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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 6:48:15
For me anyway. I've been working hard all week, and feeling worse emotionally. True, I drop to sleep exhausted, but my sleep is restless. My anxiety may have dropped, but my depression is rising.
When I'm working I'm not thinking about anything but the work. But later, I'm thinking about how lonely I am (I guess we all are). About how there are so many things that people just don't want to hear. About how if you're productive, people don't care about anything else. About how that's especially true in my marriage. About how the only place I can really be honest about who I am and what I feel is in therapy. And about how very sad that is.
I suspect that maybe the internal energy that shows itself as anxiety also is somehow protective against the low mood that flourishes when increased physical exertion depletes the energy.
Just a theory.
Posted by chicklet on September 1, 2003, at 9:01:06
In reply to Exercise is way overrated, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 6:48:15
Mornin', Dinah
i guess the stress of working really hard overpowers the joy of accomplishment sometimes, huh? Aw, your poor little body is just teliing you it's had enough. Restless day= restless sleep, i think...no matter how easily you FALL asleep.>And about how very sad that is.
That is, Dinah. it's so sad. I'm sorry. i wish I could say something to make you feel better but i haven't really followed your husband stories.>> I suspect that maybe the internal energy that shows itself as anxiety also is somehow protective against the low mood that flourishes when increased physical exertion depletes the energy.
>
I suppose you usually figure yourself out better than anyone else can by the end of your posts!
I admire your introspection,
I'll be thinking about you today...
Karen
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 9:27:36
In reply to Oh everything is overrated! » Dinah, posted by chicklet on September 1, 2003, at 9:01:06
LOL. Yes, I suppose everything is overrated. My theory is just a theory. Probably wrong like most of my over-tired theories are. :) And you're right, my poor body is crying for a rest. And a chance to recuperate from miscellaneous cuts, scrapes and mysterious bruises. I should have Phase I and II finished tonight and I have husband's permission to rest before somehow disposing of the excess mud. And everything else will have to wait for my next burst of energy sometime in the next few years.
Husband. Typical, I suppose. Or maybe not. I don't have much to compare it to. Part of me thinks he's smart, funny, and my best friend. Part of me wants to run away from home to get away from him. It's better than my parent's marriage though.
Posted by fallsfall on September 1, 2003, at 11:51:15
In reply to Exercise is way overrated, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 6:48:15
Can I make a copy of this and send it to my old therapist? She honestly believed that everything would be all better if I would get some exercise. That was ALWAYS her first solution.
> For me anyway. I've been working hard all week, and feeling worse emotionally. True, I drop to sleep exhausted, but my sleep is restless. My anxiety may have dropped, but my depression is rising.
> But later, I'm thinking about how lonely I am (I guess we all are). About how there are so many things that people just don't want to hear.Are we the only ones who have things that people don't want to hear? Do the healthy people not have secrets and pains and shame? Is that what makes them different from us? Or do we just want someone to understand our pain so we don't have to be alone? Do they have pain that doesn't make them lonely?
My therapists (both of them) tell me to spend more time with "healthy" people. But I am drawn to the "unhealthy" ones because they care and want to understand. Do the "healthy" people have the same pains that we do, but they just ignore them?
> About how if you're productive, people don't care about anything else. About how that's especially true in my marriage.
Or is it that when you are NOT productive, they don't care about anything except making you productive? CBT still feels to me like "play act the role and you'll eventually fool yourself into thinking that it is true." Your husband has many wonderful qualities, I wish he could understand a little of your pain.
> About how the only place I can really be honest about who I am and what I feel is in therapy. And about how very sad that is.
Make a bunch of "crazy" friends and expand your circle! (Join a support group, lol)
>
> I suspect that maybe the internal energy that shows itself as anxiety also is somehow protective against the low mood that flourishes when increased physical exertion depletes the energy.
>
> Just a theory.What a sentance! I had to read it 4 times before I understood. But I think you could very well be right. I think that anxiety is protective. All I can think of is labor pains - and when you tighten muscles (i.e. anxiety) against the pains that it makes you feel like you are in control. But really the way to get through it is to "accept" the pain (wow, this is as close as I will ever get to mindfulness!).
I'm very impressed with what you got done. I think you should now enjoy a well deserved rest.
(and I'll go take my dogs for a walk because you made me feel guilty about exercise.)
Posted by Tabitha on September 1, 2003, at 13:41:42
In reply to Exercise is way overrated, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 6:48:15
Loneliness, depression, and anxiety. It goes round and round doesn't it? I'm in the soup with you these days. My therapist just seems like a nag to me lately, so I'm not feeling close to anyone.I'm sorry all your physical exercise isn't at least helping you sleep. I've been doing a lot of housework, moving stuff around, putting together furniture, curtains, etc, and I notice how weak all my muscles are. They get fatigued almost immediatly with any exertion, so all exercise is uncomfortable. I remember when I took up jogging, it was just so exhausting, and I thought I'd get accustomed to it, but I never did. It was always exhausting. I never enjoyed any exercise except for gentle yoga. Walking is OK for me too.
