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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cmcdougall on May 1, 2002, at 13:10:09
Dear Babblers,
I already posted in PB, but I wanted to post a little differently here.
May I ask a few questions?
How old were you when you started cutting and what was the triggering incident?
What was your sneakiest way of hiding it?
What events would compel you to cut?
What was your favorite body part to cut?
In hindsight, what could anyone have done to help you?
How can I help my beloved 12 yr old stepdaughter who was recently caught cutting? She has been treated over the past year for VERY serious OCD, and claims this was the first incident of cutting. She cut her upper arm in rage and frustration w/ a pair of scissors after an argument w/ her "best friend".
I know that even thinking about cutting can make you want to do it. PLEASE, DON'T do it now! I want to help this girl in any way I can, and I want to pass along to her mother any advice you can give.
Thank you in advance.
Love and luck,
Carly
Posted by kid_A on May 1, 2002, at 14:49:52
In reply to Any cutters??? Please help my 12yr old, posted by cmcdougall on May 1, 2002, at 13:10:09
hi carly,
first in my experience cutting is typically not a 'plea for help' nor a 'gesture of suicide', it is an outlet for feelings when there seems to be no other alternatives...as i understand it, cutting is more prevalant in girls than in boys by a wide margin...
> How old were you when you started cutting and what was the triggering incident?
probably 16 or a little earlier, anything taumatic could trigger it, but not necisarily some thing specific, it could just be a result of some form of depression...
> What was your sneakiest way of hiding it?
long sleeves, i cut my arms mostly so i couldnt wear short sleeve shirts... cutting other parts of the body are probably easier to conceal
> What events would compel you to cut?
feeling rejected, lonliness, feeling helpless against depression, its not necisarily tied to a reality, like my father beat me so i cut myself, but something in your mind, a feeling of being trapped...
> What was your favorite body part to cut?
arms, mostly left as im right handed...
> In hindsight, what could anyone have done to help you?
this is a hard question to answer because it's difficult to say why some people cut and others don't... it's important to find ways of coping that do not involve cutting, ways that the cutter will be comfortable with, its probable that the cutter allready feels some form of alienation because they have chosen cutting rather than talking about their problems as a means of dealing with them...
it's important not to make the cutter feel worse about the event then they allready do, cutters typically don't 'show off' their work because there is a certain stigma to cutting, and bridging the gap of communication about it is an important but difficult task...
> How can I help my beloved 12 yr old stepdaughter who was recently caught cutting? She has been treated over the past year for VERY serious OCD, and claims this was the first incident of cutting. She cut her upper arm in rage and frustration w/ a pair of scissors after an argument w/ her "best friend".
be understanding, open, unacusatory, try to find ways that you can help this person as a 'friend' not an adult... its not something that will magically go away and there may be other incidents unfortunately, treat the problems that lead to the cutting first, explore new coping mechanisms, thats the best way to prevent it.
good luck
k|A
Posted by paulb on May 1, 2002, at 16:21:59
In reply to Any cutters??? Please help my 12yr old, posted by cmcdougall on May 1, 2002, at 13:10:09
Im very sorry and saddened to hear about your twelve year old stepdaughter.
I will try and answer your questions to the best of my ability.
I never made a habit of cutting but I am sado-masochistic. This started when I was nineteen. The triggering incident was psychological. Because I had suffered from depression I felt ashamed and that life had to be painful.
Ive got a sliced wrist and a long cut on my arm. My sneakiest way of hiding it is by wearing a watch and no t-shirts
Depression would compel me to cut my wrists to kill myself but as I mentioned above I feel life has to be pain. Im a "no pain, no gain" type person
Im not really into cutting. I take cold showers, hit walls etc so I dont have a favourate part of the body to cut.
In hindsight what could have someone done to help me. Thats a difficult one. When I say to a friend I feel like killing myself they dont actually stop me. They say mind how you go?? With a twelve year old its different I would assume. Keep an eye out for knifes going missing, low moods, withdrawal from social activity, counselling, drug therapy. I have a friend who self-harms and the psychiatrist prescribed him Risperidone which is an atypical antipsychotic in addition to his antidepressant because it is supposed to be helpful for people who self-harm.
