![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Annabelle Smith on November 10, 2010, at 20:43:59
I thought I would give an update and just need to talk.
Today I had a termination session with the new therapist that I have been seeing over the past couple months. I felt unreal during the whole thing-- like it wasn't me sitting there. My mind was blank, and I couldn't speak or think. A voice came out and thoughts were put forward but they weren't fully mine. I left feeling so awful. I don't know what I needed to tell him-- I think I wanted to scream at him that things aren't ok and I need help. I am going back to the therapist I was originally working with to seek that.
I have been feeling so out of control and have been having problems with binging again. After I left the session, I told myself that I would sit with the chaos and unreality of my self, but couldn't do it-- a couple candy bars later, I felt even worse. I tried to throw up, but all I could do was gag and get a lot of junk coming from my throat but no vomit. I wanted to drown out everything that had happened by burying my whole chaotic experience with him and then purge it out, like it had never happened.
I think part of the pain comes from knowing that he doesn't understand me. I got the sense that this therapist gets me very well on a surface and explanatory level-- he helped me see many things in a new light about my relationship with my family and lack of a sense of self and direction that stem from that. But I don't think he understands me on a deeper level beyond words and explanations-- I needed an emotional attunement, a sense of a safe place to "be." I wanted to be understood in this way-- not just with wordy explanations but with real attunement. I want to be able to really share the emptiness and ache with someone-- I wonder that if it is shared, then maybe it will lessen, maybe it won't crush me so much. As we finally discussed labels, he told me that he could see me as having some borderline symptoms but not as being borderline-- he told me that I wasn't suicidal and that I wasn't self-harming. I wanted to tell him so badly that that is not true-- neither of those things are true. He doesn't understand. It's not that I need the label of borderline, or any label for that matter. I agree with this therapist and others who say that the DSM IV labels are restrive and do not account for the complexity of persons.
What bothers me is not that I don't have a label to hold onto; what bothers me is that even someone that I go to for help can't understand, can't enter the chaos. I feel so unreal.
Does anyone know what I mean when I say that I feel unreal? I can't fill out the term-- I have tried and tried, but can't define what the "it" is that is wrong. Something is awry. It is like my voice is reverberating back and forth in my head and it won't stop. It's like I live in a castle that no body else can enter into, like I am drowing in words, there is no direction, just a dizzying spiral. And the unreality is that it is all in my head-- I can't even communicate this with anyone, as today evidenced. I have failed in this therapy.
I hope so desparately that my new therapist can help me. I worry what happens if he can't. Maybe I am idealizing him too much. Today in the termination session my therapist told me that I play the helpless role in therapy and am not as helpless as I put on to be, that I am actually very resourceful and competent. That is only half-true, I think. Sometimes I am. But there is this part of me that in every moment of the day is scratching under the surface for release from hell. In every interaction with another person, this self wants to break down and give up-- but it can't. Only in therapy is that possible; that's why I don't know how to 'be' in sessions; now I am free to be whatever, no role, but I feel overwhelmed by that-- it makes me feel helpless.
Is that real or fake? I don't know. My going back and forth makes it all seem chaotic and unreal.Can anyone relate?
Posted by Solstice on November 10, 2010, at 22:01:19
In reply to Therapy and termination, posted by Annabelle Smith on November 10, 2010, at 20:43:59
Hi Annabelle -
I am sorry you are experiencing so much anxiety. I have had trouble with it myself, and I hate being taken over by it.
I can relate to feeling 'unreal.' And I know what you mean about it being hard to describe. I went in and out of that sensation over a period of about four years. I am not a psychologist, but I do read a lot about things that have affected me. It helps me. I worried about that sense of being 'unreal' too. I experienced it a lot when I was in my previous toxic therapy.
It took a long time for it to subside. My therapist thinks it was in the same neighborhood as dissociation. I worried about it, but my understanding is that it's just a more acute version of what people do all the time when they wander off in their minds - daydreaming - and things like that. My therapist believed it was a result of a quick succession of traumatic experiences that overwhelmed my ability to cope - leaving me with many of the symptoms of PTSD. I think anxiety also plays a role. My therapist talked a lot about 'integration.' Not in the true sense of DID or DD, but in the sense of my, over time, integrating my traumatic experiences in a way that would be manageable for me. It sure took a long time, but during the last year, I've only had a few times I've experienced it... and those times were when something triggered a trauma response in me (because my adrenalin system was hyper-sensitive). It has felt good to have such an extended period of my brain not kicking into overdrive for inexplicable reasons. I was not clear on what 'integration' meant.. but when I felt 'integrated' I knew that's what it was.
Terminating was probably scary. It may have activated your nervous system - and your mind was protecting itself by separating itself into 'real' and 'unreal' compartments to help you cope with the stress of it. Feeling overwhelmed is a very helpless feeling.
I'd like to see you just hang in there until you return to the therapist that felt safe for you and can explain to him what you're experiencing. I'll bet experiencing a sense of safety with an attuned therapist will do you a world of good.
Solstice
> I thought I would give an update and just need to talk.
>
> Today I had a termination session with the new therapist that I have been seeing over the past couple months. I felt unreal during the whole thing-- like it wasn't me sitting there. My mind was blank, and I couldn't speak or think. A voice came out and thoughts were put forward but they weren't fully mine. I left feeling so awful. I don't know what I needed to tell him-- I think I wanted to scream at him that things aren't ok and I need help. I am going back to the therapist I was originally working with to seek that.
>
> I have been feeling so out of control and have been having problems with binging again. After I left the session, I told myself that I would sit with the chaos and unreality of my self, but couldn't do it-- a couple candy bars later, I felt even worse. I tried to throw up, but all I could do was gag and get a lot of junk coming from my throat but no vomit. I wanted to drown out everything that had happened by burying my whole chaotic experience with him and then purge it out, like it had never happened.
>
> I think part of the pain comes from knowing that he doesn't understand me. I got the sense that this therapist gets me very well on a surface and explanatory level-- he helped me see many things in a new light about my relationship with my family and lack of a sense of self and direction that stem from that. But I don't think he understands me on a deeper level beyond words and explanations-- I needed an emotional attunement, a sense of a safe place to "be." I wanted to be understood in this way-- not just with wordy explanations but with real attunement. I want to be able to really share the emptiness and ache with someone-- I wonder that if it is shared, then maybe it will lessen, maybe it won't crush me so much. As we finally discussed labels, he told me that he could see me as having some borderline symptoms but not as being borderline-- he told me that I wasn't suicidal and that I wasn't self-harming. I wanted to tell him so badly that that is not true-- neither of those things are true. He doesn't understand. It's not that I need the label of borderline, or any label for that matter. I agree with this therapist and others who say that the DSM IV labels are restrive and do not account for the complexity of persons.
