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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 16, 2003, at 8:24:00
[from http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030411/msgs/219670.html]
> Maybe this post is supposed to be in a different forum - but who better to ask and talk to than everyone here in the med section.
>
> About 9 months ago I revealed to my supervisor my involvement in the VNS implant study and explained briefly about my severe clinical depression because it was effecting my work more and more.
>
> "Luckily" - I guess one could say - my supervisor was great and even tald me about a family member of hers who suffered the same.
>
> I certainly didn't want special treatment - but calling in sick more and more wasn't looking the best - especially to my other manager who became more and more frsutrated with my spotty appearences at work.
>
> After a couple months, all three of us had a meeting to discuss how we could make things better for all. They were really great about everything and will ing to help accomidate any needs in comliance w/ the ADA. Soon afterwards, they gave me a computer for home so I could work from home on days when the darkness became too visible.
>
> I wish I had a happy ending....however, in the past 2-3 months my manager has been increasingly drustrated with me due to a "lack of communication" on the days I opt to work from home. She and I had a meeting about this and I certainly agreed that I needed to convey things in a better way. We agreed on some loose arrangements for working from home.....let me stress the word "loose."
>
> The reason I am posting this here due to a couple of reasons:
> 1) To get any and all advice, experiences w/ workplace depression, etc.
> 2) To get some advice about how to convey some of my medications make me extremely hungover in the morning, etc - but without giving away my whole medical history.
> ...
>
> With severe budget cuts looming over our dept. my anxiety level is sky-high constantly. But I am one of those employees who has specific duties that only I know how to do - which helps to save my butt. However, I come in a 8 am and work until 6:30-7pm everyday. NO LUNCH. I don't get comp time NOR do I ask. I just have soooo much to do, and a lot of it is that "behind-the-scenes" work - you know - not relly yielding consistant results - make sense?
>
> Anyway, these past weeks my anxiety is horrible because my research docs want me to see a new psych doc (ugh) and it jusst seems like none my of meds are helping at all - minus the dexedrine and xanax. Plus, my manager tells me to delegate some of my less important duties (like making a bulletin board - yeah - a bulletin board) to students - and I have been able to delegate a small amount. Long story short - I am responsible for many things that my manager sees as "not rocket-science" (when they actually kinda are because she still doesn't know how to trurn on her computer) and I can't get ahead...I'm tired...I'm filled with hate....I'm anxious...I take my work home with me and nevber seem to get anywhere. And IF I actually DO finish a project - most likely I won't get any direct priase - it usually goes to the tech guys (one of whom I helped train and his position is above mine).
>
> Here are my questions-
> 1) How can I call into work and explain I'm not doing well without going into detail?
> 2) How do I deal with supervisors/manager who give me a "that's a no-no" after a day or two of me being at home due to depression.
> 3) I take some very sedating meds jus tto be able to sleep - and I don't want to tell my manager any of this because I have gotten a clear signals that, while she has said she worries about me, she has no clue what depression is or how it effects mood, etc.
> 4) What do I need to do to NOT feel guilty if I decide to stay home and work? Even tho at our very first meeting w/ my manager and top supervisor - said they completely understand. However, every time I come back to work after being "sick" I get this passive-aggressive attitude from them. Once, my supervisor emailed me and said she was disappointed because I had chosen to take off a day that was very busy for the dept. and many arrangement had to be made to cover my shift. Well, I wrote back to her reminding her that I had an experimental IMPLANT in my chest and I do not have control over how/when it works or needs to be fine-tuned. After that message she calmed down.
>
> As a said before - budget cuts looming and layoffs a very real possibility - I need to protect myself. I've been told my both manger and supervisor that I "do exceptional work," many times. It's all a mess - but it isn't. Th main prob is with my direct manager - she makes comments like "I know it's not the greatest to have your illness- like not feeling like doing things and stuff...." Yeah - she said that.
>
> Anyway, I just don't want to use my depression and/or treatment as a scapegoat - but it certainly does effect things.
>
> I have an appointment to see one of our Employee Asst. counselors tomorrow along with a specialist with Disability Services.
>
> I really really do great work - but it's alot of stuff they don't or won't see directly. If they lay me off -I don' t know what I would do...
>
> Sorry for such a terribly long email. I don't know if it makes any sense at all - I'm just so worried and mad and burned out.
