Shown: posts 4 to 28 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by fallsfall on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:12
In reply to Re: To school or not to school » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 14:15:25
I find that if I go into something with the idea that I was "trying it out", that it is easier to change things later than if I commit to begin with.
Instead of starting on a degree, can you just take a class? Then your commitment is just to that class. When it is done, you can decide to do another (or not). You only would have to commit to the degree process after you have tried out the classes enough to know what you are enjoying and what you can handle.
This is a problem at the Library school I've been looking at. You can only take a class if you are enrolled in a degree program. I want to just take a class. I think most schools are more flexible than the one near me... I hope so!
And I think that for the first (and even second) class that you take, that it doesn't really matter if it will be the "right" class to take for whatever degree you might eventually go for. Make the first class a class that you are interested in - and think of the purpose of the class as being to experience what taking a class is like.
I'm glad that you want to do stuff in the real world.
Posted by Annierose on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:13
In reply to Re: To school or not to school » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on June 11, 2005, at 14:31:10
I agree with Falls. Just commit to a class and see how it goes. You already have your degree, so as a grown-up, you can even drop a class if it gets too over-whelming.
I think it's great. I went back to school years ago when my first husband left me. It kept me occupied in the evenings after work and gave my brain focus. I never completed the second degree, but I did decide to open my own business. So it was worth the process. Learning is always worth the process.
Annierose
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:13
In reply to Re: To school or not to school, posted by Annierose on June 11, 2005, at 15:00:07
So it was worth the process. Learning is always worth the process.
>
> AnnieroseThat's so true!
I like what both Falls and Annierose said.
Though I had to leave College :( I had endless energy for it because I loved what I was taking. Actually it was energizing, life affirming.
(I took Religious studies too, among other things)
ECE which I'm going back to in the fall is different, I *have* to do it to get work, and though I think I'll like the work, the education process is exhausting and stressful for me, even though in many respects it should be much easier.I do think that if you can adjust your pace, and it's something you're interested in, it would be the cure for burnout, and very good for you. Your (yes, you) mind never stops being inquisitive anyway, why not go with it?
Posted by gardenergirl on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:13
In reply to Re: To school or not to school » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 14:15:25
> Chuckle.
>
> That is exactly what my therapist said.
>
> My thought was that I'd be too ashamed to change course once I committed to something. I guess I need to try to adjust my attitude.Oh golly, haven't I told you my career path? This is my third career. I assume it will be my last, but who knows? When interviewing, I try to tie all my jobs together with the theme that they all involved working to help people figure out what they need and help them to get it.
It's loose, but it works. :)
Don't be ashamed of changing your mind. It's a woman's prerogative, after all. :)
gg
Posted by Tamar on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:13
In reply to To school or not to school, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 10:20:39
> Has anyone done this? What was the result? Am I nuts?I haven't done it myself, but I've seen many people try it, with great success. My own view (for what it's worth) is that you should go for it.
Good luck!
Tamar
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:13
In reply to Re: To school or not to school » Dinah, posted by Tamar on June 11, 2005, at 19:22:39
Along with transcript requests.
Eeek.
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:13
In reply to Re: To school or not to school » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on June 11, 2005, at 14:31:10
I think this university allows you to enroll in classes without first declaring which degree you are working toward. But they then don't guarantee that your classes will count toward any degree. Or something like that. Anyway, that's an easy one. I can't imagine deciding anything other than psychology for a second undergraduate degree.
Is there a problem in enrolling in a degree program? Even if you just want to take just one class? This university allows you to take one class at a time even if you are enrolled. Now their graduate program in Psychology requires that you be a full time student...
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:13
In reply to Ok, the application goes off Monday, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 19:40:26
I suppose this will at least give useful information on how permanent my cognitive impairments are. :(
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:13
In reply to Oh my..., posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 19:43:46
I can't do it.
I just can't.
I can't keep up with my work now. I jsut can't.