>
> What bothers me is not that I don't have a label to hold onto; what bothers me is that even someone that I go to for help can't understand, can't enter the chaos. I feel so unreal.
>
> Does anyone know what I mean when I say that I feel unreal? I can't fill out the term-- I have tried and tried, but can't define what the "it" is that is wrong. Something is awry. It is like my voice is reverberating back and forth in my head and it won't stop. It's like I live in a castle that no body else can enter into, like I am drowing in words, there is no direction, just a dizzying spiral. And the unreality is that it is all in my head-- I can't even communicate this with anyone, as today evidenced. I have failed in this therapy.
>
> I hope so desparately that my new therapist can help me. I worry what happens if he can't. Maybe I am idealizing him too much. Today in the termination session my therapist told me that I play the helpless role in therapy and am not as helpless as I put on to be, that I am actually very resourceful and competent. That is only half-true, I think. Sometimes I am. But there is this part of me that in every moment of the day is scratching under the surface for release from hell. In every interaction with another person, this self wants to break down and give up-- but it can't. Only in therapy is that possible; that's why I don't know how to 'be' in sessions; now I am free to be whatever, no role, but I feel overwhelmed by that-- it makes me feel helpless.
> Is that real or fake? I don't know. My going back and forth makes it all seem chaotic and unreal.
>
> Can anyone relate?
Posted by Annabelle Smith on November 10, 2010, at 23:55:04
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Solstice on November 10, 2010, at 22:01:19
Solstice, thank you so much for your response. I read through one of your recent posts here about your relationship with your toxic T and the process of moving a healing T. We also talked about this in one of my posts a couple weeks ago.
You mention hanging in there until I visit my therapist-- which is in less than 40 hours. However, worse than this awful in-between time is the fear that when I actually get to the session, I won't be able to tell him what is going on-- and so the unreality perpetuates itself. Sometimes I feel like just going into a session and dumping about a load of books and tons of filled crumpled sheets of paper on the floor and just say "here"-- that is the chaos. My current therapist (old therapist) knows the therapist I just terminated with actually transferred me to him when he left the center on campus. Being aware that I do project and distort reality, I know that probably, I am distorting this too-- but for now, it is how things really seem to me.
Solstice, I think you will understand this. The difference between the two therapists is how they do therapy and how they "are" when they do therapy. In the termination session today we discussed reasons for my decision to go back to my old therapist. I told him the main reason was because of my deep attachment to my old therapist that I worked with last year-- that our work was interrupted for 6 months over the summer and that I needed to go back to him to heal. My therapist got that today. However, what I didn't tell him is that one of the big reasons that I needed to leave was because I didn't feel safe anymore and I didn't trust him anymore. The safety and trust were there for a little while, but after that one session where I felt blamed for being silent, accused of playing the role of the victim, and then my phone call was never returned, as hard as I tried, I couldn't feel the same trust and safety anymore.
The therapist that I am working with now has a way of being that soothes me. His voice, his gaze, his very presence in the room makes me feel like I am held in a safe place. In our session last week, I showed him one of my posts, and he read it to himself. He held the post in his hands the entire session and afterwards, offered to give it back to me or asked if I wanted him to hold on to it for me. I told him that I wanted him to hold on to it, and he thanked me; in a genuine way, he thanked me and told me that he really appreciated that. That made me feel a kind of acceptance and validation that no explanation can ever give me, regardless of how detailed and brilliant. In fact, I can find explanations by myself-- that's what I have been doing and that is why I am drowing in words and theories. I need a person to relate to who can help me feel human again, who can help me feel like it is ok to exist and that who is willing to sit in the chaos with me, not try to explain it all to me.
In order for a person to be able to sit-with in the chaos, I think this person must know about that place of emptiness too and even have experienced it themselves. Some people simply have not, or if they have, they don't allow themselves to recognize it. I know that the only person who can help me heal in the deepest part of my being is the person who knows that place of chaos and darkness that refuses to be named. I can intuit this unnamable place in the depths of my encounter with the therapist that I have gone back to work with. When I say that my words fail and I am in chaos, I think he knows what I mean, not from words but from having been there too. I could be wrong, but I do know that he gets things on a level that I need most desperately.
Does that make sense to you?
On more thing is that I have been concerned that I am too attached to my therapist. I have heard that a strong therapeutic attachment and attunement is the source for true healing and transformation in therapy. But I have been told that over-attachment can stop therapy from progressing-- it can even make someone not want to get better because then they would have to leave this safe womb, the arms of the compassionate God.
What do you think?
My only thought is that while over-attachment and extreme idealization (even enmeshment) bring with them distressing emotions while in the process of therapy and may at times foster a resistence to becoming independent and better, they still present a very powerful and real situation to work through. For me, therapy is the meta-situation of my life. If I can get through all of this and not feel the distressing attachment, I am entering a place where I am more healed. Until things are not-ok, I will feel this ache; hopefully, as I can share with another person, I will become more whole and healed and will not be so desperate for this therapeutic relationship. There will be better relationships with others and myself in life so I won't need therapy anymore. that would be the goal.
sorry I wrote so much. i just feel so upset. do you have any ideas about any of this?
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 11, 2010, at 1:00:10
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Annabelle Smith on November 10, 2010, at 23:55:04
annebelle -Are you terminating with your new T because he is leaving the facily where you are being seen? Or is he terminating you becaise he can't work with you. It's a little nclear.
Posted by Solstice on November 11, 2010, at 1:24:59
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Annabelle Smith on November 10, 2010, at 23:55:04
> You mention hanging in there until I visit my therapist-- which is in less than 40 hours. However, worse than this awful in-between time is the fear that when I actually get to the session, I won't be able to tell him what is going on-- and so the unreality perpetuates itself.There have been times, with my HT, that I have anticipated being unable to talk about something that I knew was important for me to talk about. What helped me most was being able to write it down and 'say' it without having to find the courage to speak it. Just tell him. Tell him of the trouble you're having describing it - and that you worry that when you get there you won't be able to get the words out. You probably don't want to overwhelm him with things to read, but maybe you could either do like you've already done and take him a post that describes it, or pick out the most important topic to you and write what you fear you won't be able to say - then give it to him in therapy.
