![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Camille Dumont on March 26, 2004, at 9:35:14
So I've always been shy, withdrawn ... I run away from conflic ... when people scream at each other, I feel like hiding in a closet ... like hurting myself even when people are not angry at me.
Supposedly its something with avoidant PD ... but anyway ... I've always had violent thoughts and urgers which bothered me because they were not part of the "me" I thought I was. I've always been so anti-violence ... preferring to endure it rather than to hurt others.
But it turns out one of my ratties was sick ... it was a pituitary tumor (causes paralysis and eventually death) and nothing more could be done ... and one night I came home to find her on her back ... she was drooling unable to eat / drink or even to use her litter anymore.
It was late, vet was closed ... there is a 24h vet hosp but I knew I wouldn't have the guts to bring her there ... I knew I'd change my mind before reaching the place so I decided to kill her myself.
I started by giving her a seroquel pounded with booze and some sugar ... and she eventuall fell in a deep sleep. I put a bag over her head and tied it there and the eventually passed away.
But it was so strange and horrible at the same time. I was the one holding the bag and in the end her little body started to shiver ... I guess it was the brain fighting the lack of oxygen. It was so unreal ... its as though it wasn't me holding the bag .. it wasn't me killing her. I mean I don't think she suffered butI still feel so disgusted at myself. Like I betrayed her ... like I'm a murderer.
Its been over a week and I can still feel her shivering body in my hand. And I can't help but be afraid that I just discovered some really sick side of myself ... and be afraid that if I can kill an animal ... will I ever snap at someone and hurt them ... will that cold part of me take over and hurt people?
I feel so sub-human right now. Has anybody ever had similar experiences? Does the guilt ever go away?
Posted by tabitha on March 26, 2004, at 10:13:57
In reply to A side of myself that scares me, posted by Camille Dumont on March 26, 2004, at 9:35:14
Oh that sounds so distressing. Just remind yourself she was sick, it was a merciful death. If the vet had done it, it would be an injection. No need to be afraid of yourself, you were just taking final care of a well-loved pet. Maybe you can have a little funeral ritual for her, focus on some of the good memories for a time, and start grieving the loss of your little rat.
Posted by kid47 on March 26, 2004, at 10:36:33
In reply to A side of myself that scares me, posted by Camille Dumont on March 26, 2004, at 9:35:14
I don't know. To me it sounds like an ultimate act of selfless love. Maybe it doesn't feel like it but I think what you did was put your beloved pets situation above all else-even your obvious love for him. I would be inclined to admire your strength and dedication doing what must have been a heart wrenching act to save your pet from needless suffering, fear and misery. I hope you feel better soon.
kid
Posted by nicky847 on March 26, 2004, at 10:54:50
In reply to Re: A side of myself that scares me » Camille Dumont, posted by kid47 on March 26, 2004, at 10:36:33
Camille-
The fact that you are so shaken up by it should tell you something..you didnt enjoy it..in fact it really really bothered you...thousands of people put pets to sleep out of inconvenience....yours was a choice made out of love and a very difficult one so know that to me it sounds like you are a very caring person and should not be alarmed by making the choice you did...
nick
> I don't know. To me it sounds like an ultimate act of selfless love. Maybe it doesn't feel like it but I think what you did was put your beloved pets situation above all else-even your obvious love for him. I would be inclined to admire your strength and dedication doing what must have been a heart wrenching act to save your pet from needless suffering, fear and misery. I hope you feel better soon.
>
> kid
Posted by Elle2021 on March 27, 2004, at 1:04:18
In reply to A side of myself that scares me, posted by Camille Dumont on March 26, 2004, at 9:35:14
Camille,
I can't describe how upset I am after reading your post. I'm ready to cry. I wish that you wouldn't have described in detail what you did.
Elle
Posted by fayeroe on March 27, 2004, at 10:22:42
In reply to A side of myself that scares me, posted by Camille Dumont on March 26, 2004, at 9:35:14
You were doing what was best at that moment. You relieved your pet's suffering by taking on the challenge of helping her. And believe me, it was a challenge. I've been in a position where I've had to do something that I didn't want to do but knew it was best for the animal. And aren't we their caretakers and don't we take on that obligation when we take them into our hearts? I'm sorry that you had to do this, but you did the right thing. Best.
Posted by Camille Dumont on March 27, 2004, at 10:39:26
In reply to Re: A side of myself that scares me » Camille Dumont, posted by Elle2021 on March 27, 2004, at 1:04:18
I'm sorry that I hurt you ... I should have posted a warning but now I can't seem to be able to edit the post ...
