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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sigismund on June 8, 2011, at 2:40:07
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 7, 2011, at 16:27:32
"It seems we are a pretty rigid lot." Do you mean many abused kids?
No. I meant that it takes death or breakdown sometimes to change things. It could be said that people who are abused can be rigid in not being able to let go, but that is not what I meant.
More the other way. A breakdown in someone enables them to see things from a different point of view. In my case this meant my mother reached out to me, which was all I needed.
Oh dear, your situation is so different. I wouldn't presume to tell you how to feel or when to forgive, which, in any case, comes in its own time.
Posted by sigismund on June 8, 2011, at 2:40:54
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 7, 2011, at 16:44:10
>I dont think i want to forgive them.
Why should you?
Posted by sigismund on June 8, 2011, at 17:06:50
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 7, 2011, at 16:27:32
Respect for boundaries, protection and space within for kids to grow is really important.
I'm sorry for the shameful treatment you have been subject to. It diminishes us all. I hope you can find peace.
Posted by Lamdage on June 10, 2011, at 10:23:19
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat » Lamdage, posted by sigismund on June 8, 2011, at 17:06:50
> Respect for boundaries, protection and space within for kids to grow is really important.
>
> I'm sorry for the shameful treatment you have been subject to. It diminishes us all. I hope you can find peace.I agree.. well i was protected. from the weather :S
Thanks
Posted by torrid on June 16, 2011, at 16:34:37
In reply to Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 5, 2011, at 14:17:44
Interesting questions, I didn't read any of the other responces, I had an impulse to answer your questions
long term effects? yes emotional problems, life long relationship problems, very paranoid and scared of people. can't hold a job and I live on disability. now 47 and I'm recovering.
yes denile. early in life I didn't know that this wasn't normal. BUT at times when my mother was foaming at the mouth in a rage, I would look at her with tears in my eyes and think to myself this is wrong, your not suppose to treat me like this. just a passing thought. I was always trying to be good so mother would be happy. couldn't understand, I was just a kid nail bitting always scared my thoughts didn't go further then looking for ways to prevent mother from going nuts, cleaning my older sisters room after cleaning my own , being very effectionate, asking if she loved me 100 times a day. in my twentys I moved 2000 miles away and then big time denile. told myself my family loved me but they were far away so we were not together on hollidays. fell apart in my 30's and was very angry i told everyone what she did to us and I was the bad guy the wisle blower. I went from begging for her love to hating her. inside I wanted her love, I was pertecting myself. back and forth, love hate till now I see her as a weak person unreliable and I reduced contact with her to alnmost no contact at all. she has no love to give and there is nothing I can do to help her. I keep a safe distance.
forgive,I don't know but I forgot about it. it is part of my past and no longer in my present. No strong emotions attached to those memories anymore, just memories these memories no longer intrude into my present anymore.
I feel so alone right now too. I'm a product of my childhood but my life is my responcibity, blame has no place in my life, time to make repair. I'm no longer helpless victim
Posted by Lamdage on June 17, 2011, at 6:16:29
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat » Lamdage, posted by torrid on June 16, 2011, at 16:34:37
> Interesting questions, I didn't read any of the other responces, I had an impulse to answer your questions
>
> long term effects? yes emotional problems, life long relationship problems, very paranoid and scared of people. can't hold a job and I live on disability. now 47 and I'm recovering.
>
> yes denile. early in life I didn't know that this wasn't normal. BUT at times when my mother was foaming at the mouth in a rage, I would look at her with tears in my eyes and think to myself this is wrong, your not suppose to treat me like this. just a passing thought. I was always trying to be good so mother would be happy. couldn't understand, I was just a kid nail bitting always scared my thoughts didn't go further then looking for ways to prevent mother from going nuts, cleaning my older sisters room after cleaning my own , being very effectionate, asking if she loved me 100 times a day. in my twentys I moved 2000 miles away and then big time denile. told myself my family loved me but they were far away so we were not together on hollidays. fell apart in my 30's and was very angry i told everyone what she did to us and I was the bad guy the wisle blower. I went from begging for her love to hating her. inside I wanted her love, I was pertecting myself. back and forth, love hate till now I see her as a weak person unreliable and I reduced contact with her to alnmost no contact at all. she has no love to give and there is nothing I can do to help her. I keep a safe distance.