Posted by annierose on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:13
In reply to no no no no no no no no, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 22:13:37
Applying to the university doesn't commit you to taking a class in the fall. It's just the start of the process. So mail the application, then you'll get accepted, and then you can sign up for a class or not ... depending upon your schedule.
Go for it! There is nothing to lose in beginning this process.
Annierose
Posted by fallsfall on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to no no no no no no no no, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 22:13:37
Back up. i'm doing the same dance that you are...
Is there one particular class that you would like to take? That you think would be interesting? Don't think about the degree, or a change in occupation or even the second class. You said that you thought that a class would be invigorating for you - that it would make it easier for you to do your work. That is a real possibility. So don't give up yet. Let's think this through a little.
So let's take Psych 101 as an example (since you mentioned it). Personally, I think that you probably know 80% of the material already. But that doesn't make it a bad choice. It would give you the experience of going to classes, taking tests, writing papers in a subject that you are comfortable with. And you would be filling in the gaps in your knowledge (that other 20%). We know it is a subject that is interesting to you. So I don't think you would find the *subject* difficult. The difficulty would be in finding a way to fit the necessary work for the class into your schedule.
So let's talk about that. When does the class meet? Does it meet 1X or 2X or 3X/week? How long are the classes? Which schedule would you like better? [for me, I would want a class that meets 2 or 3/week because I wouldn't want to need to sit through a 3 hour class. So for me, a shorter class would be worth going more than once a week. How does this work for you? What would be better for you?] Does the class meet on days and times that you think you could go to? How long would it take you to get to the campus? Can you park? How far would you have to walk? Factor in all the transportation and class time and everything and figure out how long each class would really take - door to door. Part of this process is letting you do a mental runthrough of what it would be like to go to class. But remember that you think that the excitement of taking a class will help ease the burden.
What work would you expect to have to do outside of class? Reading, studying for tests, writing papers. You already do lots of reading... What is it like for you to study for tests? Remember that you will be pretty interested in the material (and you know 80% of it anyway). Somehow I don't think the papers would be hard for you! You could even talk to a professor and ask about the class. I don't think they would be surprised at your questions.
Remember that you are only deciding about taking ONE class.
What is the cost? Do you have the money, or a way to get the money? Would you have to give something up in order to pay for school? Would you be willing to give that up?
Now the hard part: time.
Your schedule tends to be pretty flexible, as I understand it. You often work from home, and often aren't working 9 - 5. So I would think that *scheduling* the time to do the class wouldn't be a problem. The question is whether you would *have* the extra time to do the class - and the extra energy required.
(By the way, this discussion is as much for me as it is for you. I need to start moving forward towards whatever happens in my life "after depression". I am wrestling with these same decisions myself.)
I have found in the last couple of months, that when I am motivated to do things, that I can do them better than I expect. Not perfectly, but better than I expect. So I'm finding that enthusiasm makes things possible that I didn't think would be possible. You have enthusiasm for going back to school - just read your posts! So you have the underlying motivation to make it work. The question is whether you are ready *now* to do this. During some of your harder work times, you have successfully done the "finish this small work task and then you can have this reward" thing. And that has worked for you. Does taking this class count in your mind as a reward? Do you think that you would be able to motivate yourself to get your work done by saying that it is the "cost" of taking the class? Your difficulty in working seems largely motivational to me - maybe if you saw your work as the thing that made school possible, it would be easier to do - because you would have something to look forward to after you get the work done.
Another idea is to find an Adult Ed class to take this summer, just to try out "taking a class". Don't take a college class in the summer - a full course load in the summer is 2 classes at a time, so they are twice as intense in the summer. But take a class in the stock market, or some computer application you don't know, or sign language, or whatever. Just to try out the idea of taking a class.
You *HAVE* time in your day. You spend it taking care of your family, and buying things online, and procrastinating about working, and reading Babble, and taking naps, and watching TV. The real question is whether you would be happier if you spent the time taking a class instead, and would the class be motivating enough for you to give up some of those activities?