> Sometimes I feel like just going into a session and dumping about a load of books and tons of filled crumpled sheets of paper on the floor and just say "here"-- that is the chaos. My current therapist (old therapist) knows the therapist I just terminated with actually transferred me to him when he left the center on campus. Being aware that I do project and distort reality, I know that probably, I am distorting this too-- but for now, it is how things really seem to me.I'd tell him this too.
> However, what I didn't tell him is that one of the big reasons that I needed to leave was because I didn't feel safe anymore and I didn't trust him anymore. The safety and trust were there for a little while, but after that one session where I felt blamed for being silent, accused of playing the role of the victim,When I read that in your initial post, I knew he put the nail in the coffin with that one. My TT used to do stuff like that. What are they thinking? When they make a declaration like that - where they are implying they know your hidden motives - I hate that. What has turned out to be interesting to me is that therapists are therapists you know, and part of that is for them to suggest what they see going on. From the beginning, when my HT wants to call my attention to something, it's always prefaced with something like "I'm wondering if..." or "Maybe you are..." and then closed with "what do you think?" The beauty of that is that if I think HT has missed the mark, I can say "Well, I think it's more that I...", etc. TT never let me do that. If I tried to give him more information that would clarify his declaration about what I was 'doing,' he never, ever included my sense of myself into the equation. I not only felt misunderstood, but I felt judged. It was so destructive to me.
> The therapist that I am working with now has a way of being that soothes me. His voice, his gaze, his very presence in the room makes me feel like I am held in a safe place.You are where you need to be.
> offered to give it back to me or asked if I wanted him to hold on to it for me. I told him that I wanted him to hold on to it, and he thanked me; in a genuine way, he thanked me and told me that he really appreciated that. That made me feel a kind of acceptance and validation that no explanation can ever give me,I know what you're talking about! Your therapist here is attuned to you.. and his handling of what you gave him clearly demonstrates that he is capable of therapeutic care. Without being able to infuse the client with acceptance and validation... the words they say mean nothing.
> In order for a person to be able to sit-with in the chaos, I think this person must know about that place of emptiness too and even have experienced it themselves.I'm not sure that they have to have personally experienced it. I think really good therapists are intuitive and attuned. And even if they have not personally experienced what their client is struggling with - the good ones are able to imagine themselves in the place of their client... which leads to the empathy so important for a therapist to be attuned. I'm making a point of saying this because I'd hate to see you build your confidence in his ability to help you on the belief that he has experienced it too... and then be jarred if you find out he hasn't. My HT has not experienced most of the trauma that has taken place in my life, but that has not in any way interfered with HT's ability to leave me feeling wholly understood, accepted, validated, etc. During the first year and a half or so, most of my therapy centered around the trauma of my toxic therapy. HT had never experienced it. It's probably not technically 'correct' for a therapist to do this, but there were a few times that the toxic therapy experiences I recounted struck HT like a parent finding out their kid got beat up at school. HT's valiant efforts to be guarded and neutral could not stop a glance or other reaction that revealed HT genuinely felt incensed. Those were powerfully healing moments for me. Every now and again HT would let a comment slip that implied HT felt protective of me with respect to that trauma. I didn't need HT to have personally experienced this thing to provide me what I needed to heal from it. So don't need your therapist to have felt the emptiness you describe.
> On more thing is that I have been concerned that I am too attached to my therapist. I have heard that a strong therapeutic attachment and attunement is the source for true healing and transformation in therapy. But I have been told that over-attachment can stop therapy from progressing-- it can even make someone not want to get better because then they would have to leave this safe womb, the arms of the compassionate God.
>
> What do you think?I think you should talk to him about the worries you have about it. Just like you said above. You're talking about two things there. Attachment - even strong attachment - is a good thing. It's over-dependence that can create the problems you described. A good therapist will know how to manage signs of over-dependence. Some dependence is usually necessary. I fought tooth and nail to NOT feel dependent. I'm so dependent-avoidant that my therapist did things that actually encouraged dependence. I wasn't in danger of becoming over-dependent. I was in danger of being unable to allow myself to feel the kind of healthy dependence that healthy relationships include. Talk to him about your worries.
> My only thought is that while over-attachment and extreme idealization (even enmeshment) bring with them distressing emotions while in the process of therapy and may at times foster a resistence to becoming independent and better, they still present a very powerful and real situation to work through. For me, therapy is the meta-situation of my life. If I can get through all of this and not feel the distressing attachment, I am entering a place where I am more healed. Until things are not-ok, I will feel this ache; hopefully, as I can share with another person, I will become more whole and healed and will not be so desperate for this therapeutic relationship. There will be better relationships with others and myself in life so I won't need therapy anymore. that would be the goal.You've got good instincts about it, and good insight into yourself. For the first three years of my healing therapy, my therapeutic relationship was front & center in my life. My work has been about allowing myself to feel and sustain a safe and secure attachment. From the beginning HT relentlessly attempted to get me to branch out - but my attachment avoidance made it too hard. I couldn't carry my avoidance and the fears generated by early attachment instability into relationships. It was not until after I (fairly recently) achieved that place that I was able to start putting more legs under my stool (as Dinah says :-) I know my therapeutic relationship will eventually end... and I have reached a place now where I can imagine being able to create and sustain healthy attachments based onthe template created with my therapist. That is indeed the goal.
Solstice
Posted by pegasus on November 11, 2010, at 11:54:17
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination » Annabelle Smith, posted by Solstice on November 11, 2010, at 1:24:59
Solstice wrote: "You're talking about two things there. Attachment - even strong attachment - is a good thing. It's over-dependence that can create the problems you described. A good therapist will know how to manage signs of over-dependence. Some dependence is usually necessary."
This is intriguing to me. When I felt uncomfortably dependent on my past T, I eventually came to understand the strength of that as being due to attachment, which is a biological imperative. So, that helped me to understand the really intense energy around that relationship. But here you are suggesting (and Daisy mentioned it earlier in another thread) that attachment does not equal dependence.
So, what do you understand is the difference, exactly? Is the dependency a symptom of insecure attachment (ambivalent/preoccupied type, I guess). If one is overdependent, how can that be resolved?
This seems to me to be the BIG ISSUE around termination, at least in my own mind.
