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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2003, at 19:15:31
In reply to Arvo Part and story 4 Katy, Katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 14, 2003, at 19:05:59
> Hi Katia and Katy,
>
> Katia, do you have a particular Arvo Part to recommend? Amazon has 137 hits for him!! The reviewers all seem to love his music.
>
> Ladies, I surely can relate with the upheavals you're going through. Not the same situations, but similar in how terribly uncomfortable it feels to be in that volatility and how exhausting it is to be bouncing all over the place emotionally and physically. I'm probably 2 years ahead of you with the Bipolar dx, adjusting to new meds, desperately trying to find some equilibrium and a good night's sleep. I have an insight based on my own experience that you might relate to (as we all seem to be doing for each other). One year ago around this time, I was a wreck, my nerves and emotions were all over. I was already taking lithium and I think I was taking Lam as well, but not very much.
>
> We live in a rural area in foothills terrain and the main road can be hair raising especially in the winter when it's foggy and dark. It's really not so bad at all now that I'm used to it, but the first few winters here I was through some very tough times. I could barely drive myself and would white-knuckle it the whole way collapsing on the bed unable to do a thing but sob once I got home.
>
> My husband and I were working a contract position at the same company and he would drive us home. Every single night I would either be curled up in fetal position moaning, or shrieking 'Slow down! I can't stand this!' and we'd have to wait by the side of the road until I calmed down enough to continue. My husband would just roll his eyes and humor me because he knows better. But reaching the home stretch was even worse because I was CONVINCED that I'd find at least one if not all of our cats' mangled furry little bodies run over by trucks and strewn all over the quiet country road we live on. Or if they weren't all accounted for within the first 30 minutes of arriving, I'd be CERTAIN that a coyote had gotten them and was out haunting the streets with a flashlight calling for them or looking in the bushes for their mangled little bodies. Life was a series of trajedies for the kid, all products of my poor fried imagination. Any time I start getting pissed at my husband, I think about all he's put up with and it brings the annoyance level down a notch or two.
>
> Needless to say, my work suffered and that caused stress. This wasn't anything new and that level of anxiety and dread were with me off and on for many years before. But it was becoming a chronic condition that was interferring with everything. I couldn't go overnight anywhere without being tormented with thoughts of the house and cats getting blown away in a freak tornado. There were real problems as well, serious financial problems, health issues, but I knew I was overreacting to everything and could not help it. Sleep? Hah! Not without my arsenal of sleep meds, and I'd frequently wake up in a panic and not be able to get back to sleep.
>
> I'd always clucked and smirked at those 'nervous women' it's so easy to make fun of, but here I now was, after a rather wild and crazy earlier life, a pathetic nervous woman. Benzos helped alot once I decided I needed something. I should have started taking them before this panic set in, but it was still a constant feeling of fingernails on a blackboard. Not only that but I was really constipated. Maybe not bruxism (I'd already had that one) but bad enough. A great day consisted of being able to plop little marbles into the toilet and it didn't improve much from there. A bad day was pretty damn awful. I look back on my journals as well, Katy, and am amazed that I survived such horrible misery on all levels of my being.
>
> I was really in a precarious place, ping-ponging all over the place and felt that I would really die if I didn't find relief. When it got too bad I'd to to the emergency room, mainly to feel like I was doing something to get help, but nothing really helped that much so I was feeling very despondent that this was my lot. Alcohol was the ONLY THING that could lift me out of it immediately (and they wonder why we drink) but that became not an option with the fibromyalgia flares that were getting worse.
>
> I was thinking about all this yesterday as I was zooming around the curves in the road - at night, enjoying the little zippy thrill feelings and thinking 'Wow, no way could I have done this last year!'. What a difference from back then when a little thrill might have sent me into orbit. Life was hell with occasional breaks, but I was exhausted from the constant strain, really depleted and out of whack in every way. There was no middle ground. I was either totally exhausted and out of it or severely agitated and despondent. Those madcap manic sprees were by this time a fond memory.
