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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Penny on March 27, 2002, at 22:00:23
and crashing and burning. feel like dying. was on cloud nine just this afternoon, and now I'm back in that all too familiar place known as hell.
Saw my pdoc today and he was pleased that I wasn't suicidal, but concerned that I was doing so 'well'. I felt good. Really good. Not "I can fly" good, but almost. And jittery. Like too much nervous energy. And I was soooo productive today. And yesterday. Got so much done at work and at home. And then CRASH.
What do you do when you can't do the only thing in life you really want to do? My dream is to be a doctor. Was always interested in obstetrics, but find myself (understandably!) drawn to psychiatry now, due to my own experiences with stupid pdocs who didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and from watching my nine-year-old cousin go in and out of mental hospitals last year, to only end up with about a billion different diagnoses from a billion different pdocs. I know there are good docs out there (Dr. Bob), but I think they are few and far between in the field of psychiatry.
Anyway, I had an exam tonight in one of my prerequisite premed classes. I have a degree in journalism, which was about as rebellious as I ever tried to be (my dad is engineering minded, and my goal was to be as unlike him as possible. So anything math & science related was out for about 6 years). Never really wanted a desk job, but thought I could tolerate it. I can't. I hate it. I want to work with people. I want to help people.
But I'm too damn stupid. STUPID. Yeah, so I made it through college with a lovely liberal arts degree. But I can't handle a math test, can't remember the most basic things. And it should be easy. And I understand the concepts. But can't CAN'T remember the formulas. How the hell do I think I'm ever going to make it to med school?
Guess it doesn't really matter. I truly believe that I'm fighting a losing battle with depression, or bipolar, or whatever the hell I am now. Earlier today I would have told you otherwise. But right now I'm back in the pit of despair and really don't see any way out.
And paged my pdoc tonight to let him know...
Penny
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2002, at 0:20:59
In reply to I'm falling apart......................, posted by Penny on March 27, 2002, at 22:00:23
Hi Penny,
I know the feeling. Believe me.
Are you changing meds right now? That is always very destabilizing. And your therapist being out is destabilizing too.
I remember my college math days well. Calculus and chemistry about did me in. I could grab hold of the meaning for a few minutes or hours and then it would slip away. I had so many a-ha moments in those classes, but they just didn't stick. I gave up and dropped pre-vet, but I certainly don't advocate that anyone else do the same. But at any rate you don't have to decide right now...
Hang in there. It will get better. And then it will get worse. And then it will get better again. Sorry. I'm really not very good with words of encouragement. Those could certainly use some work. :)
Hope your pdoc was able to help you more than I can.
Take care,
Dinah
Posted by Zo on March 28, 2002, at 6:47:49
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart...................... » Penny, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2002, at 0:20:59
This man has a medical license? Whoa.
I hope by the time you read this you are out of that hole, and my wish is for you to get your butt on Lamictal ASAP, that sharp rapid cycling is seriously bad juju, not something to be taken lightly.
Waht can I do to help? I could help you track this--you could keep a diary during the day noting when you go up and when you go down--just that. It will help your inner self remember these swings, no matter how persuasive, are something that is happening TO you, they are not you. . .they are not really your thoughts, they are the product of electrical transmission gone haywire. . and when are you seeing a doctor? Do you have anyone besides this , um, jerk?
Zo
Posted by fi on March 28, 2002, at 7:27:22
In reply to I'm falling apart......................, posted by Penny on March 27, 2002, at 22:00:23
Sounds tough.
Seems like 2 separate things- one that your mood is swinging about and you're having to slog on thru that (hopefully with help).
And the one about wanting to be a doctor. I know it may sound trite- sorry- but have you thought a bit wider? Medical school is packed with a vast amount of studying, including lots of science, and a load of stress.
Its clear you want to work with people- there are a range of other 'helping professions' which aren't so tough academically (tho may well be stressful) like psychiatric nursing, social work, physical or occupational therapy, speech therapy etc etc Plus all the variations of psychotherapist/counsellor.
Then there's loads of things you can do to help others as a volunteer, which you can do straight away once your mood has stabilised, like befriending or helping with practical tasks.
I do realise none of these roles has the power and responsibility of medicine, and that you particularly want to do that.
Good luck, and look after yourself.
Fi
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2002, at 7:41:41
In reply to Re: Penny!!! Yes, you! » Dinah, posted by Zo on March 28, 2002, at 6:47:49
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2002, at 12:03:37
In reply to Re: Thank you for your concern (nm) » Zo, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2002, at 7:41:41
I saw my name in the subject line on the post from Zo and thought it was directed towards me. But now that I've actually read the post, it's clear that it was directed towards you.
