![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kara lynne on November 4, 2003, at 2:06:03
Here is the situation with my gangster neighbors: I finally got the nerve up to talk to the punk who smokes outside my window. He was there with his girlfriend who refused to acknowledge me and eventually pulled him away just when we were starting to make progress. She is not supposed to be living there, but I think she is. I asked him nicely if he would please smoke a little further away. He let me know that he might work with me on this, although he had been taunting me up until that point (he said he heard me asking him one night at midnight when I didn't want to get dressed and go out there, and that he saw the fan I put in the window trying to blow the smoke out. He thought that was hysterical, because it just sucks the air back in. ) He said since I approached him directly he would consider respecting my request, but that I had committed a grave error by calling the 'old man' landlord regarding them making noise at 3am. I explained that I knocked on the walls and asked them to be quiet but that did not work. He said the woman who rents the apt. was pissed off and defending her right to make as much noise as she wanted. That night he took his cigarette and trampy girlfriend, and went to smoke in the alley as a favor to me. I thought we had made progress.
Since that time he alternates between smoking in the alley or smoking too near my window, and is always with his girlfriend who makes him as good as unapproachable.. But there is another bench, directly underneath my bedroom window on the other side of the house where no-one is supposed to sit or smoke at all. There were problems with the prior tenant and at one point a sign was posted not to smoke or sit or talk there. It's in such close proximity it's as good as being in bed with me if people are sitting there.
From time to time the punk has sat there with his girlfriend, both of them smoking. But it was only for a few minutes and I didn't want to rock the boat. The other night I came home and there the two of them were--sitting and smoking on the bench under my bedroom door. I said hello, the girl glared at me and left without a word, and the guy just sat there and said hello. He left a few minutes later. The next morning he was there again--this time singing and smoking. Earlier his father was outside (the boyfriend of the main renter) swearing at the top of his lungs, something about 'it's your room and you can smoke the sh*t out of it if you want.' It seems like all these people do is swear and smoke, loudly and incessantly. The kid is full of this 'hood bravado, which he apparently inherited from his father.
I've only seen the woman who rents it once--our hours are completely different. She moved her boyfriend and his son in, and the son moved his girlfriend in. I heard her yelling at someone the other morning (again 3am) that he could at least pay for something, so you get the kind of ne'er do well person she's sponsoring here. The kid's girlfriend on the other hand is a real charmer. I overheard her as she was sitting on the bench underneath my window , saying that she had been so drunk the night before she was walking on all fours. And they are all four smokers which is bound to affect me no matter what--it might ultimately mean I have to move.
Yesterday I called the landlord to inquire about the bench, and got his wife on the phone. I asked who the bench belonged to and explained that people were using it again, and I also said to please not say that I had called because they were so upset with me. At one point she said, 'What do you think they're going to do, kill you?'. I didn't quite know how to respond to that. She said they didn't want me to call because they know if there are more complaints they could be evicted--even though I think it would be hard to do that.
I learned today that yesterday the landlord came directly over and read the primary renter the riot act. Those were the landlord's wife's words. She said the woman denied that the girl was living there, and naturally NO-ONE was there when he came--including me! Not the boyfriend, not the son, not the girlfriend. Suuuuure you're right, kara.
It's unfortunate that I have no rapport with the woman, but now it's a war zone. It would have been much better if we were able to communicate about things from the beginning, but after that first call to the landlord I can feel the hate coming through my walls at night. And again, they all have this tough *ss demeanor that doesn't exactly invite contact. That's why I was so proud that I finally did talk to the son directly, and hoped we'd been able to work things out. If the girl hadn't pulled him away I was going to offer to buy him a couch, or help make it worth his while, but she would not allow to him to continue to talk to me.
They are always in pairs, and often with tenants from the surrounding units who are their friends. I am always alone. Now it's gotten to the point where I'm afraid to see any of them. I went to put the trash out this morning and there must have been 50 cigarettes in the ashtray in the area where I asked the guy if he could smoke further away-not the bench under my window but the other place they can 'legally' get away with it. My apartment smells like an ashtray. So obviously he is going to do me no more favors, if he was ever going to at all.
