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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by annabelle smith on April 30, 2011, at 18:32:02
I feel like what I am trapped by is a constantly frustrated need to speak my own voice.
I am looking for release.
I know that I come on here, and it seems as if I just go on and on like a broken record. But there is a constant feeling of trying in vain to articulate something that can't be articulated. The harder I try, the further it escapes from my grasp. It feels like my mind is the lost seeker within its own constructed maze. As it searches for a way out of the maze, it doubles back upon itself and twists every path into tormenting circles and dead ends. So there is no exit. No exit from hell.
It is like being inside of a feverish nightmare. I remember one time when I had a really high fever as a kid, I had a particular nightmare that left me exhausted for hours once I had awakened. It had to do with a mathematics problem that I was supposed to figure out. But I could never come up with an answer, because I was never able to even figure out the question. In that dream, it was like my mind was tripping over itself, turning upon itself in attack.
I feel like there is something inside of me welling up for release-- a kind of inner truth that has to be set free. If it is not, it is going to kill me.
Today is like being in hell. All day. Every moment drags, and the nights are the worst of all.
I have been working through my DBT skills workbook, and know about all of the skills:
distraction
self-soothing
mindfulness meditation
thought diffusion
wise mindI have created my emergency cards. Despite what everyone has been saying, I actually have taken steps to help myself.
But my problem is not the intensity of the moment-- it is the unbearableness of this whole fake way of being.
I feel like I am part of the living dead. I am dead inside, I and don't know how to come back to life. I can't find my own voice; I am a fake. I always smile at others and say what I think they want me to say. But inside, I feel empty and dead.
That is what I have to escape from. And that I where suicide is the answer.I just want someone to believe me, that this is real, that I am real, that how I feel is real.
I just need to own my voice and speak my truth, but I don't know how.I think my therapist might believe me, and that is why I am afraid to leave him-- what little truth and reality I have, are contained in him. But I need to know how to break free into truth and reality-- I feel like something inside is pushing for release, and until it is free, there will be no rest. Death or freedom.
I feel like the only way to be true is with a suicide gesture-- to go to the hospital, for the feelings and experiences to be validated as real, for everyone to finally know the truth. I have carried this truth inside for so long, and no one believes me. But I would rather everyone finally know the truth-- my parents, my friends, everyone-- than have to continue living this lie.
It's really not about medication. I am not depressed. I am unreal and dead. I need to release my energy, life, and voice. If I don't, I swear to God, I will not continue living.
Posted by Dinah on April 30, 2011, at 21:32:35
In reply to How do you speak your own voice?, posted by annabelle smith on April 30, 2011, at 18:32:02
The problem with using suicidal gestures is that people don't hear the message you're trying to send. They hear something different entirely.
It's far better to use your words.
If you say you feel this way, I believe that you feel this way.
I also believe you when you say this isn't about depression. But I hope you hear me when I say that medications aren't only about depression either. A decent psychiatrist wouldn't actually try to treat you for a depression you don't have.
Pragmatically speaking, what do you think would happen if you acted out in the way you describe? Do you think they'll feel compassion or do you think they'll feel anger? Do you think this will draw you closer to others? Maybe you could ask others here how attempts to communicate by acting out actually works in real life.
Are you getting what you want from your current method of seeking care and attention? Are there more effective ways to achieve your goals?
I totally understand the impulse. I have been in the place where I acted out my feelings, where I tried to communicate with self harm. I tell you that no one *ever* heard the message that I was trying to convey that way. They heard something entirely different. They felt something entirely different than what I wanted them to feel. I did not get what I wanted by doing the things I did.
And I say that from the standpoint of someone who has now achieved their goals in this area. But not by those means.
There's nothing wrong with trying to get the care you need from others. But is what you describe the most effective way to get it?
If you think you're in any danger of acting on your thoughts, Babble can not be sufficient help. Please call your therapist.
