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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jane D on October 19, 2001, at 1:21:36
The following was posted by Gracie on PB about what actually pushes people to commit suicide. It was originally just an aside in a post on another topic but I'd like to continue it and figured I might as well start if off here instead of being "invited" to move later.
Quote:
"Many people on the edge of suicide hang from this earth from a filament, a mere spiderweb, and the most inconsequential action can make them decide whether to go or to stay - a hurtful remark, or a child's cough from the bedroom down the hallway."If you want to see the context it came from http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011015/msgs/81573.html
I have read (but don't remember where) that impulsiveness was a key factor in suicide attempts. That certainly seems to fit in with the description above but I'm really curious about whether this was the experience of most people here. Mine was completely different and now I'm wondering if I was just odd. This was a long time ago but as I recall when the temptation became almost irresistable I was completely oblivious to the outside world. It came on gradually so that as the urge to die became stronger I was also becoming more and more disconnected from everyone and everything. Hurtful remarks had no impact on me at all because I already absolutely believed all the worst things you could say about me were true. Good things couldn't help because I was absolutely convinced all the worst things were true. When I thought at all it was a repeating, muddled tape of how hopelessly awful everything was that didn't leave room for any other imput or, fortunately, for competent planning. .
Just wondering what it was that has kept me and the rest of us here.
Jane
Posted by paxvox on October 19, 2001, at 7:52:11
In reply to Precipitating suicide?, posted by Jane D on October 19, 2001, at 1:21:36
What keeps the "rest of us here"? I can only answer for myself. I realized it would be a selfish act, an easy way out FOR ME, but not for the family I loved. Although many suicides and murder-suicides are the final "I got You!", some are from pure lack of hope. From the song "Center Aisle" by Caedman's Call. "What crimes have you committed, demanding such a pennace? Could it wait for 5 more minutes? And the cry for help, and this room seems so empty, and this room seems so quiet, and I hate the silence, I hate the silence, and I can't walk the center aisle."
When all else is gone, there is always hope and assurance. Take the time to talk, take the time to listen take the time to help. Choose life.
PAX
Posted by Shar on October 19, 2001, at 8:42:48
In reply to Precipitating suicide?, posted by Jane D on October 19, 2001, at 1:21:36
In my experience, there is a long time of depression that includes suicidal ideation preceding the attempt, but there is a trigger for the actual event. As Gracie2 said, the trigger can be just about anything, as it will only have meaning to me. And I liked her description of hanging on by a filament.
Unlike Paxvox, I don't experience the desire to save my family from the pain of a suicide in the family. They can deal with it on their own. They don't owe me, I don't owe them--especially I don't owe them a life of writhing in desperation so they can feel more comfortable.
Shar
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 19, 2001, at 10:10:39
In reply to suicide triggers » Jane D, posted by Shar on October 19, 2001, at 8:42:48
I feel more as Jane does. I have never actually made an attempt, so perhaps I am in a different category, but when So Very Close, the outside world meant nothing. It was all within me, the ugliness, and just the horrible physical pain. I was blinded by the pain. Derealization comes to mind. There was no ability to connect to anything of this world, which made the concept of leaving it that much easier.
At this point, I had no thoughts for family or friends, since they, too, exist here. I just wanted to stop the pain.
- K.
Posted by sar on October 19, 2001, at 10:26:05
In reply to Re: suicide triggers, posted by Krazy Kat on October 19, 2001, at 10:10:39
i can relate to what Shar wrote.
for me, the ideation had been around quite awhile and v. intensely...the "trigger" was a bad acid trip and the next morning was my first attempt...
second attempt i'd been "okay" for a few months, and there wasn't really a trigger except that i was looking at a tree that seemed good to hang from.
what keeps me around is curiosity...i'm pretty young and new to the meds game; i'm curious to see if this neurontin will help, if i'll fall in love again, if i'll get money to travel...
but at my darkest (good description, Jane) i'm not very curious, and my mind is obsessed with the best method of killing myself.
Posted by Anna Laura on October 19, 2001, at 11:08:50
In reply to Precipitating suicide?, posted by Jane D on October 19, 2001, at 1:21:36
> The following was posted by Gracie on PB about what actually pushes people to commit suicide. It was originally just an aside in a post on another topic but I'd like to continue it and figured I might as well start if off here instead of being "invited" to move later.
>
> Quote:
> "Many people on the edge of suicide hang from this earth from a filament, a mere spiderweb, and the most inconsequential action can make them decide whether to go or to stay - a hurtful remark, or a child's cough from the bedroom down the hallway."
>
> If you want to see the context it came from http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011015/msgs/81573.html
>
> I have read (but don't remember where) that impulsiveness was a key factor in suicide attempts. That certainly seems to fit in with the description above but I'm really curious about whether this was the experience of most people here. Mine was completely different and now I'm wondering if I was just odd. This was a long time ago but as I recall when the temptation became almost irresistable I was completely oblivious to the outside world. It came on gradually so that as the urge to die became stronger I was also becoming more and more disconnected from everyone and everything. Hurtful remarks had no impact on me at all because I already absolutely believed all the worst things you could say about me were true. Good things couldn't help because I was absolutely convinced all the worst things were true. When I thought at all it was a repeating, muddled tape of how hopelessly awful everything was that didn't leave room for any other imput or, fortunately, for competent planning. .
