![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 61. Go back in thread:
Posted by AuntieMel on August 26, 2004, at 22:51:20
In reply to B2, posted by Scott in Vermont on August 26, 2004, at 15:42:35
What ARE you 2 talking about? Huh? You can't do anything like this! You will leave too many behind out here that depend on you. Is this the last act of selfishness?
I was there about a year ago. Selfishly wanting to end my own pain. I didn't care a whit about those left behind. It was all about me.
So, I drank. And I don't mean a little, I was trying for death by alcohol poisoning. And I almost made it. Many hours after the last drink my blood alc level was still over .3
The family never knew it was on purpose. They knew it was of my depressed state, but they never knew how bad it was.
Sometime after I got less fuzzy I could see their faces around me. And for the first time it was clear that they cared. When I think of what that would have done to my kids......
And along the way I started reading babble. And I could see that I wasn't alone. That gave me the first hope I felt in years.
And you two were part of what I was reading.
And I am alive.
So, think of the impact that you have made on the lives of my kids and then tell me you have nothing to live for.
Posted by shortelise on August 27, 2004, at 0:22:18
In reply to B2, posted by Scott in Vermont on August 26, 2004, at 15:42:35
You could take that cash and go live on the beach in Turkey (or Belize, or Mexico).
Or take a train to Tucson.
Or ride a bike to the opposite end of the country.
Or do whatever you want.
We only get one life.
ShortE (who doesn't know you at all)
Posted by JenStar on August 27, 2004, at 0:32:23
In reply to Re: SiV, posted by B2chica on August 26, 2004, at 16:55:32
B2,
you are not a loser. It makes me sad to hear you say that about yourself.When I first started reading the boards, I slowly formed impressions about various posters as I read their notes and became familiar with their styles.
I noticed right away that despite the painful posts you wrote about yourself, you were always there for others with extremely heartfelt supportive messages. I thought that was really cool and amazing of you.
I don't know exactly what help I can offer but I want to be here like you are here for everyone else.
Please be nice to yourself. You are a nice person!
Please stop with the sleeping pills. Please get some help. It might be your bipolar raging out, even if it seems like it's not. I'm not a doctor and I don't know you IRL, but I can tell that you need some help. Please love yourself enough to get it, even if it's calling 911 or going to a hospital or making an emergency call to your T. Or if that's too drastic and your words are stronger than your emotions, then talk with your hubby or someone trusted.
Scott, the same goes for you! I don't know you but anyone who's a friend of B2's is cool in my book. (How could someone nice like her pick any friends who are special?) Please take care of yourself too. No logging trucks (or cabs, or those horrid scooters that the teenagers drive around these days.)
Take care of yourself. You are worth it.
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on August 27, 2004, at 0:34:22
In reply to you're not a loser! (neither of you!) » B2chica, posted by JenStar on August 27, 2004, at 0:32:23
whoops, my sentence should have read:
(How could someone nice like her pick any friends who are NOT special?)
Sorry. It's late and my fingers and mind aren't quite connecting.
JS
> B2,
> you are not a loser. It makes me sad to hear you say that about yourself.
>
> When I first started reading the boards, I slowly formed impressions about various posters as I read their notes and became familiar with their styles.
>
> I noticed right away that despite the painful posts you wrote about yourself, you were always there for others with extremely heartfelt supportive messages. I thought that was really cool and amazing of you.
>
> I don't know exactly what help I can offer but I want to be here like you are here for everyone else.
>
> Please be nice to yourself. You are a nice person!
>
> Please stop with the sleeping pills. Please get some help. It might be your bipolar raging out, even if it seems like it's not. I'm not a doctor and I don't know you IRL, but I can tell that you need some help. Please love yourself enough to get it, even if it's calling 911 or going to a hospital or making an emergency call to your T. Or if that's too drastic and your words are stronger than your emotions, then talk with your hubby or someone trusted.
>
> Scott, the same goes for you! I don't know you but anyone who's a friend of B2's is cool in my book. (How could someone nice like her pick any friends who are special?) Please take care of yourself too. No logging trucks (or cabs, or those horrid scooters that the teenagers drive around these days.)
>
> Take care of yourself. You are worth it.
