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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by laural on October 22, 2000, at 4:04:15
A lot of you guys mention intelligence or seeing the truth as the cause of depression and i just don't buy that. I've done it too--romanticise my condition--automatically putting myself up there with the Dead Famous Ones just because i had all this angst and i wrote pain poems about not fitting in and i convinced myself that i didn't want to fit in. I know you could call me a genius by my IQ if you go by that kind of thing but no matter how chosen you are, what matters to me is that i don't hate myself and everybody else. I can tolerate so much more now and it feels good to be accepted. granted, i don't consider myself amongst the norm and am proud of my eccentricities, but that's all a matter of relative taste, not TRUTH. yeah, the world is scary and harsh and people en masse are really scary, especially when it comes to politics, but day to day living, like smiles in the supermarket or someone giving you 50 cents for bus fare, you gotta love them. i don't mean to sound cheesy. But the disease i have is a disease that makes you the star of your own private hell with a soundtrack to boot. In real life, its not romantic. I have a disease that tells me i should kill myself, that's bullsh*t! there is so much to life and i can't explain it because its a personal high but at some times everything is alright. and those stupid things that normal people do like house in the burbs and kids and stuff, its a new adventure. Maybe that is a delusion, brought about by our DNA, as we are simply vectors for procreation and this is the best way to go about it--you know, wanting to live? But I guess I'de rather be happy in ignorance than miserable with the truth, I want back into EDEN (see my post fallen angels). laural
Posted by laural on October 22, 2000, at 5:30:30
In reply to Are we being too romantic?, posted by laural on October 22, 2000, at 4:04:15
i was thinking as i was trying to sleep that my post may be misconstrued--i have nothing but admiration for those who can express themselves with creativity, pain poems are i think necessary to deal with it all and can be very beautiful. sorry if i offended. i'm just now learning to use the internet after denying modern technology for so long--typewriters were so romantic a la bukowski and whats his name--the heroin addict who's dead now but lived in lawrence kansas? but as i was saying, i still havn't mastered how to get humor etc across without using those smiley faces--somehow there should be a way as we have been writing for quite some time, as a species that is. laural
Posted by noa on October 23, 2000, at 8:12:45
In reply to Are we being too romantic?, posted by laural on October 22, 2000, at 4:04:15
I don't romanticize it, although I think I used to when I was much younger. It is just what it is.
Posted by coral on October 23, 2000, at 9:39:09
In reply to Re: Are we being too romantic?, posted by noa on October 23, 2000, at 8:12:45
Romantic? It never occurred to me to romanticize this rotten, evil, ugly devil who takes such damned delight in ruining my life, even if temporarily. To me, there's nothing romantic about being so terrorized that curling up on the couch, UNDER a warm blanket, is the only place I feel safe. To me, there's nothing romantic about a panic attack that'll assault me when I'm just innocently reading a book. There's nothing romantic about being awakened (from bad dreams, no less) with such acute anxiety that I want to claw the very real imaginary hand at my throat. Maybe it's because my first depression hit at 40 and a more youthful attitude of romanticism was long gone. There's nothing romantic about the scars on my wrists or the clear memory of the razor in my hand as it slashed through my flesh.
Posted by shar on October 23, 2000, at 13:08:18
In reply to Re: Are we being too romantic?, posted by coral on October 23, 2000, at 9:39:09
Well said, Coral. Very well said. I am so sorry that the beast grabbed you and shook you in that way.
Re: Romanticizing
My depression hit full force in my teens. I don't feel at all one-up on people who are not brought to their knees by the condition. I am probably more cynical than most adult "normals" but have learned to just keep it real (just the facts), unless they are so Sunshine Pollyanna I have to leave (as they baby talk in their little teeny voices). I find the baby talk most annoying.
And, I have had a LOT of disruptive life experiences from a young age. That may account for my view of "Life as I Find It" as much as anything else.