>
> Just wondering what it was that has kept me and the rest of us here.
>
> JaneHi guys,
First of all,
I realize my english it's going to sound too scholarly since i'm posting from oversea and my mother tongue it's Italian:still, i hope this mail makes sense and you guys are not going to judge me because i come from a different culture; i just hope to be treated like everyone else on this board. I've been posting before months ago and you guys treated me just fine, forgive me if i'm a bit paranoid at the moment.
Since the subject of suicide is being discussed, i'd like to share my fear with all of you: well, I'm aware this is might sound silly, childlish or even crazy, but lately i've been obsessed with the dread of hell; i've been thinking about suicide every now and then in the last two or three months and i confess that one of the reasons that kept me going was this irrational, terrible fear.
I've had a very strict catholic religious upbringing, i spent my childhood fearing god, feeling guilty because i couldn't worship or love God just like the other children did; eventually i managed to get rid of these fears by the age of thirteen; i'm 32 years old now and this fear is showing up again i guess because i haven't been able to take my life under control lately so that i feel desperate, lonely and needy like a five-years-old: well, this is my rational explanation so far but it didn't help at all : no matter what rational/psychological explanation i come up with, the fear is still there.
Don't get me wrong, i don't want to support the idea of suicide the point I'm trying to make is that i believe there should be a more reasonable, less dreadful way to keep us motivated with life, like hope for the future, love for our family members, goals you want to achieve, etc....
I don't know what to do: i feel like a medieval man dreading the eternal punishment.
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 19, 2001, at 12:03:47
In reply to Re: Precipitating suicide? » Jane D, posted by paxvox on October 19, 2001, at 7:52:11
This post has made me realise something...
I;m NOT suicidal!!!
I have felt suicidal for the longest time, and I really don;t know what kept me here. Most of the time it was just a realisation that i didn;t want to be here, and would, as some point, kill myself. About once a week it would boil over into really wanting to do it, but luckily I never quite made it the whole way.
Some days it would just get blcker and blacker until I lost all hope. Slowly, like a thick black oil slowly covering me.
Other days something would trigger me over the edge, something pathetic like forgetting to buy the newpaper, or my husband nagging me slightly.For years, I just knew I would die. Now I am being given the chance to find a reason to hang onto.
Nikki
Posted by paxvox on October 19, 2001, at 12:20:33
In reply to Re: Precipitating suicide?, posted by Anna Laura on October 19, 2001, at 11:08:50
Anna Laura,
Please sit down, enjoy yourself, and make yourself feel at home. I don't think you will find anyone here to be too judgmental. Sure, we do disagree about things, but we try to remain civil. If English is not your mother tongue, you could have fooled me, as you have an excellent command of the grammar.
Now, as to your post.
You fear hell, and that is your main motivation to stay alive, or was I reading too much in to what you wrote? Maybe you still love your life, wounded as you may be, and are using fear as a negative motivation tool.Afterall, a known evil, your current existance, may be better than an unknown evil, hell. I will try to be as secular as possible in this response (though I could be much more convincing if you shared my religious beliefs). When life has become so painfully unbearable that death seems the only escape, one is clearly in a tenuous spot. Whereas I don't necessarily condone "assisted suicide" or whatever lable it carries, I can see how someone WITH NO HOPE AT ALL for a meaningful recovery of life might logically conclude to embrace death to end their pain. I feel personally, however, that no matter how deep and dark the hole one has fallen into in a psychological sense, there ALWAYS remains hope for a meaningful recovery. God knows, there were days when I thought the only way out was the final exit. However, I never played that card, and how glad I am that I didn't. Not to say there are days that aren't misserable, pains sometimes severe, fears sometimes daunting, nights without sleep and so on. But I have also seen days or glorious beauty, experienced unconditional love from my daughter, cried because I was sad and happy at the same time,helped a friend back up off the ground. In these things I find purpose, in these things I find peace, in these things I find a reason to see what tomorrow has to offer.
PAX
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 19, 2001, at 13:29:13
In reply to Re: Precipitating suicide?, posted by Anna Laura on October 19, 2001, at 11:08:50
Anna Laura:
Welcome back! It is very exciting to have people from different cultures on this board.
I am not Catholic, but my husband is, and many of my friends are. I was brought up as a Born Again Christian. Am rather agnostic now.
I, personally, don't like the concept if using fear to keep us here, which is exactly what I think you are saying. It would mean we wouldn't really anjoy life, we'd just be glad we weren't in hell at the moment. :)
So, it would be good, maybe, to try to look at it another way as Pax stated. My parents, and other Born Againers I know, tend to be negative about this life and only looking forward to the next. The Catholics I know, tend to enjoy this life a great deal. (I'm really generalizing, here.) So, we all must work on that here, eh?
