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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 21, 2011, at 21:48:46
I imagine the collective experience here is extensive and nuanced. I am having thoughts that seem new to me in frequency and are very distressful. I keep hearing myself say I wish I was dead. I am frightened because I don't want this thought to make a groove in my brain. I don't know what to do with it. It has roots in childhood, but for the majority of my life has not appeared except maybe twice. Once before my only hospitalization. But I didn't do anything or plan. It was only a thought, but very painful. I still wouldn't act on it. I just want it to stop.
I have dealt with all kinds of negative thoughts, successfully or not. I guess I need to tell my therapist and my pdoc. But how in a way that doesn't alarm them? They don't know me. I am showing up to new treatment with this crazy low
baseline. I am scared. But I am also embarrassed. I feel
like I should suck it up, but don't know how. I keep saying
this is not me.I have done some dbt. It is hard to distract myself. Difficult
to be mindful. I have just survived one of the worst years of my life. I suppose this is the context, and under pressure, the
worst possible thoughts are most likely to appear.Has anyone had this sort of thought just go for days and days and then remit? How did you cope? I have gone for decades without this tape loop. Has anyone here used EMDR for this sort of repetitive thought? I have that available to me now.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 22, 2011, at 5:20:53
In reply to Negative thought appearing, posted by floatingbridge on August 21, 2011, at 21:48:46
You might just print out this post and share it with them.
It's not alarmist, but concerned.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 22, 2011, at 9:04:59
In reply to Re: Negative thought appearing » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 22, 2011, at 5:20:53
> You might just print out this post and share it with them.
> It's not alarmist, but concerned.I took out my risperdone last night. They stopped!
Posted by sigismund on August 22, 2011, at 10:08:10
In reply to Negative thought appearing, posted by floatingbridge on August 21, 2011, at 21:48:46
I have had it for hours, certainly, where I say out loud, hopefully where no one can hear, just that.
My friend, it is normal and rational.
Why wouldn't you (want to be dead)?
Life hasn't been a picnic for you lately.
Don't start feeling bad about feeling bad.
You have enough bad feeling to suffice.I don't wish you were dead, of course.
For me the world here has been enriched by you.
I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling that.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 22, 2011, at 10:23:04
In reply to Re: Negative thought appearing » floatingbridge, posted by sigismund on August 22, 2011, at 10:08:10
But sigi, I don't want to be dead. I want to live better, but can't seem to get there. Is that the rational part you speak of? That is the torment. If I wanted to, I would do something about it. Life feels too much right now. There is dirt and mess everywhere. Everything needs cleaning. I wish I had never started medications. And the horror of being miserable when my son and husband are able to laugh and enjoy. My son is so beautiful, but I am afraid I won't be much help to him at this rate.
Thanks for the kind words.
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2011, at 11:08:12
In reply to Re: Negative thought appearing » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on August 22, 2011, at 9:04:59
I have read two helpful books about obsessing. One is "Stop Obsessing" by Foa. The other one I can't recall.
I think the point is that if you put too much emotional energy into the thoughts, they gain in power. If you remove emotional energy, they can become a simple fact. This weakens them. I still get thoughts like this when I'm stressed. I pay attention to them, in that I make sure not to have any means to act on any accompanying impulses. But I also try to treat them like an external annoyance. It helps to remove the thoughts a bit. Instead of thinking "I wish I were dead" think "I'm having those pesky thoughts of wishing I were dead." By all means tell your pdoc, your therapist. Maybe not your husband. Definitely not your child. I think the book suggests singing them in a silly way. The more you can marginalize the thoughts and remove their power, the better. Keeping them secret and fighting having the thoughts just strengthens them.
And yes, Risperdal helps.
I'm not saying this to trivialize it. And of course, if you think you will act on the thoughts you should take them very seriously. But if they are intrusive thoughts, treat them as intrusive thoughts. It's unpleasant, to be sure.
At least that's been my experience. Your experience of the thoughts may be totally different, in which case please disregard my thoughts.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 22, 2011, at 11:55:25
In reply to Re: Negative thought appearing » floatingbridge, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2011, at 11:08:12
Yes, they are intrusive. I don't feel an impulse to act, really. I will tell pdoc and therapist. Never my child. Nor my husband. It's too alarming and prone to misinterpretation.
They wear me down, the thoughts, not to mention frighten me. I don't vocalize them.