-P
Posted by Annabelle Smith on November 11, 2010, at 21:35:59
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination » Annabelle Smith, posted by emmanuel98 on November 11, 2010, at 1:00:10
Emmanuel, yes, sorry that it is a little unclear and confusing. I began therapy for my first time last February and was working with a therapist in a Center at my university where students can go for free therapy/couseling. I saw worked with him from late Feb until early May and then was away during the summer. He had a private practice in town in addition to his hours at the Center. September of this year, he left the Center to work entirely at his private practice. He told me he was leaving last April and gave me the option of either continuing to work with him or to be transferred to another therapist in the Center. I don't know what I was thinking at that time-- I should have immediately went back to work with him in a heartbeat but for some reason was thinking that I should just stick to what was free. It has caused me much emotional turmoil and pain and I wish I had known a couple of months ago that getting the help I really need is worth whatever it takes.
I just terminated with the new therapist to whom I had been transferred. I realized how much I needed to be working with the therapist that I originally worked with last spring. The attachment never left and things started seeming like they weren't working out with the person that I was seeing at the center, as I have indicated on here. So now, I am going back to the way things originally were, 7 months ago.
Posted by Annabelle Smith on November 11, 2010, at 21:45:15
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination » Annabelle Smith, posted by Solstice on November 11, 2010, at 1:24:59
Thank you so much, Solstice for your response. I always appreciate what you have to say. You have really been to that place and know what it is like.
>> You wrote: "From the beginning, when my HT wants to call my attention to something, it's always prefaced with something like "I'm wondering if..." or "Maybe you are..." and then closed with "what do you think?" The beauty of that is that if I think HT has missed the mark, I can say "Well, I think it's more that I...", etc."
Yes. That is a compassionate and inviting way in which to interact. The therapist with whom I am reinitiating also talks and interacts in a similar way. It just hurt me so much to feel blamed and "pegged" down again. The most painful thing about the last therapeutic relationship was that a gaping rift had opened between us that he didn't know about but that was all I could see.
I need to talk to my therapist about dependence and attachment. My fear in doing so is that he will withdraw-- not physically, as I can't imagine he would actually tell me to leave and not come back, but in what is for me the worst way, emotionally. I am afraid that he will become emotionally detached and unavailable-- that I will have to go into the session and search for him and maybe not even find him; that the gaping chasm will re-emerge between us. But I think it is worth the risk to be open and honest. I stand paralyzed at a crossroads; if I never move then things are never going to change.
Posted by Solstice on November 11, 2010, at 22:07:54
In reply to Dependence versus attachment, posted by pegasus on November 11, 2010, at 11:54:17
Hey Peg..
> Solstice wrote: "You're talking about two things there. Attachment - even strong attachment - is a good thing. It's over-dependence that can create the problems you described. A good therapist will know how to manage signs of over-dependence. Some dependence is usually necessary."
>
> This is intriguing to me. When I felt uncomfortably dependent on my past T, I eventually came to understand the strength of that as being due to attachment, which is a biological imperative. So, that helped me to understand the really intense energy around that relationship. But here you are suggesting (and Daisy mentioned it earlier in another thread) that attachment does not equal dependence.I think they are different. Sometimes they accompany each other, sometimes they don't. Very simplistically, think of it this way: I was very, very attached to my babies. But I didn't rely on them for anything. I am dependent on my postman to keep me out of trouble with my bills - to pass bills to me and my payments to them. But I'm not at all attached to the postman.
> So, what do you understand is the difference, exactly? Is the dependency a symptom of insecure attachment (ambivalent/preoccupied type, I guess).It could be insecure attachment, or other things too. Dependence isn't bad - it's just that over-dependence can lead to a total preoccupation with the therapist to the point that it interferes with functioning. It can stop therapeutic progress. What's tricky is that dependence is part of the attachment process. Our therapists aren't supposed to depend on us for their relationship needs - but we are depending on them to provide us with healthy relationship experiences. I think the processes involved are different for every client. Folks with Borderline features may struggle more than others with over-dependence. The difference between healthy vs over-dependence,in my mind, is when the obsession, preoccupation, longing, is so intrusive and unrelenting that it interferes with functioning and therapeutic progress grinds to a halt. That said, I think all of us with attachment issues in therapy are going to struggle with the feelings involved. It's going to be uncomfortable.. REAL uncomfortable... even painful. Whether it's because we have an unfulfilled fantasy that our 'perfect' therapist will become our lifelong mate/friend, or because we are are fighting tooth and nail to avoid the 'danger' of feeling attached to our therapist. Either way, we have to work through it, and in working through it we will have phases where we FEEL threatened by the strong feelings of attachment. Maybe because (like for me) even moderate levels of attachment feelings are so unfamiliar that they feel very intense... or maybe because we've had such a paucity of attachment experiences that once we get a taste, we want to gorge ourselves on it :-) Regardless, a good therapist should be able to be attuned to what's going on and figure out how to help us move through it. Anyone worried that their attachment or dependence is over-the-top should just bring it up in therapy and get feedback. I asked mine a lot of questions about this attachment thing T kept talking about that sounded so weird and icky to me. From what I hear you describing, my sense is that like most of us, you seem to experience strong attachment/dependence feelings of the sort that is part of the therapeutic process of finding the balance.
> If one is overdependent, how can that be resolved?I think overdependence is a feeling-state that drives excessively clingy-type behaviors. Maybe it helps to put it all out on the table in therapy so that it's not aggravated by shame. Good boundaries help. I think it might also help to talk to ourselves about the role of our therapist in our lives: "T is not my 'friend'.. will not be my boyfriend... this is a temporary relationship that I'm paying for, for a period of time...." things like that. I think it's especially helpful if we have other people as part of our support system - the legs on the stool Dinah talks about. That way we have other people to share our emotional life with (joys and pains), and our therapist is reserved for the more serious stuff - kinda spreads it around so all the eggs aren't in one basket. The truest resolution, of course, is when we have become healthy enough to not need to feel a desperate dependence on our therapist.
> This seems to me to be the BIG ISSUE around termination, at least in my own mind.I really like the way my therapist described it... knowing that I'm getting better when I call to cancel appointments because I don't have time for therapy :-) Like Dinah's, my therapist doesn't 'do' long-term therapy. Despite that, I don't have to 'go' until I'm ready. I can't imagine anything more ideal than that.
Solstice
Posted by Solstice on November 11, 2010, at 22:55:51
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Annabelle Smith on November 11, 2010, at 21:45:15
> Thank you so much, Solstice for your response.
My pleasure :-)
> It just hurt me so much to feel blamed and "pegged" down again.god knows how much suffering that kinda thing caused me. I'm so glad you had the good sense to extract yourself.