It would be helpful for me to talk this through with you - like I said, I am making the same kind of decision myself.
Posted by Poet on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to no no no no no no no no, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 22:13:37
Hi Dinah,
My T encouraged me to go back to school and take writing classes. I ended up taking four of them and receiving a certificate. Of course, my goal was to get a job out of it (everybody, togther, LOL.) My T's goal was for me to prove to myself that I am smart enough to complete a class.
Take a class that you are really interested in. It doesn't have to be towards a degree or certificate. Just start out with one that you know you want to learn more about.
Poet
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to To school or not to school, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 10:20:39
> Part of me is positive that my current trouble in concentration and motivation is related to the fact that I'm burned out. And I think that if I take a class or two at the local university, my brain will get sharper like it used to be, and I'll be able to work better, not worse...
>
> Has anyone done this? What was the result? Am I nuts?I went back to school at age 41. I really enjoyed it the first couple of years, but I got sick toward the end and had to cut back my schedule. Still, I kept plugging along and I got my degree last year, and it was very fulfilling. (I didn't go to college after high school.) I'm thinking of going back to study Spanish next! (Maybe at the local community college.)
Maybe take one class, and see how it goes? I wouldn't worry a lot about taking something that you might need later. Start with something that the thought of excites you. If you're worried about it being too much, talk with your husband about what you could drop. I say do it!
Posted by JenStar on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to Re: no no no no no no no no » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on June 12, 2005, at 11:06:21
Falls,
this is a really insightful post! I'm actually thinking about going back for a master's degree too, so I'm in the same boat as you & Dinah. I like the idea of "one class at a time" -- sort of just to try it out and see if it fits. I was going to write a similar post, but yours is perfect so I won't even try to re-summarize! Thanks for verbalizing these things I've been thinking.It's nice to know that other people are feeling the same way, and are in the same boat.
JenStar
Posted by jay on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to no no no no no no no no, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 22:13:37
> I can't do it.
>
> I just can't.
>
> I can't keep up with my work now. I jsut can't.Dinah....
I am a 'adult/working' learner myself. Not only was I born with a developmental disability, I have this horrid mental illness like you and others do. I, too, am going back in the Fall to university to get my B.Ed degree. I started back (after being away for 10 years) last summer, took a third year course and got an 80 in it. I was still having some pretty bad problems with my mind, stress, life, etc. Nowadays, I feel a bit more confident, but I share the same fears as you. As other's have suggested, do everything in your power to reduce stress. I imagine you can also register with your campus disability/special needs department, so they have your info on file in case you need to drop out all of a sudden, or say need some accommodations like exam time limits, etc. Even just ONE course will put the wind back in your sails. I hope you give it a shot....but I can understand if you don't.
Either way,
Best Wishes,
Jay
Posted by Tamar on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to no no no no no no no no, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 22:13:37
> I can't do it.
>
> I just can't.
>
> I can't keep up with my work now. I jsut can't.Like others who've replied, I really want to encourage you. And, for what it’s worth, I don’t think that your studies would prevent you keeping up with your job. I know you're worried about your work, but if you're worried about the time that studying will take up, I would encourage you to believe you can cope.
I teach adults, and many of my students are people who are coming back to school as mature students. Many of them are studying part time and have full time jobs. Some of them have special needs or mental illness. These are often the best students; they're committed and even though they don't have much time for study, their interest in the subject carries them through.
In fact, the hardest thing about returning to school is not usually the schoolwork, but the culture shock. It takes time to get used to new systems, new rules and new people. So I would advise you (as others have) to start with just one class and take it slowly until you get a feel for how you can fit your studies into the rest of your life.
And I would agree with Annierose: sending off the application is just the first part of the process. You can pull out later if you really feel you have to.
At this point you really have nothing to lose.