One of my top challenges seems to be able to withdraw emotional energy from thought. Maybe it's my brain. I have always admired my more poised, considered friends. I imagine their thoughts can bother them just as much, though.
Your rephrasing is helpful to me. I have overcome certain thoughts and reactions to them before, but this seems just scary and very unwelcome. Yes, secrets and fighting makes it worse. I agree now that you mention it.
Posted by sigismund on August 22, 2011, at 15:24:44
In reply to Re: Negative thought appearing » floatingbridge, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2011, at 11:08:12
With me they accompany some horrible feeling I am defenceless against.
That feeling is not constant at all.
Yeah, I hope you can find a way to feel just a bit better. Being with kids when they are little is the best thing about having them.
Posted by sigismund on August 22, 2011, at 17:19:22
In reply to Re: Negative thought appearing, posted by sigismund on August 22, 2011, at 15:24:44
I suppose what I was trying to say is that I take the feeling of the spasm to be meaningful.
Nothing special about spasm....it's just that way with me. Intense and passing.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 22, 2011, at 17:56:07
In reply to Negative thought appearing, posted by floatingbridge on August 21, 2011, at 21:48:46
I am thinking of seeing what my new therapist thinks regarding approaches. I trust her so far to either refer me or maybe agree to see me 2x per week. Increased frequency might be helpful at least in the short term as medicine is only addressing, frankly, very little right now.
Now that my boy will start school soon, therapy will be easier to arrange.
Thanks for the input. You know it's a relief to know others have these passing thoughts, though I'm not happy to think anyone does.
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 22, 2011, at 22:01:39
In reply to Re: Negative thought appearing, posted by floatingbridge on August 22, 2011, at 17:56:07
Passing thoughts without a concrete plan or objective are not more than any decent therapist of p-doc can handle. You are depressed. You wish this would stop, but you are not making nooses or accumulating opiates to kill youself with.
I actually was doing that. I ended up hospitalized so many times, I've lost count. I actually nearly hung myself in the hospital. I once went to the hospital because my husband called the police and once I went because my p-doc called the police.
Now I am doing DBT and learning to let these suicidal impulses pass. When they don't pass, I take a high dose of haldol and ativan to knock me out. After 12-14 hours sleep, I generally feel better.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 22, 2011, at 22:14:44
In reply to Re: Negative thought appearing » floatingbridge, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2011, at 11:08:12
thoughts can sometimes have a mind of their own
isn't that funny?
they can have their own life
they can just pop up, and linger, and haunt
Posted by Tabitha on August 23, 2011, at 3:48:29
In reply to Negative thought appearing, posted by floatingbridge on August 21, 2011, at 21:48:46
If your thought has emotion and distresses you, by all means talk it out with someone. Perhaps the distress can be relieved.
I've had some very odd thoughts that keep cropping up. They seem to happen when I'm anxious, and they don't have emotion associated with them. They've changed over time. The most frequent one these days is "I'm going to commit suicide". Yet I've been suicidal, and this repetitive, flat thought is not the same thing as feeling suicidal. I don't feel particularly hopeless or distressed when the thought happens. I've just quit worrying about it. It seems like bizarre brain junk to me, not particularly meaningful.
Posted by jane d on August 23, 2011, at 8:31:34
In reply to Re: Negative thought appearing » floatingbridge, posted by Tabitha on August 23, 2011, at 3:48:29
> If your thought has emotion and distresses you, by all means talk it out with someone. Perhaps the distress can be relieved.
>
> I've had some very odd thoughts that keep cropping up. They seem to happen when I'm anxious, and they don't have emotion associated with them. They've changed over time. The most frequent one these days is "I'm going to commit suicide". Yet I've been suicidal, and this repetitive, flat thought is not the same thing as feeling suicidal. I don't feel particularly hopeless or distressed when the thought happens. I've just quit worrying about it. It seems like bizarre brain junk to me, not particularly meaningful.
>
>i've had almost exactly the same thought with the same lack of suicidal feeling off and on through the years. It scared me silly the first time it happened. Now I recognize it mainly as a marker of stress and also shrug it off. I've wondered if what's significant about these suicidal thoughts is that they are so taboo and whether it has any relation to the taboo thoughts of OCD. Or cursing in Tourettes.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 23, 2011, at 9:24:50
In reply to Suicidal tics » Tabitha, posted by jane d on August 23, 2011, at 8:31:34
I get them in the car sometimes. There's a particular place on a bridge, and I think "I could drive over that wall."