I would see a specialist because I would guess there are specialists who know specifically about self-harm and its treatment. A book called "Prozac Nation" is about a girl with depression who cuts herself. Your story reminded of that book. You may want to read it.
I really hope things work out.
PaulB
Posted by kid_A on May 1, 2002, at 16:33:19
In reply to Re: Any cutters??? Please help my 12yr old, posted by paulb on May 1, 2002, at 16:21:59
these books are specifically about cuttting, thanks to those who have pointed them out to me....Caroline Kttlewell - "Skin Game"
Marilee Strong - "A Bright Red Scream"...worth the read if only for the 'understanding' factor...
Posted by kid_A on May 1, 2002, at 17:27:01
In reply to other books on cutting that may be of interest..., posted by kid_A on May 1, 2002, at 16:33:19
Posted by Ella on May 2, 2002, at 2:36:25
In reply to Any cutters??? Please help my 12yr old, posted by cmcdougall on May 1, 2002, at 13:10:09
I was 15 when I started cutting, stress, depression, frustration, and isolation triggered it I think. I mostly just cut my shoulder a bit, not that hard to hide.Any upsetting event can bring the compulsion on. When I was depressed and the world seemed to be falling apart cutting would help keep me from getting swept away; it would numb that feeling of panic. It was a way to smash my emotions down and keep on going.
I went to see a counselor and improved my coping skills. So I was helped, kinda.
I still do this kind of stuff when things get really bad, but it isn't a way of life. A few months ago I burnt my lower arm; I just put on long sleeved shirts for a while, and when people ask about the scars I just don't give them a straight answer. No big deal. For me cutting is a knee-jerk reaction, but now I try to step back and find a better way of dealing with the situation. Doesn’t always work but I am doing better.
As for advice, I guess working on making a cutter feel safe enough to express their feelings, feel better about themselves and learn better coping skills are a good ideas, these things have helped me, but of course it is different for each person.
I wish your stepdaughter well on the long road ahead.
Ella Mia
Posted by ecuadoriang on May 2, 2002, at 12:06:44
In reply to Any cutters??? Please help my 12yr old, posted by cmcdougall on May 1, 2002, at 13:10:09
Carly: I just wrote on your other post. please be sure to read it, as I told you there I will be more than glad to help you. Best wishes!
Hugs
Posted by cmcdougall on May 2, 2002, at 13:09:21
In reply to yes! I'm a cutter!, posted by ecuadoriang on May 2, 2002, at 12:06:44
Maybe its my meds kicking in, but right now I am feeling euphoric. The kind words, support, and offers of help are giving me hope and making me cry. I am sharing all your posts w/ my stepdaughter's mom.
I believe this board, and the other PB boards, are truly the kindest and most caring of this type on the web. There really is very little cruelty, and when it shows up Dr. Bob protects us.
Most sincere thanks and lots of love sent your way.
XXX OOO XXX OOOCarly
Posted by Automated Lady on May 2, 2002, at 13:46:29
In reply to Any cutters??? Please help my 12yr old, posted by cmcdougall on May 1, 2002, at 13:10:09
Hi
I'm 24 and probably last cut seriously aged 21 - it just seemed to stop working after that (in the sense that I didn't get the relief from it anymore). So I would firstly say to you that people tend to grow out of cutting, some earlier than others
>
> How old were you when you started cutting and what was the triggering incident?I started aged 15/16 and I can remember doing it after fights with my parents particularly. It was the sense of frustration and being misunderstood and powerless, and this was a way of being powerful. I have to say that I only started doing it because I read about someone else who did it: it would never have ocurred to me otherwise.
> What was your sneakiest way of hiding it?
>
I always wore long sleeves, even in summer.> What events would compel you to cut?