I am not an 'uncool' person. I hate that I have established myself as the enemy here. On the other hand I felt that I had some right to say something, and I think the kid was testing me to see how far he could go. I didn't feel like bringing it up with him again because he obviously knows he's not supposed to smoke on that bench. But he made sure to tell me there would be many more problems if I called the landlord.
I feel like I ratted on the mafia. I think the landlords are smokers too, but it doesn't sound like they're very happy with these tenants anyway, and they encouraged me to call anytime. Meanwhile I fear I've set up a horrible situation and I'm fantasizing all sorts of terrible things; tire slashing, window smashing, I don't even want to say the things that have crossed my mind. Meanwhile I'd like to be able to empty my trash in my own dumpster. Last week I was so nervous I actually took it to work with me and dumped it there.
It's stressful to even walk to my car. I look out the window and dart out as quickly as I can. I guess I want to know if anyone has any suggestions as to how I should deal with them if I see them: Do I act like I never called? Do I just ignore them completely? Do I try to look at them fearlessly and not say anything? Do I duck and cover? I started parking on the street to avoid having to see them when I walk to my door (from my parking space in back) but then someone figured he could just start using my parking space. Still for now I'm on the street again.
What would you guys do? How would you act? I don't think I can talk to them right now, it's too much hate coming from too many people. But I hate living with this kind of fear.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you for laboring through another long winded post.
Posted by Tabitha on November 4, 2003, at 2:37:28
In reply to My safety feels threatened, need advice., posted by kara lynne on November 4, 2003, at 2:06:03
I hate to say it, but it doesn't sound like the situation is going to improve much til one or the other of you moves out. Can you look for a new place? How about somewhere with nice quiet old folks as neighbors-- or can you rent a room in somebody's house? Maybe a nice nonsmoking professional person who works long hours. I just have no idea how to manage the situation you describe. Sorry if this isn't much help.
Posted by fallsfall on November 4, 2003, at 7:25:43
In reply to Re: My safety feels threatened, need advice., posted by Tabitha on November 4, 2003, at 2:37:28
Kara,
This is not my area of competence. I really don't know what works in these situations. My inclination is to hide, but that probably isn't the most effective strategy. I'm glad that you are asserting yourself because otherwise I think that you would feel even more victimized.
Years ago my husband and I bought a house on an acre of land at the end of a dead end street in a very tiny town. It even had a small horse barn in the back (not that I had a horse, but that gives you more of an idea of the kind of area it was). We lived there for 5 years, my 2nd and 3rd kids were born there. The neighbors became a problem. They had 3 boys - not too different in age from my 3 kids. The father would be in the backyard swearing loudly at his kids. He swore more in one day than I do in a year. He also hit his kids frequently. We were never friendly with them, though I did speak to the mother a couple of times when he had moved out for a month or two.
It got so bad that my husband called Social Services and they came out to investigate the family. In the meantime, my oldest (who was 3 or 4 at the time) was afraid to go outside to play in our backyard because she was afraid of the father. I went on the business trip from hell and when I came back 3 weeks later, I find that the neighbor had called Social Services on MY family saying that we left the kids alone (they had a babysitter, it was a teenage boy who lived up the street), and that there were "inappropriate" things going on between my husband and the teen babysitter. Social Services found nothing wrong at my house. But at this point, my husband started being afraid to go outside, too (and he's 6' 3" tall!).
Did I mention that the neighbor was a Heroin addict? Or that he kept a loaded gun in his house?
When my job started to fall apart after the business trip from hell, I started looking for a new job. An advantage for the new job would be if I had to move because it was too far away, then my new company would help with my moving expenses. It all worked out and we moved about 2 hours north. I felt so guilty selling my house to a couple who were due to have a baby. We didn't tell them about the neighbors.
Moving took a real strain off of my family.