And also I think, while my hands are on the steering wheel, "I could slit my wrists". They are repetitive, always the same.
They're just pop up thoughts, never something I'd do in a million years, but maybe a sign of stress.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 23, 2011, at 10:47:20
In reply to Re: Negative thought appearing » floatingbridge, posted by Tabitha on August 23, 2011, at 3:48:29
Yeah, this aren't quite tics. This discussion is helpful. I am concerned that they become tics. Just more automatic thoughts to bat away. There is emotional content. My health has been bad. I have mystery afflictions with chronic pain and fatigue that fits under the umbrella of fibromyalgia. My son is young, and it's difficult to bear being almost bedridden when the fatigue and pain come on together which happens every day. That's on top of the plain old life of waxing waning depression. In a way, this reminds me of another thread here about aging. Losing my health. Two years ago I was
much better, a year ago, less so. It seems progressive. If I was not a mom, I think curling up under the house like a cat and just giving up seems very appealing. I truly despise being ill and depressed with my child. To see the light in his eyes kind of flatten because I am barely there at times, and
he is old enough now to know that his mom is intermittent in her presence.Depression absolutely sucks because I turn away and just want to look inward at what? A wasteland? Yet what is depression? It is debated round and round. Will power,
muscle, God, acceptance, medication....So there are real problems. That's why when I do the emotional math, I keep coming up short and feeling overly challenged.
I do not allow myself to plan or entertain any suicidal plans. It's against my contract. Since my first major depressive episode, I no longer horde pills of any kind. I will go to therapy 2x or more per week, and will not see a jerk for a
therapist like I was. I see my psychiatrist tomorrow. I presently have very little hope in that department, though he did say he will do his best to get me sleep as a priority. So endurance, acceptance, unscrewing some of my thoughts lie within the realm of therapy and skill building.
Posted by sigismund on August 23, 2011, at 13:35:54
In reply to Suicidal tics » Tabitha, posted by jane d on August 23, 2011, at 8:31:34
> I've wondered if what's significant about these suicidal thoughts is that they are so taboo
Hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting.
Posted by sigismund on August 23, 2011, at 13:38:36
In reply to Re: Suicidal tics, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 23, 2011, at 9:24:50
>I get them in the car sometimes. There's a particular place on a bridge, and I think "I could drive over that wall."
And also I think, while my hands are on the steering wheel, "I could slit my wrists".Part of it might be that you are just free to do it? I remember holding a young baby over a height and of course I thought I could just chuck whoever it was. Which I could have.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 23, 2011, at 14:14:37
In reply to Re: Suicidal tics » sleepygirl2, posted by sigismund on August 23, 2011, at 13:38:36
> >I get them in the car sometimes. There's a particular place on a bridge, and I think "I could drive over that wall."
> And also I think, while my hands are on the steering wheel, "I could slit my wrists".
>
> Part of it might be that you are just free to do it? I remember holding a young baby over a height and of course I thought I could just chuck whoever it was. Which I could have.
Well, all this is very interesting. I find the experiences of freedom and responsibility deeply vexing....And that of the taboo.
Then there is parenting....
That no parent should ever give up. Or harm their child even though ignorance or mistake. These seem particularly unforgivable (to me).
Posted by sleepygirl2 on August 23, 2011, at 15:04:15
In reply to Re: Suicidal tics » sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on August 23, 2011, at 14:14:37
It's like exactly what you're not supposed to think about or do, and therefore what you think about.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 23, 2011, at 15:36:21
In reply to Re: Suicidal tics » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on August 23, 2011, at 15:04:15
> It's like exactly what you're not supposed to think about or do, and therefore what you think about.
Remember that scene in (the now ancient film) Annie Hall where Christopher Walken's character (Duane?) shares his thoughts of driving into the headlights of oncoming cars?
(I slept seven hours last night. I have an inch of humor today :-| )
Posted by Phillipa on August 23, 2011, at 19:23:54
In reply to Re: Suicidal tics » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on August 23, 2011, at 15:36:21
FB just found this thread homework to do. Love Phillipa ps also glad you slept with the resperidol
Posted by floatingbridge on August 24, 2011, at 23:07:35
In reply to Negative thought appearing, posted by floatingbridge on August 21, 2011, at 21:48:46
This discussion has been really helpful. I appreciate the thoughtful perspectives and experiences. They helped me think some of this through, and I'll be carrying this into therapy tomorrow.
Thanks :-)
This is the end of the thread.
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