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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on February 6, 2008, at 0:39:27
In reply to Re: Still feel bad *trigger*, posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 0:29:18
Deneb, why would people not hire you in your thirties? You know that isn't true. I'm sorry your mother doesn't know it isn't true. But her thoughts on the topic doesn't make her conclusions true.
A fair number of my classmates that I happened to have run across have changed careers at various points in their lives. Some hadn't finished college right after high school. Some went back and qualified for something new. None of them found it was a problem to get employment. Probably more people I know went back to school as an adult than stayed on the same course their whole lives. Nor is this a recent development. It was true of some of my relatives years ago.
I think it's pretty smart of you to figure out that you are progressing at just the right speed for you.
Posted by rskontos on February 6, 2008, at 8:44:20
In reply to Re: Thinking of killing self or running away, posted by Deneb on February 5, 2008, at 23:57:51
Deneb, what is the class out of curiosity... maybe we can help you with it until you find a IRL tutor? you have a lot of smart people here make use of their brains for now...rsk
I have a degree in education.....just not teaching now..i am qualified to be a tutor
Posted by Poet on February 6, 2008, at 12:15:34
In reply to Re: Still feel bad *trigger*, posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 0:29:18
Hi Deneb,
I disagree with your parents that getting your degree later means you won't get hired. I just finished a certificate program and most people in the class were age 30 plus.
I knew at age 17 I didn't want kids, I never thought I'd be married, either, then the right guy came along and at age 40 I got married.
Have you thought of working a fulltime job, maybe take one class and getting an apartment? Do you have any friends you might be roomates with? I really felt free when I moved out of my parents house. I know it would be a big step, but its something to think about.
Take care.
Poet
Posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2008, at 12:52:57
In reply to Re: Still feel bad *trigger* » Deneb, posted by Poet on February 6, 2008, at 12:15:34
Deneb did the opposite married at l8 first child at l9 last at 27. School in 30's graduated at age 38. Oldest in my class was in her 50's so people do things at different times in their lives. Love Phillipa
Posted by MidnightBlue on February 6, 2008, at 14:16:23
In reply to Re: Still feel bad *trigger*, posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 0:29:18
Deneb,
Only get married and have children when/if YOU want to. Your parents and society don't have a vote on this.
Yes there are certain things a person "has" to do. Best I can tell you are doing those! You are working at a job to help support yourself, you are going to school to get a better education, you are going to a pdoc and learning about yourself and how to take care of yourself, you are reaching out to others and making friends.
It is okay if your timetable isn't the same as your Mom's. If she gets really sick and tired of putting up with you then try to find a roommate and see if you can make it on your own. But do NOT go and live with your sister! See if your pdoc has some suggestions.
MB
Posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 15:32:38
In reply to Re: Still feel bad *trigger* » Deneb, posted by MidnightBlue on February 6, 2008, at 14:16:23
I talked with my pdoc and she made me feel confident enough to start trying again, but then I came home and my sister made me feel bad again.
She made me cry then she started mocking me, saying "Oh Boo Hoo, I'm crying, now I want to die."
I said I was going to look for a tutor and she said I'm wasting my money, don't find a tutor.
I know she thinks I'm a loser. She said she's going to have to support me in the future, so I better not go against her.
I feel like running away again.
Posted by Dinah on February 6, 2008, at 15:39:50
In reply to Re: Still feel bad, posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 15:32:38
Deneb, if someone steps on your toe everytime you see them, it might be wise to take your toe out of their way.
Your sister is saying mean things every time you see her. It's time to draw boundaries. It's ok to walk away if she's choosing to overstep the line. It's ok to tell her you love her but you are going to choose not to be around her until she's ready to talk respectfully adult to adult. Don't let her get past the first line of her dialog.
You aren't going to get anything useful from her right now. At least try to minimize the hurt she can inflict.
If you can't get away from her, at least recognize what's happening and put on your strongest psychic footwear so she can't actually do your toes any harm.
If you are mature, keep your head, and walk away, she's going to look pretty bad in comparison, don't you think? Maybe even to you. You keep comparing yourself unfavorably to her, but would you act this way?