I've never gotten much mileage from the "tragic figure" perspective. Most people wouldn't even know that while they are shopping for the best bananas, I'm looking at the apples wishing I was dead. And, in Texas, we nod and smile and greet, and I do too.
My face to the world is serene, I have been told, I am a rock, I have been told because while suicidal I handle whatever comes up (I get compliments on handling stuff, it's only me that knows the suicidal part). Maybe I can do this partly because handling work/home/family stuff sort of pales in comparison to suicide. I must be a good multi-tasker......
Shar
> Romantic? It never occurred to me to romanticize this rotten, evil, ugly devil who takes such damned delight in ruining my life, even if temporarily. To me, there's nothing romantic about being so terrorized that curling up on the couch, UNDER a warm blanket, is the only place I feel safe. To me, there's nothing romantic about a panic attack that'll assault me when I'm just innocently reading a book. There's nothing romantic about being awakened (from bad dreams, no less) with such acute anxiety that I want to claw the very real imaginary hand at my throat. Maybe it's because my first depression hit at 40 and a more youthful attitude of romanticism was long gone. There's nothing romantic about the scars on my wrists or the clear memory of the razor in my hand as it slashed through my flesh.
Posted by coral on October 23, 2000, at 16:38:51
In reply to Re: Are we being too romantic?, posted by shar on October 23, 2000, at 13:08:18
Dear Shar,
Thank you for your kind words. Shaken by the beast is most accurate.
I am humbled and in awe of the struggle you're so valiantly fighting. Your courage is very inspirational. Someone who is battling chronic depression and living a life MUST be good at multi-tasking!
The question occurs to me if there is any correlation in how people deal with the depression and the genesis/longevity/onset of the depression. For me, I firmly believe that life shouldn't be painful. Yes, painful events and painful times happen, but life itself shouldn't be painful. But that perspective was developed in four decades of life that was essentially depression-free. Had depression hit when I was a teen, I don't know what my perspective would be.
I'd be very curious as to others' thoughts on this.
For me, I think the later-in-life onset of depression was such an unacceptable assault, that fighting back was the only thing I knew to do. I have no intention of making peace with it. For me, it's like having a rabid beast in the house. Now, it must be noted that I'm saying this on the healing side of my second depressive episode (much briefer than the first), but six weeks ago, when I couldn't string two coherent thoughts together, who knows what I would've said. I lost six weeks, literally lost six weeks of my life, like a blackout. I'm angry about that. I hope that I'm using the anger constructively because I can't undo the past, but learn from it. What were the early warning signs I missed? What can I do to increase my awareness of wellness and more vigilantly protect it?
Thinking about your situation, I'm stunned, recognizing the depth of strength you possess and you have my deepest admiration.
Again, thank you for the kind words and, I, too, am so very sorry that the beast has been with you for so very long.
Coral
Posted by Noa on October 23, 2000, at 17:43:18
In reply to Re: Are we being too romantic?, posted by shar on October 23, 2000, at 13:08:18
Shar, do you have any one in your life that you are able to be truthful to when you are in real distress? Or do you show your "functional face" to everyone? How about here, with us? Would we know when things are rougher or less rough for you?
Posted by shar on October 24, 2000, at 0:03:43
In reply to Re: Are we being too romantic?, posted by Noa on October 23, 2000, at 17:43:18
Noa,
This turned into a very interesting post for me. Writing this made me realize how little I do reveal that particular aspect of my feelings. I don't really have one person in my life that I could say that to who would understand and not overreact (which is worse than not saying anything at all).A few months ago, right after being laid off/fired I wrote an e-mail to a few friends telling them I was very low and needed their support. I did not say suicidal.
I am in a counseling group, and I wouldn't say suicidal in there, but I would talk about the depth of my depression.
I could e-mail my therapist and tell her that things looked so bleak I was feeling suicidal, but I haven't ever done it. She would not freak out because she knows me well.
The only place I've ever really talked openly about it at any length was on A Safe Haven, in a post called "I want to but I won't" or something.