With me there were two main situations: the first was feeling humiliated or ignored or disliked by other people (and, therefore, angry with them, although I didn't see that at the time). I would also cut as a way of relieving feelings of numbness and emptiness when I was depressed.
>
> What was your favorite body part to cut?I always cut my arms. I tried legs, stomach, but it just didn't make me feel good.
> In hindsight, what could anyone have done to help you?
>
I did it, basically, because it made me feel good, and very few things did. I was depressed and no one noticed or seemed to care. I think if I had had help in the form of medication or therapy, or if I had just had more understanding and affection from my family (who dealt with my illness by ignoring it) I would have done it less. In the end, though, I think the less attention that is paid to the actual cutting and the more paid to the reasons behind it, the better. If you make it into a really big deal (and I know this is hard when it's someone you care about) then it can become something that is used to punish (I know this because it happened with my boyfriend when I was in my late teens. Whenever I felt neglected by him I'd cut myself and make sure he saw it. This made me feel even worse about myself, as I knew it was manipulative and cruel, and the whole situation spiralled).> How can I help my beloved 12 yr old stepdaughter who was recently caught cutting?
This is only my opinion, but I really do think that no matter how upsetting and scary it is, you must not focus on the cutting. I always felt very exposed and ashamed when anyone mentioned it to me, and it is a very private thing. She needs to find other ways to deal with her feelings.
I hope this wasn't too long and rambly. I think for most people who cut it really is a passing phase and it may well be for your stepdaughter. there's also a bit of a "craze" for it at the moment, and she may just be "trying it out" and it might not happen again. I think the key is not to panic or focus too much on it.
All the best
AL
Posted by Katt on May 5, 2002, at 17:32:40
In reply to Any cutters??? Please help my 12yr old, posted by cmcdougall on May 1, 2002, at 13:10:09
> How old were you when you started cutting and
> what was the triggering incident?I was 11 or 12. I was at school. I used a drawing compass....the sharp pointy part where you are supposed to use it to pin down paper. The triggering incident: a girl at school would make me her best friend one day, worst enemy the next. It was on a worst enemy day that I did this.
> What was your sneakiest way of hiding it?
Nothing sneaky about it. I cut both forearms and my lower abdomen. I simply wear long sleeve t-shirts during the summer, especially since I am always cold.> What events would compel you to cut?
Well, rejection for sure. Anger, a desire to self-punish, uninhibited sadness to the point I can't stop crying unless blood is dripping down my arm (this is suddenly becoming very tempting to do right now).> What was your favorite body part to cut?
I am now 26 and still cut. My lower abdomen, just above you know where, and both of my forearms and wrists. When cutting at my wrists, I feel like I am killing at least a part of myself.> In hindsight, what could anyone have done to help you?
If it had been caught earlier for me...I don't know. Maybe acknowledgement. I have no idea. This is something I cannot help with since I still cut, often with lethal hopes.
Posted by judy1 on May 6, 2002, at 12:26:14
In reply to I am a cutter, posted by Katt on May 5, 2002, at 17:32:40
Have you gone to a therapist? I have a similar history to you, and it's taken me a good six months of therapy to start to control an action I've done for over 20 years. My therapist, a recovered cutter herself, taught me healthier coping skills- anyone can learn and stop if they truly want to. If you're not ready to stop, you won't. Take care, Judy
Posted by Katt on May 6, 2002, at 12:50:16
In reply to Re: I am a cutter » Katt, posted by judy1 on May 6, 2002, at 12:26:14
>Have you gone to a therapist? I have a similar >history to you, and it's taken me a good six >months of therapy to start to control an action >I've done for over 20 years. My therapist, a >recovered cutter herself, taught me healthier >coping skills- anyone can learn and stop if they >truly want to. If you're not ready to stop, you >won't. Take care, Judy
Saw a psychologist for two years, he became abusive and cutting got worse. Then went to a pdoc for three years, but he dumped me and it got even worse. Seen lots of people on and off, been in DBT - it failed. Haven't had much luck with therapists or therapy in general.