> The most painful thing about the last therapeutic relationship was that a gaping rift had opened between us that he didn't know about but that was all I could see.Yep yep yep. Only my toxic therapist knew about it, but it was my fault. He was absolutely certain that he played no role in the series of ruptures. Because I was so invested in that therapeutic relationship by that point and had just recently reached a scary place of immense vulnerability, when that relationship collapsed, the fragile internal scaffolding that I was trying to rebuild myself on collapsed as well. I've never been in so much pain in my life.
> I need to talk to my therapist about dependence and attachment. My fear in doing so is that he will withdraw-- not physically, as I can't imagine he would actually tell me to leave and not come back, but in what is for me the worst way, emotionally. I am afraid that he will become emotionally detached and unavailable-- that I will have to go into the session and search for him and maybe not even find him; that the gaping chasm will re-emerge between us.Or.. he could tell you that he will be your 'base'.. where you can safely attach while you figure things out. I remember my HT talk about wanting to see me 'tethered.' I'm looking forward to you talking about it with him and sharing his response with us.
> But I think it is worth the risk to be open and honest. I stand paralyzed at a crossroads; if I never move then things are never going to change.It's definitely worth the risk.. and you are right.
Solstice
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 12, 2010, at 0:08:53
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Annabelle Smith on November 11, 2010, at 21:45:15
A good therapist will understand this and be compassionate and willing to discuss it. They won't shun you or come on to you or get mad at you or shut down. Dependence and attachment are commonplace, even expected. So if he can't handle it compassionately, he shouldn't be working as a therapist.
> I need to talk to my therapist about dependence and attachment. My fear in doing so is that he will withdraw-- not physically, as I can't imagine he would actually tell me to leave and not come back, but in what is for me the worst way, emotionally. I am afraid that he will become emotionally detached and unavailable-- that I will have to go into the session and search for him and maybe not even find him; that the gaping chasm will re-emerge between us. But I think it is worth the risk to be open and honest. I stand paralyzed at a crossroads; if I never move then things are never going to change.
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 12, 2010, at 0:16:51
In reply to Re: Dependence versus attachment, posted by Solstice on November 11, 2010, at 22:07:54
I like your distinction between dependence and attachment. I was dependent on my T, even over-dependent. I had defined myself all my life as independent and not needing things from anyone, but once I started therapy, I felt that I would die if I couldn't see him every week. All he had to do was raise his eyebrows or look slightly impatient or annoyed and I would cry for days. Attachment was slower. I suffered severe neglect and abuse as a child and had avoident attachment with my parents. It took a while to feel safe enogh with him, to trust him enough, that I could feel securely attached. That took years.
Posted by Annabelle Smith on November 12, 2010, at 9:23:10
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by emmanuel98 on November 12, 2010, at 0:08:53
I just needed to come on here for a minute to say this. I go to my therapist today at 4pm. It is 9 in the morning now, and the moment I got up I felt so anxious. Last night I was fine and felt ready-- like I had all of these things to say to him and I could really say them. Now, my hands are already tingling and I can play the whole session in my head, see myself walk in and sit down, mutter and stutter, say nothing, not be present, watch myself, and leave-- and feel despair. I have already ruined the session and it hasn't even happened yet.
What should I do/think about in the intervening time before my session to be real and present when I get there? When I get there, I feel like I need a line or something to say to get it started-- but I have like 100 lines and things to say. When I go in there and sit on the couch, then what? Can you help?
Posted by Solstice on November 12, 2010, at 9:44:24
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Annabelle Smith on November 12, 2010, at 9:23:10
> I just needed to come on here for a minute to say this. I go to my therapist today at 4pm. It is 9 in the morning now, and the moment I got up I felt so anxious. Last night I was fine and felt ready-- like I had all of these things to say to him and I could really say them. Now, my hands are already tingling and I can play the whole session in my head, see myself walk in and sit down, mutter and stutter, say nothing, not be present, watch myself, and leave-- and feel despair. I have already ruined the session and it hasn't even happened yet.
You're anxious because you don't know with absolute certainty what kind of reaction you'll get. I've experienced that same anxiety quite a bit myself!
> What should I do/think about in the intervening time before my session to be real and present when I get there? When I get there, I feel like I need a line or something to say to get it started-- but I have like 100 lines and things to say. When I go in there and sit on the couch, then what? Can you help?
What helps me: i] think about who you know this therapist to be. Does he tend to have understanding and compassionate responses? He'll stick to his pattern; ii) What is the worst thing in the world he would likely say? Think about the worst thing you might hear. Imagine him really saying it! And then think about the fact that even if he said something that hurt you - it won't kill you. You might have to find another therapist, but you would survive it.
Why don't you take whatever you've written down in with you. Sit down, and say something like "I've been an anxious mess all day. I wrote all this stuff down because I'm just being flooded with things I need to talk about, and I don't know where to start." There. Now he knows the most important thing. You need him to help you get started. I'll bet he'll figure out a way to do that.
Take a deep breath Annabelle! You will get through this, and I'm betting that when you walk out, you may not have had time to get all the answers you need, but you will have gotten started and you will feel so much better.
Solstice
Posted by pegasus on November 12, 2010, at 11:02:16
In reply to Re: Dependence versus attachment, posted by Solstice on November 11, 2010, at 22:07:54
Thanks for trying to explain, Solstice. I'm still confused, but that's probably more about me than about what you wrote. It all seems so subjective, what's a problem, and what's healthy and necessary. The cure for over dependence sounds a lot like fostering a secure attachment.
I watch my daughter being so attached to me, and I have tried hard to help her feel secure in her attachment. I've read a lot about attachment, and practiced attachment parenting. And yet, there are certainly times when she seems very clingy - more so than other kids her age. I wonder if maybe I was like that as a kid. Maybe I just have a genetic tendency toward overdependence. My mom says she doesn't remember if I was clingy. Which maybe is evidence for why I might not have been securely attached to her (wasn't she paying attention?) So, now I'm back at the problem being attachment.
Also, while my daughter is dependent/attached to me, I'm dependent/attached to her as well. It's a different from me to her than it is from her to me, but it is mutual in some sense. I can't imagine how devastated I'd be if I lost her somehow. I'm filled with joy whenever I pick her up from school, and I think of her during the day when we're apart. There are two things that are different about this than the preoccupation I had with my ex-T, which gets labeled as overdependence. 1) This interdependence with my daughter feels good and healthy, while the dependence on my T always felt somehow wrong or too much (to me - he didn't seem to mind it), and 2) the thing with my ex-T was one sided. Perhaps 2) leads to 1).