>
> Anyone? Anyone w/ similar experiences? advice? anything!
>
> Here are my meds:
> Seroquel 300mg/night for sleep
> 80mg Dexedrine spansules (2 cap. 4 times a day)
> Lexapro 40mg (I think?)
> Xanax - .5mg 3x daily
> Ambien - 20mg for sleep
> Omega-3/6 fish oil concentrate -3-5grams/daily
> Androgel 5mg topical
> Hydrocortisone - 10mg in the morn
>
> I also take ahandful of meds for asthma, GERD, and adult acne.
>
> Oh - and my Borg implant.
>
> So....there it is...*sigh*.........help.......
>
> Jerry......
Posted by Miller on April 16, 2003, at 8:57:47
In reply to Depression, meds, working, supervisor « jerrympls, posted by Dr. Bob on April 16, 2003, at 8:24:00
Jerry,
I am sorry to hear you are having such a rough time. My job is not going so well either. I took a month off work to get my life together. During that time I was in the hospital (involuntarily) due to a suicide attempt (or two). When I got back, I thought my job would be more sensitive to my illness. Just the opposite. One day I made a really stupid mistake. The office manager said "That's all we need--another relapse." Yup. I feel really comfortable here.
I wish I could give advise or encouraging words. I just don't have them. Hang in there.
-Miller
Posted by noa on April 16, 2003, at 9:49:08
In reply to Re: Depression, meds, working, supervisor « jerrympls, posted by Miller on April 16, 2003, at 8:57:47
The office manager said "That's all we need--another relapse."
Document that stuff. Just keep a notebook, just in case.
Posted by leeran on April 16, 2003, at 10:33:18
In reply to Re: Depression, meds, working, supervisor « jerrympls » Miller, posted by noa on April 16, 2003, at 9:49:08
The office manager said "That's all we need--another relapse."
I agree, keep a record! I'm in total awe that someone could be so insensitive! I wonder if this person would have the nerve to say this to someone who had just gone through chemotherapy - or had an amputation?
People. Or more accurately, some people.
I'm really sorry to hear you had to endure that in the workplace.
Posted by Kar on April 16, 2003, at 12:22:10
In reply to Depression, meds, working, supervisor « jerrympls, posted by Dr. Bob on April 16, 2003, at 8:24:00
Jerry- my story is very similar to yours. At first my boss was understanding. I'm a speech therapist and work with kids (and families with problems) so the boss was sensitive to stuff like this. I didn't want to tell her at all at first and tried my damndest to get around it...even made up more "acceptable and understandable" excuses like bronchitis, fender bender etc. Oh yeah I was creative! But eventually it got to the point where I had to have a sit down with her. i'm so pissed still (after 2 years not working) that it's extra extra hard for us because of our illness. They say that the stigma is lessening but I don't know. And really it's a viscious circle because we keep quiet and try to hide it because we think THEY will not understand and will think less of us.
In my job I made home visits and had to repeatedly cancel. Telling parents that I wasn't coming, esp. if it had happened often, made them understandably frustrated. Sometimes my boss didn't know if I rescheduled a visit for the end of the week so that was good. I could only tread water for so long though. Like you, I was at the time in the middle of switching meds and it seemed nothing was working.
My empoyers were also willing to be flexible by letting me cut down my caseload and then I had to try Part time. but I knew that even part-time wasn't going to work because when you feel crappy, you really feel crappy. God I don't even feel as if they knew me or knew what I was capable of because I was bad the whole time. And I knew it and couldn't change it.
>medications make me extremely hungover in the morning, etc - but without giving away my whole medical history.
Well they already know about the depression right? You aren't obligated to say any more than that. You may feel that they want to know more and don't get it, but telling them even more (in my experience) isn't that great an idea. I had a boss once with whom I was very close and she knew nearly my whole history but she was someone I trusted and she understood.
SOunds to me as if you really don't have the option, with your responsibilities, to go PT? I know when I felt awful with the depression, I felt even worse knowing that i wasn't living up to my (or their) expectations. That just adds to it.
How bad are your days? I know what you wrote and I don't mean to sound shallow, but it sounds as if you do still manage, even though you're just barely keeping your head above water? i just got to a point where I could not do it anymore. It wasn't fair to me or them. But as you said, you're the one who knows this material so no one can "sub". That's a double edged sword I guess because you won't get fired but you can't take short term disability easily either.