>
> forgive,I don't know but I forgot about it. it is part of my past and no longer in my present. No strong emotions attached to those memories anymore, just memories these memories no longer intrude into my present anymore.
>
> I feel so alone right now too. I'm a product of my childhood but my life is my responcibity, blame has no place in my life, time to make repair. I'm no longer helpless victimYes.. i think the truth is our parents hate our freakin guts, anything else would be denial.
Funny thing is.. an emotional "vampire" like my father is one consistently points towards alleged weaknesses. The absurd thing is that, over time, alleged weaknesses become real due to the abuse. This is the goal of any abuser, find vulnerable spots and chip away your self esteem, destroy even your functionality through the described mechanism. I have quit contact to my family 100%, to all of them and it will stay like this. They are vicious people incapable of doing anything but destroying life and liveliness. The longer i live independently from them the more memories and instances of abuse come into my mind.
Even my brother abused me, he and a friend would keep my head under water until i was completely panicking every time and all the time when we went swimming. It was concealed as fun.. and even i had forced myself to laugh about it, but its awful abuse and no one did anything about it.Generally i feel alot better, now that i dont have any contact at all.
Btw I really dont feel that blame and recovery are a contradiction in any way.
Posted by torrid on June 17, 2011, at 9:21:07
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 17, 2011, at 6:16:29
I guess I'm older then you so I'm past the anger. I cut off my family 100% for 7 years in the 90's and those were good years. I hope you get to point I'm at now, I'm strong enough to have a little contact with family. My parent no loner can damage me. I had a sibling, a sociopath sister that finished what my mother started. If siblings bond during abuse there is better survival but when older siblings copy the abusive parent the child singeled out doesn't have much chance.
I call my mother the self esteen killer, the neighbors called her scary mary. She is just a very weak selfish person and I'm indifferent to her. indifference is what you need to aim for, hate is love in a different form, hate is unrequited love. It's not that uncommon, there are many people who have suffered, but survivors don't talk about it, it becomes part of the past and no longer in the present. No matter how many years ago if you hate them it's in your present. I acully feel bad for my mother and her brother "uncle fingers". My sister I don't feel bad for her, if something bad happens to her, I feel bad for her but not that bad, I may even feel, well OK she getting back some of what she put out. I wouldn't take pleasure in her demize but it would make sence.
sory about my spelling, spelling is just guess work for me
Posted by Lamdage on June 17, 2011, at 11:14:38
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 17, 2011, at 6:16:29
> Funny thing is.. an emotional "vampire" like my father is one consistently points towards alleged weaknesses. The absurd thing is that, over time, alleged weaknesses become real due to the abuse. This is the goal of any abuser, find vulnerable spots and chip away your self esteem, destroy even your functionality through the described mechanism.
And of course, they do all this only because they love you so much and because they want to help you. You need the help cuz your such a flawed person and your parents are the only ones whod even deal with this.
Oh wow.
Posted by Lamdage on June 17, 2011, at 12:35:39
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat » Lamdage, posted by torrid on June 17, 2011, at 9:21:07
Dude i wont aim at anything i feel what i feel. If you put the label hatred on it i guess you can do that.
I call it vitality.
Im not very fond of philosphies or people that teach what to feel.A little offense taken to be honest
Posted by sigismund on June 17, 2011, at 14:50:44
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 17, 2011, at 6:16:29
>Yes.. i think the truth is our parents hate our freakin guts,
Well yeah, the rag and bone shop of the human heart. It may be a little more complicated, but there can be lots of really destructive stuff in there.
Posted by sigismund on June 17, 2011, at 14:55:55
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 17, 2011, at 11:14:38
>This is the goal of any abuser, find vulnerable spots and chip away your self esteem, destroy even your functionality through the described mechanism.