>
> JenStar
>
>
>
Posted by SAW on August 27, 2004, at 2:43:30
In reply to heartbreak - b2 and scott, posted by octopusprime on August 26, 2004, at 16:47:58
Scott and B2
The pain from both of your posts have left me feeling very blessed (as incongruous as that may sound). I so often think that nobody - truly nobody - can ever possibly understand MY pain, MY hurt, MY fears, MY feelings - MY .. MY .. MINE .. ME .. ME .. ME.. !!
And then I read of someone elses pain that is so much worse than mine right now and I realise how lucky I am to have climbed into my baby son's cot with two bottles of sleeping pills and a couple of bottles of wine and swallowing the lot while tears dropped on his pillow and the soft, sweet baby smell faded as my eyes closed, and that I SURVIVED!
God Bless you both, you are unique, you are so special.
Sabrina
Posted by tofuemmy on August 27, 2004, at 6:25:03
In reply to B2, posted by Scott in Vermont on August 26, 2004, at 15:42:35
This was posted by shadows721 earlier this year, and I saved it because I knew I'd need it someday and I have (thank you!). Maybe you guys need it now?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you thought about making a list about reasons to live? If you die, then you never get to do the following again -feel your heart beating
feel the sun and the wind on your face
feel an embrace
pet a loving animal
enjoy a delicious meal
enjoy a good movie
read a good novel
feel all emotions
tour a new place
feel your breath go in and out
feel the midst and power of the ocean
give yourself a second chance
learn something new
love someone
go into a forest and feel the healing part of
nature
discover new things about yourself
help someone else
touch another life
feel rain
feel a kiss on your cheek
feel the water run down your body in a shower
tell people about yourselfSuicide steals hope. It steals our body. It steals feelings. It creates a fantasy of a no more problem world. It takes away the body in which our spirit is housed. This is your body. This is your heart. This is your brain. These are your thoughts. Look at each part of your physical self and look at all the details. Start from your bottom of your body and go all the way up. This is yours and only yours. You are beautifully unique.
The spirit is there too. There is a spirit deep within your eyes. It's the part of you that isn't physical. It's there. It's your energy force that surrounds your body and runs through every cell of your being. It's that force that you can take to touch someone else without physically touching another. It's like a candle flame. It's light is lit at all times deep within you. It is the part of self called you. There is no other, nor will there ever be anyone like you. You have the power to change things.
Perhaps, this is what you really fear is your power. It is like that of being in the bubble, before turning into a butterfly. Maybe, you haven't given yourself a chance to test your power to receive all that you can from your life.
You have a life and only you can tell it. No one will know you if you murder yourself. You have a voice to use. Embrace it and get the help you deserve as the beautiful being you uniquely are.
You are seeing only the darkness and not the beautiful flame that is housed in your being.
Don't give up and never give into the urges. Tomorrows will never come. Chances are never given. Don't give in to the NEVER and give into the spirit to live despite the odds. Stand up and say deep within your being, "I deserve to live."
--------------------------------------------------------------------Again, thank you Shadows. Your words truly have helped me.
With hope for you both, emmy
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 9:21:53
In reply to What the HEY?, posted by AuntieMel on August 26, 2004, at 22:51:20
I agree AuntieMel, they've made a difference in my life too, B2chica was one of the first people who responded to me when I was in distress and We need you guys!!! If you guys keep disappearing there's less hope left for us, so think about that. This board has saved my sanity. What was left of it, in any case. Where are you two????
Posted by gardenergirl on August 27, 2004, at 9:26:58
In reply to B2 Scott (sorta from Shadows.....by way of Emmy), posted by tofuemmy on August 27, 2004, at 6:25:03
First let me say, Emmy thanks for posting this from Shadows. It's beautiful.
To B2C and Scott:
I read your posts, and felt so sad. Your pain comes through so strongly. I wanted to write something in response, but it really left me kind of speechless. I'm grateful to shadows and emmy for saying something so eloquent, so full of spirit and wisdom. I have nothing to add to it, but I wanted you both to know that I hear, i care, and I'm here.Please be here too.