I formed the impression you’ve been thinking about this for a while. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it if you go for it. I don’t know if this applies, but your desire to back off now reminds me of my attempts to avoid going to parties. I always think it’s a good idea three weeks in advance, but when it gets to the day of the party I get cold feet. And yet I know that I’ll enjoy it when I get there. I have no particular reason to fear rejection or failure, and yet I get very anxious. Is it like that for you with going back to school?
Posted by fallsfall on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to Re: no no no no no no no no » fallsfall, posted by JenStar on June 12, 2005, at 13:10:56
I don't know if I'm ready to *do* this yet, but I'm ready to think about it... At this point I'm saying "It might be a good thing for me to go back to school, but I'm not sure what direction to go in, but maybe taking a single course this fall might help me to feel more confidence about things".
I live in a college town, so I could take a class there. Or I could take a class online. The college here doesn't really have the classes I think I want for the long term, but it would have a "Let's see if we like taking classes" class.
I am signing up (trying to sign up) for a vocational evaluation to help me know what direction to go in, but it could takes months to get that started.
Do you know what you want to major in?
Anyone else want to join the club? I'm hoping the rules say that to join the club you need to be willing to consider the possibility that you will go back to school some day. No more commitment than that for me!!
Posted by Bobby on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to no no no no no no no no, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2005, at 22:13:37
If anybody can do it---you can. I've got faith in you Dinah! If classes seem too much--what about some online courses that are not as involved to start out? Don't sweat so much--time is on your side. There's always tomorrow.
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to Re: no no no no no no no no » Dinah, posted by Bobby on June 12, 2005, at 16:56:30
I am so internally conflicted about this. I guess that's apparent from my posts. :) I swing sooo widely in how I view it.
What's astonishing me is how positively my husband is viewing it. He's worried that it'll take time away from the family of course, but overall he's being really supportive in a way most unlike him.
Falls, you brought up some really good points that I want to give some thought to before replying.
Especially about commute time and parking and walking. I'd be going to a much bigger university than I've ever been to before. One of those huge impersonal places. And it's a fair commute, timewise. And not in the same direction as anyplace else I go. I think I really am scared by the idea of such a big place, and professors that aren't much involved with the students.
At both universities I attended, there were really low student/faculty ratios even in 101 classes. Chemistry was the only class that was large enough to be in anything bigger than a normal high school sized classroom, and that wasn't a good experience (50% right was an A, with the curve). I used to go up with a revolving group of students after every trigonometry class to the professor's office where he'd give the class again, but interactively, because I really had trouble grasping trig.
I don't know. I'm feeling confident and competent again at the moment, but as bedtime nears the scary university monsters will come out from under the bed and scare me witless.
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to Thanks everyone, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2005, at 22:56:23
Posted by alexandra_k on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to BTW, I love the idea of a back to school club :) (nm), posted by Dinah on June 12, 2005, at 22:57:16
You should be able to check their lists of papers online. From there you should be able to obtain a past years course outline. That should give you an outline of the topics covered in the course and should also give you the name of the txt book and any reccomended readings.
Looking at all three can be a good way of deciding whether the paper is likely to interest you or not.
I don't know how things work in the US but over here we need to take a major subject and a supporting subject. Most degrees (especially arts and social sciences) also give you some options to take general interest papers.
Over here you don't really need to decide until your second full time year what you want to major in and what you want your first support to be etc.
Sometimes you find that a subject that you wouldn't have thought would interest you all that much really does. And sometimes you find that a subject that you would have thought interesting actually isn't to you because of the interests of the faculty members in the department.
Ideally a first year psychology paper should give you a good general overview of all the different areas within psychology. Psychology doesn't deserve to be a unified discipline IMO. Some of it is fun, other aspects need to tell you a bit of a story to explain how they got to be in the psychology department!
Religion / comparative religion can depend on where the faculties interests lie.
May I suggest...
The students board???
(Just trying to get the board a bit more active)
:-)
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to Re: no no no no no no no no » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on June 12, 2005, at 11:06:21
Ok, I think I'm ready. For one thing, I've already mailed in the application, and now just need to agonize over registering. And whether to see if I'm eligible for honors classes.