Soo... Sorry. Didn't mean to respond to a post directed to you.
I hope you're feeling better today.
Posted by k9lover on March 28, 2002, at 12:21:55
In reply to I'm falling apart......................, posted by Penny on March 27, 2002, at 22:00:23
I too am in a dark place... It can't be normal to think about suicide all the time can it? I wander out of it every so often, only to return a few minutes later. Do others go through this?
Jan
Posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 12:45:22
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart...................... » Penny, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2002, at 0:20:59
Thank you, Dinah.
I'm at work, hangin' in. I'm certainly no worse off than in the past. If anything, I think the thyroid augmentation is helping my energy level.
My pdoc called me about 10 minutes after I paged him last night. He's still holding out some hope that thyroid will work with the ADs, but said we might need to add a mood stabilizer (as both Zo & JohnX2 have said!) to work with that. Seeing that this is a holiday weekend, I think I will page him today and talk to him about it. I do trust his judgment, tho'.
I guess my frustration with my own self is that I feel like I SHOULD be capable of learning whatever I put my mind to learning. But then I get so depressed and sometimes I just don't care. And I wonder if I'm sabotaging myself. My therapist has mentioned that in the past regarding many things. I joined Weight Watchers about 1 1/2 years ago, and lost 30 lbs. But then couldn't lose anymore (needed to lose about 60-70). And now I've gained nearly all of it back after quitting weight watchers. She asks me what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of EVERYTHING. Job changes, living situations, men, being too 'smart', not being smart enough, etc. etc. etc.
I guess I'm just wondering now if I really can become a doctor even if I devote myself entirely to getting to med school (not to mention getting thru med school!). And I don't know. And that hurts.
And I know it will get better, and worse, and better, and so on...it's been doing that for a while! ;-)
Thanks again, Dinah. Hope you're doing well today.
Penny
Posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 13:08:46
In reply to Re: Penny!!! Yes, you! » Dinah, posted by Zo on March 28, 2002, at 6:47:49
Zo,
Sorry if I portrayed my latest pdoc to be something he's not, but I really like him. At least he SEES the mood swings. My last two attributed it all to 'anxiety.'
He told me yesterday when I saw him, after trying to assess my level of feeling 'up,' to definitely page him if I started feeling more 'up' or down again. Said that this time around, if I kept experiencing mood swings, it was probably not the medication causing my elevated mood...so he's been looking for a cycle. And he used the term 'rapid cycling.' He said he thought I have a mild akathesia (med related, started when I was on too high a dose of Paxil) and wanted me to stop the Geodon in hopes that it would bring me down a little and ease the trembling. Tho' after I talked to him last night, he decided I needed to stay on the Geodon, since I was heading downhill...
And it's hard for me to explain to him how I feel. And since I don't really know what it feels like to feel 'normal', I sometimes wonder if my ups are hypomanic or not. I didn't have the racing thoughts yesterday, just mainly the 'decreased need for sleep' - which was decreased for me, though not necessarily for someone else (I got five hours the night before) and lots of energy. Which felt good.
Anyway, when he called me back last night, he asked how down I was and I told him that I didn't want to kill myself (which I didn't) but that I was no worse off than I have been in the past. And I'm not. But then again, I haven't told him (yet) that I've been thinking about 'hurting' myself in some manner. Cutting, maybe. Haven't done it yet, but for some reason it intrigues me. But I'd like to not go there.
I'm discouraged. I'm not as fatigued, so I'm thinking the thyroid is doing SOMETHING, but my mood isn't elevated. But my appetite is nil (I eat more when I'm depressed, typically) and my brain feels fairly 'clear', compared to how I usually feel depressed. But I can see that black cloud coming...
Just paged him a few minutes ago. I'm going to talk to him about lamictal. I'm not sure why he's hesitant to start me on a mood stabilizer, other than that he doesn't like to start two meds too close together.
Anyway, thanks, Zo, for your thoughts and your concern. I REALLY appreciate it. And I AM going to talk to him about lamictal. But I really do trust him.
I'll keep you posted. Hope you are doing well.
Penny
Posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 13:19:03
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart...................... ¯ Penny, posted by fi on March 28, 2002, at 7:27:22
> And the one about wanting to be a doctor. I know it may sound trite- sorry- but have you thought a bit wider? Medical school is packed with a vast amount of studying, including lots of science, and a load of stress.