gg
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 9:28:11
In reply to Re: B2, posted by shortelise on August 27, 2004, at 0:22:18
ShortE is right. Why settle all your affairs, maybe for the first time ever, then abandon the fruits of your labour? Enjoy what you earned.. your delight in your new purpose is scary. Don't leave everything for someone else, even though you do love her. If you love her don't hurt yourself.. that's not love. How will she ever get over it if you hurt yourself and succeed permanently? She can never talk to you and comfort you, you will never be able to comfort the pain you cause her by doing away with yourself... she'll be changed forever, whether you see that right now or not. You do matter Scott, as much dead as alive. Dying will not rid the world of you, it'll only give the world sadder memories. So there.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 9:36:23
In reply to B2 Scott (sorta from Shadows.....by way of Emmy), posted by tofuemmy on August 27, 2004, at 6:25:03
I like tofuemmy's post but I feel like when I'm down in despair (and Scott's sounding past that and into the hopeful phase of committing S, this is very bad news, Scott quit that): the body doesn't matter, the soul doesn't matter, at least that's what the mind thinks. Feeling the water on your skin in the shower is nothing. The breeze, nothing. Colours, nothing. I don't know what makes anything matter then. Just hope maybe. I don't know where we get that. Maybe it's different for everyone.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:53:37
In reply to B2, posted by Scott in Vermont on August 26, 2004, at 15:42:35
Are you so busy tying up loose ends that you're no longer reading the boards? This is hurting my feelings. Where are you?!?!?!?!
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:55:15
In reply to SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:53:37
This is hurting me. Stop it.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:55:50
In reply to Re: SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT: SCOTT, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:55:15
Answer please, over here.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 27, 2004, at 11:24:21
In reply to Re: SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT: SCOTT, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:55:50
Take a breath. Please. WE'VE got to stay calm if we are to help.
And [badwordhere] I'm leaving in a bit to go away for the weekend.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 27, 2004, at 11:34:31
In reply to B2, posted by Scott in Vermont on August 26, 2004, at 15:42:35
The way I read things the two of you don't have immediate, right this minute, plans. Good. I'm probably away from the computer for the weekend and I would like a chance to discuss your value further before you do anything.
Promise you'll wait 'till I get back and we can talk more.
Both of you have helped me immensely in the past.
So, for now, don't follow your feelings. USE YOUR BRAINS instead. If you *think* you well see that a lot of people will be hurt if you leave. Very hurt. Remember those you rely on when in stress?? Well, they rely on you, too.
TTFN
Mel
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 27, 2004, at 12:25:32
In reply to B2 Scott (sorta from Shadows.....by way of Emmy), posted by tofuemmy on August 27, 2004, at 6:25:03
Posted by zenhussy on August 27, 2004, at 13:28:45
In reply to Re: SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT: SCOTT, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 10:55:15
> This is hurting me. Stop it.
From the FAQ http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#suicidal :
How should I respond to a poster who's suicidal?
To quote from below, this is a toughie. I think this is a good discussion of the issues, however:I think all we can do is be supportive of that person with words. Having been in similar situations in the past, I've found that type of support helps me hang on until I can get real help.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/232914.htmlMixed bag, I'm afraid. Many will actually be crying out for attention while others are crying wolf. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes, and there lies the rub. When do we take it seriously enough to act upon someone's statements? I have seen it go both ways. Personally, I would err on the side of caution, and would reach out to someone with suicidal ideations posted (even in veiled terms) on this board.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/232994.htmlI feel like all I *can* say to support someone here who is suicidal is "Go get help." I don't think this board is equipped to do more than that. Mostly, I think people can share their struggles with suicidal feelings and get a lot of support here, but it will never be the kind of support that will keep them safe when they cannot keep themselves safe. But I think sometimes the crying out process can be very frustrating to others if the person rejects help or returns in a better mood as though nothing happened. All of which can cause serious compassion fatigue, I think. And I don't necessarily judge anyone who does any of those things as a bad person or anything, and I tend to see this kind of behavior as a symptom of how distressed they really must be, which breaks my heart! But the behavior also does have the potential to anger me, maybe because it seriously pushes my own helplessness buttons. And break my heart though it might, I might have to withdraw from a discussion if this happens because I can't let my own inner resources be depleted.