> Back up. i'm doing the same dance that you are...
>
> Is there one particular class that you would like to take? That you think would be interesting? Don't think about the degree, or a change in occupation or even the second class. You said that you thought that a class would be invigorating for you - that it would make it easier for you to do your work. That is a real possibility. So don't give up yet. Let's think this through a little.
>
I would like to take some psychology courses. Of course the really interesting ones require that you take the 100 level course first. And the really really interesting ones also require statistics, which is dull in the extreme. So I'm guessing I'll have to do boring before I can do interesting. I am giving consideration to seeing if I can qualify for the honors Psych 101. Although my therapist thinks that's stupid.> So let's take Psych 101 as an example (since you mentioned it). Personally, I think that you probably know 80% of the material already. But that doesn't make it a bad choice. It would give you the experience of going to classes, taking tests, writing papers in a subject that you are comfortable with. And you would be filling in the gaps in your knowledge (that other 20%). We know it is a subject that is interesting to you. So I don't think you would find the *subject* difficult. The difficulty would be in finding a way to fit the necessary work for the class into your schedule.
It's one of those auditorium classes. Which leads my husband to believe I can do it with my eyes closed. I'm not sure. I think they try to flunk people out in the freshman year in those huge classes. Plus, I'm used to smaller professor student ratios. I might find it overwhelming.
>
> So let's talk about that. When does the class meet? Does it meet 1X or 2X or 3X/week? How long are the classes? Which schedule would you like better? [for me, I would want a class that meets 2 or 3/week because I wouldn't want to need to sit through a 3 hour class.They don't seem to offer it once a week. For me, the fewer times I go, the better. It's about forty five minutes to an hour away, depending on traffic. You have to park and walk forever (so I get the extra benefit of exercise). So it would be an hour and twenty minutes? I think. Twice a week.
>So for me, a shorter class would be worth going more than once a week. How does this work for you? What would be better for you?] Does the class meet on days and times that you think you could go to? How long would it take you to get to the campus? Can you park? How far would you have to walk? Factor in all the transportation and class time and everything and figure out how long each class would really take - door to door. Part of this process is letting you do a mental runthrough of what it would be like to go to class. But remember that you think that the excitement of taking a class will help ease the burden.
>
If I take the 8 am class, I'll be back to my office by noon. If I take the 9 am class, the day is probably shot. I can still work at home.
> What work would you expect to have to do outside of class? Reading, studying for tests, writing papers. You already do lots of reading... What is it like for you to study for tests? Remember that you will be pretty interested in the material (and you know 80% of it anyway). Somehow I don't think the papers would be hard for you! You could even talk to a professor and ask about the class. I don't think they would be surprised at your questions.
>
That one I don't know the answer to. Are you more or less likely to get papers in those exceedingly large classes. More likely to get multiple choice tests? My husband thinks it will be very easy. I have no frame of reference.
> Remember that you are only deciding about taking ONE class.Definitely!! And only two semesters a year.
>
> What is the cost? Do you have the money, or a way to get the money? Would you have to give something up in order to pay for school? Would you be willing to give that up?The cost for the school I'm going to is within my budget, especially since I'll have to drop to once a week therapy at most. (My therapist is not surprisingly against my going to school under those circumstances). Plus income tax deductions or credits. The school I'd rather go to is beyond my reach, being roughly $2000 per course.
The time involved in going to therapy is also only a bit less than the time involved in going to school - actual class wise. I'd have to give up a lot of Babble time. And go down to once a week therapy. Part of me is willing. Part of me is completely opposed. People must think I'm very conflicted.
>
> Now the hard part: time.
>
> Your schedule tends to be pretty flexible, as I understand it. You often work from home, and often aren't working 9 - 5. So I would think that *scheduling* the time to do the class wouldn't be a problem. The question is whether you would *have* the extra time to do the class - and the extra energy required.I'm a bit worried about the 8 am too. And that would be the best time for my life. I know I could show up at that time and listen appropriately. I'm not sure I could take exams.