You have so much going on right now, Kara. You may need to decide where you are going to put your energies. Do you want to confront you dad, or write your resume, or move or fight your neighbors? I guess of those choices that fighting your neighbors probably has the least chance of success, and the smallest payback in the long run (you are not planning on living there very long anyway). Others may (hopefully) have better ideas on dealing with them that don't consume large amounts of energy. I think your avoidance strategies (like parking on the street) are pretty smart.
This is a tough one. Please be careful.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2003, at 8:45:58
In reply to My safety feels threatened, need advice., posted by kara lynne on November 4, 2003, at 2:06:03
If it's at all possible, please move. That just isn't worth the potential trouble, when you have enough to think about already. I know you've already moved twice, but.... I still think it's worth it.
I think Tabitha is right. A room in a nice retired person's house would be cheaper than an apartment, and they'd probably welcome a well behaved non smoker. It'd have to be the right fit, but it's worth thinking about.
At any rate, I'd move if you possibly can. Nothing's as important as your safety.
Posted by oeps7 on November 4, 2003, at 8:50:28
In reply to Re: My safety feels threatened, need advice., posted by fallsfall on November 4, 2003, at 7:25:43
Hi Kara,
I know it really is not fun when you have problems with your neighbors. My fiance and I had trouble with the people who lived above us making all kinds of noise, we do live someplace else now but I know how frustrating it is because when you are home you should be comfortable.
How easy is it to find another place where you live? You should not have to deal with this obnoxious behavior, it seems like the more you argue with them though the harder a time you are going to have. Please be careful. You may be better off getting out of the situation.
All the best,
MaryKnow that you are not the only one that goes through that. :)
Posted by oeps7 on November 4, 2003, at 8:51:59
In reply to Re: My safety feels threatened, need advice., posted by oeps7 on November 4, 2003, at 8:50:28
Not wanting smoke in your house or noise when you're sleeping does not make you uncool. :) We all think you are way cool!!!
Posted by Wildflower on November 4, 2003, at 9:47:23
In reply to My safety feels threatened, need advice., posted by kara lynne on November 4, 2003, at 2:06:03
This must be very hard for you. I wish that I had the solution for you but it sounds as if there is no easy fix. The other posters suggested moving. Is there a specific reason you're living where you are? Convenience? Location? Low rent? Close to family? If moving is an option, you may want to look for a new place.
If moving is not an option, you may want to look into buying an air sanitizing unit (that removes the smoke from the air) along with some good earplugs. I know it sounds horrible but it may provide some relief to you.
Please be careful with your neighbors. Consider documenting the trouble you've had with them (date, time, etc.). God forbid if anything happens to you or your property, you can provide the police with your log.
I wish you the best. Be safe.
Posted by kara lynne on November 4, 2003, at 14:08:31
In reply to Re: My safety feels threatened, need advice. » kara lynne, posted by Wildflower on November 4, 2003, at 9:47:23
--If moving is not an option, you may want to look into buying an air sanitizing unit (that removes the smoke from the air) along with some good earplugs. I know it sounds horrible but it may provide some relief to you.--
Dear Wildflower,
That doesn't sound horrible at all--why would it? I have foam earplugs sitting by my bed and an Ionic Breeze that someone gave me just for that purpose. My mother called last night and said she was sending away for another for me.Why I can't move: Truthfully no reason is good enough when you're talking about personal safety, although when I read those suggestions (good ones I might add) my heart sank a little. I've moved twice in the last 6 months, breaking up with my boyfriend and fininshing school. This place was a good find that was never listed officially because it is so affordable. My friends's client informed her incidentally that she was moving and that's how I found out about it. I called the landlord that night and he agreed to my moving in, without a last month's rent or deposit of any kind. If the neighbor's weren't there it would truly be a blessing. But they are.
My counselor seems to think the landlord is looking to get them out. And he did come immediately out Sunday (although I didn't know it at the time) to talk to them which says something, even though it may end up working against me. The landlord's wife has said 'hang in' to me each time I've called, almost indicating it was just a matter of time before they do. But we all know that time could be years. Still, if possible I would prefer not to move right now, especially now that I'm suddenly facing all these financial stressors. So I'd like to see if I can come up with some things to say to myself if I see them hunkering by. I wish I could get myself out of the fear state because I know that attracts more trouble.