I was reading up on attachment theory lately, trying to get to the bottom of the painful loneliness that is my constant companion lately. I'm getting so familiar with the feeling. I really feel like a little child, scared in my bed, wanting to be picked up and comforted, but nobody is there, so eventually I withdraw, shut down, and turn inward. I wonder if that isn't the root of all my introverted, self-obsessed, depressive personality. What to do with this insight, I don't know. I'm trying to just feel the loneliness fully.
BTW thanks for the reminder that married people can feel lonely too. I've been blaming it all on my single childless state.
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 17:35:08
In reply to Re: Exercise is way overrated, posted by Tabitha on September 1, 2003, at 13:41:42
>
> Loneliness, depression, and anxiety. It goes round and round doesn't it? I'm in the soup with you these days. My therapist just seems like a nag to me lately, so I'm not feeling close to anyone.
>
Ugh. I hate that. We don't have to pay someone to nag us. :( We have to pay someone to nurture us! Gosh, I depress myself.
> I'm sorry all your physical exercise isn't at least helping you sleep. I've been doing a lot of housework, moving stuff around, putting together furniture, curtains, etc, and I notice how weak all my muscles are. They get fatigued almost immediatly with any exertion, so all exercise is uncomfortable. I remember when I took up jogging, it was just so exhausting, and I thought I'd get accustomed to it, but I never did. It was always exhausting. I never enjoyed any exercise except for gentle yoga. Walking is OK for me too.
>
I never get to enjoy it. I get physically used to it. I did once enjoy aerobics, but I think that's because it helped me maintain a weight I was happy with. Where did those days go? I still remember doing the stretches to Islands in the Stream, and what did we do the doggie things with? I don't recall. But when I listen to an oldies station, I get the strangest urges.> I was reading up on attachment theory lately, trying to get to the bottom of the painful loneliness that is my constant companion lately. I'm getting so familiar with the feeling. I really feel like a little child, scared in my bed, wanting to be picked up and comforted, but nobody is there, so eventually I withdraw, shut down, and turn inward. I wonder if that isn't the root of all my introverted, self-obsessed, depressive personality. What to do with this insight, I don't know. I'm trying to just feel the loneliness fully.
>
What does your therapist think of attachment theory? I don't know all that much about it. Maybe you could start a thread on Psychological Babble? I do know what you mean about wanting to be comforted. I'm an endless pit of need for that.> BTW thanks for the reminder that married people can feel lonely too. I've been blaming it all on my single childless state.
>
Yeah, it's just a different sort of lonely. :(
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 17:35:47
In reply to Re: Exercise is way overrated, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 17:35:08
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 18:01:44
In reply to Re: Exercise is way overrated » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on September 1, 2003, at 11:51:15
Ugh. I just wrote a long post, and hit some button I shouldn't have and lost most of it. :(
> Can I make a copy of this and send it to my old therapist? She honestly believed that everything would be all better if I would get some exercise. That was ALWAYS her first solution.
I hate CBT. I really do. I use it, but I hate it. The answers seem so simple. But in reality, they seldom are. Does exercise make you feel better? Or can you only exercise when you are feeling better so that it looks like the exercise worked?
>> Are we the only ones who have things that people don't want to hear? Do the healthy people not have secrets and pains and shame? Is that what makes them different from us? Or do we just want someone to understand our pain so we don't have to be alone? Do they have pain that doesn't make them lonely?
>
> My therapists (both of them) tell me to spend more time with "healthy" people. But I am drawn to the "unhealthy" ones because they care and want to understand. Do the "healthy" people have the same pains that we do, but they just ignore them?
>
I suspect they may be better at keeping the secrets from themselves. Or at least that's true if my husband is "healthy". Which of course he isn't, but maybe no one is. I'm trying to remember if the subject ever came up in late night chats with my healthier school friends. I'm thinking maybe it did and they stared at me blankly. One called me long after - when she heard I had a baby. She remembered those talks and wanted to share her experiences postpartum, in case I was having trouble. I think that was extraordinarily nice of her. We kept in touch sporadically. She's dead now. One of two of my relatively small circle (ten or so) of friends who died by age forty.And maybe that's the advantage of friendship with people who aren't "healthy" in the traditional sense. No one got it at all. And here was someone who I hadn't heard from in fifteen years, calling to share her pain so that I could talk about mine if I needed to. And we ended up laughing about things that weren't funny in the least. She had been sick for a while by then, but had such a great attitude towards both her physical illness and the emotional problems caused by it and by the drugs she had to take.
> Or is it that when you are NOT productive, they don't care about anything except making you productive? CBT still feels to me like "play act the role and you'll eventually fool yourself into thinking that it is true." Your husband has many wonderful qualities, I wish he could understand a little of your pain.