Fi,
Yeah, I've considered other fields: clinical social work, psychology, nursing, etc. I know med school would be extremely challenging...that's what attracts me to it, in some ways. And perhaps it's a bit too extreme for me, though I don't feel ready to give up just yet. Still holding out hope that I'll get stabilized on some meds soon and then I can pick up where I left off.
> Then there's loads of things you can do to help others as a volunteer, which you can do straight away once your mood has stabilised, like befriending or helping with practical tasks.I already volunteer. I mentor a nine-year-old boy who lives at a treatment facility for kids with severe emotional and behavioral problems. He and I both take Celexa right now :). And I'm on a committee at the same facility. And I'm a part-time nanny for a two- and a four-year-old, in addition to my normal 40 hour a week desk job. And I sit for other kids too. Plus class too nights a week...jeez, am I just TOO busy? Is that part of my problem? Probably... And my volunteering is rewarding (as is the babysitting), but all through college, when I was fooling myself about thinking I could survive a desk job, I thought that the volunteering would be enough to feed my soul. Not so, for me. I have to be doing more.
But, you see, I was a parental child (as I'm sure many of us were), and I feel a need to be taking care of someone/thing all the time. I have two dogs for that very purpose, plus the volunteering with kids and the babysitting help fill that need. But it's not enough. And I guess I see medicine as being the ultimate in caregiving...at least the way I would want to practice it. But, perhaps that's not such a good thing...
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. I'm still hangin' in here...
Penny
Posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 13:21:06
In reply to Sorry Penny., posted by Dinah on March 28, 2002, at 12:03:37
No apology needed.
Oh...and I meant to mark one of my replies (the one that's not marked) for you. Please forgive me.
BTW, in case no one's told you lately...you're amazing, Dinah.
Thanks again.
Penny
Posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 13:24:05
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart......................, posted by k9lover on March 28, 2002, at 12:21:55
> I too am in a dark place... It can't be normal to think about suicide all the time can it? I wander out of it every so often, only to return a few minutes later. Do others go through this?
>
> JanJan,
All the time (obviously). Are you getting help? I hope so. They tell me -- they being the mysterious people who have somehow 'beat' depression, or are at least putting up a good fight ;) -- that we don't have to live like this. That there is hope.
Penny
Posted by k9lover on March 28, 2002, at 14:15:15
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart... » k9lover, posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 13:24:05
My pdoc is away for 6 days. Took self to hospital once already this week - unable to control suicidal thinking. Don't want to return there if I can help it... feeling quite dark.
Posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 14:37:59
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart..., posted by k9lover on March 28, 2002, at 14:15:15
> My pdoc is away for 6 days. Took self to hospital once already this week - unable to control suicidal thinking. Don't want to return there if I can help it... feeling quite dark.
Jan,
Are you taking anything? Do you have a therapist? Did they admit you, even temporarily?Are you up to reading a book? Or part of a book? It's called "Suicide: the forever decision" by Paul G. Quinnett. It's written in a very matter-of-fact, no bullshit kinda way, and it's gotten me through some hard times. Wish I could bring it to you myself. Also, a good website to help get you through is http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/. I've read that page so many times, I should have it memorized.
Whatever you are doing...do SOMETHING. Try to keep yourself busy. If you need to go to the hospital, go. If you want to eat, eat. Go to a movie, get out of the house. Try to not be alone (even though I know that's exactly what you want right now).
I KNOW how you're feeling. I go back and forth from there all the time. And it's scary. But you can get through it. Take it hour by hour or minute by minute.
My grandfather committed suicide in November. I was in a really dark place myself at that time, but it somewhat shocked me out of it (as odd as that might sound). And, even though much of my family sucks, a way that I get through some of my hard times is by thinking of how much his suicide hurt me. And I KNOW that you probably think that everyone would be better off without you. I know that I do when I feel that way. But if you can think of one, just ONE, thing to live for, or to keep trying for, it might help just an eensy bit. For me, it's my dogs. Judging by your screen name, that might be the key for you too.
If you need to chat, feel free to email me at penny1076@yahoo.com, or post on the board. I'll try to check in as often as I can.
Penny
Posted by jane d on March 28, 2002, at 17:58:18
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart » fi, posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 13:19:03
> I already volunteer. I mentor a nine-year-old boy who lives at a treatment facility for kids with severe emotional and behavioral problems. He and I both take Celexa right now :). And I'm on a committee at the same facility. And I'm a part-time nanny for a two- and a four-year-old, in addition to my normal 40 hour a week desk job. And I sit for other kids too. Plus class too nights a week...jeez, am I just TOO busy? Is that part of my problem? Probably...