I imagine people who do this feel a lot of guilt (about things not being better), and since it is preferable to not have to feel it, that is somehow projected onto the abused person, and it becomes their fault for not being different.
This may be more easily done when there is a lot of enmeshment and terrible boundaries generally.
Posted by torrid on June 17, 2011, at 15:48:35
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 17, 2011, at 12:35:39
I sure don't want to offend you, it's just that angry feeling alters brain chemisty in an unhealthy way. I use to say and feel that my mother was a wound in my side that will not heal until she is dead, and then she will become the memory of a wound in my side that would not heal. Now she is not apart my my thinking and if her name comes up or if I have a reason to communicate with her there is no strong emotions attached to it. I can hang up the phone and it's like she no longer exsists in my head. Now that I buried my grand mother there is no reason for contact with her. At my grandmothers service I noticed the way she is but it triggers nothing, she causes me no pain and the important thing is painful memories are just memories now, I don't relive it anymore. forgive her, she will have to get that from god, but my family is not part of my present life. I can run into my mother or sister at a funeral and I'm completely comfortable, no distressing emotions, no love no hate total indifference. If I get the chance, when she dies I'll donate her body to science, no fairwell of a funneral.
the opposit of love is indifference, love and hate have only a fraction of space between them.
Posted by Lamdage on June 17, 2011, at 15:55:45
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by sigismund on June 17, 2011, at 14:55:55
> >This is the goal of any abuser, find vulnerable spots and chip away your self esteem, destroy even your functionality through the described mechanism.
>
> I imagine people who do this feel a lot of guilt (about things not being better), and since it is preferable to not have to feel it, that is somehow projected onto the abused person, and it becomes their fault for not being different.
>
> This may be more easily done when there is a lot of enmeshment and terrible boundaries generally.Sigi, its all for our own good.. when you have children, youll understand :P
Posted by Lamdage on June 17, 2011, at 16:25:13
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat » Lamdage, posted by torrid on June 17, 2011, at 15:48:35
> I sure don't want to offend you, it's just that angry feeling alters brain chemisty in an unhealthy way. I use to say and feel that my mother was a wound in my side that will not heal until she is dead, and then she will become the memory of a wound in my side that would not heal. Now she is not apart my my thinking and if her name comes up or if I have a reason to communicate with her there is no strong emotions attached to it. I can hang up the phone and it's like she no longer exsists in my head. Now that I buried my grand mother there is no reason for contact with her. At my grandmothers service I noticed the way she is but it triggers nothing, she causes me no pain and the important thing is painful memories are just memories now, I don't relive it anymore. forgive her, she will have to get that from god, but my family is not part of my present life. I can run into my mother or sister at a funeral and I'm completely comfortable, no distressing emotions, no love no hate total indifference. If I get the chance, when she dies I'll donate her body to science, no fairwell of a funneral.
>
> the opposit of love is indifference, love and hate have only a fraction of space between them.
Well i dont approve of your view of anger as something unhealthy and i dont approve of advising other people what to feel and what not.
Posted by larryhoover on June 18, 2011, at 19:44:11
In reply to Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 5, 2011, at 14:17:44
> Hey,
>
> im curious.. Are some of you willing to share their story/thoughts?
>
> 1. What impact did your parents (eventual) mistreatment have on your life?It had a profound effect on me, but more via negligence than by direct effect. I simply failed to learn how people interact in a healthy way. I had no guidance.
> 2. Where you in denial about it? How did you discover your emotions/ resentment?
I wasn't in denial. I was in ignorance. I simply didn't know what I didn't know. It took me many years of therapy to learn the difference between normal and typical. What I had experienced during my childhood was not typical, but it was normal for me. I had to be taught what "typical" was, so that I could begin to understand why I don't know things that my society would have expected me to know: appropriate things to do, things to say, ways of being.
> 3. Do you still have contact with them? Did you forgive them? Why?/Why not?