Posted by judy1 on May 6, 2002, at 13:07:28
In reply to Re: I am a cutter, posted by Katt on May 6, 2002, at 12:50:16
and completely understand- this is my 13th or 14th pdoc. I called a bunch of therapists and interviewed them on the phone; and also got books on cutting and landed up being fortunate enough to go to the author of one. I truly hope you find the inner strength to keep looking for a good therp- they ARE out there. I worry because you said you've made lethal cuts (as have I)- and that makes it so much more important. I wish you all the best- Judy
Posted by Lyrical13 on December 26, 2003, at 1:46:04
In reply to Re: Any cutters??? Please help my 12yr old » cmcdougall, posted by kid_A on May 1, 2002, at 14:49:52
I recently found out that my little sister has been cutting. She is 14 and within the past year or so has started taking meds for depression/anxiety. I have been dealing with that for about 13 years or so (more mildly in the years before that) but I never cut. We are just realizing that I am probably BP2 and we both think (along with her doc)that she is some form of BP. She just showed me her arms about a month ago...she's right-handed and there are marks all the way up her left arm...one area where there is a carved circle with a cross in the middle. WE've talked about it, meds, docs, etc...we have weekly Sister NIght where we do dinner and hang out. I am 34 and she is technically my half-sister (same dad, different mom..Dad's 2nd marriage)
Anyway, in the course of our discussions she told me that she's been doing this since 6th grade. (now in 9th) I was floored and didn't know how I never noticed it before...we sail together on my dad's boat and so I see her almost every weekend all summer. She often wears long sleeves and pants but I've seen her in shorts and bathing suits too. A week or so ago she showed me a spot on her leg where she first cut herself in 6th grade. She tells me that it's like an addiction. She's driven to cut..it's like this urge. She hasn't done it in 6 weeks she says...right after she told me that she was diong this and also that she had to stay home from school the previous day because she was having such a rough time and that she had been walking around crying for like an hour that day, I talked to my step-mom and told her that she needed to get into the doc immediately and get her meds adjusted. ( I have told both of my younger sisters that they could always come and talk to me and I wouldn't share what they said with their anyone including parents with one exception..if they were hurting themselves or thinking of hurting themselves) She was into the doc within a few days and had her Trileptal increased and is doing better but I still worry about her. She's on that and Prozac.
I really worry because she quit going to counseling. She quit last year for a while and then this year came home earlier in the fall when she was having a very rough time and asked to talk to someone again. (she was on meds throughout thankfully) I also worry because I've read something about 80% or something of girls who cut have been abused and that it's often associated with molestation. I don't know if that's true or not. I worry that something may have happened to her and of course as big sis I want to protect her from hurt. (I know I can't really but just be there to listen) I don't know if I should ask her about this or just be available to listen any time she needs to talk and trust that if she wants to tell me anything then she will. I have a feeling (I hope I'm wrong) that it's someone we know and someone that she thinks no one would believe her. I would believe her. But I don't want to push her to talk about something she's not comfortable talking about. And She may not be one of the people that this even has happened to. I know also that abuse doesn't have to be so obvious. I know that much of what my mother has said and done over the years is abusive verbally and psychologically but it's on a very subtle sneaky level...in some ways I think that's more difficult to deal with because you're always second guessing...was it bad or not? At any rate, it's amazing that my mom did as well as she did given her history of being abused in a very obvious way in every sense of the word by her mother. I know she was trying with all her might to break the pattern.
I also know that my dad definitely fits the mold of distant critical father...and in our family there are a lot of jokes at other people's expense...and lots of ostriches. Issues don't get discussed. You try to talk to my brother or my dad and they walk out of the room. (my brother acutally said that he thought Sarah cut to get attention. Give me a break!) SO there is definite dysfunction there. (Dad is ACOA and workaholic.. step-mom has definite issues too...which brings me to the next question...Are there any really FUNCTIONAL families?)
Well, I've rambled on long enough. Thanks for listening.
Lyrical13
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