Posted by Kath on February 6, 2008, at 16:26:42
In reply to Re: OK, I feel better now, posted by Deneb on February 5, 2008, at 14:52:28
> I need to escape the abuse.
Deneb - I am SO glad to see you recognizing 'abuse'.
I am certainly not laughing at you & if your sister knew what I was thinking about her behaviour of you, she'd probably shrivel up!!!!
I am appalled at her abusive behaviour towards you. She should be ashamed of herself.
I have only read your first 2 posts yet, & I AM going to read everyone's replies. But first I want to say a few things.
I am very proud of you. I'm proud that you're thinking about YOUR own NEEDS. I'm proud that you're thinking for yourself. I'm proud of you that you're recognizing behaviour that is NOT OKAY. I'm proud of you that you don't want to be exposed to this behaviour any more.
That's all I'm going to say until I read the rest of the posts Deneb.
much love, Kathryn, who cares immensely for you; thinks you're wonderful & supports what you decide you need to do for YOURSELF.
xoxo
Posted by Kath on February 6, 2008, at 16:40:54
In reply to Re: Still feel bad *trigger*, posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 0:29:18
> My parents tell me by the time I get my degree I'll be old and no one will hire me.
>
> They all want me to go through life like everyone else, finish school, get a job, get married, have kids.
>
> I'm not sure I even want to get married or have kids. I'm not power hungry or money hungry. I can live a pretty simple life and be happy. What my Mom wants for me is different from what I want in life.
>
> For my Mom, life isn't about beiing happy, it's about doing things that must be done. For me, I like putting myself through as less stress as possible.
>
> I'm personally OK with getting my degree in my 30's or not getting married until I'm 40 or 50. It just seems that society and my parents aren't OK with these things.
>
> I believe I develop much more slowly than other people. Right now I'd say I'm in the teenage phase. Up until now I've not wanted independence from my family, but right now I find I want some.
>
> I just wish my family supported the way I lead my life.
******Deneb - Look at how wise you are!!! You have SO much insight in this post, it blows me away!!YOU are an individual!! Not all of society pushes the marry, get a house, have kids thing, but a lot of people do, you're right.
A lot of people get uncomfortable & sorta bossy & pushy when someone is different from them. I've been a vegetarian for decades. As you probably know, I'm 60 & nowadays if I say I'm a veggie nobody 'bats an eyelash'.....it's no big deal, because way more people are vegatarians. When I was in my 20's & 30's if I said I was veggie people would say, "WHY!!!" as if I had to give them a damned good reason why I'd DARE to do something so bizarre - what NERVE I had, to dare to be different from them.
So yes, probably most folks sorta expect others to follow a certain pattern with their life. But YAY for you! You're looking at your life, which is a gift that has been given to you. You're deciding how you want to live it.
Your family is freaking because they're pretty traditional, it sounds like.
Anyway, I'm still reading the posts, but wanted to stop at this one to let you know how impressed I am. If you were my daughter I'd be glad to hear you deciding how you wanted to live your life!!!
Love, Kath
Posted by Kath on February 6, 2008, at 16:42:11
In reply to Re: Thinking of killing self or running away » Deneb, posted by rskontos on February 6, 2008, at 8:44:20
You ar so sweet & generous!
Kath
Posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 17:02:17
In reply to Re: Still feel bad » Deneb, posted by Dinah on February 6, 2008, at 15:39:50
Thanks for the advice Dinah. It's hard. My sister is abusive towards me one moment and the next moment she acts as if nothing happened and tries to make me laugh.
I usually start ignoring her, but then she just keeps trying and trying to make me laugh or talk to her until I give in because I don't hold grudges well.
I just get confused.
Posted by Kath on February 6, 2008, at 17:09:53
In reply to Re: Still feel bad, posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 15:32:38
Deneb,
Once again, I am appalled at your sister's behaviour & cruelty & manipulation.
I'm sorry & I hope I'm not breaking any rules, but I have to say what I think about this.