>1) How can I call into work and explain I'm not doing well without going into detail?
I found that *I* was the one that thought they needed to know more. Like I felt like I needed to go into detail. i guess that's why I fibbed so much! Depends on your job...can you just call in and say you're "sick"? As I said earlier, you are under no obligation to say more than that. I think there are some people on the board that relly knows the laws. I was on disability but someone else can help you more.
>2) How do I deal with supervisors/manager who As someone said, write absolutely every comment down Really. I think someone said that they wouldn't give you any crap if you had cancer. The thing with me is that i really wasn't (couldn't) doing my job up to standards so if I'd been let go (even though it was due to my depression) they would've had grounds. What exactly fdo they say when you get a "no-no"? That's unacceptable. What a crock. You're gettint me fired up, Larry! :D
>depression is or how it effects mood, etc.
Depends how comfortable you are with her. When I was in school I provided my supervisor with very clear cut scientific-looking (but simple) info on depression. And she appreciated and and said she learned something. However it still really doesn't change the problem. Yes you have a reason, but regardless, you're job is being affected.4) What do I need to do to NOT feel guilty if I decide to stay home and work?
When you find out, let me know!
Do you have the opportunity to work ALL from home? Maybe you have a little more leverage because you're the important dude?Sorry so long...it's a hot topic...
Take care
Karen
Posted by wendy b. on April 16, 2003, at 12:49:49
In reply to Depression, meds, working, supervisor « jerrympls, posted by Dr. Bob on April 16, 2003, at 8:24:00
Jerry,
If you wanted to, you could send me your email. I have a lot I could tell you about, but not publicly...
Let me know if you'd like to talk,
Wendy
Posted by mags on April 16, 2003, at 17:58:54
In reply to Re: Depression, meds, working, supervisor - Jerry, posted by wendy b. on April 16, 2003, at 12:49:49
Hi Jerry,
I understand so much of what you are saying.I have been there and I eventually went on disabilty...I was tired of making excuses, letting people down, guilt and the sideways glances(real or imagined). I am very lucky to have coverage from work.I get 70% of my salary.You mentioned talking to a disabilty rep...does that mean you have coverage if you have to go off on sick leave? If so perhaps that would be an option for awhile.....?
One note of caution: I have found it difficult not working as there is a sense of being less of a person, and not having a reason to get up in the morning. I also am scared now to go back to work if I get better, since I have lost all confidence in my self. I was in public relations, gave presentations, speaches, training etc. and now I avoid most social contact!
Mags
Posted by Alara on April 18, 2003, at 3:34:12
In reply to Depression, meds, working, supervisor « jerrympls, posted by Dr. Bob on April 16, 2003, at 8:24:00
Sorry that you have had to go through this, Jerry. I had my first experience with depression and anxiety while trying to hold down a demanding job too and can really relate to your post.It might help you to take an objective look at some of the issues you outlined:
1. You're facing an every day struggle to function in a demanding workplace while taking heavy medication which does not seem to be doing the job.
2. You suffer from excessive debilitating guilt - a part of your depression.
3. You feel misunderstood by your manager, resulting in (also debilitating) feelings of alienation and isolation.
4. You are in conflict about your own competing needs: You need special accomodations but don't at the same time you don't want to be treated any differently than anybody else. You want to keep your dignity. (I may be projecting here due to my own past experience.)
5. There is a temptation to avoid all these competing pressures by working from home. (Right now it might seem like the only solution but I am not at all sure that this will help you in the long term.)
6. Your depression and anxiety are being exacerbated by fear of losing your job.
Whoa, Jerry! You are on a lot of meds. I'm surprised that you are able to function at all. You said that the combination is not working for you. Would it be possible to work from home (for the short term only) while you taper off some of the meds? I am not a med expert at all but am wondering whether you would need a stim all if you cut out the Ambien and reduced your dose of Lexapro and Xanax. You might be able to accomplish this if you spent a month or so working from home. (You will find good advice on this issue on the Psychobabble board.)Don't isolate yourself at home for too long. You need to keep up a certain level of social interaction. I worked from home for over a year before accepting a job in a busy office. I had to learn how to deal with a stressful environment all over again and went through a lengthy adjustment period. (I have really only just started to feel comfortable in the office after 4 months of working there!)
