am sure, and I am a religous woman!
Anyway, you sound like a smart guy and it seems you are very tuned in, you have more than likely helped many people without being aware of it. How long has your battle with the bottle raged on? I think there is hope for both of us, I know so. I think you like me have not really given up the substance in our hearts and that is why we cant get over it. Or perhaps its the withdrawl blockaid. I mean I literally feel like I have no reason to live when I am off this drug. But when I am on it(being in my senses) I can see crystal clear the entire situation and feels the most motivated to quit, when I am ON IT. I hope this Dr can help. I am set up to see him early July, but I am thinking of trying to get in earlier. I will keep ya posted. Take care and drink lites for Chrissake.
Posted by Impermanence on June 10, 2004, at 22:46:15
In reply to Re: Thanks Caper -Impermanence Re:ME ME ME » Impermanence, posted by arrie on June 9, 2004, at 23:32:00
Hay Arrie, I'm really sorry to hear about your Mum and Dad, thats so sad, I will think of them in my prayers. Yep I'm from the U.K.
I know you think you might die during cold turky but believe me it's unlikely unless kill yourself to escape the pain and fear, yes I know there is a chance of going into convulsions but the chances of that are so small it's not something to worry about. I know the panic you can feel will trick you into thinking anything. You have been taking Vicodin for so long now your mind and body need it to function normally and when you cut down the craving you feel can send you into a frenzy and it seems unbearable both mentally and physically, your body is telling your brain it needs the vicodin to work properly but it dosen't, this is addiction, it's hell, I know. Even if you did get off it cold turky you still have the mental addiction to deal with which can play with you for a long time after you get off the drug. I suggest you try to taper off slowly on this batch and keep going to see your doctor so he can monitor and guide you. If you keep failing I think you should go to a treatment center. It's so hard to go it alone, but remember you're not alone, there is so many of us out there going through the same or far worse symptoms. I've abused just about everything and I feel your pain, you can do this. Just don't delude yourself. You have another 50 pills now and all thats going to do is keep you a slave to Vicodin for a little longer. You don't need it, your body just needs to relearn how to live without it.I know you ment well saying "can you just drink in moderation" but just dosen't work like that when you're an alcoholic, drinking is not an option if you ever really want to get better. Once a drink passes my lips I have to get drunk, I just can't help myself, I wish I could.
I'm sorry but I don't think it's such a good idea to be so easy going about your son smoking weed, what age is he? I started smoking weed at the age of twelve and was a cronic stoner (up to an ounce a week) for ten years. I'm only recently off the crap but I'm sure it's been the root cause of much of my mental illness and addiction. I know the sedative side of cannabis could be of use to him but you must remember it's also an hallucinogenic and being as he's already bipolar this could cause serious adverse effects after years of abuse. It could even lead to schizophrenia. People don't take weed as serious as they should, I know I diden't. Over here we get extremely strong skunk and hash so maybe my experience is different.
You wanted to know how long my battle with the bottle has been going on so here's a post I wrote to Caper not so long ago (I'm lazy, I know) http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20040409/msgs/350296.html. Truth is it's more of a battle with addiction in general, drugs took far more from me than alcohol but in saying that the most horrific withdrawals have been alcohol and believe me I've had comedowns like you woulden't believe on massive amounts of class a.
I'm now dependent on benzodiazepines too, I started them about 19 months ago to try and get some life back and all they have done is give me another problem!!! Ahhh such is life lol.You take care of yourself Arrie, you have so much beautiful life to live free of that bloody Vicodin. It has such a hold on you. I pray you will get off it. Think about going into a treatment center. It's so hard to do it by yourself.
Lot's of love. xxxxx
Posted by arrie on June 15, 2004, at 0:10:14
In reply to Re: Thanks Caper -Impermanence Re:ME ME ME » arrie, posted by Impermanence on June 10, 2004, at 22:46:15
Oh thanks Impermie, youre such a nice gent. Well my Vics are dwindeling but I am trying to not get too scared. My appt with the Shrink is on 7/9 so I just have to keep the supply going until that day. Once I start the Bup treatment at least i have half a chance, thats all I need is just alittle victory over this problem to get me motivated. i think I am going to try to quit smoking this week, that is hard but always make me feel like i have some power over self and therefore helps me psychologically, at least its nothing like Vicodin withdrawl, not even close. I am wondering if Ultram maybe a good step down drug from this Vicodin. Sorry about your booze struggles, that is one I sure dont have, because I hated seeing it and smelling it on mommy and daddy, they were good for something I guess. My son has major issues but wont cooperate with Docs and take meds, says they dont work nad I beleive him. I saw him on meth for awhile and that really scared me, so I let the weed slide as long as that is all is does and he says it is. I dont like but compared to what he could be on, its the less of two evils. why is it so bad anyway, how did you stop it? Dude, you need to write a book. I am going to start writing soon about my addiction, just need to wait until something positve can happen towards a cure, or it would truly be psyco babble Ha, I see Dr Bob is pink this week, what up with that? keep in touch and I will do same. Take care
Posted by arrie on June 15, 2004, at 0:16:59
In reply to Re: Thanks Caper -Impermanence Re:ME ME ME » arrie, posted by Impermanence on June 10, 2004, at 22:46:15
Just read your other post, geez youre just starting out, youre plenty young to get this thing whipped, DO IT. My son is in a rock group that just got signed to tour and record, I know he is not going to give pot up now, but hope once his dreams of being a musician become more reality he wont self medicate so much, he wants to do this so bad, but no control, what happens happens in music, right?
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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