And you are going to school on top of all that? No wonder. I wouldn't give up on school just yet. I found that depression disproportionately hurt my ability to do heavy memorization so, as you feel better, you may find it gets easier. It's also something that takes practice. If you haven't taken this kind of class for awhile it's normal to be rusty. Finally, I remember that my school always recommended allowing more time for the math and science classes. Given all the other things you are doing I suspect you are having trouble finding the time to drill as much as you should. Don't assume that just because you are having trouble with this stuff right now that you always will. Good luck.
Jane
Posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 19:27:28
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart » Penny, posted by jane d on March 28, 2002, at 17:58:18
Posted by allisonf on March 31, 2002, at 23:09:19
In reply to I'm falling apart......................, posted by Penny on March 27, 2002, at 22:00:23
Penny,
Forgive me for not cking down this bd a little farther and missing your thread. I hope you are feeling better. Not sure of your dx, but it sounds like you are definitely cycling, and I know that the up/down, up/down can be so tiring and difficult, esp. if you are trying to do all of the things that you have on your plate. I find it is just impossible to concentrate when I am in the jittery phase (the "bad" hypomania) or when I am depressed. But plse don't give up your dream of medicine if that's what you want to do (BTW, noone "stupid" could accomplish all that you have while going thru what you have had to!). As I think you told me recently, you have to follow your heart. Hang in there and take care--
Allison
Posted by Fi on April 2, 2002, at 9:50:32
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart » fi, posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 13:19:03
Your current schedule sounds exhausting- to me, anyway. I can see you are aiming for the top- the hardest route. Which of course will be wonderful, if its manageable for you. If its not, at least you are aware there are other options.
And I'm sure you know the old but true saying,that you have to be looking after yourself properly before you can take on looking after others.
Good luck, whatever happens.
Fi
Posted by mair on April 2, 2002, at 12:26:13
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart » fi, posted by Penny on March 28, 2002, at 13:19:03
Penny - I tried to send you a post the other day but it was the day the server went down and my post became what Dr. Bob referred to as a "nonfunctional link." I don't think I know how old you are. I say this because there was a man in my town who left a successful commercial real estate broker career to go to medical school when he was in his early to mid 40's. It probably helped that he wasn't aspiring to an esoteric subspecialty that takes years of residencies and fellowships - I think he now works as a doctor in a college or boarding school - but he obviously didn't let age stop him and just patiently waited for the right opportunity.
I think you'll be a great caregiver whether as a doctor or in a related profession - I think the way you responded to K9lover was wonderful. You should also bear in mind that depression tends to make any problem seem insurmountable. You've got a lot going on now and I assume it's been upsetting to you to have to deal with the temporary loss of your therapist - so, if you can otherwise avoid it, now is probably not a great time to conclude that your future has somehow been predetermined by your disease.
Mair
Posted by Penny on April 2, 2002, at 14:25:57
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart, posted by Fi on April 2, 2002, at 9:50:32
Posted by Penny on April 2, 2002, at 14:34:58
In reply to Re: I'm falling apart » Penny, posted by mair on April 2, 2002, at 12:26:13
I'm 25. Which is why I have very little time to wait on taking classes.
I thought about a year ago that maybe medicine wasn't in the cards for me. Was hoping (again) that something else would fit the bill. And maybe it will. But after weighing all my options, I realized (again) that it is truly the only thing I want to do with my life.
But, like Fi said, I know I have to take care of myself first. And perhaps this road is taking me somewhere else. I know that's already happened by my not prepping for med school when I was an undergrad. I have, of course, had a much different experience than I would have had going to med school fresh out of college. And, truly, I'm not sure psychiatry would have been of much interest to me at all. It's the things that have happened in my life (both to me and to others I know) that has influenced me in that direction. And it was actually my therapist who asked if I had ever considered a mental health-related career...
My pdoc still remains encouraging regarding my future plans. And is very optimistic regarding my recovery from depression. And I'm slowly but surely getting better. Still don't think we're quite where we need to be with my meds, but I'm certainly in a better place than I was a few months ago! I guess the true test will be when my therapist comes back and I start that again. I think not thinking about some things has helped, but I also know that I can't ignore those things forever, as they hurt me more in the long-term.
Thanks for your thoughts, Mair.
Penny
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