I was thinking this morning that the bottome line may be that I feel I did something 'wrong' and maybe that's the basis for the extremity of fear: Maybe the kid really was ok, maybe I should have just asked him not to sit on the bench, etc.etc.etc. But I was intimidated because the father was out there with him, swearing and pis*ing on his territory. Then I'm trying to maintain a strategic mindset if I'm confronted by one of them; maybe I could say I called the landlord about something entirely different and happened to ask who the bench belonged to because I heard conflicting information about it (the last part is true, the woman who lived here before said it belonged to the landlord--not true). Then I could say I thought the little girl did live there--and maybe if she had spoken to me I would have known differently. Only I wouldn't say that. But I feel like saying it works both ways on the streets (!) and if the little ***** had said hello and been decent to me it might have worked in their favor.
See I swear too. I have nothing against swearing, but when it's not peppered with any articulatable English in between it just isn't the same. This has really made me aware of how vulgar swearing comes across as a dietary mainstay.
Thank you so much for your suggestions. I never thought of keeping a log, that's a good idea and I will begin one today. God willing I will never need it. Maybe I will ultimately have to move--when it gets to the point of keeping a police log it may be unavoidable. But I'd like to hold out at least a little while if I can.
Thanks again.
Posted by Wildflower on November 4, 2003, at 14:55:57
In reply to Safety/ Wildflower, posted by kara lynne on November 4, 2003, at 14:08:31
I understand your reasons for not moving and they are valid ones. Moving is never an easy task.
If the landlord is trying to get them to move out, it may take some time. I think there are laws that need to be followed before evicting someone. Hang in there...
From what you've said, it doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong. You definitly have a reason to voice your opinion if it is affecting your quality of life.
As for the police log, it may be best to re-name it a confrontation log. It sounds less scary.
Let me know how things go.
Posted by kara lynne on November 4, 2003, at 15:06:48
In reply to Re: My safety feels threatened, need advice., posted by fallsfall on November 4, 2003, at 7:25:43
dear fallsfall,
What an atrocious situation for you. I wouldn't compare my neighbors to yours, but the comfort level of living next to them might be the same.It's so clear that it was the right choice for you to move. I'm still in a little denial right now about it being that clear for me. You're right; I do have a few things demanding my attention right now. The stress of having to deal with my neighbors is a really unfortunate one. I don't even realize how greatly it's affecting me until I see that I am avoiding going out of my house--even right now, because the kid is outside working on some car part. I am being victimized by my surroundings, and maybe I'm contributing to that. The only thing I can try to do is change that internally, but I'm such a chicken, and not quite sure how to do that. I had sudden courage to deal with him a couple of weeks ago and that has all but disappeared. I need to figure out how to hold my head high, or I'll eventually have to get out. This is no way to live.
I'm going to go hold my freezing paws under hot water; the gas company can't come out until tomorrow to turn my pilot light on. It's been off for the summer and it turned freezing cold here literally overnight. Then I will try to come out of hiding and go face the day.
Thank you for writing.
Posted by kara lynne on November 4, 2003, at 15:12:08
In reply to Re: My safety feels threatened, need advice., posted by oeps7 on November 4, 2003, at 8:50:28
Hi Mary,
Thanks for reminding me that this is a problem a lot of people run into. A big part of it for me is that I'm one person and they're four. I hate to say that but it's true. This would be one of those times it would be nice to have a man to walk in the house with, but I can't spend too much time dwelling on that one. I would if it helped, but it doesn't seem to bring one any closer...I'm glad you're living somewhere comfortable--and thanks for saying I'm not the uncool witch I'm getting the reputation for here!
Posted by Ilene on November 6, 2003, at 21:45:50
In reply to My safety feels threatened, need advice., posted by kara lynne on November 4, 2003, at 2:06:03
Can you smile and maybe say "hi" or wave when you see them? Or do do them a favor? I'm definitely the avoidant type, too, but I've occasionally used that tactic. It's not what they expect. Remember, they're probably not very bright.