Posted by wittgensteinz on May 1, 2011, at 2:33:46
In reply to How do you speak your own voice?, posted by annabelle smith on April 30, 2011, at 18:32:02
A suicide gesture has a great potential to make things a lot, lot worse.
1. It will likely destroy the trust between you and your therapist. He may even decide to stop treating you and refer your to an inpatient facility.
2. Rather than drawing people closer, letting them understand, they will more likely distance themselves because sui is such a difficult topic for most people to comprehend.
Is it about proving the seriousness of your illness to yourself? Mental illness is taboo and it's hard (or simply not an option) to disclose it to those who (should) care about us. I can understand the desire to be validated and understood. But trust me, it will only hurt people and yourself - it won't make things better. You also have to be prepared to lose your therapist if you decide to make such a gesture - many therapists just can't work under that pressure and with that break-down in trust.
Why don't you just talk to him? Why aren't words enough? Or write it down to give to him - don't actually do it - find a way to articulate it without taking such a drastic step.
Meds can help with cyclical/obsessive thoughts - they can aid your toolkit - help dissipate the negativity. Seroquel, for example, can be good in aiding sleep, and calming you down.
Witti
Posted by sleepygirl2 on May 1, 2011, at 10:32:12
In reply to How do you speak your own voice?, posted by annabelle smith on April 30, 2011, at 18:32:02
I get the sense that you read a lot about borderline personality disorder.
I'm not sure that such a theoretical approach can really get a handle on your difficulties. A real life interaction between yourself and your therapist, and a discussion about obstacles in your relationships however might yield something different. You are not some definition within a book. I would hope you would not do yourself such a disservice.
None of us are. We might be people who struggle with finding satisfaction, security, and connection in this world. Many of us have experienced significant trauma in our relationships, and a lack of safety. Repair comes in part from the experience of a different quality in relationships, a commitment to taking care of yourself concretely, in your actions.
I am saying this because finding understanding and validation in a book can only go so far, and therapy can only go so far.
There is not so much a magic revelation as there is a pushing through old ways of thinking and relating that do not help you now as they might have saved you before.
And as far as medications go.... Not the total answer either. What they can do is help manage the intensity of emotional experience. You can't spend your time at the end of a plank. It's too far away from the people that you might find comfort from.
You are someone, as far as I can tell from the content of your posts, who has excelled academically. That is a strength. You have them.
Well, that's my 2 cents.
Take excellent care of yourself, accept nothing less. And talk, talk, talk to the people in your life.
Be well
Posted by Willful on May 1, 2011, at 10:41:03
In reply to How do you speak your own voice?, posted by annabelle smith on April 30, 2011, at 18:32:02
Annabelle, if you truly want your T to understand all the stuff you can't tell him in the appointments, you can take in your posts from this place and let him read them.
You can select the most recent ones, or ones from the past and present -- or any combination you like-- but if you do really want him to understand you have that option-- at any time you decide to take that risk, which you don't seem ready to do yet.
About suicide, I COULD NOT AGREE MORE with Dinah and Witti-- you will not accomplish what you want, and will put yourself into a much worse, more trapped and more impossible situation by a suicide attempt than you can possibly imagine. On just one count-- that you don't want to take meds-- that decision will be taken out of your hands. So try to remember, that suicide is not a romanic gesture that suddenly moves people who can't understand to see your suffering-- it simply puts you under the control of people most of whom are not interested in you personally, and who have a program of treatment that they will expect you to follow.
Check out Daphne Merkin's articles (or maybe a book by now) about her experiences in therapy and hospitalization at Columbia Presbyterian, which is an excellent psychiatric facility. Not that I think it's so insightful-- but she is a very bright, wealthy, and well known client-- and yet the treatment she received was not very caring or reviving. Not a book yet, apparently. Published in the NY Times Magazine section of August 4,2010, entitled "My Life in Therapy." I'm not sure about access if you're not a NYT subscriber. However, if you can't access it and are interested, you can let me know.