This is an abusive situation. Your sister is pulling out whatever she can think of to try and control you & make you feel badly about yourself. She is trying to shame you & make you feel ashamed & bad about yourself. She is threatening you - don't cross me or I won't help you in the future.
You will NOT end up needing her to look after you.
Your aim is to look after yourself.
I wonder if your mother hears the God-awful things your sister says?
Maybe your pdoc can help you come up with your own little 'arsenal' of methods to deflect your sister's poison.
I would VERY strongly suggest that you try to protect yourself by being polite to your sister in a detached way, but NOT discussing ANYthing with her. You do NOT owe her anything. She is not your parent although by golly she sure wants to act like it!!! There's an excellent book called "When I Say No I Feel Guilty". Maybe someone here knows who wrote it or you could find out online. Maybe your library has it. At the front it has the Assertive Bill of Rights. It's excellent. I'll see if I can find it to write them down for you.
Here are a few things to have in your mind that you can say to your sister.
"You have your life. I have mine. Please do not interfere with my life or give me your opinions about my life unless I ask you."
"Everyone has their own opinion."
"Sorry that you feel like that. I'm glad that you can lead your life in the way you want to. I will continue to lead my life the way I decide to."
"Please don't interfere in my life."
"This is NOT something that I am willing to discuss with you. I will discuss it with my parents. I will NOT discuss it with you."
Also, remember the "broken record" think I told you on Chat on time? You say what you say, she responds with something (probably putting you down, etc.) You repeat what you said, maybe in a slightly different way. She does her thing again, trying to goad you to answer. You repeat your same original thing again. Maybe slightly different.
I think the main thing is for you to absolutely reFUSE (inside yourself & in actual fact) to discuss any of this with her. It is NONE of her business. The fact that she'd tell you to give you her money is abominable.
I am SO glad you have your pdoc hun. And I so sorry your sister does whatever she can to undermine your sense of well-being & self-esteem. Please be very careful when dealing with her Deneb.
My Mom used to say to me "Least said, soonest mended". The less you are involved in conversations with your sister, the better for you.
I am so very sorry you have to go through this. You certainly do NOT deserve it hun.
Please listen to the wisdom of people discussing this with you. And PULEEEEEEZ do NOT even consider living with your sister.
At some point, you'll probably decide to live outside your family. Financially, it's quite possible you'll need to share a place to be able to afford it.
In the meantime, can you phone your pdoc if you need to? Can you see your pdoc at LEAST once a week?
Deneb, if you decide to drop your class, so be it. You can always go back to it. You're doing well coping with this. Please keep on letting us support you. And for Gosh Sakes - nobody here is condenming you, laughing at you or taunting you. That is coming from inside your circle, not outside it!! I suspect your sister, somewhere inside herself, envies something about you....perhaps your bravery at even thinking about doing things differently. Who knows. It doesn't really matter. But I hate to think that her treatment of you can shatter the positive affect of your pdoc appointment in a snap!
You GO Deneb!!!!!!!!!!!! It's YOUR life. It's yours to live the way you want to.
(((((((((((((((((((((you)))))))))))))))))))))))))
your bossy, but loyal supporter & friend, Kath
Posted by Kath on February 6, 2008, at 17:18:13
In reply to Re: Still feel bad, posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 17:02:17
Typically abusive behaviour.
An abusive partner will be mean, cruel, etc, then bring home flowers & say they're SO sorry.
I think Dinah had some good ideas about dealing with her.
You don't need to hold a grudge, but maybe you can point out, next time she tries to make you laugh, etc:
Sister, if you think about our most recent interaction, you might realize why I am NOT going to be interacting with you right now. I am willing to relate to you in a respectful adult to adult manner. I will respect you. I need you to behave respectfully with me.
Then smile (or not) and walk away.
I would say that the best way to teach her to treat you differently is to say something like the above, and then walk away. Each time she is mean or disrespectful, then tries to act like nothing has happened....point out "I need to be treated with respect. That hasn't been happening." I'm not even sure what I'd say then. Maybe Dinah has some ideas. She seems to be able to be WAY more detached about this than I am. Maybe because I am an only child & haven't had to deal with this.
hugs & hugs, Kath
Posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 17:20:31
In reply to Re: Thinking of killing self or running away » Deneb, posted by rskontos on February 6, 2008, at 8:44:20
The class is plant physiology and biochem. I'm not sure how effective online tutoring would be, but thanks for the offer. I can babblemail the course website to anyone who is curious about the course.