You might be able to stick it out. Low-life tenants move around a lot because they're obnoxious and don't pay the rent. The landlord is bound to prefer a nice, tidy, quiet tenant who pays on time.
Ilene
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2003, at 9:29:27
In reply to My safety feels threatened, need advice., posted by kara lynne on November 4, 2003, at 2:06:03
I know I'm coming in late on this, but I hope "better late than never" applies.....
To focus on little bits, I've deleted much of the message.
> I asked him nicely if he would please smoke a little further away. He said since I approached him directly he would consider respecting my request, but that I had committed a grave error by calling the 'old man' landlord regarding them making noise at 3am. He said the woman who rents the apt. was pissed off and defending her right to make as much noise as she wanted.
I hope you remain on task....you did the right thing by calling the landlord, and their only problem is they got caught. There is no "right to make noise", but there is a right to have quiet enjoyment.
> There were problems with the prior tenant and at one point a sign was posted not to smoke or sit or talk there. It's in such close proximity it's as good as being in bed with me if people are sitting there.Can you get the sign put up again, or have the bench moved altogether?
> I said hello, the girl glared at me and left without a word, and the guy just sat there and said hello. He left a few minutes later.
They understand unspoken words.
> It seems like all these people do is swear and smoke, loudly and incessantly. The kid is full of this 'hood bravado, which he apparently inherited from his father.
The father seems to be egging his son on. He's afraid of you. Loudmouths are cowards. Always. If he ever had to face the landlord, he'd have his tail between his legs so fast.....
> And they are all four smokers which is bound to affect me no matter what--it might ultimately mean I have to move.
That's one option. I'll come back to it, momentarily.
> Yesterday I called the landlord to inquire about the bench, and got his wife on the phone. I asked who the bench belonged to and explained that people were using it again, and I also said to please not say that I had called because they were so upset with me.
I think it would be pretty obvious who called the landlord, considering the topic.
> At one point she said, 'What do you think they're going to do, kill you?'. I didn't quite know how to respond to that.
She coincidentally played into your fear, but it was meant as a joke. More in a sec.
> She said (the tenant, right) they didn't want me to call because they know if there are more complaints they could be evicted--even though I think it would be hard to do that.
Take it at its face value. You have no idea what other problems these folks have had with the landlord.....other noise complaints, late rent, damage to the unit.
> I learned today that yesterday the landlord came directly over and read the primary renter the riot act. Those were the landlord's wife's words.A last warning, perhaps?
> She said the woman denied that the girl was living there, and naturally NO-ONE was there when he came--including me! Not the boyfriend, not the son, not the girlfriend. Suuuuure you're right, kara.
The landlord's no fool.
> It's unfortunate that I have no rapport with the woman, but now it's a war zone.Here's where interpretation really matters. Given the circumstances, it would be reasonable to understand how they may not behave pleasantly towards you. Not everyone likes everyone else. They want to blame you for their mistakes. Whatever.
> It would have been much better if we were able to communicate about things from the beginning,
You tried. They blew it.
> but after that first call to the landlord I can feel the hate coming through my walls at night.
I think your imagination is getting the better of you.
> I am not an 'uncool' person. On the other hand I felt that I had some right to say something, and I think the kid was testing me to see how far he could go. I didn't feel like bringing it up with him again because he obviously knows he's not supposed to smoke on that bench.See about getting the bench removed. That's doable.
> But he made sure to tell me there would be many more problems if I called the landlord.
They'd be evicted for sure.
I moved thing around a little bit....
> I feel like I ratted on the mafia.
> Now it's gotten to the point where I'm afraid to see any of them.
> I hate that I have established myself as the enemy here.
> Meanwhile I fear I've set up a horrible situation and I'm fantasizing all sorts of terrible things; tire slashing, window smashing, I don't even want to say the things that have crossed my mind.