I think he may understand that I feel it. He just doesn't like it. It frustrates him that he can't fix it.
>
> > About how the only place I can really be honest about who I am and what I feel is in therapy. And about how very sad that is.
>
> Make a bunch of "crazy" friends and expand your circle! (Join a support group, lol)
>
I'm not even sure my "crazy" friends want to hear it. :) It's no wonder that therapy is so important to me....
> >
> > I suspect that maybe the internal energy that shows itself as anxiety also is somehow protective against the low mood that flourishes when increased physical exertion depletes the energy.
> >
> > Just a theory.
>
> What a sentance! I had to read it 4 times before I understood. But I think you could very well be right. I think that anxiety is protective. All I can think of is labor pains - and when you tighten muscles (i.e. anxiety) against the pains that it makes you feel like you are in control. But really the way to get through it is to "accept" the pain (wow, this is as close as I will ever get to mindfulness!).
>
Can I enjoy it vicariously? I'm not sure I'll ever get that close. :) I'm still balking at the very idea of wise mind.> I'm very impressed with what you got done. I think you should now enjoy a well deserved rest.
>
> (and I'll go take my dogs for a walk because you made me feel guilty about exercise.)
>
>
How did the walk go? I didn't get as much done as I had hoped. But partly that was because I decided to spend some time with my poor son, who's been entertaining himself while I worked.
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 18:02:16
In reply to Re: Exercise is way overrated, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 18:01:44
Posted by gabbix2 on September 1, 2003, at 19:33:30
In reply to Re: Above for Fallsfall ^^^^^^ (nm), posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 18:02:16
It is charming Dinah it really truly is.
Now I know why people find my double posting funny.
Posted by fallsfall on September 1, 2003, at 20:02:40
In reply to Re: Exercise is way overrated, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 18:01:44
Exercise NEVER makes me feel better. When I was in shape and could skate I would skate at lunch time and it was so much fun that I wouldn't mind being weak and sore and sweaty. These days the only exercise I enjoy is walking the dogs with a friend - the conversation takes my mind off the fact that I'm walking.
The dogs and I had a nice walk today. It was cool enough so I drip sweat into my eyes. The dogs sniffed here and there. Sterling annointed every blade of grass we passed. Patches rolled in, fortunately, nothing that I could see. She has such a good time doing that. Patches practiced her "Quiet" when the couple with the baby in a stroller ran past.
>> It frustrates him that he can't fix it.
Don't YOU wish he could fix it, too!
I think it doesn't get more important than spending time with your son.
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 20:16:28
In reply to Re: Above for Fallsfall ^^^^^^ » Dinah, posted by gabbix2 on September 1, 2003, at 19:33:30
And thanks for the smile. I needed that.
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 20:49:44
In reply to Re: Exercise is way overrated » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on September 1, 2003, at 20:02:40
Walking the dogs sounds like fun exercise. Especially with a friend. At least when it's not horrendously hot, it would.
And spending time with my son was delightful. We played cards, and I'm trying to figure out if he cheats as much when he plays with friends as he does when he plays with family. :) Still, I have to admire the way he stacks the deck at the tender age of seven. I suggested we play a different game the other day, which would require that I shuffle the cards he had arranged. The look on his face was priceless! He had configured the entire deck so that his grandfather was doomed to a swift defeat at Battle. He only agreed to learning a different game if we played with a different deck. Then he gleefully trounced his grandfather at Battle, as planned.
Posted by fallsfall on September 1, 2003, at 21:46:10
In reply to Re: Exercise is way overrated » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 20:49:44
I'll remember that if he ever asks me to play. Pretty smart to be able to arrange the deck at age 7. Maybe he'll be a magician??
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 14:44:09
In reply to Exercise is way overrated, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 6:48:15
Dinah,
What have you done to me? I'm here reading your post and thinking "how true, how true". My husband doesn't love me for me. He loves having someone to take care of him, and someone to complain about and be critical of.Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I'm gonna eat some worms.
:(
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 14:55:30
In reply to Re: Exercise is way overrated, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2003, at 17:35:08
>I never get to enjoy it. I get physically used to it. I did once enjoy aerobics, but I think that's because it helped me maintain a weight I was happy with. Where did those days go? I still remember doing the stretches to Islands in the Stream, and what did we do the doggie things with? I don't recall. But when I listen to an oldies station, I get the strangest urges.
>
OHMIGOSH! That's so funny. I used to listen to Michael Bolton every time I had dental work done. Now, when I hear him, I have the urge to open my mouth. ROFLMAOKDi in Texas
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2003, at 16:02:10
In reply to Re: Exercise is way overrated » Dinah, posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 14:55:30
LOL. Makes me glad my dentist plays Muzak. I'm not likely to remember that outside the chair.
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