I know I need a tutor. My sister keeps insisting that I don't hire a tutor because it would be wasting money. She even asked me to hand her all the money in my account because I'm not responsible enough with it so she says.
I wish my family support me. I don't think I'll be doing very well if Babblers and my pdoc weren't there to support me. I love you all.
My pdoc told me it's not about getting an A or even passing the class. She says it's about trying my best. If I try my best and I still fail, I should still congratulate myself. It's about facing things instead of avoiding things.
My self confidence is fragile and my sister keeps tearing it apart, telling me my accomplishments are nothing.
I say I need a tutor to motivate me and give me structure, but then my sister says, what are you going to do, hire a tutor for every aspect of your life? My pdoc says I have to face the fact that I need structure and external rewards. I shouldn't label myself as childish or lazy, I should just learn to work around these traits as best as I can.
Posted by rskontos on February 6, 2008, at 17:22:55
In reply to Re: Still feel bad, posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 17:02:17
Deneb, I second Kath's comment. tell your sister that opinions are like a**holes everyone's got one. but your sister has got diarrhea of the mouth. She needs a sock in hers. You need to get a remote control and every time she opens her mouth try to click her off and pretend the batteries need changing. And start laughing. Because humor will get to her everytime. She won't know what to do.
I second Dinah's idea of moving out and working and going to school. I did not get my degree until later. You know Colonel Sanders did not invent Kentucky Fried Chicken until he was 60 years old. You are never too old to do whatever you want. Today Oprah had a lady that was 81 who could probably run circles around your family and she had just written a book and a movie was made of it.
Again, my offer of helping you with this class online stands...
rsk
Posted by rskontos on February 6, 2008, at 17:23:28
In reply to Re: Thinking of killing self or running away » rskontos, posted by Kath on February 6, 2008, at 16:42:11
Thanks Kath, after todays therapy I needed that :)
rsk
Posted by Kath on February 6, 2008, at 17:51:59
In reply to Re: Thinking of killing self or running away » rskontos, posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 17:20:31
Guess What Deneb?
I just thought of what I think is the best way to deal with your sister.
First, don't bring up anything about your life to her. Preferably do not talk about these things in front of her or in her hearing.
Second, if she buts in or starts her stuff, simply say,
"I am not willing to discuss this with you."her reply (for ex) 'oh listen to YOU - acting all huffy...'
"Perhaps you didn't hear me. I repeat. I am not willing to discuss this with you."
'you're just a lazy, money-waster'
"For the last time, I am not willing to discuss this with you." then walk away.
Keep talking Deneb. You've got support here.
luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on February 6, 2008, at 18:07:58
In reply to Re: Still feel bad, posted by rskontos on February 6, 2008, at 17:22:55
> Deneb, I second Kath's comment. tell your sister that opinions are like a**holes everyone's got one. but your sister has got diarrhea of the mouth. She needs a sock in hers. You need to get a remote control and every time she opens her mouth try to click her off and pretend the batteries need changing. And start laughing. Because humor will get to her everytime. She won't know what to do.
***********GOOD idea (I'm not sure that telling your sister that would go over well with your parents!! LOL but who knows??)
But the LAUGHING. THAT is so cool. Oh I could be such a bitch & come up with bitchy things but Dinah I think it was mentioned to let your sister mouth off & YOU be the calm, quiet, dignified one. It takes 2 to have a conversation going. Silence is probably the VERY BESTEST thing to deal out to her.******
> You know Colonel Sanders did not invent Kentucky Fried Chicken until he was 60 years old. You are never too old to do whatever you want.
*********THAT is a good thing to bring up if you're being bombaraded by your Mom (who is probably concerned about your best interests & possibly sorta old-fashioned & traditional).If you do break down & talk to your sister, I just thought of a good line.
"Just so that you know...I do not plan to hold your behaviour against you in the future."