Sorry to be trying to take this thread off on a rabbit trail about me and my issues. Maybe I should have started a separate thread.
Annabelle, I agree with what Solstice says about how to deal with this day and the upcoming session. It sounds like you've gotten into a state where you cannot identify one or two things that seem most important. So, the best you can do, I agree, is lay out the problem to your T, and ask for his help getting started. It sounds like you'll have future sessions that you can use to get to the parts that you don't have time for today. Good luck. I'll be thinking about you.
- P
Posted by Solstice on November 12, 2010, at 11:29:40
In reply to Re: Dependence versus attachment, posted by emmanuel98 on November 12, 2010, at 0:16:51
> I like your distinction between dependence and attachment. I was dependent on my T, even over-dependent. I had defined myself all my life as independent and not needing things from anyone, but once I started therapy, I felt that I would die if I couldn't see him every week.
I love this Emmanuel! I don't know that it's helpful to worry about whether the dependence we feel at any given time is 'good' or 'bad.' I may be lucky in that because of my attachment-avoidance, my therapist seemed to encourage whatever amount of dependence I could tolerate. I never worried whether it was 'bad,' because my therapist was so relieved to see it. But I know what you mean about seeing yourself as very independent, self-reliant, "I don't need to depend on ANYone, thank-you-very-much." When I was moving through that scary place of allowing myself to attach and depend on my therapist, I also thought I might not survive if T was unavailable. That's kind of what gave birth to the thing we worked out where I could text whenever I wanted, so long as I didn't expect a response. (Sometimes I got/get them, but I don't expect to get one). I definitely went through a period of time where I felt utterly dependent on my therapist to keep my sense of well-being stabilized. I think it's part of the process, and it wouldn't be fair to characterize it as 'over' (as in 'bad') dependence. When it's part of the process of getting to a healthy place, it might be better characterized as 'necessary dependence' or 'prescribed dependence.' The only way for wounded people to find out that healthy relationships where their needs can be met exist, is to experience it. The only way to experience it, is to depend on someone who is reliably attuned to you. Maybe what distinguishes someone experiencing 'necessary dependence' from some one experiencing an unhealthy 'over' dependence is this: if you're worried about it, it's probably 'necessary dependence.' The worry might refelct an inner goal to reach a more healthy autonomy. Maybe people with unhealthy 'over' dependence don't worry about the dependence, they just worry about how to get their therapist to accept their dependence on a permanent basis. Maybe there is a touch of entitlement involved - indicating an inner goal of not taking responsibility for their own lives - of not wanting to be autonomous. Think?
>All he had to do was raise his eyebrows or look slightly impatient or annoyed and I would cry for days.
Of course you would! :-) ...and that's probably because of your childhood experience with parental attachment. your reaction speaks to your being acutely on the lookout for another neglectful or abusive experience with a caretaker. It takes repetative experiences of reliable therapeutic attunement to our needs over an extended period of time for those kinds of sensitivities to subside. You have necessarily depended on him to provide those healing experiences.
Solstice
Posted by Solstice on November 12, 2010, at 12:10:49
In reply to Re: Dependence versus attachment » Solstice, posted by pegasus on November 12, 2010, at 11:02:16
> Thanks for trying to explain, Solstice. I'm still confused, but that's probably more about me than about what you wrote.
or... maybe it's because my explanation just did't hit the mark :-)
> It all seems so subjective, what's a problem, and what's healthy and necessary. The cure for over dependence sounds a lot like fostering a secure attachment.It IS very subjective. We can talk about and share our own experiences and impressions of our attachment/dependence processes, and we all benefit from understanding things through the eyes of others. But anybody who is worried about attachment/dependence issues with their therapist really needs to bring it up in therapy.
> I watch my daughter being so attached to me, and I have tried hard to help her feel secure in her attachment. I've read a lot about attachment, and practiced attachment parenting. And yet, there are certainly times when she seems very clingy - more so than other kids her age.You are her source.. her 'base.' You said "at times".. sounds like it ebbs and flows. You don't say her age, but she is growing and learning constantly - her experiences with life are always expanding. When she's uncertain - you are who she's going to cling to. And you don't know about the clinginess of the other kids. They probably get clinger than she is at times too - just you're not there to see it.
> I wonder if maybe I was like that as a kid. Maybe I just have a genetic tendency toward overdependence.I think I wish you didn't worry yourself so much about childhood dependence or therapeutic dependence and whether it's 'over' (or bad) dependence. You have enough worry, that I'd wager that when you don't need to be dependent to heal - you won't be. I also wonder if in having a heightened worry about it, maybe it unknowingly leaks out - and to your daughter it might feel like she needs to worry whether you'll 'be' there when she needs her base... which might make her react with clingy behavior. One of the really therapeutic things my therapist did when I 'tested' our relationship's reliability, is T would say things like "Solstice.. I'm not going anywhere. I will be here when you need me, for as long as you need me." It didn't occur to me to ask "Will you be there for me?" But in my behaviors, my 'testing,' and the other random frettings I would have, it's like suddenly and unexpectedly hearing my therapist make a declaration of commitment was just exactly what I needed. I was allowed to depend as much as I could tolerate - it was never turned away. Eventually, I incorporated and carried an 'image' of my ever-present therapist with me in my mind and heart. That led to the feeling of security. It's like having a candy jar available all the time. When it's first put out you might go overboard, but after a while, you know it's there and you don't 'need' to run to it so much. You're satisfied.
> Also, while my daughter is dependent/attached to me, I'm dependent/attached to her as well. It's a different from me to her than it is from her to me, but it is mutual in some sense. I can't imagine how devastated I'd be if I lost her somehow.You're not talking about dependence here. You're talking about the mysteries of mother-love... that deep, inexplicable bond that can take place between mother and child. I've experienced it with mine. It's intoxicating - invigorating. At it's best - it is designed to ensure we take care of those litte things, look out for their best interests, protect them, and ensure they can survive on their own eventually. On her part, it's designed to ensure her survival. Enjoy every single second of it! It is healthy and beautiful - it is one of the most exquisite things life can offer. There is not anything about what you're describing that is even on the same planet as 'over' dependence on a therapist.
>I'm filled with joy whenever I pick her up from school, and I think of her during the day when we're apart. There are two things that are different about this than the preoccupation I had with my ex-T, which gets labeled as overdependence. 1) This interdependence with my daughter feels good and healthy, while the dependence on my T always felt somehow wrong or too much (to me - he didn't seem to mind it), and 2) the thing with my ex-T was one sided. Perhaps 2) leads to 1).Was your dependence on your T trulty 'over' dependence? I'd question the validity of 'over' applying in this case. Or is it simply the dependency necessary to make the journey to healthy attachment.. which can feel pretty uncomfortable (wrong or too much) because it requires us to be vulnerable in our need for attachment to them.
