![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 233. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by geri122 on November 26, 2003, at 15:09:47
Im not afraid.. i often wonder. I hear people talking about how they want to do everything possible before they die. Why? after their gone who is really going to care.
I sit in my room often wondering.. whose going to care when i am gone? who is really going to cry after im gone and mean it. Thats a hard thing to ask yourself. I have a hard time trusting people. I don't want to open up to them, i don't want to get burned.
I look at everyone on my list thinking no all the way down. If i say that, then why i am here. Does it matter.. will the miss me... will they mean it? I shouldn't have to ask those questions but i do. I don't to feel like this, i shouldn't have to.
Death... are you ready to deal with it?
Posted by Tomorrow on November 26, 2003, at 18:56:21
In reply to death, posted by geri122 on November 26, 2003, at 15:09:47
Many articles on death and what does come after.
Here is a link to are some I like.
Posted by fallsfall on November 26, 2003, at 19:25:47
In reply to death, posted by geri122 on November 26, 2003, at 15:09:47
Hi Geri,
I know what it is like to believe that I am not making any contribution to the world. I know what it is like to believe that I can't tolerate the pain any longer. I think that these are similar (but not the same) as feeling that no one would miss me if I were gone.
I was at a point where I believed that I had done everything I could to make things better. I had NO hope that anything could change. I believed I would be in excrutiating pain forever. But I couldn't end my pain right then - I needed to stay around for 3 more years for my daughter. I promised myself that if I was still in such pain in 3 years that I would leave.
I then looked at the pain I was dealing with and decided that it couldn't get much worse. This allowed me to start to consider some things that I never thought I would consider. In my case, I was incredibly dependent on my therapist (8 1/2 years). The sun rose and set on her, and she was the only thing that kept me above water. But there had been some talk about making me switch therapists. I had fought that idea with every inch of my being. But, since it couldn't get much worse than it was, I started to consider things that I wouldn't consider before - including changing therapists. As soon as I started thinking about that I started to get a little hope. I've been with my new therapist for 5 months now, and I am no longer suicidal. Life is still difficult - very difficult - but I have hope.
So, yes. I know about death, and I was ready to deal with it. But even though I was SURE that nothing could change to relieve my pain - something did change. And now I'm trying yet again to make a life worth living.
My story is different from yours - but the hopelessness is probably not very different. For what it is worth, I have found (with me and with my friends) that other people do care more than we think they do. That we contribute more to the world than we think we do. Depression makes it so that sometimes you don't see things very clearly. My solution (changing therapists) is probably not the right solution for you. But I truly think that there IS a right solution for you - and I hope that you can find it.
Are you in therapy? Are you on meds? How old are you? Is your family supportive? Do you have friends who SAY that they would miss you (I'm always amazed at my friends who tell me that noone would miss them - when I would miss them VERY much!)?
Please let us know how you are doing.
Posted by Jai on November 27, 2003, at 8:57:37
In reply to death, posted by geri122 on November 26, 2003, at 15:09:47
> Im not afraid.. i often wonder. I hear people talking about how they want to do everything possible before they die. Why? after their gone who is really going to care.
> it takes a lot of work to be in a body...once the body is gone you can't be here, or walk around, or have a life on this earth, or. ect...it's a special experience that we can learn from and grow from. It sounds like you are under a lot of pain right now.
> I sit in my room often wondering.. whose going to care when i am gone?
>
You are really going to care when you are gone. Put yourself back into the center of your life. It's yours and it's unique, you are having a very different experience than anyone else because it's yours. You are the most important person in your life...
>
I have a hard time trusting people. I don't want to open up to them, i don't want to get burned.
>
I wouldn't want to open up if being burned is all I saw coming. That's self preservation. I don't give my trust easily...people have to earn it. It takes time to get to know me....I don't let people in easily. Trust is earned.
>will they mean it?
> Let's reverse the question, if your friends were suddenly dead, would you miss them?
> Death... are you ready to deal with it?
Life are you ready to deal with this? I think you are very much alive and understand why you ponder death, I hope that you can love and enjoy your life a little bit more. You are loveable, you know.
Jai
Posted by fallsfall on November 27, 2003, at 10:12:12
In reply to Re: death » geri122, posted by fallsfall on November 26, 2003, at 19:25:47
Geri,
I read your posts on Psycho-Babble last night. So I have a little more information about what is happening in your life.
Since you are thinking about death, it is really important for you to get some help from someone. You really need some local real live person to be knowing what you are going through. It WILL make a difference to you - it WILL help.