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233022.htmlI guess I've always thought, if not here then where? Obviously if someone is in imminent danger, they should seek real life help. But sometimes maybe they need a bit of a reality check, or validation, or something that they should do that. I know that I would be hesitant to present myself at my emergency room door, no matter what my condition, because I would have this desire not to make a big fuss. As far as [crying wolf] is concerned, it's part of the illness just as much as suicide attempts are. Just because something feels manipulative doesn't mean the attempt is to manipulate. Or rather, I accept Marsha Linehan's view of suicidal behaviors. It may be the only way a person knows of asking for what they want or need. My own decision about what to do to protect myself is to realize my limitations. There are only a very few people here who I have any possibility of physically helping. And on a forum like this, suicidal crises will occur from time to time. It's scary because I would hate to say anything that might make matters worse. But I have absolutely no expectations that anything I say could make matters better. I just don't have that power. And not saying anything is an action as well. So, since I wish to participate here, I just have to hope for the best, but remove myself from it a bit emotionally. Accept my impotence. Even find safety in my impotence. Extend a hand, maybe, but feel no responsibility if it isn't taken. That's my own way of making it possible to participate here. Others have their own ways.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233048.htmlSpeaking from my own experience of chronic suicidal ideation, and the times I've posted here about wanting to die, what I want back is an acknowledgement that other people feel that way too and have survived, and reminders that it is probably a temporary situation (that it feels so intense). And, some people express caring thoughts and wishes, and that helps too. As someone else said, one gets a feel on the board for the real deal sometimes. And at that time the only thing I'd say is "go get help in real time." I also like the term "compassion fatigue" because that is a real phenomenon that makes me look at suicidal messages very cautiously.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233113.htmlThis is a toughie. Everyone has weighed in with quite thoughtful responses. For some this is it. This is their last cry for help and for those posters who are mentally and emotionally up to supporting a suicidal poster then great. But to expect miracles to occur if someone is intent on killing themselves is just draining to the entire community. Those that are not up to supporting suicidal posters need to recognize their own needs and take care of themselves. Yes it can bring up feelings of helplessness, anger or resentment but those feelings can be dealt with in another thread or in e-mail or through another avenue of support. No one is forced to read any threads on this board. And if suicidal posters are too triggering then avoid those posts at all costs. If one is in the position to offer up support to a suicidal poster then they can only type in information. Many here have been suicidal just once and others have suicidal thoughts daily but just have learned not to act on them. There is a plethora of sympathy and empathy for being in that horrible place where death seems like the correct and only answer. The people who post to suicidal posters are trying to bring a glimmer of light back into the darkness that has closed in on one of us.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233185.htmlFor myself, I might just not reply. Especially if I see others who are replying supportively. I just bow myself out of it because that might be what I need to do. But I agree, it would not, IMHO, be appropriate to reply angrily, even if this is how I felt. I have seen people, a couple of times, however, once the crisis seemed over, post frankly, but supportively, with people about the frustration of wanting to help but feeling like they are both asking for help and pushing it away, and that other people weren't sure what to do about that. But that is different than reacting angrily to posts.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233241.htmlWe all are entitled to feel as we feel. Some people get angry, some get reminded of previous losses we have endured and get very sad, others still when faced with a truly pained suicidal post are forced to face that darkness within themselves. Some of us have attempted suicide and when reading about another in that deep dark hopeless crushing place it can be too triggering to one's own memories of their experiences.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030604/msgs/233307.htmlSusan,
Perhaps looking at how your involvement here is affecting you might be useful for your own well being.
Two excerpts from my posts are in the above faq about how to respond to a poster who is suicidal.
I would amend my words now as I've watched too many suicides play out on this board to engage in it any longer.
Dr. Hsiung is the final authority as to what happens on his board. If someone pleads for help and Dr. Hsiung doesn't contact the ISP in time or what have you it falls on his shoulders.
NEVER EVER should any poster here feel responsible for the life of another!!!!!!!!!
If that is the case then there is something terribly wrong with the support environment that has been crafted here. Take up your concerns with the administration.
Take care of yourself first as nobody else here is going to step in and do that for you............just as no on can step in for Scott or B2C.
I wish you peace and hope you contact your own support team so that you are well taken care of.
--zh
Posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 13:50:02
In reply to Re: Susan47 please read, posted by zenhussy on August 27, 2004, at 13:28:45
ZH,
I'm impressed. That was an incredible post. Everyone should read it.
Posted by zenhussy on August 27, 2004, at 13:58:46
In reply to Re: Susan47 please read » zenhussy, posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 13:50:02
> ZH,
>
> I'm impressed. That was an incredible post. Everyone should read it.Scott,
I just reposted the FAQ from a thread a year ago where posters talked about how to deal with suicidal posters. It was gathered up into the FAQ by Dr. Hsiung.