> Sorry to be trying to take this thread off on a rabbit trail about me and my issues. Maybe I should have started a separate thread.Well.. it's all about attachment and dependence..
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 12, 2010, at 19:36:02
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Annabelle Smith on November 12, 2010, at 9:23:10
I went through a long period where I just didn't know how to start. I would ask, how are you and he would say, I'm good. How are you feeling? Okay. Then I'd fall silent. He became very directive, asking me questions, trying to get me going. Once I got going, I was fine. Maybe you could ask him to be more directive and help you get started, since you get so flooded and anxious, you don't know what to say.
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 12, 2010, at 19:42:57
In reply to Re: Dependence versus attachment, posted by Solstice on November 12, 2010, at 11:29:40
For the first year or so of therapy, I literally thought about my T all the time, all the time. He was always in my mind. When I was working (I worked alone a lot, at home, writing) I imagined him in the room next to me. When I drove, I imagined him in the passenger seat. I imagined him approving of me. If I put on a shirt, I would imagine him saying, that's good, a good choice. If I listened to a piece of music, I would imagine him listening to and being proud of me for picking that piece out. I dreamed about him every night, usually bad dreams about him getting angry or hurting me. It was so intense, I sometimes wonder how I survived it.
Posted by Solstice on November 12, 2010, at 19:55:02
In reply to Re: Dependence versus attachment » Solstice, posted by emmanuel98 on November 12, 2010, at 19:42:57
> For the first year or so of therapy, I literally thought about my T all the time, all the time. He was always in my mind. When I was working (I worked alone a lot, at home, writing) I imagined him in the room next to me. When I drove, I imagined him in the passenger seat. I imagined him approving of me. If I put on a shirt, I would imagine him saying, that's good, a good choice. If I listened to a piece of music, I would imagine him listening to and being proud of me for picking that piece out. I dreamed about him every night, usually bad dreams about him getting angry or hurting me. It was so intense, I sometimes wonder how I survived it.
Sounds like between sessions, your therapist and the therapy itself was going with you. From what I understand, that's often part of the healing process. I wonder if in the bad dreams, your underlying fears of the therapeutic relationship repeating childhood neglect, abuse, rejection were playing themselves out. What do you think?
Solstice
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 12, 2010, at 21:17:18
In reply to Re: Dependence versus attachment » emmanuel98, posted by Solstice on November 12, 2010, at 19:55:02
I'm sure that's it. During the day he was the good parent I never had and in my dreams, he became the bad parent I feared. Although I went through a period with him where I feared him during the day as well. I actually had this psychotic depression where I had hallucinations of him telling me to die. I would sit in sessions and be terified that he was going to hurt me. Like I say, I don't know how I survived it. I don't know how he survived it.
> Sounds like between sessions, your therapist and the therapy itself was going with you. From what I understand, that's often part of the healing process. I wonder if in the bad dreams, your underlying fears of the therapeutic relationship repeating childhood neglect, abuse, rejection were playing themselves out. What do you think?
>
> Solstice
Posted by Annabelle Smith on November 12, 2010, at 22:55:47
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Solstice on November 12, 2010, at 9:44:24
I just wanted to post a follow-up to let you guys know how things went today. Solstice, thank you so much for your reponse to my post this morning. That really helped me get through the day.
I came in chaotic and stayed chaotic nearly the entire time-- what happens is that my hands go numb, I feel light-headed, it is hard to speak, and I basically feel a sense of panic and embarrassment. So, it makes it hard to be fully present and that leads further to the feeling of chaos and unreality. I think the session "was." My therapist and I tried to talk about leaving it as it was and accepting it-- both of us knowing that things felt to be unsaid and unexpressed will haunt me when I leave but that we both know that.
I just get so angry with myself that I can't say what I need to say when I am there with him. Because of the anxiety I mentioned, when I try, I usually rush through it and can't really focus on anything of any importance, so it feels as if nothing was said. Often I leave a session and can't remember what happened-- it's a fog.
I have heard from a pretty reliable source/person that this chaotic/obsessional phase of therapy is not even the most difficult and painful part. She said that yes, this is very very difficult and actually, I know that a lot of suicides occur in the first few weeks/months of therapy, but she said that until you get into the really painful stuff from your past and allow yourself to relive it and re-feel it in therapy, then you can't get better. Is this true? I haven't even been anywhere near that phase yet.
3 people (my above mentioned friend, the therapist with whom I just terminated, and a psychotherapist that I corresponded with via email this summer) all told me that they thought my attachment to my mother (or my mother's clinging approach to me) was really at the core of a lot of the intense anxiety I feel. Around the age of 9 (I think) I used to have intense fears that my mom was going to die. I developed a whole line of rituals that I would to to keep this from happening. I know now that is probably OCD - type behavior. But I would have to tap things and eat even numbers of chips and turn the water off and on, etc. and each time, I had to end on an even number, so it is like it never ended. I began to be driven so crazy by it and yet was so embarrassed by it that I came to the conclusion (in my child mind) that I had a demon and tried many times to follow the example of the disciples in the gospels and exorcise it from myself. That only worked for about an hour. And then, of course, it was back. These people tell me that my feelings of the void ahead of me and of annihilation are coming from an enmeshment with my mom.
I am supposed to graduate from college in May. I come from a really small town where most people never leave. My travelling across the state to a big and diverse city and to the university I am attending now was a huge deal. I felt liberated, like I had a new chance to create myself. Now that is almost over, and I feel like I absolutely cannot function as an adult. A lot of people will just look at me and tell me to get into the real world, to grow up and exit my fantasy. But I can't. It's not that I don't want to work. I am a hard worker; it's that I feel like I will cease to exist when I leave my university and everything that is safe here-- including and now, especially my therapist. I am so afraid of going back home. My brother is 24 years old and still lives at home-- my mom still cooks him dinner and washes his clothes and is upset when he is out all night. I would die there. I think literally.
I really don't know how to function on my own. I have been trying to apply to graduate schools and go straight into that, but my wise friend (who is in the divinity program at my university-- the same program I want to do) told me that it would be best to make sure I am taking care of myself and figuring things out on that front before launching into Divinity school.