- KK
Posted by Anna Laura on October 20, 2001, at 2:03:59
In reply to Re: Precipitating suicide? » Anna Laura, posted by paxvox on October 19, 2001, at 12:20:33
Hi Guys
Thanks for having shared your personal experience; i've been depressed for eleven years so far: ups and downs, moods improved but somehow feeling less lively as years go by: i absolutely hate it; i can stand depression and mind torture but i absolutely hate apathy: it's like being dead.
Yesterday while surfing on the net i bumped in to an article about major depression with psychotic features (the mood incogruent type, which i had): they said it had a poor prognosis in the lung run: i got very paranoid about that and by lunch time i got very pessimistic about my life (i'll never recover, i'll never get back to College, i'm a failure and things like that). Thought about suicide but felt trapped because of the dread of hell; having a feed-back on this subject somehow helped to get part of this burden off my shoulders.
Thanks guys
Love,Anna Laura
Posted by KB on October 20, 2001, at 11:12:07
In reply to Precipitating suicide?, posted by Jane D on October 19, 2001, at 1:21:36
For me, it starts with just the idea of suicide popping into my head more and more frequently - like, every time I try to read a book, the word "suicide" jumps out at me - no matter what I'm reading. Then I start to find myself abstractly considering things like windows - does it open? Is there a gate? Is it high enough? What's below? By the final phase, anything can set me off crying, and it rapidly goes from there
to standing by the window . . .Usually the last things that set me off are work-related because it's my sense of responsibility to my clients that is the main thing that keeps me going.
Posted by ChrisK on October 21, 2001, at 4:03:09
In reply to Precipitating suicide?, posted by Jane D on October 19, 2001, at 1:21:36
Neither of my two serious suicide attempts were precipitated by a single incident. My life had just become so dark and useless that I knew I had to die to let others go on with their own lives. I was convinced that suicide was the best way to relive the emotional burden I had put on my family. The attempts themselves came out of convenience more than anything else.
One day we had an ice storm and my wife called from work to say that she was going to stay with her daughter that night rather than try to drive 20 miles home from the city. That left me alone where I would not be found for at least 24 hours and I thought that would be enough time for the OD to be complete. My thoughts at the time were all about just getting it over with. I had become consumed with death.
Somehow I survived those times (after ample time in the hospital) and now I'm on the right meds. I feel grateful that I have my life today but in those days I was upset with myself for not succeeding.
Chris
Posted by Gracie2 on October 21, 2001, at 14:22:25
In reply to Re: Precipitating suicide? » Anna Laura, posted by Krazy Kat on October 19, 2001, at 13:29:13
Posted by Kristi on October 22, 2001, at 0:51:32
In reply to Re: Precipitating suicide? Paxvox, Krazy Kat, posted by Anna Laura on October 20, 2001, at 2:03:59
I can total understand and relate. If it wasn't for my religious upbringing.... and what would happen to my soul if I committed suicide.... I would be long gone by now. THAT is the only thing keeping me here.
My suicidal thoughts now are.... I wish my house would be bombed.... or I got anthrax... or, well, you get my point. I guess that's just as suicidal. I want to die, but I can't kill myself.
So I keep truging along until my time comes.
>
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Thanks for having shared your personal experience; i've been depressed for eleven years so far: ups and downs, moods improved but somehow feeling less lively as years go by: i absolutely hate it; i can stand depression and mind torture but i absolutely hate apathy: it's like being dead.
> Yesterday while surfing on the net i bumped in to an article about major depression with psychotic features (the mood incogruent type, which i had): they said it had a poor prognosis in the lung run: i got very paranoid about that and by lunch time i got very pessimistic about my life (i'll never recover, i'll never get back to College, i'm a failure and things like that). Thought about suicide but felt trapped because of the dread of hell; having a feed-back on this subject somehow helped to get part of this burden off my shoulders.
> Thanks guys
> Love,
>
> Anna Laura
Posted by Cass on October 23, 2001, at 1:46:42
In reply to Precipitating suicide?, posted by Jane D on October 19, 2001, at 1:21:36
> Quote:
> "Many people on the edge of suicide hang from this earth from a filament, a mere spiderweb, and the most inconsequential action can make them decide whether to go or to stay - a hurtful remark, or a child's cough from the bedroom down the hallway."
>
> If you want to see the context it came from http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011015/msgs/81573.html
>
>
I always had a moral compass and an inner guidance that let me know I was not as bad as my abusive family made me out to be. But nevertheless, I was battered and beaten, and people can only take so much. This was compounded by undiagnosed medical problems. I wouldn't say it was impulsive. I had been planning it for a long, long time, but a recent rejection had destroyed the little thread I had been hanging onto. Obviously, I didn't succeed in dying. Now when I ponder it, the prospect is less painful and less frightening to think about. I no longer believe in a judgemental God. If life becomes impossible to live without severe pain, emotional and physical, I'll do it. I hope that day never comes, but it may. I'm prepared in terms of the method. I've had years to do research. (I wish I could have gained a tough skin, and that nothing would hurt me. I've never been able to attain that although I try to pretend sometimes.)
This is the end of the thread.
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