I can tell by your question that I am much older than you. Both of my parents have passed on. My mother was my abuser, both emotionally and physically. I learned that she may have been in some ways responding to my father, a life-long alcoholic. But I made peace with my father, and he had a great support from his community at his funeral. It was very comforting to experience these strangers (to me) coming out to his memorial service. In contrast, my mother would not allow any emotional conversersations during her terminal illness, and very much manipulated what we talked about, right to the end. There was one non-family attendee at her funeral, and I have never yet been able to visit her grave. I drive by it all the time.
They died five weeks apart, and I can barely imagine situations so dramatically different from each other.
> Id love to hear some of you.. i feel so alone right now
I appreciate the chance to voice my thoughts. I have hardly ever spoken of these things.
Posted by torrid on June 18, 2011, at 20:34:54
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat » Lamdage, posted by larryhoover on June 18, 2011, at 19:44:11
Larry my mother is still alive and very gilt ridden. She goes to a born again church and says with a strange defiance "I was forgiggen" I respond silently in my head "not by me you havn't". I try to encourage her to forgive herself, by she recoils with denile. She waxes and wans between a defiant denile and guilty self pity. At this point she suffers more then me since I have finally got past the experience of having her as a mother, just in time for menopause too. Decades to took for me to get here.
I just burried my grand mother who in my heart was my mom. It truely was enlightening to see how the entire family looked at her confused by her behavior, she couldn't face anyone and didn't attend the 3 full days of family gaterings, only attending the funeral. Her embarressment of what kind of mother she was to me and what kind of daughter she was to my grandmother. I being raised by my grandmother and me being the only one to take care of my grandmother in her final years, she abandoned us both.
I don't need external validation anymore but validation was all around me as we said fairwell to my grandmother. Perhaps your mother was to guilt ridden to acknowledge what she did to you. I hope you can come to see it that way. If your mother could just have said from her heart, "I'm just so sorry".
Posted by Lamdage on June 19, 2011, at 12:50:55
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat » Lamdage, posted by larryhoover on June 18, 2011, at 19:44:11
> > Hey,
> >
> > im curious.. Are some of you willing to share their story/thoughts?
> >
> > 1. What impact did your parents (eventual) mistreatment have on your life?
>
> It had a profound effect on me, but more via negligence than by direct effect. I simply failed to learn how people interact in a healthy way. I had no guidance.
>
> > 2. Where you in denial about it? How did you discover your emotions/ resentment?
>
> I wasn't in denial. I was in ignorance. I simply didn't know what I didn't know. It took me many years of therapy to learn the difference between normal and typical. What I had experienced during my childhood was not typical, but it was normal for me. I had to be taught what "typical" was, so that I could begin to understand why I don't know things that my society would have expected me to know: appropriate things to do, things to say, ways of being.
>You mean taught in terms of working and practicing on a therapeutic relationship? I think this is key.. reparenting and uncovering unhealthy patterns type of therapy. I wish i had a therapist right now.. I had a sweet woman when i was still in the states. She helped big time.. it was with her that i discovered what im all about. Well i have to correct that: discovered alot of what im about, i dont think this task is finished. Well shes one of these women i like to call "angel" :)
> > 3. Do you still have contact with them? Did you forgive them? Why?/Why not?
>
> I can tell by your question that I am much older than you. Both of my parents have passed on. My mother was my abuser, both emotionally and physically. I learned that she may have been in some ways responding to my father, a life-long alcoholic. But I made peace with my father, and he had a great support from his community at his funeral. It was very comforting to experience these strangers (to me) coming out to his memorial service. In contrast, my mother would not allow any emotional conversersations during her terminal illness, and very much manipulated what we talked about, right to the end. There was one non-family attendee at her funeral, and I have never yet been able to visit her grave. I drive by it all the time.It is very hard to forgive someone who does how your mother did. With me both parents where abusers really. And both of them did this "right to the end" without any insight or regret and without any efforts to change this. Quite the opposite. This was right until the very last minute before i terminated all relations. The same goes for my older brother.