Again, I'm sorry, my intent was to express what happened and how it made me feel ... not to hurt others.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 27, 2004, at 13:37:46
In reply to mea culpa, posted by Camille Dumont on March 27, 2004, at 10:39:26
Camille,
I'm sorry you had to go through that. I have to admit, I had a similar experience as Elle. But I also worry about you. Such an experience might be something to trigger PTSD. Please give yourself some extra tender care right now and monitor for signs that it is affecting you adversely. Hopefully it will not, but just in case...I'm okay with my reaction, really, so please do not feel responsible. I just had to wait a day to post, as I am pretty sensitive and needed to get some space first.
Take care, and I am sorry for your loss. Pets are so special.
gg
Posted by 64Bowtie on March 27, 2004, at 14:06:59
In reply to A side of myself that scares me, posted by Camille Dumont on March 26, 2004, at 9:35:14
> So I've always been shy, withdrawn ... I run away from conflic ... when people scream at each other, I feel like hiding in a closet ... like hurting myself even when people are not angry at me.
>
<<<Violence, and coercion next-mostly, must be erradicated from the family, completely. This is my highest order mission. This is why I am a "broken-record" about harnessing our impulses, specifically the urge to overcome and avoid dissatisfaction.Screaming at one another is absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, harmful and must be stopped, now, no excuses. No more, "Its so hard to change...(whine whine)!" True, screaming isn't "drawing blood". That's violence. After coercion of screaming, statistically comes "blood letting" violence. Wanna have that memory? I don't!
My dear, shy? How about wise? Stay away from violence and coercion to stay alive! We have 20 odd other conflicts each and every day to deal with, that probably have no elements of violence and coercion.
Battered women and children who seek my counseling, tell me stories that tear out my heart. I work to get them away from the danger and then refocus them on the process of living. This includes "normal" impulse management and conflict resolution practices.
I also do something I can't do here at Babble. I get a "personal contract" with clear guidelines, plans and goals. 100% report that they have never been given this much responsibility and respect at the same time. They volunteer that they feel my acceptance for them as a human being, sometimes for the first time in their lives.
Rod
Posted by Poet on March 27, 2004, at 14:59:31
In reply to A side of myself that scares me, posted by Camille Dumont on March 26, 2004, at 9:35:14
Camille,
What you did for your rat was a gentle, loving way to help end her suffering. You didn't kill her- you just made her passing less painful for her.
One of my diabetic cats went into a coma and I rushed him to the vet, but he ended up being put to sleep. I think your choice to end your rat's suffering was very brave.
My other cat is doing well on his insulin, but if he starts to fail, I've all ready decided to ease his pain myself.
Take care. Give your other ratties special attention, they'll miss her too.
Poet
Posted by 64Bowtie on March 27, 2004, at 15:52:28
In reply to Re: A side of myself that scares me, posted by Poet on March 27, 2004, at 14:59:31
Posted by Camille Dumont on March 27, 2004, at 15:55:41
In reply to Re: A side of myself that scares me, posted by Poet on March 27, 2004, at 14:59:31
Thanks everybody for your gentle words. In a way I guess I'm ok with the thought of helping her pass ... like getting her to the vet, like taking care of her its sort of part of the deal with animal ownership. I just can't fathom how vets and people at hs can do somethign like that on a daily basis can manage.
I was also afraid because with rats, you can't give injections so some vets do an intracardiac injection and refuse to gas them first ... and sometimes they miss and the stuff ends up in lungs or some other organs so their death is very painfull.
I guess in a way it freaked me that I could actually do it ... while it happened, I felt like stopping maybe oh ... 100 times.
Its so strange that for someone who has been and still sometimes is very much suicidal, stopping the suffering of an animal would be so hard. I mean why was it so hard to convince me to apply the same rationale that I did for myself when I wanted to die? I don't know, perhaps its because the reason I got rats in the first place was to give me something to hold on to when I felt suicidal.
I still haven't been able to bury her ... the ground is still too frozen here but hopefully when that is done I will feel better about it. Right now its just eery ... I see her casket in my freezer every time I open it ... sort of freaky. In a way it makes me feel the same as when my neighbor comitted suicide. I didn't really know him but it freaked me every time I passed beside his appartment.