You taken a good step in making an appointment with the Employee Assistance counselor. Don't worry too much about what to tell your supervisor meanwhile. Maybe you can devise a plan with the counselor and your doctor. You will feel less guilty about this if you have the support of these two people.
If you manage to reduce your meds, you will win half the battle of getting to work. You can win the other half of the battle if you remind yourself that a day is just a day. Stop working such long hours and give yourself a proper lunch break. (I am so much more productive if I go home for a power nap at lunch time once or twice a week. :-) ) Oh yeah: And stop putting unreasonable demands on yourself. You are only human.
One last thought: Would it really be the worst thing in the world to lose your job? Of course you want to keep it if you can, but never underestimate the value of your health.
End of sermon. :-)
All the best, Jerry.
Alara
Posted by jerrympls on April 21, 2003, at 20:59:02
In reply to Re: Depression, meds, working, supervisor « jerrympls » Dr. Bob, posted by Alara on April 18, 2003, at 3:34:12
You all have posted such wonderful responses! I completely identify with what you all have posted as your experiences and thoughts on what I may be experiencing too.
I thought I'd give some general responses and tell you what has happened recently -
-I've come to realize that I am almost in a paralizing state of anxiety and guilt - at work it's a bit less, but at home it's worse- I keep focusing on what my supervisor MAY be thinking, projects that I've kept too long on the back burner, etc....ugh..NOT healthy
-After speaking with an Employee Asst. couselor and Disability Services, I found out that I've told my supervisors too much already-ex: I could have gotten by with "I'm sick today, but can work from home..." instead of "Due to a new treatment option I'm going to be home today..." etc... so, now, of course, I compulsively worry that I may have done too much "damage" while revealing more than I had too - but I can't go back and change the past...so.......?
-We're going through tough budget cuts which will mean layoffs and/or asking certain employees to work 75% or 90% - so of course I'm nervous that I'll either be laid off or asked to work less- this anxiety goes back to my previous point of having already said too much that may have already been somewhat influential in who they've considered for layoff/time- reductions. If it does happen to me - how do I know it's NOT because of what I have already told them about my illness?
-I've come to realize that no one in my area really knows what it is I do exactly - because I do so much background work it's hard to show a finished project. I'm constanly patching holes in this application (I work with computers to some degree) so co-workers can print corrrectly, scheduled/re-scheduled meetings, fix formatting problems on our website, etc. etc etc. Also, many times others are given complete recognition for projects I've had a major hand in - I want to be more assertive about being kept in the loop but how?
-Yes, I am on a handful of meds. I've had a reduction in Lexapro and have had periods of being off Xanax and Ambien- however, I've not seen any difference - as far as feeling drugged, etc - between being on or off them. My case is complex-and am being seen my two pdocs and an endocrinologist - so we'll see. I really wish I could be on only one med....
I think that's about it for now. I REALLY appreciate all of your comments/suggestions/personal experiences - they help SO much!!!
Jerry :-)
Posted by Alara on April 22, 2003, at 8:28:24
In reply to Re: Depression, meds, working, supervisor « jerrympls, posted by jerrympls on April 21, 2003, at 20:59:02
Jerry, you're on the right track. Keep it up and keep us posted. :-)
Posted by noa on April 22, 2003, at 8:31:40
In reply to Re: Depression, meds, working, supervisor « jerrympls, posted by jerrympls on April 21, 2003, at 20:59:02
Jerry, sometimes I feel like I am a "behind the scenes" person, too. I have learned that it is important to let people know what you've accomplished from time to time. I'm not great at it yet, but working on it. So, for example, once or twice in recent months, I dashed off an email to the supervisors saying I've met a deadline or goal, or something ("just wanted to keep you up to date on where I am with this" or " I'm happy to report that I have completed..."). This is something I learned from the advice of an older and wiser co-worker, because we don't get recognition of what we are doing well, but we sure get noticed when something either goes wrong or is perceived to be going wrong or a complaint comes in (valid or not valid).
Since the other issue is staying in the loop, maybe you can do a group email once a week letting people know what you have been working on and also stating your understanding of where things are with what they're doing that affects you, and asking them to confirm or clarify, or just asking for an update from them. Friendly tone and all.
If you initiate something like this, I would meet with the supervisor to discuss with them the plans, because it shows initiative, and that you are committed to making the arrangement work well.
This is the end of the thread.
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