> It's stressful to even walk to my car. I look out the window and dart out as quickly as I can.Here's where fear gets the better of you. The problem is that you feel the fear of each of these imagined outcomes, added together with the feel of each of the others, and it becomes generalized to them all. One of the ways to bring it under control is to write them all out, and express your imagined real-life outcome.
For example, with respect to your fear of seeing any of them.....merely seeing the girlfriend was enough to have her run away, and saying hi to the kid got him to leave the bench. These people fear confrontation with you, and they yell and carry on to try and scare you off. You have the power. So, you consider seeing one of them, and you make eye contact, and go about your business. The fear of tire-slashing has no bearing on this, ya know?
I really think criminal activity is pretty unlikely.
You can also write out other options, such as moving. I see in another reply you aren't prepared to do this again, so writing it out, with the implications, you can sort of emotionally "cross if off the list".
The end result is, if you've done a thorough job, you get to bring focus to a particular situation if and when it really occurs.
> I guess I want to know if anyone has any suggestions as to how I should deal with them if I see them: Do I act like I never called?
How do you act like you never called? There's no point in lying about it, and everyone knows anyway. Having called twice, they know you may call again. They know you have power, and aren't afraid to use it.
> Do I just ignore them completely?
Make eye contact, and carry on.
> Do I try to look at them fearlessly and not say anything?
Don't try, do it. As Yoda (of Starwars) once said, "Do, or don't do. There is no try."
> Do I duck and cover?
They're not carrying guns, ya know? They are people in fear themselves. Don't show them yours.
> I started parking on the street to avoid having to see them when I walk to my door (from my parking space in back) but then someone figured he could just start using my parking space. Still for now I'm on the street again.
That's a symbolic gesture that keeps reinforcing your fear. Please go back to living your life, and stop worrying about living theirs.
> What would you guys do? How would you act? I don't think I can talk to them right now, it's too much hate coming from too many people. But I hate living with this kind of fear.
You needn't say more than say "Hi", and walk on. They are not your friends, and you owe them nothing more than the merest trace of civility.
> Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you for laboring through another long winded post.> I think the landlords are smokers too, but it doesn't sound like they're very happy with these tenants anyway, and they encouraged me to call anytime.
I moved this to the end, because the landlords appear to have taken your side. Don't under-estimate how powerful that is.
Lar
Posted by kara lynne on November 10, 2003, at 2:02:25
In reply to Re: My safety feels threatened, need advice. » kara lynne, posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2003, at 9:29:27
Hi lar,
I wrote this somewhere else you're liable to read it, but since you *asked* I'll use the opportunity to post an update here.I'm afraid the landlord may have made it worse by confronting them again--the punks took the bench from one side of the house (where they weren't supposed to be smoking at all) and moved it to the other side of the house where I had politely asked if they could smoke a little further away from my window. Well after the landlord got to them they took the bench and placed it as absolutely close to my window as you could get without actually being in my apartment. I got the courage up to take my trash out to my own dumpster today (I've actually been taking it other places to avoid seeing them) and there was an ashtray on the table with about 40 cigarettes in it. Suffice to say they aren't doing me any favors--if they were ever going to. But now they're really going to mess with me.
I spent the day trying to improve the Feng Shui in this room to see if I can affect anything from the inside out. I don't have very much to go on except I know the desk shouldn't face away from the door (so I moved it) and I think it's good to have a mirror in front of the wall we share so their energy is deflected. Either that or I've got it all wrong and invited all sorts of bad juju upon myself.
Thanks for the suggestions about not giving into the fear--I know I've got to do that. I had to get past the part where my body was literally reacting like it was in mortal danger when I anticipated seeing one of them. I don't want to smell like fearful prey...
But seeing that bench there today pis*ed me off something good. And when I'm mad I can muster up some pretty good strength. I'm planning to inform the landlord that they moved the bench ridiculously close to the window I asked them to avoid smoking in. It should never have been on the other side of the building to begin with if signs had to be put up not to sit on it. But they could have *easily* moved it in the opposite direction on the other side and all would have been well. Plus it would have been a good faith move on their part. Hah. What am I drinking?
thanks, and more to you later.
This is the end of the thread.
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