Posted by EmmyS on March 28, 2004, at 21:55:41
In reply to Re: A side of myself that scares me, posted by Poet on March 27, 2004, at 14:59:31
Before you try to "ease his pain" yourself (I'm not going to try to convince you what a bad idea this is since it could go wrong 1,000 ways, and cause your cat tremendous suffering, and it's illegal...)
call around to area vets and shelters. Some will send someone out to your home to inject the cat there while lying peacefully in your lap. My friend had her dog put to sleep in the back yard under his favorite tree with all his best human pals around him.
Emmy
Posted by Elle2021 on March 29, 2004, at 4:14:14
In reply to Re: A side of myself that scares me » Poet, posted by EmmyS on March 28, 2004, at 21:55:41
Poet,
I know in the end the decision will be yours as to what you decide to do with your cat. But, I hope you will think about what Emmy said. I think she has a good point. There are tons of things that could go wrong and cause your cat a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering. I know it's difficult to take them into the vet's office and have them put down...I've been there too. But, if you think about it, it's pretty quick and painless for them. It's the least we can do for our pets who have given us so much support and provided such happiness for us over the years. I hope things turn out well for you and your cat.
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on March 29, 2004, at 4:53:48
In reply to Re: A side of myself that scares me, posted by Camille Dumont on March 27, 2004, at 15:55:41
Camille,
I want to write to you and let you know a couple of things. First off, your post struck a nerve in me. I have a very soft spot for animals. I still do not agree with what you did. However, I believe that some of my posts to you may have been somewhat harsh. I'm sorry for that. I noticed that you haven't posted for a couple of days. I hope that everything is well with you and that I am not the reason for your suspended posting. Will you please let me know that you are okay?
Elle
Posted by Camille Dumont on March 29, 2004, at 9:01:10
In reply to To Camille, posted by Elle2021 on March 29, 2004, at 4:53:48
I'm ok ... the meds and my supposed PD are doing a great job of making me not much care about other's opinion recently.
As crazy as it may sound I'm a total softy for animals as well. You have no idea what mental images and internal dialogue I had to bring up to summon the resolve to go ahead with it. Perhaps it will be the only time in my life that I'll be able to say that depers. was usefull for something.
Unfortunately, many people do not know how small rodents are put down by the vet while you are not there.
The veins in the body of a rat are extremely small and its near-impossible to catch one and do an intravenous injection like they do for most pet euthanasia. What they have to do is an intracardiac injection (directly into the heart). If the person does it properly ... the only pain is the needle ... which, incidentally, compared to a rats body is about like you getting injected with something the diameter of one of your finger ... not nice but the medicine stops the heart and its very quick.
However, the person misses and the liquid ends up somewhere else like the lungs, the liver or even the belly ... which means a much longer and painfull death.
Some will use gas first and then do the injection ... but not all vets ... and not all will let you stay with your pet and you cannot hold him/her until the end.
I didn't want to go to the 24h hosp because I don't know them and I didn't want to end up with some vet who thinks that small rodents are "worthless" or "disposable" or simply "vermin" ... like many are. My regular vet is a darling ... I would have trusted her but it would have meant waiting 10 hours until they opened. My baby did not deserve 10 hours of struggling just to breathe.
I did for her what I would have wanted for my should the roles have been reversed. She fell assleep ... and she didn't struggle or fight it.
Going to a vet is always preferable but not always doable unfortunately. But if you can, by all means go to a vet ... it will leave you less scarred on the inside.
I just hope I didn't upset someone too much ... didn't give flashbacks or SI triggers. Thats all.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 29, 2004, at 17:49:54
In reply to Re: To Camille, posted by Camille Dumont on March 29, 2004, at 9:01:10
I think that is called a mercy killing of an animal. You have no reason to be sorry you did it. To let it suffer would have been wrong. BTW, SORRY for the loss of your dear pet I hope you know the story of the Rainbow Bridge..If not its at www.petloss.com
Posted by Camille Dumont on March 29, 2004, at 21:52:38
In reply to Re: To Camille, posted by Fallen4myT on March 29, 2004, at 17:49:54
Yes, I know about the bridge ... when you have rats, given their short lives, its something to hold on to.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 29, 2004, at 22:00:10
In reply to Re: To Camille, posted by Camille Dumont on March 29, 2004, at 21:52:38
I have cats a dog and had hamsters and I KNOW they have kinda short lives...I am really so sorry for your loss and know it hurts. For what it is worth, youre not going to hurt people or any of your fears you posted....I don't know if anyone saw your pain in all this...I didnt read all the replies but I know you hurt and loved your pet and are a good person and I would not be afraid of you at all...your one post sounded sooo self-recriminating
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.