@Torrid, i have experienced similar. The fact that folks "fluctuate" in between complete and utter denial and almost complete denial shows me that they are not as rigid as one might think they are and therefore not innocent victims of their conscience. Talking about sending mixed messages/unpredictable behaviour. (damn spelling! how is this done again? ^^)
I believe they do make a more or less conscious decision to stay in denial and ignorance, or less frequently to move out of it.
Posted by torrid on June 19, 2011, at 13:49:44
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on June 19, 2011, at 12:50:55
Lamade I relate to you, to discovering that my childhood wasn't typical, I like that you used the word typicle and not normal. I wasn't taught proper social skills or morals, thank god I was born with morals, I have a sadistic sister that was born without them. As an adult I leaned proper mannors, social ques I'm still weak in that area. As a kid I didn't know what love was, abuse and neglect was all there was.
Yes there is choice there. As a child my mother would go in these foaming out the mouth rages but only when only with her children, she was always able to go to work, she was a valued and respected employee for 35 years at her job. Yes she choices then when to loss control and now she choices when to be a marter displaying her guilt, how she is suffering for what she did to her kids, narsisic self pity. It's weakness in her character, she is a selfish self centered person.
My denile in my 20's had a different motivation, I told my self she loved me because I wasn't ready to accept that she didn't. Now I can accept it that she didn't love me, not because I was lacking and unlovable, because of what she lacked in her character. I'm jumping around from what I mentioned in prior posts in this thread hope you can follow.
Posted by sigismund on June 20, 2011, at 15:17:55
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat » Lamdage, posted by larryhoover on June 18, 2011, at 19:44:11
There was a woman in England I read about ages ago who said to her daughter/son......
I'm going to die now, could you please leave the room.
Posted by Lamdage on July 2, 2011, at 2:25:57
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat » larryhoover, posted by sigismund on June 20, 2011, at 15:17:55
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLKQkY6aMpo
Hows that for anger?
I met some creepy psychology major yesterday who explained to me that "we wanna neutralize these negative feelings, we want people to be completely unaffected by them".
To be honest some peoples attitudes send shivers down my spine. Brave new world indeed.
Posted by Lamdage on July 2, 2011, at 2:34:53
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on July 2, 2011, at 2:25:57
Thats were the ssri/cbt folks are wanting to go.. Now i know why everything Effexor did was numbing me. creepy sh*t. Not what i want from therapy, at all
Whos with me?
Posted by Lamdage on July 2, 2011, at 2:39:40
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on July 2, 2011, at 2:34:53
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N940Yij67E&feature=related
even better
Posted by torrid on July 2, 2011, at 8:55:20
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on July 2, 2011, at 2:25:57
I watched 19 seconds of it, 9 seconds more then I wanted to, 10 seconds was more then enough. What the heck? I think I must be to old and have to much estrogen to see the point of it.
Posted by Lamdage on July 3, 2011, at 2:52:20
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat » Lamdage, posted by torrid on July 2, 2011, at 8:55:20
> I watched 19 seconds of it, 9 seconds more then I w.anted to, 10 seconds was more then enough. What the heck? I think I must be to old and have to much estrogen to see the point of it.
Haha, "what the heck".
I can see how this ones not for everyone, its not their.. well, most soft-spoken song;)
I think the point of it is to help folks release their emotion.. If youve been hurt like that. The guy got over depression this way and helped quite a few of his listeners to do so, too.There are many ways to rome!
Posted by Lamdage on July 3, 2011, at 4:39:10
In reply to Re: Child Abuse/Familydysfunction.. lets chat, posted by Lamdage on July 3, 2011, at 2:52:20
And mine is through resentment, anger, grief, disappointment, insight, shame, regret, even hatred if you will so. Depression prevented me from feeling anything.
Its a bittersweet, but really sweet and relieving thing when the avalanche of repressed pain releases goes down..This is salvation for me.. then again not everyones depression is rooted like mine. I can only speak for me and many other folks i know that thats the way
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