>
> I guess I'm relating this as an 'inspirational story' to show that yes, it is possible to settle down and heal and eventually feel better. I've come so far since then, even with my Mom's death and the blips I've had since then. I'm not sure what it's due to, finding the right meds and reaching equilibrium with them, finding a great naturopath who is treating hormonal imbalances, whatever. Really, not much is all that different medicinally (well, actually, the hormonal thing has helped hugely). But something finally clicked and I'm so thankful that I made it through. This stability has persisted long enough now to trust it and, except for some bumps along the way, it is expanding. There was a reason I so anxious, not because I was weird or defective or didn't try hard enough. I was out of balance and couldn't think clearly, and now that I'm getting back in balance things are much more straightforward. I still worry about the kitties and I still have lots of problems, but the biggest thing is that I now know I can handle WHATEVER comes up, not explode, and even grow to appreciate the adventures (it's only a movie).
>
> I think that if I had only been able go back in time to tell myself 'You're going to make it. It will take time, but have faith, it will get better!', maybe I would have relaxed a bit and not wore myself out so badly. But maybe not, because it's so hard to believe that we'll ever get better, even if God proclaimed it Him/Her self. But perhaps you can stretch a little and pretend that this is a letter to you from your future selves that you are making it and you will get better. How can I know this? Because of the commitment and heart you're putting into this journey. It's the Hero's Journey and you win no matter what and incidently, get to feeling better as well.
>
> It's the fear that it will never get better and we won't be able to stand it that is the worst part of all of this. Isn't this so? So have faith, dear friends. I'll bet a short time from now when your meds kick in, or something else settles into place you'll view this time with amazement at how far you've come and how much you've learned, and will think you're some pretty hot mamas for persisting in the face of some Super High Intensity Training. - Barbara
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 16, 2003, at 19:38:40
In reply to Arvo Part and story 4 Katy, Katia « BarbaraCat, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2003, at 19:15:31
[Posted by loolot on September 16, 2003, at 9:33:54
In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030912/msgs/260044.html]
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 16, 2003, at 19:46:09
In reply to Arvo Part and story 4 Katy, Katia « BarbaraCat, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2003, at 19:15:31
Out of town » fluffy
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 15, 2003, at 20:50:25
In reply to Re: serotonergic?, posted by fluffy on September 14, 2003, at 14:45:36
Hi Katy and Katia,
I wanted to let you know, so you don't worry about me, that I'm going to be out of town visiting relatives for about 10 days. You might get this message twice cause I had a problem with my email. Take care of yo'selves, buddies. - Barbara----
Re: Out of town » BarbaraCat
Posted by katia on September 16, 2003, at 2:11:33
In reply to Out of town » fluffy, posted by BarbaraCat on September 15, 2003, at 20:50:25
Hi Barb,
if you get this, have a good time.
I'll be here when you get back!
Katia----
Arvo P. recommendation: Tabula Rasa is gorgeous (nm) » BarbaraCat
Posted by loolot on September 16, 2003, at 9:33:54
In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030912/msgs/260044.html
----
Re: Thanks, friend » BarbaraCat
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 16, 2003, at 11:02:50
In reply to Thanks, friend » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 12, 2003, at 13:39:39
Barbara,
Sorry for butting in on a painfully personal post to katia. Your post "hit home" with me. Your fall from sobriety scares me. I've had so many "slips" and "slides" during my recovery that I feel like the old "wet N wild" water park that used to be across the highway from 6-flags in TX.Don't do this alone. AA, therapy, or better yet, a friend holding your hand through this. A warm hand, not your hand holding and right-clicking a cold mouse.
I'm praying for you.
KDi in Texas----
Re: Thanks, friend » KimberlyDi
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 16, 2003, at 13:05:19
In reply to Re: Thanks, friend » BarbaraCat, posted by KimberlyDi on September 16, 2003, at 11:02:50
Kimberly,
Not to worry about 'butting in'. There's no such thing on this board. Thanks so much for your support! I've been doing well since then. Many things surfaced just recently and I've been looking at them and while not easy, I'm understanding alot more about myself. The 'need' to go numb and run from looking was taking the form of alcohol. My Mom's recent death has me going through alot of things, both emotional and sorting through boxes of things that would of course bring up memories of a very painful childhood. Even though it was clear what I was doing, the need for relief was overwhelming and I made the choice to get that relief. But letting it get out of control, and doing it with white wine, which I have a confirmed allergy to, was self-destructive and making my life miserable. So, I had to find a way to work with a challenging situation.My life is somewhat split. My husband and I both follow a dedicated spiritual life, meditate, and such and most of our circle of friends do the same. But he's also a musician and plays in clubs and there I am out in the crowd supporting him, which is important for both of us. I'd prefer the clubs were more wholesome places, but at this point he has to take what he can get or else be a starving musician. There's no getting away from the pervasiveness of alcohol - it's everywhere and I think that staying away from it all together is unrealistic for me. So I recently had to come up with a compromise that I could live with that would not impede staying true to my spiritual convictions. That commitment is to drink one drink weekend nights and abstain the rest. And no white wine which has been the only liquor all my life that I've ever had a craving for. One Margarita or microbrew sits on my table all night long, provides somewhat of a human connection with the other patrons in places I'd otherwise have no interest in were it not for my husband's passion for playing music.