You need to do a whole lot more of the self-soothing than you do. That is really hard but from my point of view, other than meds, it's the one effective method of dealing with the terrible feelings you have so much.Try guided meditations-- any kind you like. Try Youtube, or google or check the Itunes Store for buddhism podcasts.. I like and listen every day to ones from a website (also an Itunes podcast) from Insight Meditation-- http://www.audiodharma.org/ . They have wonderful talks about how to live, many very wonderful teachers, and also many excellent guided meditations.
Willful
Posted by Annabelle Smith on May 3, 2011, at 13:39:04
In reply to Re: How do you speak your own voice?, posted by Willful on May 1, 2011, at 10:41:03
Willful, Witti, Dinah, and Sleepygirl,
Thank you all for your posts and responses.
I think you are right-- you guys have been there and know.
Sometimes I feel like the gesture is really the only way that I have left to bust out of my fake prison. But maybe there are other ways. Maybe I should start, as you all suggest, by just really talking to my therapist. I know that he believes me.
Witti, you wrote:
>> Is it about proving the seriousness of your illness to yourself? Mental illness is taboo and it's hard (or simply not an option) to disclose it to those who (should) care about us. I can understand the desire to be validated and understood.<<
I think it might be about "proving the seriousness of my illness to myself." I can't make sense of my experiences over the past 13 years of my life, and especially over the past year. It has been a constant indescribable pain, hell, emptiness, and despair. Maybe I don't want to let go of it, because to do so, is to feel like I am burying something that I don't know how to make sense of. Maybe I want to tell myself that this is real. I certainly want to tell myself that it has been real-- I need to know that what I have felt is real.
A gesture would let others and myself know that this is for real. I need to let myself know this. But it is really in my head. I don't have to act on these feelings. It must be why it is called mental illness-- it is in my head. I don't know if I am crazy or not. If there is something wrong with me or not. If I am ok or not. It goes back and forth.
There is a terrifying feeling in approaching life. I feel completely and utterly lost. Like I have lost myself. Lost my way.
But I think you are right about the gesture-- it would have negative consequences. I couldn't stand to lost my therapist, although I don't think he would leave me in the middle of all of this. He is actually trained in working with suicidality and borderline personality disorder, and unlike most therapists, welcomes such clients to his practice. But I shouldn't do this to him, to my family, and maybe most of all, to myself.
I think I deserve better than this. I am just trying to figure out what to do to get through.
Maybe my therapist and I can work together to find ways to help me build a true way of existing, a true self, and a meaningful life.
Willful, thanks for the suggestion about taking in my posts to my therapist. I have actually done this many times. We started out by him reading them silently to himself. Then we progressed to where he read them out loud. Last time I brought one in, he was hestitant to take it, as he wanted me to try to read it out loud to both of us. But I couldn't do it then, so he read it out loud for us. I do feel like I'm drowning in words. I wish I could just bring in all of my posts and chaos and just drop them at his feet and say: here, please know the truth and please help me.
But a session is only 45 minutes and there is not time for all of it. That is one reason that I freeze in a session-- I become overwhelmed with how much I have to say, and can't pick one for the many.
Posted by wittgensteinz on May 3, 2011, at 18:47:29
In reply to Re: How do you speak your own voice? » Willful, posted by Annabelle Smith on May 3, 2011, at 13:39:04
Annabelle,
My sessions are also 45 minutes. It is quite short to get into things.
I have the feeling that in your situation you would benefit from twice weekly sessions if it were feasible. Is it an option for you/your T?
In the past I used to see my T twice sometimes thrice weekly - it helped with the continuity/connectedness. I now usually see him once weekly but it is a different stage of the therapy so the intensity isn't so essential anymore.
It's good that you share your posts with your T. It's also of course a bonus that he specialises in your diagnosis (although a diagnosis is just that - there is of course a lot more to Annabelle Smith than a list of diagnostic criteria) and his expertise in dealing with suicidality will hopefully mean that he is open to talking to you about it and helping you with those feelings.