Here, I will talk about slipping into the abyss, or my depression getting worse, or how hopeless I feel, and people who know me/my symptoms would probably recognize it if I wrote about a really bad bout of depression. But I would probably not say anything about suicidal ideation along with it.
So, I guess I take off my functional mask (a very good description) when it feels safe, and will reveal my depression, but have a hard time expressing the depth of absolute despair and loss of hope. Maybe also because I have a personal taboo against suicide, I just endure it. People get so hyper when you say suicide, and since I feel it but won't do it, I guess I want to avoid having to reassure others I'm ok, or deal with the "get to the ER" stuff. I don't put myself in harm's way and won't unless something exceedingly dramatic (like a terminal illness or something) happened.
I think you all see the least of my "functional face." I do want to say, that when I post something, I am being genuine, and I mean what I say, so it's not a mask in that sense (I know you didn't mean it was, Noa, but I wanted to say that anyway).
Shar
> Shar, do you have any one in your life that you are able to be truthful to when you are in real distress? Or do you show your "functional face" to everyone? How about here, with us? Would we know when things are rougher or less rough for you?
Posted by shar on October 24, 2000, at 0:15:06
In reply to Re: Shar, posted by coral on October 23, 2000, at 16:38:51
Coral,
What very kind words. Thank you so much for understanding and voicing your support. I am very touched, and thankful.
Shar
> Dear Shar,
>
> Thank you for your kind words. Shaken by the beast is most accurate.
>
> I am humbled and in awe of the struggle you're so valiantly fighting. Your courage is very inspirational. Someone who is battling chronic depression and living a life MUST be good at multi-tasking!
>
> The question occurs to me if there is any correlation in how people deal with the depression and the genesis/longevity/onset of the depression. For me, I firmly believe that life shouldn't be painful. Yes, painful events and painful times happen, but life itself shouldn't be painful. But that perspective was developed in four decades of life that was essentially depression-free. Had depression hit when I was a teen, I don't know what my perspective would be.
>
> I'd be very curious as to others' thoughts on this.
>
> For me, I think the later-in-life onset of depression was such an unacceptable assault, that fighting back was the only thing I knew to do. I have no intention of making peace with it. For me, it's like having a rabid beast in the house. Now, it must be noted that I'm saying this on the healing side of my second depressive episode (much briefer than the first), but six weeks ago, when I couldn't string two coherent thoughts together, who knows what I would've said. I lost six weeks, literally lost six weeks of my life, like a blackout. I'm angry about that. I hope that I'm using the anger constructively because I can't undo the past, but learn from it. What were the early warning signs I missed? What can I do to increase my awareness of wellness and more vigilantly protect it?
>
> Thinking about your situation, I'm stunned, recognizing the depth of strength you possess and you have my deepest admiration.
>
> Again, thank you for the kind words and, I, too, am so very sorry that the beast has been with you for so very long.
>
> Coral
>
Posted by laural on October 24, 2000, at 8:48:11
In reply to Re: Shar » coral, posted by shar on October 24, 2000, at 0:15:06
shar--
you deserve more than to just "grin and bear it", you deserve healing, even to the discomfort of others. you do after all pay your doc for things such as this. i have to realize this as sometimes i want my doc to see how much i'm improving that i try to ignore things. perhaps you feel guilty for making "such a fuss", i know i always have when suicidal, i don't feel i'm worth the attention and then part of me says "maybe then they will understand my pain" but that i was too noble to make others suffer along side me. kind of like that guy wandering out into the blizzard on the first trip to the poles when he and his teemmate discovered they would only have enough food for one to make it--he said "I'm going for a walk, I may be a while." maybe going to group like the above people have suggested would be a good idea to simply acclimate to the idea that you're having these thoughts. you may even find some people you really admire and respect that could make yourself relax--as--if they seem accepted, i may also be ok.
there is no need to suffer in silence, people who know you will notice something is not right, even if they never associate it with you
also, living in survival mode for so long can cause elevated levels of adrenaline, which deteriorates your immune system--hence people with depression often get sick easier
laural
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