Finding that person and asking for the help is incredibly difficult. Particularly when you are feeling as badly as you are feeling. I agree with the others that you should talk to your doctor or school counselor - but I also know that when I was in high school that there was no way that I would do either of those. I wouldn't know how to get in to see my doctor without involving my parents. I didn't even know who my counselor was (and even though your principal has approached you to see if you need help, Principals are SCARY). But let's try thinking of people who are less scary who could help.
The friend that you talked to. I think that she is the place to start. I'm hoping that she didn't go a long way away for Thanksgiving. Is she home? Will she be home tonight? Usually by Thanksgiving night all of the "family" things are settling down and it wouldn't be an imposition to call her. It would depend on how well you know her and her family if you could call earlier than that.
I think that the first thing you need to do is to talk to your friend. You need to tell her that you are feeling worse than you were. You need to tell her that you need some help. If, for some reason, and I don't really think this would happen - but if she doesn't hear the pain or panic or fear in your voice, and if she doesn't understand that you need HER help NOW, then I think that you will need to let her know how serious things are now. If she is ready and willing to help, then you don't have to go into the details with her if you don't want to. If she doesn't understand the seriousness of your need, then you need to make her understand. This is VERY important. If you could, you might say "I've been thinking about death alot". If that is too hard, "I don't think anyone would miss me if I were gone". Or "I don't see why I should keep trying to be happy". Or email her your post from above. Or tell her that you don't think that she really understands what you feel like, but that you need her to trust you and help you anyway.
OK. So let's assume that she says that she will help you. Now what? Think of the one adult who you trust the most in the world (I'm thinking that is not going to be one of your parents - that is OK). A grandparent? An Aunt or Uncle? Your best friend's mother? Some other friend's parent? A teacher (any teacher)? Your old Girl Scout Leader? A neighbor? A friend's older sister? People you babysit for? This person doesn't necessarily have to be in your town - you could talk to them on the phone. What you need to find is someone who you is old enough to understand how to help you who you are comfortable enough with to tell them what is really going on. Can you think of someone like that?
So at this point you would have your friend who knows that you really need some help right now. She can give you a hug (that's what I need the most), or rub your back, or just sit with you in a room so you won't have to cry alone, or just sit on the other end of the phone (or of an IM) so that you won't have to cry alone. And you have chosen an adult who you trust.
Can you see yourself getting this far? You might not be able to do it right this second ('cause it is Thanksgiving...), but do you think that you could get this far by tonight?
Can you keep in touch with us during the day? Can you find a computer even if all you say is "I'm still here"? My email is Babble Fallsfall at hotmail.com (obviously take out all the spaces and put in a '@'). I expect to be online most of the day - my family is celebrating Thanksgiving on Friday night. I may go to pick up a friend, but I wouldn't be gone more than an hour or two. You wouldn't be interrupting me if you emailed me or posted to me.
Geri, can you let me know that you've seen this post? Even if you don't want to do anything I suggest - then you can just say "NO". That's OK, too. This way wouldn't work for everyone - if you don't think it will help you, then let me know and we can figure something else out.
You are going through such a hard time - but you really are reaching out (and have been for almost a month). That is SO hard. Let people help you.
Posted by Jai on November 27, 2003, at 10:49:39
In reply to Today, posted by fallsfall on November 27, 2003, at 10:12:12
Posted by geri122 on November 27, 2003, at 11:06:40
In reply to Re: death » geri122, posted by fallsfall on November 26, 2003, at 19:25:47
I am 16 years old. I don't go to therapy, and im not on med. Supportive family.. ha thats funny. Yeah ok they are here for me.. but not in a suppoortive way.. my family is very complicated. I have A friend that is here for me. 1 that is it
Posted by geri122 on November 27, 2003, at 11:12:25
In reply to Today, posted by fallsfall on November 27, 2003, at 10:12:12
i read it and im here!
Posted by fallsfall on November 27, 2003, at 11:44:01
In reply to Re: Today, posted by geri122 on November 27, 2003, at 11:12:25
I'm so glad to hear from you. What are your plans today? Will you have a big dinner? At home? Somewhere else? How are you feeling today?
Posted by SLS on November 27, 2003, at 12:03:26
In reply to death, posted by geri122 on November 26, 2003, at 15:09:47
> Im not afraid.. i often wonder. I hear people talking about how they want to do everything possible before they die. Why? after their gone who is really going to care.
Hi.
You are so young. There are so many years ahead of you that might be good ones - even worth waiting for - even worth working for. I'm sorry that things are so bad for you right now. The odds are in your favor that this bad time will pass. I'm sure that people would miss you. More importantly, though, is that you would miss you. I am not so much scared of dying as I am of never having lived.