So far the plan seems to be working. I'm also working through alot of old stuff and and I've got to have a clear head to not get submerged in that stuff. In the process, I'm not feeling deprived, as I was in sitting in the clubs with a glass of club soda. That ruse doesn't fool anyone, especially my tastebuds. As far as therapy, I've had so many, many years of it and I'm very disillusioned with the managed care travesty, and insurance is the only way I could afford a therapist right now. My journal has truly been my most powerful therapist. Oh, and praying and listening to the answers.
Thanks for your concern and be assured that my self, my dharma path, and my husband won't let me get away with any sh*t for very long. Also, thanks for your prayers, I really mean that, I believe in them greatly, and know that the favor is returned to you.
> Barbara,----
Thanks, friend » BarbaraCat
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 16, 2003, at 15:24:30
In reply to Re: Thanks, friend » KimberlyDi, posted by BarbaraCat on September 16, 2003, at 13:05:19
Glad you understand that everything is not black and white in recovery. You know what works for you. I do something similar.
God Bless,
Kim :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 30, 2003, at 18:55:54
In reply to Arvo Part and story 4 Katy, Katia « BarbaraCat, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2003, at 19:15:31
Avro? » katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 29, 2003, at 20:58:51
In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030928/msgs/264300.html
Vat is dees 'Avro' ting?
>I think the Avro (sp?) has done it to us. What do you think? HAve you gotten it yet?
----
Re: Avro? » BarbaraCat
Posted by katia on September 30, 2003, at 2:28:58
In reply to Avro? » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 29, 2003, at 20:58:51
Spelled Arvo.
It's that music I recommended not so long ago.
k.----
Re: Avro? » katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 30, 2003, at 15:58:47
In reply to Re: Avro? » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on September 30, 2003, at 2:28:58
Oh, thanks for reminding me! I have to make notes to myself anymore or it's pffffft. Please give me the name of the CD again and any others you like.
Alas, you're so lucky you can still tolerate skunk blood. I do miss the taste and nice buzz of pissy swampwater, but jeez, it makes me feel awful. I thought that once I started feeling better it would be OK, but I have a bit of hypoglycemia and the rush ain't doing me any good. So think of me and raise a glass to our health the next time you enjoy that putrifying goo. - Barbara
> Spelled Arvo.
> It's that music I recommended not so long ago.
> k.----
Re: Avro? » BarbaraCat
Posted by katia on September 30, 2003, at 16:23:24
In reply to Re: Avro? » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 30, 2003, at 15:58:47
Hi,
No, it really doesn't work for me. I soooo have to keep it in check - very little or nothing at all. My substance abuse with this is directly linked to my mood disorder.The name is Arvo Part "Alina".
It's piano and violin.
k.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2003, at 19:02:16
In reply to Redirected: Avro?, posted by Dr. Bob on September 30, 2003, at 18:55:54
Re: Hello gals...
Posted by fluffy on November 7, 2003, at 13:44:18
In reply to Re: Hello gals..., posted by katia on November 6, 2003, at 21:04:15
Hi again--
Maybe I'm a bit hypo today...oh well. I was just sitting here thinking, "you know--all of the poets and artists I liked when I was young ended up being bipolar!"
There was one poem in particular that really stuck out to me. It was called "Second April" by Edna St. Vincent Millay. I even did an illuminated letter of it in my calligraphy class. Here's another good one. It's always good to know that the poets knew exactly what true depression and pain feels like.