My therapist always gets noticeably upset when the topic of suicidality comes up, which makes me avoid it. Being able to talk about it openly is important - there's nothing wrong with having the desire to act out in that way - as long as you articulate how you feel and don't actually act upon it - I know that's hard because I've been there in the past. It's important to do all you can when you don't feel that way to prevent it happening. It would be such a loss and a waste when there is so much potential for improvement and growth.
Btw, with regard to reading on BPD and outcomes - don't get too engrossed in prognosis studies. One problem is that these studies are largely based on clinical samples (i.e. people who are in inpatient facilities). Ambulant 'patients' like yourself may well have a very different more positive prognosis. Furthermore, a lot of studies are dated - treatment can be effective and while so-called personality disorders don't go away they may well change as a person ages - often with BPD people experience a decrease in symptoms and learn how to cope better with their problems over time. The critical phase is making it through this period and enabling yourself sufficient time in therapy to make progress. If you would harm yourself now, you might be taking away your chance of improvement (even a gesture is dangerous - what if it goes too far or goes wrong?).
Witti
Posted by Annabelle Smith on May 3, 2011, at 20:32:07
In reply to Re: How do you speak your own voice? » Annabelle Smith, posted by wittgensteinz on May 3, 2011, at 18:47:29
This is currently causing me significant distress.
I think it is a huge case of not being understood by others, of being fake, and also the insuations that others make.It is hard to sit with the feelings I am having right now. I have an acquaintance (she calls herself my friend, but that is a hard label for me to apply to most people) who I have known at my university for the past 4 years. Most of the people here all move away after they graduate. One day I was particularly upset about wanting to leave for Boston but also having to stay because I was unable to leave my therapist. I have written on here about that-- being stuck.
She couldn't understand why I don't just leave. I was feeling so lonely and sad that I told her my situation-- I took a risk and trusted her and told her. As I told her how I felt-- attached, dependent, even merged-- she got this smile on her face and said: It sounds like love! It simulaneously infuriated me and made me feel hopeless. I immediately tried to tell her that no, it was different. There is a kind of deep love involved, but now what she is thinking. She didn't believe me and proceeded to refer to my therapist as "this guy." She still does that. I had to spend 6 hours with her today, first sitting with her as she cried during one of her many emotional turmoils that she goes through-- often because of guys.
We went to a mall nearby here that is way too expensive for my budget. (I already don't know how I am going to be able to afford to make it on my own--rent, food, therapy). This individual is a student from China and her parents are apparently pretty high up in the gov't there. She has all the money she ever needs. This particular mall has mostly stores that are extremely expensive with perfect looking people all around.
The entire time there today-- all afternoon-- I felt miserable. She spent about $300+ dollars on clothes and kept asking me why I didn't buy anything. I think I felt ashamed for not having enought money. I never have, because my family is not rich. Most people at my school are so wealthy and it makes me feel like sh*t compared them. I just walked around the ridiculous stores today acting interested with a fake smile on my face. But the whole time, with every unfortunate glance in the mirror, I kept seeing how ugly I am compared to what is beautiful in our culture, feeling like I need to lose a lot of weight, and towards the end, feeling this need to just tear into my body-- destroy it, make it change, punish it.
Two things about this individual. First, because English is not her first language, I think we do have a bit of a language/culture barrier that might contribute to our not totally always communicating clearly. Second, she is crazy about guys. She thinks about them all the time.
I am not. I have never been in a relationship before and though I am attracted to guys, don't feel stong romantic inclinations. I think I'm not able yet, like I have to figure out who I am as a self and be more stable in that before I can think about relationships.
What infuritated me and has made me feel so utterly alone is what she insinuated about my feelings towards my therapist. I can tell that she is so eager to talk about this. At dinner, she finally asked with a smile about "this guy," my therapist. I wanted to punch her-- I was so enraged. I can't explain to her. I don't have the words for it. She asked me to tell her about my problems-- what is wrong. I couldn't; I just said depression, because that is easy to say.