Go to work. You will get there.
- Scott
Posted by Jai on November 27, 2003, at 12:09:52
In reply to Re: death, posted by SLS on November 27, 2003, at 12:03:26
Posted by Jai on November 27, 2003, at 12:41:37
In reply to great response scott thanks:-)) double smile (nm), posted by Jai on November 27, 2003, at 12:09:52
I'd like to share a story.
A begger had been sitting by the side of the road for over 30 years. One day a stranger walked by, "Spare some change?" mumbled the beggar, mechanically holding out his old cap.
"I have nothing to give you," said the stranger. Then she asked: "What's that you are sitting on?"
"Nothing," replied the beggar. "Just an old box. I have been sitting on it for as long as I can remember."
"Ever looked inside?" asked the stranger. "No," said the beggar. "What's the point? There's nothing in there."
"Have a look inside," insisted the stranger. The beggar managed to pry open the lid. With astonishment, disbelief, and elation, he saw that the box with filled with gold.*This is our true wealth...our radiant joy of Being. We are fortunate to be here in bodies on the planet. I have been where you are today and I have lived through it. There are many hurdles in this life...jumping and growing are how we change. I invite you to grow.
The alternative is so final and then what?
Just know that it will always change. ..sometimes for the better. hang on and take your time. We are all out here rooting for you.
Jai
Posted by fallsfall on November 28, 2003, at 10:26:36
In reply to maybe a story?, posted by Jai on November 27, 2003, at 12:41:37
Posted by geri122 on November 28, 2003, at 10:33:45
In reply to Re: Today » geri122, posted by fallsfall on November 27, 2003, at 11:44:01
I went to my aunts house, it was a nice dinner. It is one of the only times i ever see my family. We all don;t get along that well but hey what can you do right?
Posted by geri122 on November 28, 2003, at 10:36:37
In reply to Re: death, posted by SLS on November 27, 2003, at 12:03:26
I wanna live i really do.. but sometimes i feel like i am losing my mind. I don't want to feel like i don't have any control
Posted by Jai on November 28, 2003, at 10:57:40
In reply to Re: death, posted by geri122 on November 28, 2003, at 10:36:37
> I wanna live i really do..
Good! phew...I was worried. I take these things seriously. My family actually does follow through with the threats.
but sometimes i feel like i am losing my mind. I don't want to feel like i don't have any control
>
Boy that's hard. This is where I say, "get some good solid help, a therapist, Dr." etc.
I hope you do get some help besides us here on the board. We can reach you with words and sometimes that enough but maybe right now someone with you might go further.
Jai
Posted by fallsfall on November 28, 2003, at 11:23:57
In reply to Re: Today, posted by geri122 on November 28, 2003, at 10:33:45
Geri,
I'm glad you made it through yesterday, and that you want to live. We really want to help you to live. You don't have to be in this much pain - there are things that people can do to help you.
I know that you don't want to talk to your parents, or to have them find out how you are feeling. I don't know exactly what is going on between you and your parents - if you want to explain it a little more? You did say that you think that they think that you are just looking for "attention" a lot, but I don't remember much more than that. [I have 3 kids - girls who are 20 and 15, and a boy who is 18. I hope that they think that they could talk to me, but sometimes it is hard for parents to know what is going on with their kids.]
When you were posting on Psycho-Babble you sounded really depressed and like you wanted to find some help, but didn't know how or couldn't get the courage up to actually get the help you need. But when you started posting here you started talking about death - and that is a dangerous step in depression. I know that there have been times when I've sort of been in a trance thinking about hurting or killing myself, and sometimes it was really hard to get out of that trance - even though I didn't want to die at that time. Sometimes people end up doing things that they don't intend at times like that, and I'm just afraid that even though you really do want to live that you might not be completely in control of yourself all of the time. So I'm afraid for you - and you need to take this seriously.
If you reread the first post that I wrote to you, it talked about the time when I was completely hopeless and thought that nothing could possibly change. At that point, I looked at my life and how I was feeling and I said to myself that things couldn't get any worse. That is when I was able to start considering things that I wouldn't even think about before. If things couldn't get worse than they were, then maybe if I took some chances that had always seemed to risky to me, I wouldn't be worse off than I already was. For me, I couldn't imagine living without my therapist - she was what I thought held me together. Once I really recognize, however, that things couldn't get worse I thought that getting a different therapist couldn't be worse than how I was already feeling.
I think that a lot of your resistence to getting help is because you don't want your parents to know (if this isn't true - if there is something else that is worse than having your parents know, let me know what it is). But think about how you are feeling now. Think about how you were feeling when you wrote the first post in this thread. Would having your parents know be worse than that?