And Deneb do NOT let ANYone NEAR your bankbook & bank account. You are an adult & guess what; you're behaving like one. Is this course the one where there were the labs & it caused you so much stress? I thought you were considering a long time ago dropping it & just doing the one? Or is this the second one. Are you just taking one course now?
Anyway, that's beside the point. If you want to go to work full-time (or even just work part time but NOT take any classes) that's your business.
You do have the option of deciding that if you stop school now & decide to do it again in the future, that you will pay for it yourself. And yes, you could do it just 1 course at a time.
hugs, Kath *****
Posted by TexasChic on February 6, 2008, at 18:23:39
In reply to Re: Still feel bad *trigger* » Deneb, posted by Dinah on February 6, 2008, at 0:39:27
I haven't read all the responses, but I felt the need to reply. People just don't fit into cookie cutter shapes like that! I went to a technical school at 28 and started my career as a graphic artist at 29. Nine years later, here I am, not rich or anything, but making more money than anybody else in my family, and more than I ever imagined! Do I sometimes wish I had done all this at 20 and then I'd be a decade ahead? Of course I do! But that's not the way it turned out. All I can do is make the best out of what life throws at me, and that's all you can do too (and frankly, what I've overcome is pretty damn impressive!) I know people with 4 year degrees that would die of envy at my job and income.
You are so intelligent, so interesting, and just such a great amazing person!!! You can't live your life trying to live up to other people's expectations. That's a sure pathway to failure. You can only be who you are. And that's a pretty damn cool chic in my opinion. I would totally hang out with you if we didn't live so far apart. I remember stuff you've said that has made me think, damn, she's so freaking cool! Like going to that Indian wedding, going to the babble party and staying in a hostel, or taking all those difficult courses in school! Not everyone can do that! Not even most people can do that! You have got to learn to accept what an amazing person you are! Your family probably loves you a lot, and is trying their best to help, but that doesn't mean they're right!!!! You know what I'm saying? I know its hard, and I mean I REALLY KNOW ITS HARD to not have the support you need and deserve. You've got to learn to find that strength within. It took me probably until my 30's to find it, but I have every confidence you can find it sooner. Its time for you to start searching for it!
I hope this helps, I really do feel passionate about this.
-T
Posted by Kath on February 6, 2008, at 18:28:56
In reply to Re: Still feel bad *trigger*, posted by TexasChic on February 6, 2008, at 18:23:39
What a wonderful, supportive post TC. Thanks & I agree with the things you said about Deneb.
Kath
PS - congratulations for overcoming all the obstacles in YOUR path & doing so well.
Posted by TexasChic on February 6, 2008, at 18:49:05
In reply to Re: Still feel bad *trigger* » TexasChic, posted by Kath on February 6, 2008, at 18:28:56
Thanks Kath. I really do think Deneb is an amazing person! Plant physiology and biochem? What the hell is that? And I think I'm a pretty intelligent person - but this chic is a BRAIN!
Deneb, you are way more intelligent than the average person. You have such an amazing life ahead of you if only you don't let your family bring you down. Everybody has their crosses to bear, this is yours. But you can get past this! And 5-10 years from now, you'll be wondering how you ever took all this stuff so seriously! You'll be like, I can't believe I let these things drag me down! You ROCK Deneb!!! You are my hero. Seriously! You put up with all kinds of crap and still manage to do impressive things and take chances. That's WAY beyond the average person.
-T
Posted by Gee on February 6, 2008, at 21:40:55
In reply to Re: Thinking of killing self or running away » rskontos, posted by Deneb on February 6, 2008, at 17:20:31
Hey Deneb,
I'm sorry things are so hard right now. It's hard having a sister who doesn't understand -- I know, I have one too. How much would living on your own cost? Can you get student loans to help? You were so excited about this class, what's changed? I know you can do it!!!
Posted by Deneb on February 9, 2008, at 2:12:22
In reply to Re: Thinking of killing self or running away » Deneb, posted by Gee on February 6, 2008, at 21:40:55
Thanks for all your support. It really helps to to know people care.