If I left my city at graduation, I would only have 5 months left with my therapist. I feel like I will die without him. I wonder if it is worth staying here longer-- even postponing grad school-- to work with him and figure these things out. Or am I just too much in the obsessive phase and not seeing things clearly. Maybe he won't and can't be my messiah. But I need someone to be.
I am so scared. Tonight, all of this pushed me towards feeling really suicidal again. I don't have a gun here, but I know my dad does at home. I keep telling myself that I need to just hang in and that maybe things will get better. That could be a load-- I don't know that they will get better. What I feel is despair. I know that there is so much life to live-- I have made out a list of all of the things that I want to do: like learn new languages and travel and write a book and fall in love one day and take a big risk. But it is so hard. I don't know if I can do it, if I can make it.
Thanks for letting me talk here.
Posted by Dinah on November 13, 2010, at 9:28:06
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Annabelle Smith on November 12, 2010, at 22:55:47
That sounds like OCD. I think perhaps therapy can tap that OCD core too.
I'm sure you've learned from your OCD experiences that fears aren't reality. You don't need to worry about the great unknown at the moment. Can you focus your attention to a shorter period of time? Universities do have resources for students to help them smooth their way into the real world. You will have help transitioning from the safety of the college universe to the wider world. Every step along the way prepares you for the next.
Your friend is probably right about getting into a better place yourself before going to divinity school to prepare for a life of being a support to others. Can your relationship with God help you in these times? It's hard to trust to a loving God that he will support you as you help yourself. But it might be good practice to learn to do that, so that you will be able to teach others.
Do you meditate? I have never been very good at it myself, but I understand it helps others a lot.
Posted by Solstice on November 13, 2010, at 12:42:02
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Annabelle Smith on November 12, 2010, at 22:55:47
Annabelle -I think the anxiety you experience is interfering a lot. I've had periods of intense anxiety as well. A chronically over-stimulated nervous system can make it hard to even really participate in therapy. If you don't take medication to treat the anxiety and/or OCD, you may want to consult with a psychiatrist and give it serious consideration.
Solstice
> I just wanted to post a follow-up to let you guys know how things went today. Solstice, thank you so much for your reponse to my post this morning. That really helped me get through the day.
>
> I came in chaotic and stayed chaotic nearly the entire time-- what happens is that my hands go numb, I feel light-headed, it is hard to speak, and I basically feel a sense of panic and embarrassment. So, it makes it hard to be fully present and that leads further to the feeling of chaos and unreality. I think the session "was." My therapist and I tried to talk about leaving it as it was and accepting it-- both of us knowing that things felt to be unsaid and unexpressed will haunt me when I leave but that we both know that.
>
> I just get so angry with myself that I can't say what I need to say when I am there with him. Because of the anxiety I mentioned, when I try, I usually rush through it and can't really focus on anything of any importance, so it feels as if nothing was said. Often I leave a session and can't remember what happened-- it's a fog.
>
> I have heard from a pretty reliable source/person that this chaotic/obsessional phase of therapy is not even the most difficult and painful part. She said that yes, this is very very difficult and actually, I know that a lot of suicides occur in the first few weeks/months of therapy, but she said that until you get into the really painful stuff from your past and allow yourself to relive it and re-feel it in therapy, then you can't get better. Is this true? I haven't even been anywhere near that phase yet.
>
> 3 people (my above mentioned friend, the therapist with whom I just terminated, and a psychotherapist that I corresponded with via email this summer) all told me that they thought my attachment to my mother (or my mother's clinging approach to me) was really at the core of a lot of the intense anxiety I feel. Around the age of 9 (I think) I used to have intense fears that my mom was going to die. I developed a whole line of rituals that I would to to keep this from happening. I know now that is probably OCD - type behavior. But I would have to tap things and eat even numbers of chips and turn the water off and on, etc. and each time, I had to end on an even number, so it is like it never ended. I began to be driven so crazy by it and yet was so embarrassed by it that I came to the conclusion (in my child mind) that I had a demon and tried many times to follow the example of the disciples in the gospels and exorcise it from myself. That only worked for about an hour. And then, of course, it was back. These people tell me that my feelings of the void ahead of me and of annihilation are coming from an enmeshment with my mom.
>
> I am supposed to graduate from college in May. I come from a really small town where most people never leave. My travelling across the state to a big and diverse city and to the university I am attending now was a huge deal. I felt liberated, like I had a new chance to create myself. Now that is almost over, and I feel like I absolutely cannot function as an adult. A lot of people will just look at me and tell me to get into the real world, to grow up and exit my fantasy. But I can't. It's not that I don't want to work. I am a hard worker; it's that I feel like I will cease to exist when I leave my university and everything that is safe here-- including and now, especially my therapist. I am so afraid of going back home. My brother is 24 years old and still lives at home-- my mom still cooks him dinner and washes his clothes and is upset when he is out all night. I would die there. I think literally.
>
> I really don't know how to function on my own. I have been trying to apply to graduate schools and go straight into that, but my wise friend (who is in the divinity program at my university-- the same program I want to do) told me that it would be best to make sure I am taking care of myself and figuring things out on that front before launching into Divinity school.
>
> If I left my city at graduation, I would only have 5 months left with my therapist. I feel like I will die without him. I wonder if it is worth staying here longer-- even postponing grad school-- to work with him and figure these things out. Or am I just too much in the obsessive phase and not seeing things clearly. Maybe he won't and can't be my messiah. But I need someone to be.
>
> I am so scared. Tonight, all of this pushed me towards feeling really suicidal again. I don't have a gun here, but I know my dad does at home. I keep telling myself that I need to just hang in and that maybe things will get better. That could be a load-- I don't know that they will get better. What I feel is despair. I know that there is so much life to live-- I have made out a list of all of the things that I want to do: like learn new languages and travel and write a book and fall in love one day and take a big risk. But it is so hard. I don't know if I can do it, if I can make it.
>
> Thanks for letting me talk here.
>
>
Posted by Dinah on November 13, 2010, at 12:54:20
In reply to Re: Therapy and termination, posted by Solstice on November 13, 2010, at 12:42:02
>
> Annabelle -
>
> I think the anxiety you experience is interfering a lot. I've had periods of intense anxiety as well. A chronically over-stimulated nervous system can make it hard to even really participate in therapy. If you don't take medication to treat the anxiety and/or OCD, you may want to consult with a psychiatrist and give it serious consideration.
>
> SolsticeThat *is* a good idea. I know I wouldn't have been able to get a great deal of use from therapy at times, had it not been for medication.
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