But I can't tell her that I feel fake, unreal, suicial, angry, empty, hurt, ok and not-ok, crazy and not-crazy, lost, and alone.
She starts to make me wonder if I am doing something wrong in my therapeutic relationship-- if my attachment is inappropriate. I do feel a love towards my therapist, but it is like a primal love, a love stronger than I have ever felt before because it is like all of the loves I have ever had in my life-- for my mom, my dad, my brother, my childhood, my grandparents, and God-- have been centered upon my therapist. That's not to mention all of the other longings that I have had for an authority figure to pay attention, give care, and understand. There is nothing romantic about it, and insofar as there might be a hint of that, it is all mixed in with the primal love.
I just want validation, to be told that my attachment is OK-- that it is part of the issue that I am trying to get help with.
What I wanted to tell my acquaintance is: "you have no f*ck*ng idea the hell that this has been. So please leave me the f*ck alone." But I was nice and just ripped apart inside.
I think that what I'm feeling is OK-- I've read about attachment and bpd. Usually there is insecure, anxious, and unresolved attachment styles.
I really wasn't able to leave this town because of my therapist. That doesn't make sense to most people, especially when I gave up a better opportunity. But most people haven't felt what I have felt. (I think many of you have-- but not most people in the general population). But I am not trying to be bad or inappropriate. It's just that to leave, would have made me feel undone on an ultimate level-- alone. And I would have felt terrible resentment, like the one thing I needed most-- another human being to hear me and understand and care-- would be ripped away from me, like always has been.
Please tell me that you guys get this and that I am not bad for feeling this way-- or crazy-- or inappropriate. Just trying to work through a real issued.
Posted by Tabitha on May 4, 2011, at 0:30:15
In reply to Would like your thoughts_but PLEASE be gentle » wittgensteinz, posted by Annabelle Smith on May 3, 2011, at 20:32:07
That's a really good explanation. I think I get it.
You're in awful turmoil inside, even though you appear to be a pretty normal functioning person and can fake your way through a mall trip with an acquaintance.
It's not crazy, it's an attachment issue, lots of people have it to one degree or another.
It's not inappropriate to feel what you're feeling. It's a very common occurrence in therapy. Check the board archives-- you'll get the impression that the majority of therapy clients are 'in love' or obsessed with their therapists.
I think you're doing amazingly well to be able to function with that degree of inner turmoil.
I'm sorry about the experience with the shopping companion. Like many people, she heard your experience, tried to relate it to herself, and based the whole rest of the encounter on assuming it's a crush story, which is something she understands. It was her very limited way of connecting. I think you were wise to hold back and not gush out the real story with her. She wouldn't get it, and you might seem a little cuckoo. Kudos for surviving the trip! It's a skill to be able to share a little bit more truth without gushing, and if you don't have that skill yet, I think you chose the better option (silence).
Posted by wittgensteinz on May 4, 2011, at 13:13:15
In reply to Would like your thoughts_but PLEASE be gentle » wittgensteinz, posted by Annabelle Smith on May 3, 2011, at 20:32:07
Isn't it a question of 'before you've been there you can't really get it'?
I don't find your feelings toward your T weird or over the top. I think a lot of people in long-term therapy experience similarly strong feelings.
My therapist is a lot older than me (he's older than my real father i.e. past retirement age) - and he has come to feel very much like a father to me (I suspect he also has some fatherly feelings, but maybe I am mistaken) - over the past few years I've felt a mix of feelings toward him, some of which felt quite unacceptable to me - the intensity of the feelings has also varied over time (at times in the past I sometimes missed him terribly between sessions). I hope (and expect) that in years to come I will look back at my time in therapy with him as a very special and close relationship (albeit a necessarily one-sided one). He probably knows more about me than anyone else - so it's not surprising that that dynamic brings up strong feelings.
Do you feel that your therapist accepts the extent of your feelings toward him? Have you been able to share about them with him? I guess that's the most important thing - outsiders are likely to be annoying and insensitive as they just don't get what it's about.
Witti
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