Here's a link to a good one:
http://www.everypoet.com/archive/poetry/Edna_St_Vincent_Millay/edna_st_vincent_millay_second_april_the_death_of_autumn.htm----
Re: Hello gals...
Posted by katia on November 7, 2003, at 15:29:21
In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20031105/msgs/277481.html
Hi Barbara,
Yum, just downed my 100mgs. Cheers to you Lamotrigine!> Hi Katy,
> Those are wonderful words to Katia, so kind and full of understanding. We really have to be extra special kind to ourselves (and each other as best we can) during these times. The knee-jerk reaction is to beat ourselves into doing it 'right', but if we could, we would.Yes, wonderful words, I agree. And you are right Barb, that DUH! to the world and to ourselves WE WOULD IF WE COULD ANNNNDDD WE WANT TO BUT WE CAN'T!!!!!!! Quite simple so leave me/us alone!
> I try to remember how I would treat a poor sick frightened animal. Would I whip a starving and ill horse into going faster? Would I beat fear into any one of my beloved kitties so that they 'behave'?
**Great analogy. In fact that's something I think about when I get obsessed and attached to any animal who I think is suffering in the slightest. I give up everything to protect and care for this animal. I think maybe for me there's some projection for my inner suffering/loneliness that I don't nuture so much in myself taken out on those lucky animals. Everyone I know thinks I'm *mad* the way I carry on about animals....I'm always in love with someone, normally a dog.
>>I don't think so. Yet, I beat myself unmercifully if I don't conform to a sick society's standards or if I can't perform the way I imagine a more energetic and less traumatized version of me might.
** I feel this too. and Ithink there are two sides to it. As you say if people ARE happy in this world they are not paying attention; I agree. But in reverse, if people AREN'T happy than there not paying attention - there's so much beauty and magic and yes we have to be without a black clouded head to see those things... I also feel that sensitivity and depression go hand and hand. Have you ever read "The Highly Sensitive Person". I haven't but have been meaning to. I'm discovering two sides to me (very fitting ha ha...)One that is murdered and torn apart from living in this world full of suffering. I hate seeing anyone or anything suffer to the point I become overwhelmed and toxic too. So this other side has been created to protect that vulnerable over exposed feeling side. I've become part raving, fiesty, won't put up with your BS, no one's walking over me, highly opinionated and assertive bitch. I really am finding out that that is a reaction an Armour(!) to the soft interior.**The other side to this, is think of how wonderful it's been to be sensitive in all the good ways...it feels like a living heaven rather than living hell.
>>Yes, I get royally pissed at living half a life. Sometimes I don't know who to get pissed at, I don't have the energy to defuse it, I don't wanna write in my journal or do a damn thing - and yet it has to go somewhere. So back at me it goes, and that's the absolute worst thing I could possibly do. It gets impacted and turns toxic.
**I know this feeling of living a half life, or feeling that way anyway. I think that quote that Katy gave is appropriate here ( "don't compare other peoples' outsides with your insides). i often say "I want to be among the land of the living" and people respond and say flatly, "you are.". I guess we get this idea in our heads that everyone else has a fulfilled life apart from us. And part of that is true (for me). Who else gets up at noon sits around reading and writing 'til late afternoon, goes for a walk or to work, comes home, the sun has set early and here I am again, alone in my room staring at four walls? I'd say a lot of people out there have a more filled up life and life isn't quite as exhausting and difficult. So there's two sides to that and I have to keep that in mind.
I also know all too well about that energy having no where to go but back in on myself - self destruction. It's actually a creative energy that hasn't found an outlet. We can see this energy as good, if we can channel it properly. Mine has always come back on me b/c I've normally so hazy and wacked out that no form of focus was possible.
> I like your suggestion to Katia to just sleep when you need to and not worry about the hours if you don't really have to. Yes, there is sleep disorder syndrome and that has to be addressed, as she is doing in the study. But I think we fear something called 'lazyness' or 'self-indulgence' or 'not measuring up' like it's our dirty little 'if only they knew that about me' secret.
** I know all too well that feeling of shame.Glad to have the two of you (and this board).
katia----
Re: Hello gals...