I tend to forget just how varied we all are in our responses to these situations.
I thought it might help some here to read these words from posters who had been on the site for years and seen the ups and downs of suicidal postings as Dr. Hsiung's civility rules morphed and allowed for more restricted expression.
That said.............I still care about you you knucklehead!! I don't have any pithy answers or suggestions for you other than to listen to TofuEmmy as she is a wise soycube.
Kindly and with respect for your choices,
--zh
Posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 14:49:38
In reply to Re: can't stop me from caring you knucklehead = ) » Scott in Vermont, posted by zenhussy on August 27, 2004, at 13:58:46
I've read all the responses. All of them. I wish I had the time to respond to them individually. It would take me a couple of hours, and I don't have that kind of time (I only do this at work, but if Dr Bob calls my ISP, that's going to change, and I'll get fired, and well, a lot of things will change after that) but anyway, I'm fragmented into many parts now. Some parts of me want to scream because I don't WANT anyone to care. STOP CARING, DAMN YOU! But other parts of me are so deeply moved that I have had an impact on other people, that my words have meant something to people... that's powerful. But then I turn the corner to guilt... gahhh... my old "friend" guilt... many emotions swim and churn. Fear is a major one right now. I forgot about the whole ISP contact thing. My ISP is my employer. If Dr Bob calls my employer, my timeline for "whatever" will become so accelerated that I won't have any idea what will happen, and really, my job is what has kept me afloat this long because I really like my job and my job provides me with an income that allows me to live around here. So hey, Dr Bob, if you're reading this, put the phone down, I'll be good. Really. I was kidding.
You know, this sucks. I've gone from fear to terror. I can't lose my job. I can't. I just got a child support order in the mail yesterday. If I get fired and I can't pay the order I'll lose my hunting licence and I'll lose my drivers licence and I'll have to move and I could get thrown in jail if I don't get a job soon enough and there's no way I'll get a job in Communications in Vermont making what I'm making right now because the only other games in town are Verizon and Adelphia, and I won't work for either one of them for ethical reasons. So I guess it's back to the saw mill. Hello $7 an hour and no benefits. Not that there is anything wrong with that at all. I had a lot of pride in my work when I was at the mill. But it's not a salary that provides a living wage when you're giving $1,000 a month to someone else.
This sucks. This really sucks. So ZH, when you said Dr Bob knows about what's going on here, what exactly did you mean by that anyway? Because if my ISP (re: my employer) is notified about my posts on Babble... shoot, if I was ever going to use an uncivil phrase here, this would be the moment.
I'm going to go have a cigarette.
- Scott (who's not very happy about having the power of decision taken out of my hands once again)
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:32:33
In reply to Re: can't stop me from caring you knucklehead = ), posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 14:49:38
Scott,
"So hey, Dr Bob, if you're reading this, put the phone down, I'll be good. Really. I was kidding"Are you lying? I hope not.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:40:30
In reply to Re: can't stop me from caring you knucklehead = ) » Scott in Vermont, posted by zenhussy on August 27, 2004, at 13:58:46
Zenhussy,
Thank you for putting up the post. I was reading yours as well, and got all achy in my bones. It feels like you're slapping my hands. So I'll never tell anyone on here again they're hurting me. I can see that wasn't fair; I wasn't thinking about being fair.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:46:48
In reply to Re: can't stop me from caring you knucklehead = ), posted by Scott in Vermont on August 27, 2004, at 14:49:38
Posting in this very public place was also a decision you made. In my opinion, it was a good one.
Posted by Jai Narayan on August 27, 2004, at 15:50:13
In reply to For Scott, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:46:48
Susan You sound real strong and clear. I like that.
I am happy that Scott cares about about his job and the child's support. That's a good sign.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:57:44
In reply to Susan great reply...., posted by Jai Narayan on August 27, 2004, at 15:50:13
I have lousy replies, and that's okay. Someday I may be doing what Scott's doing today. He doesn't like that I drew attention to his situation; but he *did* post here after all and there was a reason for that, so if I embarrassed him, oh well. Those are the risks you take here. He'll do what he does and I did what I did. I'm embarrassed sometimes too. That's life. But thanks for being supportive, that was very nice of you. I think it's important to be honest to myself no matter what anybody else thinks; they can give input and that's welcome. So I'll always sound strong, no matter how wrong I'll be later.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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