For me, particularly when I am thinking about death a lot, my mood goes up and down many times. At one point I'll be able to cook dinner and talk to my kids, but at another time all I can do is lie on my bed and think dangerous thoughts, and then I'll be OK for a while (hours? days?) and then the dangerous thoughts will come back. So even if you are feeling a little better now than you were when you started this thread, you might end up feeling that badly again (I find that night time is particularly hard for me. I'll do OK in the day, but at night it is bad). When you are feeling the worst, you probably won't have the ability to ask for help - so I'm really hoping that you will ask for some help while you are feeling a litle better. Does this make sense?
Did you find out if your friend is in town this weekend? Have you talked to her?
Did you think about an adult you could trust? Could you find anyone you could be comfortable with? If you didn't, let me know and I'll try to think of other kinds of people who we haven't thought of yet.
It really is important for you to find some support now - especially if you are feeling a little better than you were. If you start feeling really badly again you need to have that support in place to help you.
Lots of people are scared to ask for help because when you ask for help it seems so much more "real" that you have a problem. None of us want to have problems! But, I have a problem whether I talk about it or not. Ignoring it or saying it isn't a big thing doesn't make it go away. You have been significantly unhappy for at least a month now - I think that if it was just going to go away, it would have done that by now. Please let me or someone else help you.
My email is Babble FallsFall at hotmail.com. It is easier to talk through email or IM. Will you email me?
Posted by geri122 on November 28, 2003, at 13:31:20
In reply to Re: Today » geri122, posted by fallsfall on November 28, 2003, at 11:23:57
I am feeling a little better today, and you are right, i do feel worse at night. When i am doing things i don't have to think about the truth, and everything going on in life, but at night i have nothing to do and all the time to think. I wish i could change things, i wish i could stop thinking but i can;t. YEs my friend is in town... and i plan to do something with her this weekend. Hopefully soon!
The whole thing with my parents is difficult.. i mean they are the type that don't want to admitt things.. regardless of how big it is. I can't talk to them about how i feel, for two reasons. One because they won't understand and two i am embarrassed. no matter how common or un common it is, i can't admit it. I feel like if i tel thim it will be real, i don't want it to happen.. i guess runing from it is the easiest
Posted by geri122 on November 28, 2003, at 13:33:23
In reply to Re: death, posted by Jai on November 28, 2003, at 10:57:40
I know i need help.. and i am taking the steps, anyone that knows me knows that i have never been good with words. You don't know how many times i have planned out speeches to say to people, but every time i chicken out.
Posted by fallsfall on November 28, 2003, at 13:56:33
In reply to Re: Today, posted by geri122 on November 28, 2003, at 13:31:20
Geri,
It really is important for you to get some other people involved.
Your parents wouldn't have to understand how you are feeling in order to help you. All they need to understand is that you are seriously depressed and you need some professional help. Do you think that they could understand that much?
I understand the embarrassed part. I have found, though, that most of the people who I have talked to about my depression are very understanding - and most of them either are taking anti-depressants or have a close friend or relative who are taking anti-depressants. Just noone talks about it, so each person sits in their own little world thinking that they are the only one. You aren't the only one.
What would your parents think? You think that they wouldn't believe you, and think you are just looking for attention. So, how could you show them that you are serious? Could you print out a couple of your posts, and show them that you have been unhappy for the whole month, and that it is getting worse (maybe show them the one about your principal checking to see if you were OK?). I would think that would convince them that you are serious.
It is hard to tell people private things about ourselves - particularly when they aren't particularly positive private things. But think about how you would feel when you would be embarrassed to tell your parents. Then think how you felt on Wednesday night (and last night??). Is the embarrassment really worse than that? Once they knew that you had an illness that needed treatment, wouldn't your embarrassment go away? Would you feel better if your friend was sitting next to you when you told them?
I really think that you should talk to a professional in the next week. I found that if I had an appointment scheduled that I could hold on until that time - and you have done a great job of holding on so far. But it really helps me to know that I will have some help a some definate time in the future.
I know you just want to pretend that it isn't real, but Geri, it is real. I'm sorry. When it gets to this point you really have to take some action. You need to talk to a counsellor, or therapist, or doctor. If you really can't ask your parents for help, then we need to think of another adult that you CAN ask for help. Who do you think you could talk to?
Do you know what would happen when you went to see someone? I can talk about what that would be like. If you knew what it was about it might not be so scary. Do you know anyone who is in therapy? Could you talk to them?