>
> (By the way, this discussion is as much for me as it is for you. I need to start moving forward towards whatever happens in my life "after depression". I am wrestling with these same decisions myself.)My therapist thinks this is an impulsive and ill-thought decision born of dropping Depakote and resulting mild hypomania. I think it's born of feeling good and strong for the first time in years. At least part of me does.
>
> I have found in the last couple of months, that when I am motivated to do things, that I can do them better than I expect. Not perfectly, but better than I expect. So I'm finding that enthusiasm makes things possible that I didn't think would be possible. You have enthusiasm for going back to school - just read your posts! So you have the underlying motivation to make it work. The question is whether you are ready *now* to do this. During some of your harder work times, you have successfully done the "finish this small work task and then you can have this reward" thing. And that has worked for you. Does taking this class count in your mind as a reward? Do you think that you would be able to motivate yourself to get your work done by saying that it is the "cost" of taking the class? Your difficulty in working seems largely motivational to me - maybe if you saw your work as the thing that made school possible, it would be easier to do - because you would have something to look forward to after you get the work done.This is my thought. That my problems with work are caused as much from apathy and boredom as from any thing else. And that if I energize myself by stimulating my bored and somewhat depressed brain, I'll have more energy for everything.
>
> Another idea is to find an Adult Ed class to take this summer, just to try out "taking a class". Don't take a college class in the summer - a full course load in the summer is 2 classes at a time, so they are twice as intense in the summer. But take a class in the stock market, or some computer application you don't know, or sign language, or whatever. Just to try out the idea of taking a class.Around here, it's too late. However, I am going to order a Latin class to study at home. If I ever make it to my Religious Studies masters (world religions), I'll need to be fluent in reading a foreign language. I wanted to learn Hebrew instead. But I've already learned Latin once (and forgotten it), and I won't need to learn a new alphabet. The curriculum in Psychology requires a currently spoken language. :( But I've always wanted to learn American sign language, which qualifies. I think my accent will be execrable though. You remember how graceful I am...
There's a woman in church who speaks American Sign Language with such a lovely, graceful, almost lyrical accent.
>
> You *HAVE* time in your day. You spend it taking care of your family, and buying things online, and procrastinating about working, and reading Babble, and taking naps, and watching TV. The real question is whether you would be happier if you spent the time taking a class instead, and would the class be motivating enough for you to give up some of those activities?
>
*I* most definitely am. I, on the other hand, am not willing to give up Babble or therapy.> It would be helpful for me to talk this through with you - like I said, I am making the same kind of decision myself.
Have you come to any conclusions? :)
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:14
In reply to Ok, I'm ready. Falls and everyone., posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 11:53:01
I discovered I'm eligible for honors courses. But my therapist thinks it's stupid to start with one.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:15
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm ready. Falls and everyone., posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 12:52:54
> I discovered I'm eligible for honors courses. But my therapist thinks it's stupid to start with one.
That's a tough one. I qualified too, and took honors courses my first two semesters. I really enjoyed the professors and the other students, but it did start to wear after a while, and I felt I was worrying about my honors work so much that my major wasn't getting my full attention. If you decide to do it, I'd advise keeping your schedule very light. It is very fulfilling, but also very demanding, as you can imagine.
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 21:50:15
In reply to Re: Honors college » Dinah, posted by Minnie-Haha on June 15, 2005, at 13:13:10
I'm not even enrolled yet, and I think I'm up to my old tricks. Being competitive. Having grades matter way too much. Of course, if they really matter, I shouldn't take honors. :)
I think more than anything I'm scared at the large class size in non-honors classes. And wanting more interaction with other students and the professor. It's just too different than what I'm used to, and not in an appealing way. But maybe that's just the cost you pay when you pay less in tuition.
I'm only taking one class per semester. I was afraid that would disqualify me from the honors program, but apparently not.
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