I think I'll stay at home. It's not too bad with my sister, as long as we don't get into talking about things.
Posted by Kath on February 9, 2008, at 17:17:23
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone, posted by Deneb on February 9, 2008, at 2:12:22
You're welcome Deneb.
Hopefully if you & your sister don't discuss things, it'll feel more peaceful for you.
Hugs, Kath
Posted by Racer on February 10, 2008, at 16:22:40
In reply to Thinking of killing self or running away, posted by Deneb on February 5, 2008, at 14:17:20
> I can't handle life. My family is ashamed of me. My sister puts me down, says I'm lazy.
Um, it may be that I'm just nuts, but it doesn't sound to me as though you "can't handle life" -- it sounds as though you have trouble handling your family! I saw a comedian once who said something kinda profound -- "The reason your parents are so good at pushing all your buttons is that they INSTALLED them!" Families have a way of triggering all sorts of things that the rest of the world can't reach. Finding a way to deal with that is arguably the essence of growing up.
>
> My sister says I'm the laziest person she's ever known.Bring her out here and introduce her to me. I have a hard enough time recognizing that "depression" is not a way to excuse laziness -- I'm sure she will recognize that it's just my bad character, rather than a psychiatric disorder. And then, when she says you're the laziest person she's ever known, you can say, "Ah, but what about Racer?"
>
> I don't want to try anymore. It's too hard. Everyone is ashamed of me. Life is too hard.Define "Everyone." That sounds a great deal like black and white thinking to me, kiddo -- reminds me of the first lines of "Pride and Prejudice."
>
> I think I want to kill myself or run away. I don't want to live at home anymore. My sister puts me down. She says I'm stupid and the A I got last semester isn't worth crap because I had two tutors and I've attempted that class several times.OK, them's fighting words where I come from. Deneb, I'm writing this because I feel so angry when I read that -- not particularly on your account, but just because this is a major trigger point for me.
Working with a tutor is a SIGN OF INTELLIGENCE, it's a SIGN of being a SUCCESSFUL student -- it's a sign that someone is working effectively to do well in a class. When I hear someone say that the resulting grade is somehow not genuine, I see red -- that just strikes me as mean-spirited in the extreme, as well as ignorant, and many other things I won't write here. In fact, I believe that you would be doing much better in this class if you had signed up for tutoring again.
In fact, Deneb, the perspective from where I sit shows your sister in an unflattering light. It sounds to me as though she is sabotaging you, and setting you up for failure. I wonder if that's a pattern in your life, having your sister ridicule you and put up obstacles so that she can continue to insult you? If so, I'm profoundly sorry that it's happened to you, and I'm angry with that behavior on her part.
I've worked hard the past couple of years to learn to define and defend my boundaries, and it's hardest of all with my family. A big part of the problem is that families develop dynamics which take on a life of their own, and having those patterns of behavior change can be frightening for all concerned. When my behavior changes, when I manage to defend my boundaries successfully, members of my family often push back until they find a crack in my defenses. It's painful for me, and it leads to a lot of those therapy sessions when I cry and ask what the point is.
The point is that it gets easier over time, with practice.
I'll tell you my interpretation of what I've been told: There's a sort of dance that we learn as we grow up, that the whole family participates in. We all know our steps in this dance. You can't change anyone else, in action, belief, or behavior patterns; you can only change yourself, which you've worked hard on. When you change your own steps in the dance, others don't get the reactions they've come to rely on, they try to find their familiar partner in the dance, but you're not where they expect to find you, and that's frightening for them, sets them off balance, forces them to learn a new set of steps themselves.
It sounds as though your sister is trying to herd you back into the familiar patterns of a dance you've worked hard to get out of. It sounds as though she's trying to maintain her own steps, rather than adapt and change to partner you in a healthier dance.
It's hard, Deneb, and it hurts, and in a better world we would none of us have to deal with it. In this best of all possible worlds, this is what we have. It doesn't mean we can't strive to become healthier, to learn to protect ourselves from the unkindness of others.
My final thought for you: have you ever considered why it is that the people who are supposed to love us the most can be the least supportive and most unkind to us?
This is the end of the thread.
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