Posted by katia on November 7, 2003, at 15:42:07
In reply to Re: Hello gals..., posted by fluffy on November 7, 2003, at 13:44:18
Hi Katy,
Great poem. Like you, I've always been drawn to poets, artists, and writers who write about their experience (jamison, plath, sexton, etc.). never knowing why, but it just felt good because I could relate and I wasn't alone.
You know what I was talking about earlier about my friend, rolling her eyes at the figure stigma of the "romantic mad poet" as being all so typical almost an escape. I really resent that. What has gotten me through this life is writing myself and reading what other's have written about a synonymous experience. She's a writer, but has not had many bad experiences - great family, great childhood, no mood disorder and I think she scoffs at the notion of a "mad poet". Which is fine, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I'm not subscribing or aspiring to being a "mad poet/artist" etc. it's just what i've been drawn to. and it's saved my life in so many ways to have that connection/outlet. For instance, we went to see "The Hours" together and at the end of it I mentioned the word "depression" and she got really annoyed and said "it wasnt' about depressed women, it was about male suppression of women". anyway, sorry to go on as you can see, I'm having a bit of a problem with her and don't know quite how to bring up the debate of "is depression real?"
it's so frustrating........ugh!thanks for the poem.
k.> Maybe I'm a bit hypo today...oh well. I was just sitting here thinking, "you know--all of the poets and artists I liked when I was young ended up being bipolar!"
>
> There was one poem in particular that really stuck out to me. It was called "Second April" by Edna St. Vincent Millay. I even did an illuminated letter of it in my calligraphy class. Here's another good one. It's always good to know that the poets knew exactly what true depression and pain feels like.
>
> Here's a link to a good one:
> http://www.everypoet.com/archive/poetry/Edna_St_Vincent_Millay/edna_st_vincent_millay_second_april_the_death_of_autumn.htm----
Re: Hello gals...
Posted by fluffy on November 7, 2003, at 17:50:41
In reply to Re: Hello gals..., posted by katia on November 7, 2003, at 15:42:07
Hi Katia--
Sounds like you are identifying that you are just having a hard time now, and at the very least, it's "half the battle".
Gosh--you said some pretty profound stuff. I'll have to go through it again tomorrow. I'm about to leave work for the day, and I have no e-mail at home.
Give Lithium a go if your thyroid isn't messed up. I don't seem to have typical reactions to drugs, so my experience is the minority. If it makes you feel awful, there are still other "gold standards".
Anyway...as for your friend. I've found out that this past year, there are friends who understand, and friends who don't understand depression, mood disorders, etc... If your friend is making comments like "depression isn't real (or implying it), then maybe she should just be a buddy. You know, just someone you hang with. Unfortunately, a couple of my friends who couldn't/wouldn't understand the crap I was going through just had to get the boot. I didn't tell them off or anything, I just stopped calling, or they got tired of being around a depressed person. Now I think..oh well..I can't deal with someone like that long term anyway! But I HAVE found that going through this has made some of my friendships STRONGER! With those friends, they feel more comfortable confiding in me about their insecurities, and there seems to be a tighter bond than before.
So maybe just let her know that you want her to understand the immensity of this in your life, and that you feel like sometimes she is brushing it off. ??? I've tried this with the psychologist friend of mine (do you remember my delemma?) and well, it didn't work. I haven't talked to her in 3 months, and frankly, I'm just glad to have other friends I've gained through this horrible adventure.
I know REALLY WELL about the acting job. It really hurts at first. You want to tell everyone how bad you feel. Over time, I have just decided which ones to tell, and which ones not. If someone sees that I'm looking rather morose, and asks, "what's wrong?", I'll just say..I'm kinda down right now...having a hard time. I don't tell them, "I'm bipolar, and I'm having a horrible depression!" Most people don't even notice anyway.
It helps to get out and talk to people to some extent. But when the acting feels like too much, then take it easy. It's very tiring to keep smiling when your mind doesn't want you to. I'm just figuring out this balance.
I hope I helped.
Take care Katia,Katy
----
Re: Hello gals... » fluffy
Posted by katia on November 7, 2003, at 18:14:33
In reply to Re: Hello gals..., posted by fluffy on November 7, 2003, at 17:50:41
You did help very much.
You also inspired me with that poem. I wrote two rather long ones today!
I'll write more later too as I'm rushing off TO work.
take care,
katia
This is the end of the thread.
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