I really do know how hard this is. I remember being so scared to call my doctor, and to go to see him. But I'm really glad I did.
I'm glad you are going to see your friend. Please tell her that you are feeling so, so awful. Ask her for a hug. Then tell her that I would like her to give you an extra hug and you can know that this one is from me.
Posted by SLS on November 28, 2003, at 14:36:19
In reply to Re: death, posted by geri122 on November 28, 2003, at 10:36:37
> I wanna live i really do.. but sometimes i feel like i am losing my mind. I don't want to feel like i don't have any control
I know.
That was the thing that pissed me off the most about discovering that my illness was of biological origin. I would rather that I had a psychological problem that I could just work at to resolve than a biological disorder beyond my control to remedy.
The odds are still in your favor, though, regardless of the origin of your depression or the treatments that might be necessary. You have a great obstacle to overcome in the short-term that most people will never appreciate. For you to have posted here and choose to live another day is an indication that you have the fortitude to survive and move forward. You've made it this far. I recognize that accomplishment. I hope you do too.
- Scott
Posted by geri122 on November 29, 2003, at 9:44:08
In reply to Re: death » geri122, posted by SLS on November 28, 2003, at 14:36:19
Admitting it is the hardest thing. Right now as far as im concerned it does not exist. I can run from it and not worry, i can hide and know that no now is looking. As soo as i tell all of that wil be the opposite. YOur right making that transition is the biggest step i can take, but until im ready.. i don't know if i can really do that!
Posted by fallsfall on November 29, 2003, at 10:05:26
In reply to Re: death, posted by geri122 on November 29, 2003, at 9:44:08
Hi Geri,How was your night last night? I couldn't sleep and wondered if you were awake at 3AM.
Will you be able to see your friend today? Have you told her that you are feeling worse?
School will start up in a couple of days. Do you have a favorite teacher? My oldest daughter was very close to her French teacher - she had Mono when she was a freshman and the French teacher did some tutoring with her in the summer so she could catch up (she's a French major in college now!). My favorite teacher was the Band director. My youngest favorite is last year's World Cultures' teacher - she also had him for study hall. She doesn't really like social studies, but she and the teacher really clicked. My son liked the other French teacher - my son is now in the Army and he and the French teacher actually sent a letter back and forth. Who is your favorite teacher? The one who knows you and cares about you? Can you start thinking about maybe talking to that teacher on Monday? Just to say something like "I've been feeling really depressed, but I don't know what to do because I can't talk to my parents". Maybe your friend could come with you. Could you stay after school and talk to that teacher, or do you have to take a bus home? Sometimes if you let a teacher know during the day that you want to see them after school they can be sure to stay a little late to see you. You could even start the conversation like "I have a problem, but I don't want to tell my parents. If I tell you, can you promise not to tell my parents unless I agree?". The only time they might not be able to do that is if they think that your life is in danger (but you want to live, so that should be OK). We know that there are teachers at your school who care about you and are concerned about you, because someone went to talk to the principal. Can you guess who would have gone to talk to the principal? The teachers do want to help. They will have a better idea of what resources are available for you in your town than I would.
Thinking of you.
Posted by SLS on November 29, 2003, at 11:04:21
In reply to Re: death, posted by geri122 on November 29, 2003, at 9:44:08
> Admitting it is the hardest thing. Right now as far as im concerned it does not exist. I can run from it and not worry, i can hide and know that no now is looking. As soo as i tell all of that wil be the opposite. YOur right making that transition is the biggest step i can take, but until im ready.. i don't know if i can really do that!
I don't know if the following link will help. It is a review of the grieving process (as modeled by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, M.D. in 1969). Although it addresses how terminally ill patients deal with their impending death, it is really applicable to many types of loss.http://pages.ivillage.com/jill_m46/betrayedspouses/id16.html
The five stages of grieving in order:
denial
anger
bargaining
depression
acceptance
There is no way that you can be expected to reach acceptance of your condition overnight.I accept that I have a neurological mental illness, but I fuse to accept the illness itself. That's what keeps me alive.
- Scott
Posted by geri122 on November 30, 2003, at 17:47:52
In reply to Re: death » geri122, posted by fallsfall on November 29, 2003, at 10:05:26
i do have a favorite teacher. but i don't have her this year. She was my teacher freshman and sophmore year. She is always there for me... she was one of the teachers that said something to my principle. I know that she cares and i know that she wants to help.. but like i said it is not that easy. I know that you guys are probally tired of hearing that but i can't change that. Im scared and i don't feel they won't understand. i will get there, i mean im trying but i will take some time.
I am taking French now. It is an ok class, i don't really like the teacher but what can i do?
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